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Champions - Judgement is a Disgrace! *contains spoilers*


Trigarta.3841

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Having waited to have a proper battle against a full-sized Primordus since finishing GW1 EoTN, his 30 minute ending in this episode after showing up only twice for 5 seconds prior to it was entirely disappointing. Not even a mini-trailer for EoD at the end like before PoF. 😢😢😢

 

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19 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

As an encounter the Dragonstorm instance is fine. Pretty standard stuff but OK.

 

As a release, Chapter 4 was even more threadbare than the previous 3 threadbare Champions releases.

 

As part of the overall GW2 Elder Dragon plot it was appalling.

 

After the prologue of the IBS I had hoped that the saga would have a long path that ended with Bangar awakening both Jormag and Primordus and leading us into an expansion that brought us both to the northern Shiverpeaks and down into the depths of Tyria. An expansion where we dealt with the threat of the twin Elder Dragons in an epic adventure that took up the expansion and the following LS season 6. Instead they threw away two Elder Dragons just to have them done with. A box ticking exercise. Something to get out of the way so we can go to Cantha.

 

This has been a massive disappointment for me. Primordus especially, deserved so much better, he was the first Elder Dragon we heard of, way back in GW1.

 

Instead we're going to travel away to Cantha for more human based GW1 nostalgia. Given how little care or interest they've shown to the GW1 lore I have very little faith in that expansion either.

Dragonstorm is too standard. Nothing compared to Dragons Stand and Dragonfall (which came with their own maps, not just an instance). The fights against Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik were epic in scope. Dragonstorm is just fighting Braham and Ryland for a bit and then booping each dragon on the nose until they attack each other.

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18 hours ago, Perisemiotics.4579 said:

well technically if you mean the end of all dragons, we'd have to lose our skyscales as well 😛 Aurene is special and different from the original six elders, and there's Kuunavang too, is she going to die as well?

The skyscales aren't elder dragons that are a danger to Tyria. If they or any other one of them can become an elder dragon, then yes, hopefully it's extinction for dragons.

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54 minutes ago, Trigarta.3841 said:

Dragonstorm is too standard. Nothing compared to Dragons Stand and Dragonfall (which came with their own maps, not just an instance). The fights against Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik were epic in scope. Dragonstorm is just fighting Braham and Ryland for a bit and then booping each dragon on the nose until they attack each other.

 

It's a bit "Bad dragons! Down! Get down! You know you're not allowed on the ley lines!" 

 

It doesn't seem to have any effect on them, so I don't think we can really be accused of dragon cruelty. 

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If they needed more funding they should've made IBS an actual paid expansion. We would have bought it if it brought us quality content and actual 'expansion level content'. Now that term doesn't mean much anymore.

 

also there was WAY too much talking in IBS. I love the overflowing amount of voice acting in this game, but if they took half of that money they spent on voice acting and put it towards good story writing it would've been a better balance.

Edited by Miss Sugarific.8471
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I honestly feel that the GuildWars community, especially players like me who have been playing since GuildWars1, deserve an explanation from ARENANET.

 

An explanation on why, after all these years, waiting to see and experience Primordus, to experience his realm, was killed off in 30 minutes? 

 

The dragon was the main antagonist for the GW2 world, he really did not deserve to be killed off like that! There was so much potential for the GW universe, and so much things that were ignored, such as the eternal battle between the dwarves and destroyers, and how the asura lost their homes because of Primordus. How did this idea got approved? 

 

Referring to the ending of EOTN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg9eXcXsMTI - this is the quality of story content I boast to others, about how the guild wars universe is intriguing and special. But after this episode, I really feel disappointed. 

 

I only hope that Arenanet will redeem themselves in End of Dragons...

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I understand the frustration regarding Jormag dying, but why is Primordus dying such a big deal to everyone? Sure, it's been around since EotN, but let's face it, it's literally just a feral, dumb animal at its core. It's hard if not impossible to make a compelling and long-lasting villain out of something like that. Eventually it just had to go in order to open up room for more stories and plotlines. And considering that it couldn't die without Jormag dying along with it, they had to go down together. 

 

I do agree that the way they both died was rushed though. There should have been an epic battle between them while we fought to stop Braham and Ryland and stabilize the leylines. Still, I personally don't think that them both dying at the same time was a bad idea. 

 

I hope their death will open up new possibilities for the story and bring about many new interesting stories and plots that the writers will be able to explore and present to us. This might have been a terribly rushed ending, but there's still time to fix things and make the most of what is there. 

