Ranger patch changes

[Krispera.5087]

I was expecting something for the Druid and nothing happened. Sic Em, sure. The rest ? Oof.

 

No point to play any other classes but Guardian.

[WolfHeart.1256]

Soulbeast changes are fine, Sic 'Em nerf was even expected, I would say.

 

But druid has no place as a support class in WvW and it's great to see this was untouched. Not.

 

 

LE: reading all of the responses, this seems to be the general consensus about Druid. A shame, really.

Edited May 1, 2021 by WolfHeart.1256

[Shagie.7612]

It's not something I expected to see in a patch like this, but man, I was really hoping to see them shake up pets.

 

They so badly need remade. There's like 3 that can hit moving targets, nobody enjoys the random CC, stats and skills are wildly imbalanced between them all.

 

Maybe in the expac.

 

basically i wanna use a lizard or the aquastalker (cheetah, whatever) but they're all pretty crappy

Edited May 1, 2021 by Shagie.7612

[Soilder.3607]

3 hours ago, WolfHeart.1256 said:

Soulbeast changes are fine, Sic 'Em nerf was even expected, I would say.

 

But druid has no place as a support class in WvW and it's great to see this was untouched. Not.

 

 

LE: reading all of the responses, this seems to be the general consensus about Druid. A shame, really.

Immob Druid is run in guild comps. It's basically the opposite of Immob Soulbeast, with healing + immob instead of damage + immob.

 

Standard Healing and Cleansing Druid isn't bad either, it just isn't as good as Scrapper.

[Infusion.7149]

I don't see why anyone would use immob druid in a comp unless they don't use sneak gyro or veil at all. Until there is an option to perma-stow the pet it isn't preferable to use it in WvW. Ancient Seeds has a 10s ICD after all and astral force was not re-balanced after the Feb 2020 update.
Scrapper heals scale insanely with boons by the way.

As far as ranger soulbeast nerfs, as I posted in the main thread, there is little reason to touch One Wolf Pack if Sic Em is nerfed.

[Teratus.2859]

I'm quite curious about the Warhorn 5 change.. I used to run Warhorn a while back and I've always liked the weapon on Ranger.
The problem for me was always CC was a big weak spot on my PvE build and eventually I decided to remedy that with a few changes.

I replaced the Warhorn with Offhand Axe and replaced my Jungle Stalker with the Electric Wyvern.
This give me an on hand CC with Axe 4, some extra CC on the pet's attack auto rotation and a combo field F2 which I can trigger a hard CC with Leap finishers.

But I lost a weapon I liked as well as the fun buffs it applied.
With this change I can rethink adding Warhorn back onto my build, I'll definitely take a damage loss from loosing Axe 5 but I might do it anyway just because I like the Warhorn.
 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I don't see why anyone would use immob druid in a comp unless they don't use sneak gyro or veil at all. Until there is an option to perma-stow the pet it isn't preferable to use it in WvW. Ancient Seeds has a 10s ICD after all and astral force was not re-balanced after the Feb 2020 update.
Scrapper heals scale insanely with boons by the way.

As far as ranger soulbeast nerfs, as I posted in the main thread, there is little reason to touch One Wolf Pack if Sic Em is nerfed.

 

Ancient Seeds isn't the only means of immob for a Druid--in fact it's usually my last option (unless someone else triggers it).  I've found great success in being a kite machine / harasser  / staller / +1; doubly so since most people underestimate Ranger as a free down.  

 

But the balance team does need to learn that skills are not the Ranger's problem, traitlines are.  Coming from a WvW perspective, WH change would be nice for me but I have no place for it as NM is a hardsell over pretty much any other line.  Untraited the CD is far too long to be useful.  

 

It would be great if they would actually fix Commands, because changing from shouts broke any option not involving WS.  Not only that, but I can never find a good reason to take BM on my Druid so my pet is essentially a CC utility instead of doing damage like it was intended.  Before the command thing used to be able to take BM and shouts as an alternate to WS for cleansing...not now.  

 

[Axl.8924]

22 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Ancient Seeds isn't the only means of immob for a Druid--in fact it's usually my last option (unless someone else triggers it).  I've found great success in being a kite machine / harasser  / staller / +1; doubly so since most people underestimate Ranger as a free down.  

 

But the balance team does need to learn that skills are not the Ranger's problem, traitlines are.  Coming from a WvW perspective, WH change would be nice for me but I have no place for it as NM is a hardsell over pretty much any other line.  Untraited the CD is far too long to be useful.  

