What's your thoughts on the upcoming balance changes?

[SunTzu.4513]

First of all here are the actual changes so far:

 

Necromancer

Necromancer is a flexible and durable profession. It’s not currently in need of any major changes, but alongside general improvements to the performance of other condition-kittenmage specializations, we’re improving the necromancer’s access to condition kittenmage in Curses with improved condition application. We’re also making improvements in Soul Reaping with Soul Barbs to increase condition kittenmage, and we’re making small improvements to the usability of several traits in the Blood Magic specialization.

Axe

• Ghastly Claws: This skill now requires a target to activate.

Lich Form

• Deathly Claws: This skill is no longer fires projectiles at enemies located behind the player.

Curses

• Barbed Precision: Increased duration of bleeding inflicted from 2 seconds to 3 seconds in PvE only.
• Insidious Disruption: Increased duration of torment from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.

Blood Magic

• Mark of Evasion: This trait no longer has an internal cooldown.
• Blood Bond: Reduced internal cooldown from 20 seconds to 16 seconds.
• Blood Bank: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now grants barrier for health gained while below full health at a 15% rate.

Soul Reaping

• Soul Barbs: This trait now increases all kittenmage dealt, not only strike kittenmage.

Reaper

• Infusing Terror: This skill can now be used in mikittenir so that it better functions with Death’s Charge.

 

I'm not sure overall but i think the changes to torment will have some impact on pvp/wvw. Maybe we will become more viable in PvE due to the changes to the breakbars. But overall i'm not really satisfied on the notes so far.

Edited April 30, 2021 by SunTzu.4513

[Obtena.7952]

I don't think the changes really cause me to rethink how I'm playing Necro and my builds. I think the addition to Blood Bank was necessary .. but 15% of healing received is still a pretty small barrier. Again, that change feels like lots of WvW zerg love, but not much else. 

 

I can see how Mark of Evasion without an ICD will be something that can be abused in a non-condi build for Blood Bond triggering. Overall, Blood Magic is slightly more appealing in PVE but not sure it's enough. 

[Anchoku.8142]

Hmm.. Small *improvements* for condition kittenmage builds but I suspect core Necro will still be trash in PvE aside from AFK farming and casual open world.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Anchoku.8142
Stupid language filter

[SevenBitBrian.8413]

Necro was one of the most balanced professions imo so while this doesn't change a lot I don't think much really needed to be changed. I like what was changed though, Necro will continue to have it's place in every single gamemode, which is more than we can say for other professions. But Balance takes time and trial and error.

Edited April 30, 2021 by SevenBitBrian.8413
spelling

[jpsssss.7530]

I'm still of the opinion that removing the well trait and "replacing it with blood bank is still a mistake. The Blood Bank buff should AT BARE KITTEN MINIMUM be in line with the rune that gives shield 20% of heals at all times. I still think Anet screwed up with that potato. Still won't take it because the other options are still better. 

[Infusion.7149]

It's a small improvement specific to Necromancers but the Torment changes should push it toward viability in most areas where the boss is stationary.
It's an indirect nerf to PVP/WVW necromancers running condi.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Dao Jones.6720]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It's an indirect nerf to PVP/WVW necromancers running condi.

Where are you seeing an “indirect nerf” to condi Necro in WvW/pvp? If anything, I think the Torment changes add another potentially meaningful source of condi kittenmage, and Soul Barbs now bukitten condi kittenmage. It’s not earth shaking, but that seems like an upward trend to me - not a downward one.

[Infusion.7149]

57 minutes ago, kitteno Jones.6720 said:

Where are you seeing an “indirect nerf” to condi Necro in WvW/pvp? If anything, I think the Torment changes add another potentially meaningful source of condi kittenmage, and Soul Barbs now bukitten condi kittenmage. It’s not earth shaking, but that seems like an upward trend to me - not a downward one.

Torment only does low DPS to non-moving targets after the patch.

Where is torment coming from? sand shades, torch, scepter 3 as well as most punishment skills that boon corrupt

Edited April 30, 2021 by Infusion.7149
fix

[Lily.1935]

Extremely disappointing not going to lie.

 

[Fueki.4753]

Necromancers getting even more survivability after the Menders patch not even scratching them and minions aren't getting nerfed in the slightest.

 

I guess minion spammers are becoming even more common in PvP in the future.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Axl.8924]

Looks to me a bit of nerfs and bukitten  i see ghastly claws thing sounds like a nerf to make it more easy to juke in pvp

 

• Deathly Claws: This skill is no longer fires projectiles at enemies located behind the player.
   
• is also a nerf. 

The rest looks like small bukitten for pve.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Dao Jones.6720]

47 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Torment only does kittenmage to non-moving targets after the patch.

Huh? Here's the patch note:

 

Quote

Deals kittenmage every second. Deals additional kittenmage to foes that are not moving. Stacks intensity.

Emphasis mine. It'll still kittenmage moving targets, and it'll do more kittenmage anything standing still. Which should be no one in PvP/WvW, but that buff seems more about helping PvE than competitive modes. (I.e. - it's not a wvw/pvp buff, but it's definitely not any sort of net reduction.)

[Infusion.7149]

They're swapping the torment multipliers probably. It currently does very low DPS on par with bleeds when the target isn't moving.

Current multipliers:
Non-moving = (0.045 * Condition kittenmage) + 15.9 DPS per second.
Moving = (0.09 * Condition kittenmage) + 31.8 DPS per stack per second at level 80.

