CMC, what about Mallyx bro?

[mistsim.2748]

I hope there is follow up on the these PvE-centric changes. Mallyx is a dead spec in spvp with the Resistance rework. Give it some condi cleanse and access Resolution, otherwise it's seriously DOA. 

[Shao.7236]

Even in any gamemode the changes are so contradictory to the legend, it's all mechanically broken in the end.

 

Have Empowering Misery eat all damaging conditions, same with Pain Absorption. That's an easy rework that doesn't break the game and keeps Resistance relevant for the non damaging condition effects to be nullified.

 

Edit: Just a maybe, conditions removed could grant bonus energy, no idea if that'd be hard to implement.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Shao.7236
Extra ideas.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

 

13 minutes ago, mistsim.2748 said:

I hope there is follow up on the these PvE-centric changes. Mallyx is a dead spec in spvp with the Resistance rework. Give it some condi cleanse and access Resolution, otherwise it's seriously DOA. 

 

Mallyx was always already dead, ever since resistance had it's duration reduced to 1 second intervals and it's energy cost rocketed up into the atmosphere.

 

Side note: Technically Rev has access to resolution via retribution line, the tanky dwarf spec.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Shao.7236]

Just now, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

 

Mallyx was always already dead, ever since resistance had it's duration reduced to 1 second intervals and it's energy cost rocketed up into the atmosphere.

 

 

Hard disagree, Mallyx never needed Resistance traits outside making sure the healing is used at full potential as a standalone. Pain Absorption was always enough, right now doesn't kill you from all the conditions that you take from teammates while giving those Resistance also while being rewarded with extra as well.

 

However with the changes, same with the Mallyx Facet that stuff will "murder" you seriously.

 

I've gone as far as stacking over 40+ burns on myself to do some serious transfers in teamfights, that stuff will no longer be possible which is ok, but the legend itself shouldn't just be dysfunctional because of these oversights.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 minute ago, Shao.7236 said:

Hard disagree, Mallyx never needed Resistance traits outside making sure the healing is used at full potential as a standalone. Pain Absorption was always enough, right now doesn't kill you from all the conditions that you take from teammates while giving those Resistance also while being rewarded with extra as well.

 

However with the changes, same with the Mallyx Facet that stuff will "murder" you seriously.

 

I've gone as far as stacking over 40+ burns on myself to do some serious transfers in teamfights, that stuff will no longer be possible which is ok, but the legend itself shouldn't just be dysfunctional because of these oversights.

 

So what's the issue, if resistance gets changed into a different mechanic,  if Mallyx never needed it?

 

And I mean I get you, and I agree that Mallyx never really needed resistance like that...but the resistance just made the build useful in a lot of more interesting ways...it was a useful mechanic in team-fights (Take the condi's from your friends to keep them alive) but without resistance, there's no incentive to help your team...so idk I just see a lot of major flaws in Mallyx without resistance. 

[Quadox.7834]

12 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

 

Mallyx was always already dead, ever since resistance had it's duration reduced to 1 second intervals and it's energy cost rocketed up into the atmosphere.

 

Side note: Technically Rev has access to resolution via retribution line, the tanky dwarf spec.

 

It was used in top teams in mAT and other tourneys, wtf u talking about

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

4 minutes ago, Quadox.7834 said:

It was used in top teams in mAT and other tourneys, wtf u talking about

 

what people still used mallyx after the resistance nerfs? Pretty sure people went and moved to Sevenshot Renegades after that.

 

Edit: According to metabattle, it's meta so i guess people still use it. Havn't played the game that much (i log on like once a month) so i suppose after patch we will have to see how mallyx fairs with those boon changes.

Edited April 30, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Quadox.7834]

6 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

what people still used mallyx after the resistance nerfs? Pretty sure people went and moved to Sevenshot Renegades after that.

 

Edit: According to metabattle, it's meta so i guess people still use it. Havn't played the game that much (i log on like once a month) so i suppose after patch we will have to see how mallyx fairs with those boon changes.

Don't think it will be good after patch (not just bcs of resistance changes but because of the torment change).

Go watch some AT vods on MightyTeapot's twitch if you want to see crev. It wasn't quite as good as prot holo or scourge but still very strong.

[Shao.7236]

5 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

So what's the issue, if resistance gets changed into a different mechanic,  if Mallyx never needed it?

 

And I mean I get you, and I agree that Mallyx never really needed resistance like that...but the resistance just made the build useful in a lot of more interesting ways...it was a useful mechanic in team-fights (Take the condi's from your friends to keep them alive) but without resistance, there's no incentive to help your team...so idk I just see a lot of major flaws in Mallyx without resistance. 

Given that if something similar to my early suggestion is taken into account, the incentive to take away damaging conditions from teammates is there with the added resistance could still be an useful tool.