 

It would be great if they would actually fix Commands, because changing from shouts broke any option not involving WS.  Not only that, but I can never find a good reason to take BM on my Druid so my pet is essentially a CC utility instead of doing damage like it was intended.  Before the command thing used to be able to take BM and shouts as an alternate to WS for cleansing...not now.  

 

Sounds like a lot of other classes really, where weapons are left in the dust nec mes rangers. Some weapons need to be updated.

 

Would be nice if more weapons had a place in spvp and WVW, if even niche areas.

 

Also rather concerned with the nerfs too that nerf to soulbeast is def rather large.

 

I hope they don-t go after core next, because then you will have to use whatever next elite comes out to be meta.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Infusion.7149]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Ancient Seeds isn't the only means of immob for a Druid--in fact it's usually my last option (unless someone else triggers it).  I've found great success in being a kite machine / harasser  / staller / +1; doubly so since most people underestimate Ranger as a free down.  

 

But the balance team does need to learn that skills are not the Ranger's problem, traitlines are.  Coming from a WvW perspective, WH change would be nice for me but I have no place for it as NM is a hardsell over pretty much any other line.  Untraited the CD is far too long to be useful.  

 

It would be great if they would actually fix Commands, because changing from shouts broke any option not involving WS.  Not only that, but I can never find a good reason to take BM on my Druid so my pet is essentially a CC utility instead of doing damage like it was intended.  Before the command thing used to be able to take BM and shouts as an alternate to WS for cleansing...not now.  

 

Skills are absolutely part of the issue. With druid, other than the Natural Convergence in CA (druid only), Entangle (a core skill), Muddy Terrain (a core skill), + Vine Surge on Staff (druid only) there isn't much else for immob. Glyph of Alignment requires not being in CA and you probably would not run Signet of the Wild on a heal-oriented druid.

Ultimately it is Vine Surge vs Prelude Lash + Signet of the Wild + permanent merged damage / speed bonus and stance sharing unless you can amanage high CA uptime.

If you're playing druid you would probably not run it as a offense / DPS and staff isn't that potent in terms of support after Feb 2020. Since Astral Force generation has not been rebalanced after the damage and healing nerfs, it means the potency of Celestial Avatar is not on tap as often.

Whereas a PVE druid would have spirits and axe+warhorn to fall back on, the mainhand axe is underwhelming on a druid and warhorn is single target even if it has high damage.

If druid is to be a serious WvW class the Astral Force needs to be rebalanced, staff needs to be looked at, pet perma-stow should be an option for stealth pushes. Druid does have superspeed + stealth on leaving CA if you trait for it with Celestial Shadow, but it's irrelevant if almost all your heal potency is contingent on staying in CA. In most cases you are better off with more condi clearing with Verdant Etching if you run glyphs at all and that is only if you are attempting to fill in the slot of a scrapper (because you can't replace a firebrand without stability).

[Strider.7849]

On 4/30/2021 at 3:28 PM, WindBlade.8749 said:

Ranger is basicly dead now, at least the power variant, they nerfed his burst but psb only do that, burst at 90k damage and do nothing until the next burst, 3% is not enough at all to convert him from a burst class to a consistant dps, he just gonna join reaper dps average, except reaper have utility, survivability etc to compensate.

In fractals it's even worse with the nerf on breakbar exposure.

Even if it's was not the best i kinda like the current meta, there is some diversity on dps, you could take an ele, engi, ranger, guardian for dps and revenant, guardian, warrior for support (dps also for bs), which make about 7/9 class of the game, not perfect but there was some diversity on dps.

I also kinda like the rainbow sinergy we got, a sb give high burst and give burst to others dps with stance share, the weaver get the same burst as sb with the stance share and give fire field to increase the damgage of the sb and the bs and keep the might up with burst combo, the bs put banners to increase the dps of the others and give a lot of cc to the team (without speaking about support who give protect, stab etc..)

Now everything is gonna be cfb only with the buff of 100% damage for condi in fractals.

Support (with mirage and scrapper buff) gonna become more diverse that a good point but dps.....

 

So yea good patch since reta was usless when you had it and annoying when an enemy had it.
Transforming a 100% ressistance to 33% like protect for power is logic nowday since back in the day there was no condi build.*

Tourment is nice since most of the mobs never move, it's better like that.

 

pretty good patch for PvE except the psb that got deleted from the game and the exposure nerf that gonna ruin fractal ......

It's kind of overly dramatic. I get it, I'm a ranger main too and nerfs suck. Power SLB isn't dead though, it will still have good burst and okay sustained damage post patch. Overall ranger will be more or less the same post patch. Be grateful they made very low impact choices, some other professions are being gutted due to a lack of foresight (i.e. warrior and interactions with resistance).