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2 hours ago, Uruk.3215 said:

I understand the frustration regarding Jormag dying, but why is Primordus dying such a big deal to everyone? Sure, it's been around since EotN, but let's face it, it's literally just a feral, dumb animal at its core. It's hard if not impossible to make a compelling and long-lasting villain out of something like that. Eventually it just had to go in order to open up room for more stories and plotlines. And considering that it couldn't die without Jormag dying along with it, they had to go down together.

He only became that feral dumb dragon with the IBS.

Before, he wasn't that much characterized. We didn't explore him that much.
However, everything we have seen him do, hinted at something more than a feral beast.

Saying "he was just dumb and feral and thus uninteresting" goes against everything the other dragons have been shown us.
Even Krakaltorik who went mad at the end, was that way because of too much magic.

Not forgetting the whole conection to several other storylines that dragon had, that are no completly cut off.
The dwarfs who "make a cameo" in the IBS fought a lifelong war against him and ended up being nothing more than a footnote.

The dragons were supposed to be larger than life, forces of nature. Anet changed that throughout the development, giving them more personality to be more engaging.

Here, they litteraly went and killed of "the most important" dragon of the franchise, without giving him the same treatment as everyone else.

Which is doubly annoying, since we now go to Cantha for the "last one", the elusive water dragon. The one we don't know anything about, because Anet thought it was sooo much fun to tease us about everything about him.
Now we go there and that dragon will get more care and story than Primordus. That is for certain.

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1 hour ago, Jaken.6801 said:



Which is doubly annoying, since we now go to Cantha for the "last one", the elusive water dragon. The one we don't know anything about, because Anet thought it was sooo much fun to tease us about everything about him.
Now we go there and that dragon will get more care and story than Primordus. That is for certain.

 

I agree with everything you said except here.  They literally had all that lore to work with to make Primordus THE big bad we needed to really fight against.  The ground work (no pun intended) was all there.  Instead they are banking on any of us caring on whit about bubbles just because they are taking the story to Cantha, all while showing and obvious disdain for the established the narrative.  At this point I'm waiting for the final cut scene of EoD being the NPCs from GW1 waking up after the final fight from EoTN with Ogden standing over them and telling them it was all a dream.  I'm not even joking.

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Braham got a happy ending protected by a plot armor made of ancient dragon scales. SPOILER ALERT  For me it would have made more sense if both the chosen ones would have died with their dragons insted of only the "bad one" that would have made the story had more... I dunno weight?  all that talk about how dangerous that fight was going to be and no one got hurt with a Disney happy ending... dissapointed...

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On 5/2/2021 at 1:35 PM, Uruk.3215 said:

I understand the frustration regarding Jormag dying, but why is Primordus dying such a big deal to everyone? Sure, it's been around since EotN, but let's face it, it's literally just a feral, dumb animal at its core. It's hard if not impossible to make a compelling and long-lasting villain out of something like that. Eventually it just had to go in order to open up room for more stories and plotlines. And considering that it couldn't die without Jormag dying along with it, they had to go down together. 

A lot of people (including myself) were expecting Primordus to get its own expansion (likely after EoD) since the end of EoTN, based on the depths of Tyria and interacting with the races that used to live there. Instead we got a 20 minute mini-fight where we don't even fight Primordus directly. If they did want to do a Jormag and Primordus kill each other plot like they did, there should have been at least two or three full episodes (not Champions quarter episodes) involving Primordus doing some kind of real damage and having some kind of buildup to that battle. The only buildup we got was a last second, out of nowhere decision that could have just as easily been made in episode 1 of the Saga.

 

Really hoping they handle the DsD properly after this...

Edited by Poormany.4507
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1 hour ago, Altion.9576 said:

Braham got a happy ending protected by a plot armor made of ancient dragon scales. SPOILER ALERT  For me it would have made more sense if both the chosen ones would have died with their dragons insted of only the "bad one" that would have made the story had more... I dunno weight?  all that talk about how dangerous that fight was going to be and no one got hurt with a Disney happy ending... dissapointed...


Braham is the chosen one. But I think he will also have a role to play in the expansion judging by the concept art. And who else are they going to bring in at this point?

But I think they should have altered him somehow. I mean, they could have had him face drastic physical consequences from it and have permanent physical corruption. Then after Primordus dies they could have had him offering himself to be branded by Aurene as a way to heal. And Taimi, if she's still suffering from the medical condition, could potentially do the same.

