May 11 Guild Wars 2 Skills and Balance Update Preview

[cryorion.9532]

16 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No it's not one less reason ... it's one MORE. Giving Warriors FH baseline IS the reason that would make Discipline more attractive to any warrior build than it is now. 

 

1. In the case of current warrior builds using Discipline, obviously that traitline isn't being chosen ONLY because of FH, the synergies are too good and no one will have a problem welcoming a new trait in the place of FH spot either.

2. In the case of current warrior builds not using Discipline, having many traits that have synergy with FH IS going to make it more attractive as a choice. 

 

We aren't going to play this game ... there isn't any case where Fh baseline makes Discipline less attractive. That's just some rhetoric people say to justify an unreasonable idea to themselves. 

Geez, this is such truth bending to make it suit your argument, it's insane. Nothing would change for Discipline builds, you have been told this multiple times ("no one will have a problem welcoming a new trait in the place of FH spot either", you have been told that there doesn't need to be a new trait, too).

 

This just means that people who previously used Discipline traitline for FH AND other bonuses will keep using it and people who want to play without Discipline will play without Discipline (while retaining 5 sec weapon swap). I think you just pointlessly convolute this discussion. If you want improved FH, then just use Discipline, if you want traits from other traitline instead of Discipline, then the trade off is that you dont have weapon swapping bonuses, just 5 second weapon swap as baseline.

You can pick either improved weapon swapping WITH ALSO other Discipline bonuses (that are not related to weapon swap),

or traits from other traitlines that are more beneficial for whatever build you are making (aka improving non-Discipline build), at the cost of having no bonuses on weapon swap. How is this going to encourage people to stop using the other traitline that is important for their build and pick Discipline just for the weapon swap improved bonuses?

[Obtena.7952]

14 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Geez, this is such truth bending to make it suit your argument, it's insane. Nothing would change for Discipline builds, you have been told this multiple times ("no one will have a problem welcoming a new trait in the place of FH spot either", you have been told that there doesn't need to be a new trait, too).

 

This just means that people who previously used Discipline traitline for FH AND other bonuses will keep using it and people who want to play without Discipline will play without Discipline (while retaining 5 sec weapon swap). I think you just pointlessly convolute this discussion. If you want improved FH, then just use Discipline, if you want traits from other traitline instead of Discipline, then the trade off is that you dont have weapon swapping bonuses, just 5 second weapon swap as baseline.

You can pick either improved weapon swapping WITH ALSO other Discipline bonuses (that are not related to weapon swap),

or traits from other traitlines that are more beneficial for whatever build you are making (aka improving non-Discipline build), at the cost of having no bonuses on weapon swap. How is this going to encourage people to stop using the other traitline that is important for their build and pick Discipline just for the weapon swap improved bonuses?

 

There is no truth being bent. The point of the discussion here is that Discipline will not be less desirable of a traitline if FH is baseline. Nothing in your post even disputes that fact, so I don't know why you are replying to me. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Durzlla.6295]

I think Mantras would be more fun if instead of making them work like every other skill with charges, you make it so that you regain all charges after a duration, that way it kinda keeps with the "charging up" theme without making you hard cast them. 

[cryorion.9532]

  

54 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

There is no truth being bent. Discipline will not be less desirable of a traitline if FH is baseline. Nothing in your post even disputes that fact, so I don't know why you are replying to me. 

You keep saying that FH baseline would encourage people even more to pick Discipline over other traitlines just for the weapon swap bonuses. And we don't want Discipline to be less desirable, we want other traitlines to be more desirable, by giving them faster weapon swap. Why would you swap from one of traitlines that defines your build just to get traits that improve FH? You "just" get 5 second weapon swap, while not being forced to use Discipline for that. You can have more important traits that are needed for your build while not having to spec into Discipline. Is that a problem? How does that encourages you to go Discipline anyway, when the main reason you speced out from Discipline is to get different traits? It is the other way around, we are more "forced" (or encouraged) into Discipline now because it has just huge impact on the build we play due to faster weapon swap AND weapon swap bonuses at the same time. Which is fine, but not for non-Discipline builds. That is why and how FH baseline would remove certain limitations of non-Discipline builds.

Edited May 1, 2021 by cryorion.9532

[JSmooth.7654]

11 hours ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

You might mistaken? Axe Mastery grants Ferocity which grants Crit DMG not Crit Chance.

Precision grants Crit Chance and yeah warrior definitely need extra flat crit chance.