[Gotejjeken.1267]

20 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Skills are absolutely part of the issue. With druid, other than the Natural Convergence in CA (druid only), Entangle (a core skill), Muddy Terrain (a core skill), + Vine Surge on Staff (druid only) there isn't much else for immob. Glyph of Alignment requires not being in CA and you probably would not run Signet of the Wild on a heal-oriented druid.

Ultimately it is Vine Surge vs Prelude Lash + Signet of the Wild + permanent merged damage / speed bonus and stance sharing unless you can amanage high CA uptime.

If you're playing druid you would probably not run it as a offense / DPS and staff isn't that potent in terms of support after Feb 2020. Since Astral Force generation has not been rebalanced after the damage and healing nerfs, it means the potency of Celestial Avatar is not on tap as often.

Whereas a PVE druid would have spirits and axe+warhorn to fall back on, the mainhand axe is underwhelming on a druid and warhorn is single target even if it has high damage.

If druid is to be a serious WvW class the Astral Force needs to be rebalanced, staff needs to be looked at, pet perma-stow should be an option for stealth pushes. Druid does have superspeed + stealth on leaving CA if you trait for it with Celestial Shadow, but it's irrelevant if almost all your heal potency is contingent on staying in CA. In most cases you are better off with more condi clearing with Verdant Etching if you run glyphs at all and that is only if you are attempting to fill in the slot of a scrapper (because you can't replace a firebrand without stability).

 

I mean yeah, you are going to use core skills no matter what, essentially what I mean is adding a daze to a skill really does nothing to balance the class because WH 5 was fine anyway (blast finisher, boons, etc.); it was/is WH 4 that needs serious looking at.

 

Anyway, that's still a lot of immob potential + all the ways you can chain off stuns and such to get ancient seeds to hit.  I would never run power Druid though.  

 

Finally, I don't like the idea of perma-stow though, that's what SB is for, so it really should never come to other specs.  They need to rework the pet--making it immune to AoE would probably fix most if not all problems with them.  If not that, jack up their health a lot and reduce the swap penalty for them dying.  

[Infusion.7149]

19 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I mean yeah, you are going to use core skills no matter what, essentially what I mean is adding a daze to a skill really does nothing to balance the class because WH 5 was fine anyway (blast finisher, boons, etc.); it was/is WH 4 that needs serious looking at.

 

Anyway, that's still a lot of immob potential + all the ways you can chain off stuns and such to get ancient seeds to hit.  I would never run power Druid though.  

 

Finally, I don't like the idea of perma-stow though, that's what SB is for, so it really should never come to other specs.  They need to rework the pet--making it immune to AoE would probably fix most if not all problems with them.  If not that, jack up their health a lot and reduce the swap penalty for them dying.  

Permastow (i.e. if you stow it then it doesn't just appear once you attack) is for stealth pushing, it has nothing to do with AOE/CC on the pet...
Having a pet run into AOE is animal cruelty.

edit: the difference between a perma-stow option and soulbeast would be soulbeast has merged bonuses while druid has CA and up to 2 pets

Edited May 2, 2021 by Infusion.7149
clarify perma-stow

[Soilder.3607]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Skills are absolutely part of the issue. With druid, other than the Natural Convergence in CA (druid only), Entangle (a core skill), Muddy Terrain (a core skill), + Vine Surge on Staff (druid only) there isn't much else for immob. Glyph of Alignment requires not being in CA and you probably would not run Signet of the Wild on a heal-oriented druid.

 

Immob Druid isn't meant to be a dedicated healer, nor is it supposed to replace a scrapper in a comp. It is taken in addition to a Scrapper + Firebrand to fill a support role. Not surprisingly, it's main role is to provide AoE immobs and supplemental healing/cleansing. It's strong, and that's why some guilds run it. It is not going to form the backbone of a comp, but it is quite good if taking 2-3. Glyph of Alignment is a great skill because you can use it outside of CA for immobing, or you can use it in CA for strong healing and cleansing. Signet of the Wild is usually taken too because you aren't going for full healing/cleansing cause you should already have a FB/Scrapper in your party.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAYZlNwWYbMO2JWsOpt1SeVDA-zRJYjhOAA-e

 

This is what I run when my guild asks for me to play Immob Druid. I made it quickly just to show skills/traits, so it's missing gear, which should be Ministrel's. I think it's the standard Immob Druid bar for what other guilds run. Vine Surge is supposed to be used with quickdraw too, which can give you a recharge of ~7s for it. This bar has plenty sources of immob, letting you immob nearly every ranged and melee push by your zerg. And it still brings decent healing/cleansing with all those immobs.