This way, at some point moving forward, we could have the whole cast of Dragon's Watch be "Champions" of Aurene. But I guess it's just the Commander and Caithe.. for some reason.. who's just off doing whatever Caithe does only to show up randomly at pivotal points in the plot. 

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7 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

 

Really hoping they handle the DsD properly after this...

 

The DsD needs to be handled really well in order for people to care about it. For me at the moment it's the least interesting dragon out of them all because it has no lore behind it. Have we ever seen it? No. Has it ever caused damage in Tyria? No, we only hear that the quaggan and largos ran away from it. Do we see its minions? No.

 

We know almost nothing about it. And if I'm gonna play a game that has a new story, not related to what happened in the entire game's lore, I'd rather play another game. At the moment I'm still in the denial phase and I hope that Primordus and Jormag or at least Primordus got away somehow and we'll get to find out later.

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10 hours ago, PookieDaWombat.6209 said:

 

I agree with everything you said except here.  They literally had all that lore to work with to make Primordus THE big bad we needed to really fight against.  The ground work (no pun intended) was all there.  Instead they are banking on any of us caring on whit about bubbles just because they are taking the story to Cantha, all while showing and obvious disdain for the established the narrative.  At this point I'm waiting for the final cut scene of EoD being the NPCs from GW1 waking up after the final fight from EoTN with Ogden standing over them and telling them it was all a dream.  I'm not even joking.

That's what I mean.
Why should we care about Bubbles?
We know not really a lot about him, because every time he comes up, Anet swoops in and goes "not today my friend".

That's why I said, that it's doubly annoying. It's the "look we have Elder Dragon at home" meme.

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Very short and nothing people have already theorized will happen. 
Rythlock imo, should have died there, as predictable as that may be. 

Ryland would be sent to jail or some shyt or executed, but Crecia will most likely pull some strings to keep him alive.
Then we could have Ryland back in future expansions, but I guess that's over. 

Rythlock is getting older, and not any stronger, and keeping him alive till that point comes will just make us watch a beloved character wilt into an old man with a walking stick. 

 

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On 5/1/2021 at 5:34 AM, Thereon.3495 said:

This is where the praise ends. I honestly feel cheated- you cannot and should not ever end a decade long arc with a 30 minute patch and a 30 second cutscene.

A decade? I played Eye of the North 14 years ago as the absolutely epic ending cutscene shows us Primordius waking up, narrates the Dwarves descending into the earth, shows Livia finding the Scepter of Orr, and the growth of the future Pale Tree.

 

I was hoping they learned their lesson after that absolute travesty of storytelling that was the Mursaat ending/Lazarus ending in S3E6. I see they did not. Honestly I hope EOD can be good return to form as many of us have wanted to return to Cantha for a decade now, but I'm firmly in a wait and see mode with this expansion at this point.

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On 5/2/2021 at 1:11 PM, Yggranya.5201 said:

The skyscales aren't elder dragons that are a danger to Tyria. If they or any other one of them can become an elder dragon, then yes, hopefully it's extinction for dragons.

Since the Elder Dragons appeared, the Lore somehow started to get all fuzzy about the existence of the Draconic race in Tyria. From GW1 (and from the fact that Zhaitan's lieutenants are all risen dragons, which means they were very much living dragons before they got corrupted) we know that there was a lot of dragons out there at some point in history. With only some of them (Glint) having anything to do with EDs (Rotscale, and all the other undead dragons in gw1, were not Risen.

Edited by Astralporing.1957
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7 hours ago, Faridah.8431 said:

A decade? I played Eye of the North 14 years ago as the absolutely epic ending cutscene shows us Primordius waking up, narrates the Dwarves descending into the earth, shows Livia finding the Scepter of Orr, and the growth of the future Pale Tree.

 

I was hoping they learned their lesson after that absolute travesty of storytelling that was the Mursaat ending/Lazarus ending in S3E6. I see they did not. Honestly I hope EOD can be good return to form as many of us have wanted to return to Cantha for a decade now, but I'm firmly in a wait and see mode with this expansion at this point.

Let's look at the bright side: With IBS's terrible writing, writing back Mursaat into the story after the dragons are dead by saying "The ones in GW1 were just a Vanguard, now with the dragons gone, there is nothing to stop Mursaat superiority!" as they start phasing back into Tyria would actually be an improvement.

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