Yes,

I read that wrong and fixed my original post. My mistake.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, cryorion.9532 said:

  

You keep saying that FH baseline would encourage people even more to pick Discipline over other traitlines just for the weapon swap bonuses. And we don't want Discipline to be less desirable, we want other traitlines to be more desirable, by giving them faster weapon swap. Why would you swap from one of traitlines that defines your build just to get traits that improve FH? You "just" get 5 second weapon swap, while not being forced to use Discipline for that. You can have more important traits that are needed for your build while not having to spec into Discipline. Is that a problem? How does that encourages you to go Discipline anyway, when the main reason you speced out from Discipline is to get different traits? It is the other way around, we are more "forced" (or encouraged) into Discipline now because it has just huge impact on the build we play due to faster weapon swap AND weapon swap bonuses at the same time. Which is fine, but not for non-Discipline builds. That is why and how FH baseline would remove certain limitations of non-Discipline builds.

Again ... my point is that making FH baseline would not make Discipline less desirable. THAT was the claim someone made and it's wrong. I've explained why. Nothing you are saying here disputes that fact. 

 

I'm not questioning why and how FH baseline would remove limitations of non-Discipline builds ... it's not relevant because removing limitations isn't a reason to make FH baseline. The whole point of choosing traits and traitlines IS to be limited by them in the first place .. so having limitations removed is actually a reason NOT to make FH baseline. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Nimon.7840]

theres so much to read, so i dont know if someone already brought that up:

 

what about skills, that give certain boons, with longer duration than the new cap?

for example: necro spectral walk. 24 seconds of swiftness
with 29% boonduration you already reach 31 seconds of swiftness. so every other point of concentration will be wasted on skills like this. 

 

another example: guards retreat: 20 seconds of aegis and 20 seconds of swiftness

will now cap at 50% boonduration. 

 

dont know if theres other skills like this.

 

another point:

how will dark aura work together with resolution?

 

third point:

light aura will now give resolution right? how do they work together? additive?

Edited May 1, 2021 by Nimon.7840

[Asum.4960]

23 minutes ago, Nimon.7840 said:

theres so much to read, so i dont know if someone already brought that up:

 

what about skills, that give certain boons, with longer duration than the new cap?

for example: necro spectral walk. 24 seconds of swiftness
with 29% boonduration you already reach 31 seconds of swiftness. so every other point of concentration will be wasted on skills like this. 

 

another example: guards retreat: 20 seconds of aegis and 20 seconds of swiftness

will now cap at 50% boonduration. 

 

dont know if theres other skills like this.

Same with Conditions. A single traited Scepter 2 on Necro will give longer Cripple duration, with 0% condition Duration, than the max amount you can stack post patch. 

 

Many skills will singlehandedly hit these Caps with 100% Condition duration especially. Seems like there will be a lot of redundancy  post patch. 

 

I'm also not sure about for example Swiftness and Protection, or Cripple and Immobilize, hard capping at the same durations, considering the vastly different power levels of these effects - with them often being balanced around different applications (long but low impact/short but powerful).

 

While I appreciate the uniformity and clarity, maybe they should have still been at least split into High Impact Boons and Conditions (Quickness, Protection, Immobilize, Chilled etc.) and High Duration Boons and Conditions (Swiftness, Fury, Cripple, Blinded etc.), with a 30/60 split for Boons, and a 10/20 Split for Conditions.

 

Otherwise, some tradeoff on Skills which current Utility are especially long durations could be nice, while keeping the clarity of uniform caps.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

27 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Same with Conditions. A single traited Scepter 2 on Necro will give longer Cripple duration, with 0% condition Duration, than the max amount you can stack post patch. 

 

Many skills will singlehandedly hit these Caps with 100% Condition duration especially. Seems like there will be a lot of redundancy  post patch. 

 

I'm also not sure about for example Swiftness and Protection, or Cripple and Immobilize, hard capping at the same durations, considering the vastly different power levels of these effects - with them often being balanced around different applications (long but low impact/short but powerful).

 

While I appreciate the uniformity and clarity, maybe they should have still been at least split into High Impact Boons and Conditions and High Duration Boons and Conditions.

 

Sure. Cap Protection at 1s and immobilize at 1s since they are so high impact...

The other way to think about this though is that for certain builds you'll now need LESS concentration or expertise to hit the boon/condi duration caps, so you'll be able to add other stats to your build.

This also means that condition duration reduction equipment, traits, and utilities will give you some very short duration conditions to the point where you might as well not even bother using a condition cleanse.

[Jski.6180]

6 hours ago, Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

The problem is this all started when they stopped talking on the board or reddit around 2018 . The patches got increasingly worse when most of the senior staff left  at the end of 2019 . I think there were some informal talk to some guilds but the problem with those is they can only give your their biased POV on the game mode they play with their 'meta'.

 

Because of this people suggested long ago public test server so you can filter what is nonsense on the board replays to the things they test.  Yes that they also post them 2 weeks earlier before lunch does a smiler thing but from experience most of it is already set in stone at this point.