 

We didn't run Immob Druids last night but we ran 3x Immob Soulbeast and trapped nearly 5-10 enemies with every push (we have Chronos for stripping and pulling). Immob Druid would've done the same thing, but with heals instead of damage.

 

 

[Infusion.7149]

3 minutes ago, Soilder.3607 said:

Immob Druid isn't meant to be a dedicated healer, nor is it supposed to replace a scrapper in a comp. It is taken in addition to a Scrapper + Firebrand to fill a support role. Not surprisingly, it's main role is to provide AoE immobs and supplemental healing/cleansing. It's strong, and that's why some guilds run it. It is not going to form the backbone of a comp, but it is quite good if taking 2-3. Glyph of Alignment is a great skill because you can use it outside of CA for immobing, or you can use it in CA for strong healing and cleansing. Signet of the Wild is usually taken too because you aren't going for full healing/cleansing cause you should already have a FB/Scrapper in your party.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAYZlNwWYbMO2JWsOpt1SeVDA-zRJYjhOAA-e

 

This is what I run when my guild asks for me to play Immob Druid. I made it quickly just to show skills/traits, so it's missing gear, which should be Ministrel's. I think it's the standard Immob Druid bar for what other guilds run. Vine Surge is supposed to be used with quickdraw too, which can give you a recharge of ~7s for it. This bar has plenty sources of immob, letting you immob nearly every ranged and melee push by your zerg. And it still brings decent healing/cleansing with all those immobs.

 

We didn't run Immob Druids last night but we ran 3x Immob Soulbeast and trapped nearly 5-10 enemies with every push (we have Chronos for stripping and pulling). Immob Druid would've done the same thing, but with heals instead of damage.

 

 

Has it occurred to you maybe the reason you trapped enemies on each push is because you didn't have the pet giving away position every time?

[Soilder.3607]

7 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Has it occurred to you maybe the reason you trapped enemies on each push is because you didn't have the pet giving away position every time?

The pet can be an issue, but not always, because not every push is made while in combat (meaning you can stow it), and of the pushes that are made in combat not all are made while stealthed because of the cooldown.

 

Even when the pet is dead and unstowable, the impact it has on stealth pushes varies based on A. Whether you have pugs following you (which can happen even if your tag is invisible to those outside your squad), which means you're going to have a few players unstealthed anyway. B. Whether the enemy zerg is attentive enough to notice the pet. C. Whether the tail of the enemy zerg is tight to their commander, because if they aren't, they'll get trapped even if they're commander spots your push early.

 

[Infusion.7149]

2 minutes ago, Soilder.3607 said:

The pet can be an issue, but not always, because not every push is made while in combat (meaning you can stow it), and of the pushes that are made in combat not all are made while stealthed because of the cooldown.

 

Even when the pet is dead and unstowable, the impact it has on stealth pushes varies based on A. Whether you have pugs following you (which can happen even if your tag is invisible to those outside your squad), which means you're going to have a few players unstealthed anyway. B. Whether the enemy zerg is attentive enough to notice the pet. C. Whether the tail of the enemy zerg is tight to their commander, because if they aren't, they'll get trapped even if they're commander spots your push early.

 

My point is you can't deny that it would be a positive change if you can keep the pet from deploying on its own if druid spec.

Also the way I see it, Ancient seeds in its current iteration is a "win more" trait. It is not a tide-changing skill because it requires your target to be CCed.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Soilder.3607]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

My point is you can't deny that it would be a positive change if you can keep the pet from deploying on its own if druid spec.

 

I believe it was Gotejjeken.1267 who mentioned not wanting the pet to be permanently stowable.

 

I fully agree that the pet should be permanently stowable. From a WvW perspective, I would go as far as to remove the pet from the Druid entirely and implement some sort of other, minor mechanic to replace it.

[enkeny.6937]

There are other options.
Why not let the pet use the ranger's buffs. If the ranger has stealth, the pet also has stealth. Same with spotter banners, spirits, boons etc. and it cannot get this effect other ways. (some traits and skills need to follow this change.)

btw can't we get a core ranger f5 skill for pet skill 2 ? (same as F2, but for a family skill 🙂 , like revenant got Ancient Echo) 

[Abyssisis.3971]

With retaliation being changed to provide - 33% condition damage, would it be worthwhile changing axe5 to providing another boon instead? Perhaps stability?

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

On 5/1/2021 at 1:22 AM, InsaneQR.7412 said:

I understand the changes and i like the warhorn daze.

But i also hope druid and the pets get some love in the future.

 

In fact, I think this is the beginning of love for druid.

