Jump to content
  • Sign Up

May 11 - Theorycrafting and Discussion


Recommended Posts

On 5/2/2021 at 1:41 PM, Yasai.3549 said:

With changes to Torment, Condi Thief will be an absolute monster.

 

Steal + P/D 3 > Pistol 2 spam

 

This will kill anyone with low Condi cleanse rotation.

hmm? in pve maybe in WvW and sPvP this torment is straight up nerf and turned it into useless 😄

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

P/D deadeye can cycle immob for days if it's built for ini regen, so you're gonna get the higher tick more often than not. Still might be more worth building into poison for WvW still tho. 

no youre not cus any non brain dead guy will dodge that animation thats very obvious, or just cleanse.

torment is dead for these game modes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, reddie.5861 said:

no youre not cus any non brain dead guy will dodge that animation thats very obvious, or just cleanse.

torment is dead for these game modes.

 

Saying "just cleanse" is kinda like saying "just dodge". It's not wrong, but it does over simplify the situation. 

 

Fact is, a trailblazer/viper deadeye can have immob on P/D 2, rifle 2, binding shadow, a venom, and if you're unlucky enough to have been born a ranger, a stolen skill. There are very few builds that can deal with that amount of immob on top of other condis for a prolonged period of time. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

But it is just not worth to use all these immobilize skills when your torment damage consist of 2 stacks torment from shadow strike.

 

Okay DE has a little more up it's sleeve. Nonetheless remains the question wether it is worth to use all your skills on immobilize in order to push torment damage. You would be better off using other damage skills.

Edited by FelsPinguin.5902
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, FelsPinguin.5902 said:

But it is just not worth to use all these immobilize skills when your torment damage consist of 2 stacks torment from shadow strike.

 

Okay DE has a little more up it's sleeve. Nonetheless remains the question wether it is worth to use all your skills on immobilize in order to push torment damage. You would be better off using other damage skills.

Torment stacks quite well off Dancing Dagger. The DE version gets more torment but it's so malice dependent for duration (1 second base duration doesn't get much help from expertise). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/12/2021 at 10:01 PM, FelsPinguin.5902 said:

But it is just not worth to use all these immobilize skills when your torment damage consist of 2 stacks torment from shadow strike.

 

Okay DE has a little more up it's sleeve. Nonetheless remains the question wether it is worth to use all your skills on immobilize in order to push torment damage. You would be better off using other damage skills.

 

I'm having a great time roaming on celestial deadeye at the moment. The patch basically gave me 75% condi duration, 100% poison duration and 45% boon duration for free, so I can immob people until they can't break it then unload malice on them with P/D. Yes, torment damage on it's own wouldn't be worth it, but when you add bleeds poison and physical damage it adds up real fast. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

 

I'm having a great time roaming on celestial deadeye at the moment. The patch basically gave me 75% condi duration, 100% poison duration and 45% boon duration for free, so I can immob people until they can't break it then unload malice on them with P/D. Yes, torment damage on it's own wouldn't be worth it, but when you add bleeds poison and physical damage it adds up real fast. 

Do you feel like the torment bonus from a stationary target comes into play enough to force some thought under pressure like before on movement? Or is Torment basically just another condition?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

Do you feel like the torment bonus from a stationary target comes into play enough to force some thought under pressure like before on movement? Or is Torment basically just another condition?

The old torment was a lot easier to get the full damage as moving is something that every character does, now the onus is on you to force them to stop so you kinda need to build high immob duration or have good CC to get the full tick. I'd say it depends on the target and how easy it is to lock them down, obviously against a daredevil you're not gonna keep them still for long enough but against a ranger or necro, once you burn through the usual cleanses and immob breaks you can lock them down pretty easy. If you're roaming with a CC heavy ally like a spellbreaker or a holosmith you're definitely going to get enough use out of it, and it is a very nice change vs stuff like tower lords, I'm pretty sure my cele build now has better DPS than my old trailblazer build with thorns runes in that situation.

 

In this build it's pretty much another condition, but that's more because this is cele so it's dependant on might stacks etc. A full trailblazer build with torment runes may get better results, but even then you were better off DPS wise going thorns runes pre patch, so I'd think of it as a secondary damage source. Nice to have, needs investment to make the most of, but not the meat of a build. 

Edited by Jugglemonkey.8741
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to get torment new version to do meaningful damage  use p/d b with pressure strike and rely on the build of torment with the poison on s/b. S/b does significant damage in condition now and coupled with p/d and torment runes makes all of bleed/torment and poison meaningful. Don't ignore SB. Overall it might be a better torment dealer then p/d.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, babazhook.6805 said:

If you want to get torment new version to do meaningful damage  use p/d b with pressure strike and rely on the build of torment with the poison on s/b. S/b does significant damage in condition now and coupled with p/d and torment runes makes all of bleed/torment and poison meaningful. Don't ignore SB. Overall it might be a better torment dealer then p/d.