Meta cDPS scourge with 25 might (no banner) it is :
~600 per tick burning
~271 per tick torment traited , ~405 if moving currently --- this will be swapped
~216 per tick poison
~204 per tick bleeding

Edited April 30, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Dao Jones.6720]

Ah. Well, that's a lot less exciting then.

[Infusion.7149]

3 minutes ago, kitteno Jones.6720 said:

Ah. Well, that's a lot less exciting then.

There is also the exposed changes that increase condi kittenmage by 100% : currently it is 50% for both power and condi. The problem is cFB hasn't been hit enough. Burning will still reign supreme when you can't abuse confusion procs.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Anchoku.8142]

I think Necro was buffed for condition kittenmage builds, which were kind of lame in PvE as opposed to some other professions but core Necro was a long, long way from competitive for instanced PvE content. I doubt the balance upkittente will result in core being a tolerable alternative to Reaper or Scourge.

 

We'll see what happens when the expansion releases. This coming patch sounds like a rebaseline attempt to see how the PvE meta shakes out before the new elite specializations are released. I honestly did not expect it because Arenanet has not done a PvE balance upkittente in a very long time and figured they had no bandwidth to spare before the expac.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

i wonder what necro will be like in pvp with new blood bank, death magic, sanctuary rune, and resolution from spite along with signets and dagger. maybe spite blood reaper would work too. gonna be fun to try and break the game.

[Anchoku.8142]

That is a good point: There are a number of trait and mechanic changes coming so it is logical to expect PvP balance patches to follow.

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i wonder what necro will be like in pvp with new blood bank, death magic, sanctuary rune, and resolution from spite along with signets and dagger. maybe spite blood reaper would work too. gonna be fun to try and break the game.

 

[Junkpile.7439]

Doesn't affect me at all. 🥳

[SunTzu.4513]

8 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

There is also the exposed changes that increase condi kittenmage by 100% : currently it is 50% for both power and condi. The problem is cFB hasn't been hit enough. Burning will still reign supreme when you can't abuse confusion procs.

 

My first thought was maybe condi Scourge will be getting more viable in raiding or fractals. But why should one put a Scourge into a group when you can use a FB? We have no really usefull utillity. Sure we can carry in PUG's but normaly this applys only to T1/2 Fracs where people don't know what they are doing.

And if we become viable in raids and top guilds/speed clear groups will starting stack condi classes the nerf bat will be used again and push us out of niche usage on a few encounters imo...

[Infusion.7149]

The only time scourge is preferable is if you have the new resolution (condi damage reduction) boon spammed by the target every 10 seconds and lethal melee range damage from the enemy. The boon corrupt would give you added damage.

CFB has no boon removal , but probably you would 2x Condi RR renegade (with the new torment) and 3x CFB anywhere that confusion doesn't tick insanely. Aegis would block any large attacks and smaller attacks could be outhealed with soulcleave.

CFB would still have the highest condition ticks in most of the game , as its burning is easily 1K/second per stack unlike on other classes.

Also good examples of where PUGs want scourges right now is in Qadim the Peerless (as a pylon) , Sabetha sometimes as a kiter, Vale Guardian if training, and Boneskinner (as heal scourge carry).

Edited May 1, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[slave to the grind.5028]

The torment nerf completely destroys the condi necro main I run in wvw and spent a bit over a month painstakingly gearing up. As for PvE, you might want to reconsider it being a buff if you're walking around solo. Keep in mind what your disablers are on necromancer and what they actually do. This is only a "buff" in group content in PvE and there, necro wasn't taken along aside from scourge healer anyway and it still won't be, because cfb outclasses it in every single way.

 

I'm not happy about this.

 

Frankly, if this is how it's gonna be, why not replace all torment sources with poison? It'd have much better synergy with the necromancer's traits and it'd at least leave the class some consistent, theme appropriate damage output.

[Dadnir.5038]

From my point of view:

- Torment change: Nice in PvE, not so nice in PvP/WvW. (thought, the fact that there is boons to corrupt in damaging conditions in PvP/WvW balance things in my opinion. I'd say that it was a nicely thought out change.)

- Retaliation becoming resolution: It will mainly hurt condi builds in PvP/WvW. (neither a good nor bad change in my opinion)

- Resistance only affecting damaging conditions: Interesting change.

- Boon/condition duration caped: A change that will have a lot of impact in PvE and close to none in PvP (WvW being in between in term of impact).

- Lich's deathly claw change look like a troll.

- Mark of evasion: I think 4s would have been better than no ICD at all (but well, I'll gladly take this change with a smile).

- Blood bank: Will probably need some fine tuning (especially since it mean that you gain 15% increase to incoming healing effect while not at max health. Maybe they could reduce the incoming conversion rate when at 100% health to balance things a bit).

 

Overall, it's not a bad patch for the necromancer but players might complain about yet another increase of the overall tankiness encountered in PvP/WvW.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Good patch it seems in my opinion, a buff for both condi scourge and reaper in pve.

I'm not sure it'll make them "viable" compared to all others condi classes but less trash, less dependent to gimmicks like condi transfer and whirls.

Necessary nerf to insane Death claw in PvP.

 

About torment in pvp, I don' know; we need more hindsight with the reworked boons too but the easy resolution spam won't help.

[KrHome.1920]

My predictions:

- Condi Scourge will go over 30k dps in PvE.

- Blood Bank will be overpowered in the competitive modes.