 

Based on how it played over the years, I've always used RotGD traited in team fights which has often turned them over, I'm sure it'll be no different and in fact greatly appreciated by all professions that retaliation changes will benefit most while Resistance IMO should see duration increase in most skills and traits so that stuff like soft-cc spam isn't so oppressive anymore. (Blindness and Chill have seen quite a surge lately, Weakness too but it isn't as bad with the RNG and crit sigil.)

 

Condition Damage reduction is a pretty strong thing and I'm glad it'll be more universal than just a revenant thing.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

8 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Given that if something similar to my early suggestion is taken into account, the incentive to take away damaging conditions from teammates is there with the added resistance could still be an useful tool.

 

Based on how it played over the years, I've always used RotGD traited in team fights which has often turned them over, I'm sure it'll be no different and in fact greatly appreciated by all professions that retaliation changes will benefit most while Resistance IMO should see duration increase in most skills and traits so that stuff like soft-cc spam isn't so oppressive anymore. (Blindness and Chill have seen quite a surge lately, Weakness too but it isn't as bad with the RNG and crit sigil.)

 

Condition Damage reduction is a pretty strong thing and I'm glad it'll be more universal than just a revenant thing.

 

Ya for sure. I like your suggestion... a lot really...there should really be some kind of thing on mallyx that functions on the build that makes it interactive...like treating conditions like some alternate form of energy for the rev...which is kinda what mallyx did when it stacked up resistance...but instead we are just getting flat out damage reduction now. -33% Condi damage reduction is definitely not a negligible effect but its just not very interesting in my eyes...damage reduction...its very passive, very boring...

 

ehh...idk Just the whole patch seems uninspiring, more normalizing, and more trying to balance stuff by making things "consistent" which is just a another word for homogenizing mechanics.

 

But hey, Blood Scourge gets a nice buff to Blood Bank. That should be fun to watch play out on the forums, lol.

Edited April 30, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Shao.7236]

1 minute ago, Quadox.7834 said:

Don't think it will be good after patch (not just bcs of resistance changes but because of the torment change).

Go watch some AT vods on MightyTeapot's twitch if you want to see crev. It wasn't quite as good as prot holo or scourge but still very strong.

Torment changes are interesting, bad at first look however it's much easiest to keep someone still than make them move.

 

Just IMO, I would willingly take Mallyx bursts entirely just to clear them shortly after because standing still was the better solution, if anything Torment has no real way of being any better, this is just an alternate timeline of it I'd say.

 

In the end, Torment has better synergy with CC's now. If it could be a percentage of the movement. Chill and Cripple would see a better use too.

[mistsim.2748]

34 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

So what's the issue, if resistance gets changed into a different mechanic,  if Mallyx never needed it?

 

And I mean I get you, and I agree that Mallyx never really needed resistance like that...but the resistance just made the build useful in a lot of more interesting ways...it was a useful mechanic in team-fights (Take the condi's from your friends to keep them alive) but without resistance, there's no incentive to help your team...so idk I just see a lot of major flaws in Mallyx without resistance. 

Mallyx/Herald was/is still top tier on the side node. it just had to become more specialized, instead of being a God. 

 

I also don't mind the torment changes. I'm just concerned about Mallyx not having any survivability left.

Edited April 30, 2021 by mistsim.2748

[Buran.3796]

   The Retaliation - Resolution change doesn't seems to be very ituitive. The largest access to retaliation came from Retribution and Jalis, but if you have Jalis you already get access to a lot of condition cleanses. Also, you can get resolution after evades, so now Unrelenting Assault will grant condition damage reduction after dealing heavy power damage while evading. In short: looks to me that power Rev brings the builds which benefits the most from the changes, which is weird because to me already was stronger than the condition variants. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

they should make torment deal more dmg the closer you are to target, that way its interactive.
could make brackets like within 200, within 400, within 600, over 600
for 100% dmg, 80% dmg, 60% dmg and 50% dmg or something of the sort

[Quadox.7834]

34 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Torment changes are interesting, bad at first look however it's much easiest to keep someone still than make them move.

 

Just IMO, I would willingly take Mallyx bursts entirely just to clear them shortly after because standing still was the better solution, if anything Torment has no real way of being any better, this is just an alternate timeline of it I'd say.

 

In the end, Torment has better synergy with CC's now. If it could be a percentage of the movement. Chill and Cripple would see a better use too.

You just put an aoe under their feet

[Shao.7236]

30 minutes ago, Quadox.7834 said:

You just put an aoe under their feet

Asking that from a Revenant, there's not enough AoE's to do so. Put one down, move 2 feet, countered.

 

Same thing with Mesmer, people move 2 feet and they're safe.

 

Now you look at what it entails to CC someone still you have way more options than putting one AoE that can be easily avoided.

 

Torment like this is more in favor of the offender rather than the victim. In either situations the victim can also counter like before with movement while the attacker can keep the pressure.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Shao.7236

[Aktium.9506]

No, let Mallyx die.