Can you clarify how Shortbow is being used as a better torment dealer than P/D?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

You use Pressure strike In SB and then a whole lot of the enhanced 3 second poison field for the daze. Each initial shot of the sb will get the same 2 stacks on a daze plus poison. Bleed is now there on #1 and there poison access.

 

SB poison field hits multiple targets so you can apply more torment overall and if you use Pressure strike with torment runes you getting multiple heals.

 

I am talking WvW.

 

Now if you want to keep SOH , much harder to do with the revamped deadly ambush, pressure strike can also apply torment on those steals. You can certainly do those with P/d as well but in WvW sometimes it hard to close on a group when they got all those red circles up. Also If I stand inside a gate and hit people with SB #3 with pressure strike as they man rams the damage out is very decent. They pull off the rams much earlier with new torment.

 

It also deadlier with torment change casting this on a person who might be trying to rez a downed comrade. Rotate poison field with the new #1 and you apply torment/bleed poison players in the field.

Edited by babazhook.6805
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, babazhook.6805 said:

You use Pressure strike In SB and then a whole lot of the enhanced 3 second poison field for the daze. Each initial shot of the sb will get the same 2 stacks on a daze plus poison. Bleed is now there on #1 and there poison access.

 

SB poison field hits multiple targets so you can apply more torment overall and if you use Pressure strike with torment runes you getting multiple heals.

 

I am talking WvW.

 

Now if you want to keep SOH , much harder to do with the revamped deadly ambush, pressure strike can also apply torment on those steals. You can certainly do those with P/d as well but in WvW sometimes it hard to close on a group when they got all those red circles up. Also If I stand inside a gate and hit people with SB #3 with pressure strike as they man rams the damage out is very decent. They pull off the rams much earlier with new torment.

 

It also deadlier with torment change casting this on a person who might be trying to rez a downed comrade. Rotate poison field with the new #1 and you apply torment/bleed poison players in the field.


Does Pressure Strike work on disable or interrupt? I thought it was niche because it required interrupting the target. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, saerni.2584 said:


Does Pressure Strike work on disable or interrupt? I thought it was niche because it required interrupting the target. 

Pretty sure it's interrupt, but choking gas is still pretty strong for that given it's unblockable. It's not nearly as strong as the old pulsing version was, but that would be all kinds of OP now that torment does double damage to stationary targets. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

It is interrupt but I have found that it triggers often enough and especially in situations where it not 1 V 1. SB received significant tweaks. I have found since changes that I am switching to SB more often then I did before. The #1 on SB has that bounce. That 3 second poison field adds more poison.

 

I have found that when comparing p/d to SB , SB Tends to do the same or better with Torment damage , more overall poison damage but less bleeds then P/d. It hard to make a concrete assessment as to which delivers more damage overall simply due to the fact that SB has that bounce and the fields for AOE where P/d does not. the Deadly ambush skill is still something I am exploring as I am want to couple that with Potent poison which means going Deadly Arts?shadow arts and Trickery. It might be focusing on just more bleeds overall the way to go just to maximize that damage.

 

I was fighting earlier in some zerg fights where enemy forces up on walls or below a wall and the Choking gas field was very useful against them.

 

I suspect that in a 1v1 P/d preferred.

Edited by babazhook.6805
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, babazhook.6805 said:

It is interrupt but I have found that it triggers often enough and especially in situations where it not 1 V 1. SB received significant tweaks. I have found since changes that I am switching to SB more often then I did before. The #1 on SB has that bounce. That 3 second poison field adds more poison.

 

I have found that when comparing p/d to SB , SB Tends to do the same or better with Torment damage , more overall poison damage but less bleeds then P/d. It hard to make a concrete assessment as to which delivers more damage overall simply due to the fact that SB has that bounce and the fields for AOE where P/d does not. the Deadly ambush skill is still something I am exploring as I am want to couple that with Potent poison which means going Deadly Arts?shadow arts and Trickery. It might be focusing on just more bleeds overall the way to go just to maximize that damage.

 

I was fighting earlier in some zerg fights where enemy forces up on walls or below a wall and the Choking gas field was very useful against them.

 

I suspect that in a 1v1 P/d preferred.


Yeah that makes sense to me. I've been theory crafting out PvE builds mostly using the changes. 
 

My WvW build hasn't changed much just because the synergies are much better for my play style. 
 

I do agree though in general about Shortbow. It's much better now at cleave damage in combo with Choking Gas. The aftercast reduction did wonders for making it feels very smooth and the bleed stacking from bounces is really nice for clusters. It's worth saving some initiative rather than using it for cluster bombs, and just auto attacking into a choking gas while waiting for initiative to regen (without losing damage potential).

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...