 

What really confuse me is their lack of knowledge about the state of the meta on different classes and the state of the meta in the game in general

This is why you have to effectively spam in game chats with the balancing problems of the game its such a bad system we have now with these forms (not the forms set up but the lack of any thing getting though to the devs.)

 

I know for a fact at least one dev (dose not work on balancing sadly) knows of my views of ele and knows of a lot of the problems with wvw balancing. But even the devs who do play the game see to not to be able to communicate to the balance devs. So they ARE in a massive bubble in what seems to be all parts of there life.

 

Maybe gw2 community needs to do an intervention with these devs and there life chose if they are just that discontented from the words reality?

[cryorion.9532]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again ... my point is that making FH baseline would not make Discipline less desirable. THAT was the claim someone made and it's wrong. I've explained why. Nothing you are saying here disputes that fact. 

 

I'm not questioning why and how FH baseline would remove limitations of non-Discipline builds ... it's not relevant because removing limitations isn't a reason to make FH baseline. The whole point of choosing traits and traitlines IS to be limited by them in the first place .. so having limitations removed is actually a reason NOT to make FH baseline. 

Removing limitations in this context is buffing non-discipline builds by allowing them fast weapon swap. If you want to enhance the weapon swap, you can just use Discipline, like now. But other builds will get the improvement that lessens the need to use Discipline that heavily affects the weapon skill availability and how complex rotations you can do with 2 weapon sets. I see a lot of new possibilities for all sorts of builds that are not g i m p e d by long weapon swap CD and being forced to autoattack for 5+ seconds just to wait for weapon swap cd. You still lose quite useful and important traits from Discipline, like condi removal on weapon swap, or axe grandamaster that is required for Decapitate spam on power Berserker in PvE. But if those Discipline traits are less important to your build than traits in other traitlines that you want to swap to, having FH baseline is good way to improve non-Discipline builds. I don't know how else or better can I explain to you, why or how is making FH going to improve builds that don't use Discipline traitline...

Edited May 1, 2021 by cryorion.9532

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Removing limitations in this context is buffing non-discipline builds by allowing them fast weapon swap.

OK ... and that doesn't change the fact that limitations created by making players choose traits is  INTENTIONAL design. If anything, the intended design of having to choose traits it's a reason NOT to make FH baseline.

 

Also, removing limitations and settling on FH baseline to do that is a completely contrived conclusion. There is nothing that indicates that generally, warriors need a buff the class and the way it should be done is to make FH as baseline.

 

Quote

 I don't know how else or better can I explain to you, why or how is making FH going to improve builds that don't use Discipline traitline...

 

I don't even know why you bother because how much FH improves non-Discipline builds has nothing to do with whether it should be baseline or not. 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pain_Inverter

Pain Inverter

Has now become the best def skill an ele could run in fact a lot of classes best def skill is this. The level that anet has messed up with this balance pach is beyond words. Every class that relide on condi dmg on any level to do dmg now dose less dmg vs gurd ranger mez rev and eng all other class must be an azren races. Let that set in you NEED to be a races to have viable def vs condis if your not the right class.

 

The even suggestion this is what anet has come up with after 1 year and 4 months of time for an update is sicking.

[Pax.3548]

Mmm judging the damage type changes it worries me to see Anet inclines more and more on condi dmg instead of balancing both to an equilibrium, I don't like to feel like I'm hitting a punching bag just to wait for it to accumulate as much condi as possible for it to die

[SkyCake.4216]

Rework the Inventions line in Engineer, and I will call off the kitten mages. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by SkyCakeLight.3750

[Iustitian.9176]

I like many of the changes and improvements, but there are things i miss or that are not calculated enough:
- Resolution: There are many skills and traits with an damage reflection aspect (whirling axe of rangers, provoke skills of firebrand and spellbreaker, pain inverter of asura race, experimental Turrets of engineer, spiteful spirit of necro e. g.). In these cases the change don't make sense.
- Resistance: There are some skills and traits that don't make sense when resistance don't reduce condition damage anymore (Healing signet of warrior, pain absorption of revenant, signet of renewal of Rangers e. g.). The whole demon theme of the revenant is about condition damage and how to reduce it! 
- Guardian with a defensive boon in the direct damage traitlines, really? There should be a massive change of this boon to a defensive traitline. 
- Mirage need more special mechanics (like shatter skills that don't destroy illusions, but with weaker effects and deactivation of the other ones for 3 seconds after use for example)
It's the only elite specialisation without a change of the main mechanic of the profession. The mirage skills should be more effective with more active illusions so it would fit better to the whole specialisation. 
- Necro: Scourge skills need a rework for more and better range effects. 
- Ranger: Druid traits and glyphs need a massive rework for a long time... 
- Warrior: Spiked armor to this? Why not a protection boon instead of resolution? That would make more sense.
The spellbreaker meditation skills need a trait and better effects!