 

It deserves it along with the corruption traitline for being made up out of ideas blatantly stolen from the old pre-HoT Necro forum wish lists and idea threads.

 

I am still salty about it after 6 years.

[Quadox.7834]

15 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Asking that from a Revenant, there's not enough AoE's to do so. Put one down, move 2 feet, countered.

 

Same thing with Mesmer, people move 2 feet and they're safe.

 

Now you look at what it entails to CC someone still you have way more options than putting one AoE that can be easily avoided.

 

Torment like this is more in favor of the offender rather than the victim. In either situations the victim can also counter like before with movement while the attacker can keep the pressure.

Depends on what you are facing, when I'm playing mes it is very easy to force me to move. Maybe not so much with degen kitten like scourge & decap druid.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Quadox.7834

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Another potential fix would be giving mallyx the new resolution boon.

[Lucentfir.7430]

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Torment changes are interesting, bad at first look however it's much easiest to keep someone still than make them move.

 

Just IMO, I would willingly take Mallyx bursts entirely just to clear them shortly after because standing still was the better solution, if anything Torment has no real way of being any better, this is just an alternate timeline of it I'd say.

 

In the end, Torment has better synergy with CC's now. If it could be a percentage of the movement. Chill and Cripple would see a better use too.

From my understanding, reworking torment was mainly a designated change for PVE considering Bosses and Mob AI don't tend to move much. All they did was invert the condition effect , so I seriously doubt there's any synergy between chill and cripple with new Torment, only hard stun. There was already synergy with chill and cripple with old torment, as you cover less distance if you try to kite, and you take more damage for moving. Mallyx losing it's flavor as the condition controller legend is also very unfortunate. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

10 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Another potential fix would be giving mallyx the new resolution boon.

its not a solution, its a band-aid. not even good one.
IMO they should give resistance back to mallyx, as an unique effect to them.
maybe not thrown as willynilly as it is right not, but it should be there

[Miss Pepper.5793]

For something that is dead on arrival, I am still seeing at least* two condi revs in the majority of ranked PvP games that I play. The most versatile of all the classes with meta builds available in each spec. I wish the same could be said for the rest of the classes!

[mistsim.2748]

1 hour ago, Miss Pepper.5793 said:

For something that is dead on arrival, I am still seeing at least* two condi revs in the majority of ranked PvP games that I play. The most versatile of all the classes with meta builds available in each spec. I wish the same could be said for the rest of the classes!

DOA on May 11th.

[noobfest.2180]

On 4/30/2021 at 5:05 PM, mistsim.2748 said:

I hope there is follow up on the these PvE-centric changes. Mallyx is a dead spec in spvp with the Resistance rework. Give it some condi cleanse and access Resolution, otherwise it's seriously DOA. 

Isn’t there some retaliation(reso) off the dwarf line? I mean really though. Have you looked at warriors? They have nothing. Outside of one passive trait in Defense that gives 5 seconds of retaliation that no one uses because Defense sucks and is riddled with 300 second CD traits or generally useless ones. Before looking at other much higher performing specs they need to go back and fix the basics.

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, noobfest.2180 said:

Isn’t there some retaliation(reso) off the dwarf line? I mean really though. Have you looked at warriors? They have nothing. Outside of one passive trait in Defense that gives 5 seconds of retaliation that no one uses because Defense sucks and is riddled with 300 second CD traits or generally useless ones. Before looking at other much higher performing specs they need to go back and fix the basics.

They have Cleansing Ire, that alone is really strong.

 

Sure Warrior suffers a bit here but it's not like they don't have the tools to deal with that, Resistance was extremely overrated on Mallyx/Revenant in general. I get that there's 300 secs traits, I get that it's ridiculous, but that doesn't mean the traitline is entirely bad.

 

That retaliation on Retribution will see more or less usage when Versed in Stone already exists and have been the superior trait for a while now.

 

If you're not using any of those traits, the only retaliation is from Soothing Stone which is clunky to have because why would you want to be having less condition damage taken after already clearing 5 conditions.

 

All of this begins to feel poorly thought out for Revenant in general when you have Empowering Misery that become the worst healing in the game, Pain Absorption be the worst stunbreak in the game.

 

I'm not saying that like there can't be a worst skill either, that's fine as it was really bad already if not properly used. It's the mechanic and concept behind them that are functionally flawed. The skills just don't work right, it's like giving thief a dark field instead of smoke field on Black Powder, you want to mitigate the pressure entirely because it's your profession and skills function, not a quarter of it that will get you killed because you wasted half your initiative for it.

 

Changing the boons functions isn't really the problem, the lack of reworks within the skills that are based around those boons is.

 

Resolution is a good change, but if were going to change Resistance, Mallyx skills needs to be reworked properly to function as they are intended. Unlike Necromancer, Revenant has no lifeforce and there's no feasible/reliable way to want conditions transfered to self in which it'll ever be useful.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Shao.7236