Warhorn daze is a a bonus if you are using Ancient Seeds. Basically druid will get one more cc, plus access to roots, more often than before.

I am talking only from WvW Roaming and sPVP pov. A build with Axe+Warhorn/ Shortbow will be one of the best cc build. Ofc we can mix all kind of weapons , Axe+Warhorn/Sword+Axe could be another good one. I think Druid can start to be the old bunker build as was before. 

I am not saying Druid will shine, but this it is a start.

[aymnad.9023]

6 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

With retaliation being changed to provide - 33% condition damage, would it be worthwhile changing axe5 to providing another boon instead? Perhaps stability?

I cannot think of a weapon skill that gives stability. The 33% damage reduction is good because you will not be able to cast dispells, why do you want to change it?

Edited May 3, 2021 by aymnad.9023

[Abyssisis.3971]

3 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I cannot think of a weapon skill that gives stability. The 33% damage reduction is good because you will not be able to cast dispells, why do you want to change it?

I feel like it might be a good change to the skill since it’s immobile and very easy to interrupt in melee with its animation being so out there.
 

[mistsim.2748]

On 5/2/2021 at 3:32 PM, Soilder.3607 said:

Immob Druid isn't meant to be a dedicated healer, nor is it supposed to replace a scrapper in a comp. It is taken in addition to a Scrapper + Firebrand to fill a support role. Not surprisingly, it's main role is to provide AoE immobs and supplemental healing/cleansing. It's strong, and that's why some guilds run it. It is not going to form the backbone of a comp, but it is quite good if taking 2-3. Glyph of Alignment is a great skill because you can use it outside of CA for immobing, or you can use it in CA for strong healing and cleansing. Signet of the Wild is usually taken too because you aren't going for full healing/cleansing cause you should already have a FB/Scrapper in your party.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAYZlNwWYbMO2JWsOpt1SeVDA-zRJYjhOAA-e

 

This is what I run when my guild asks for me to play Immob Druid. I made it quickly just to show skills/traits, so it's missing gear, which should be Ministrel's. I think it's the standard Immob Druid bar for what other guilds run. Vine Surge is supposed to be used with quickdraw too, which can give you a recharge of ~7s for it. This bar has plenty sources of immob, letting you immob nearly every ranged and melee push by your zerg. And it still brings decent healing/cleansing with all those immobs.

 

We didn't run Immob Druids last night but we ran 3x Immob Soulbeast and trapped nearly 5-10 enemies with every push (we have Chronos for stripping and pulling). Immob Druid would've done the same thing, but with heals instead of damage.

 

 

And this needs more upvotes. I run both Minstrel Immob Druid and Marauder Immob Soulbeast. They aren't backbone, as you say, but they are excellent at what they do and running a few is super effective.

[InsaneQR.7412]

17 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

In fact, I think this is the beginning of love for druid.

Warhorn daze is a a bonus if you are using Ancient Seeds. Basically druid will get one more cc, plus access to roots, more often than before.

I am talking only from WvW Roaming and sPVP pov. A build with Axe+Warhorn/ Shortbow will be one of the best cc build. Ofc we can mix all kind of weapons , Axe+Warhorn/Sword+Axe could be another good one. I think Druid can start to be the old bunker build as was before. 

I am not saying Druid will shine, but this it is a start.

Yeah thats a reason why i like the WH change. But druid still needs a good trait rework. I would love it if the GM traits would enhance CAF in different ways similar to the daredevil GM traits change the dodges. So one could be avatar of the sun that focusses on burning, direct damage, blinds and pumping out might. One could be the avatar of the moon that focusses on healing, slows, revals and stealth. And the last could be the avatar of earth that could focus on bleeds, stuns and roots.

 

Staff itself can also use some changes to staff 1 and staff 2. Staff 4 just needs some additional damage like bleeds and maybe a longer travel range and a bit higher speed.

Staff 5 would be nice to be circular.

 

 

[CETheLucid.3964]

The more I think about the balance patch related to EoD new elite specs, the more I'm thinking the pass was just to get things in line for the new spec. I expected the Sic em' nerf at this point for Soulbeast. Still don't understand why One Wolf Pack needed a CD nerf since it's exclusive to Soulbeast and not something that by itself was doing anything amazing given the utility you gave up for it.

 

The bump up from 7% to 10% with Furious Strength with the way condition damage has been changed and the overall capping of boons and conditions could prove better than it looks on paper. The AoE stun for CoTW could really stick out as a control point if Ranger ends up getting the bunnythumper spec and in general it gives ranger more access to stun which is nice.

 

It's not much but it could be interesting and pan out better as we get more info leading into new elite specs with EoD.