Edited May 2, 2021 by Iustitian.9176

[Zaylo.8072]

So Revenant Demon stance is now useless with Pain Absorption and Facet of Nature - Demon probably just killing you if you press it in group content. Make Demon stance skills give and synergize with Resolution now instead of resistance since we'll have no way to deal with damage conditions now which was kind of the point of Malyx. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Zaylo.8072

[Matt H.6142]

I don’t see anything here to challenge the prevalence of HB or QB in LFG.  Firebrand is too highly tuned.  Instant Aegis in mantras is nullifying good gameplay.  And now it’s the principle provider of resolution. 
Slotting resolution in place of retribution will be sloppy. I believe in resolutions place in the game, but not necessarily in place of retaliation. 
Are you removing or replacing the chatter vo when retaliation is applied to a character?

I’ll grieve for the mantra vo but the change is some quality of life, but please address how these are not shouts. 

[Alik.9651]

totally agree with the PS. lol

[ZDragon.3046]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:18 PM, Lily.1935 said:

You know, speaking of mantras and how recasting them in the middle of combat isn't fun. You know what else isn't fun? Recasting our minions in the middle of combat. Especially since its counter intuitive with the way bone minions work now. Of course Flesh wurm can't really function like that so why not cut the cast time?

I didnt even think about this but honestly you are right. That said I still wished Minions worked like phantasom summons where they show up do a strong effective and active thing then go away on a ammo system or something. 

 

What I dislike is on certain boss mechanics, in raids for example, if I run flesh golem/blood fiend etc doing certain types of mechanics (often left to dps roles to fill) or getting hit by certain mechanics at random auto kills my golem because the mechanic causes me to transform flipping my skill bar to empty slots.

 

Just to name a few of the common ones off the top of my head

Shrooms on Sloth (wing2)

Getting sacrificed by Matt at random (wing2)

Getting jumped on by Samarog (wing4)

 

This kills them and puts them on full cooldown which is always frustrating especially in fights where the overall group cc is kinda low and depend on having a spice golem get 4-5 knock down hits through a large hit box like samarog's.

 

But generally yes having to re summon them after every gg is also kinda dull.

 

As many others have pointed out its a bit of a similar case for druid too with having to have someone gg or having to re summon spirits over and over. (bring back mobile spirits 2021) lol

 

[Bunny.9834]

How will these duration changes to conditions and boons affect expertise and concentration? 

Will it still matter having 100% duration increase for both now that we have a max cap? 

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

I didnt even think about this but honestly you are right.

 

 

Right about what? Minions not being invincible (because if they're not, you'll always need to re-cast them)? Or skills having cast time?

 

Quote

That said I still wished Minions worked like phantasom summons where they show up do a strong effective and active thing then go away on a ammo system or something. 

 

I've thought about something like this before, but then that sounds less like actual minions and more like regular skills with some kind of "minion-looking particle effect", right? Personally, I don't see the point -might as well just use different group of skills.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[RedShark.9548]

Sad patchnotes overall, worst of it all is that not a single 300s PLACEHOLDER trait has been changed. Have you guys even looked at those? How do you overlook traits with 300seconds cooldown, i dont get it. Those were not meant to stay like that, when cmc balance team made those changes

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

13 minutes ago, RedShark.9548 said:

Sad patchnotes overall, worst of it all is that not a single 300s PLACEHOLDER trait has been changed. Have you guys even looked at those? How do you overlook traits with 300seconds cooldown, i dont get it. Those were not meant to stay like that, when cmc balance team made those changes

Indeed. At this point there needs to be reworks of these traits rolled out, or for the 300s CDs to be reverted.

[Zoser.7245]

@Fire Attunement.9835

 

Please review/revise and rework the the "Pain Absorption" skill in the Revenant Legendary Demon Stance. We can't not control the conditions outside of our party and ourselves, with the new resistance... it will be an instant kill / suicide skill frequently for the player once the conditions from nearby allies are absorbed. 

 

Thanks.

 

What about the high cooldowns of the mesmer torch?  Also everything pierces now, nice job with Dragonhunter longbow, engineer rifle, warrior rifle,  Deadly Aim pistol pierce trait in the past...  What about let the Phantasmal Duelist pierce too?  Please... it's about time... to look at it also.  Slow revenant hammer., 300s traits...

 

I hope developers have time to do something with all that and of course all needed and pending. Too many things but it's better to take the time needed to balance and profit to add more and/or better content than rush the content like the Icebrood Saga ending. We can be patient if the result worth.

 

Again, thanks  for reading. Regards.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Zoser.7245