I would play GW2 more if it was a subscription-based MMO. [MERGED]

[phreeak.1023]

GW2 as subscription based game would be dead within a year. 

 

What they could do is going a ESO-ish route. GW2 still be f2p/b2p but with a GW+ premium membership for x € or $/month and while active , all addons and living world episodes are free. They could give people each month a special free GW2+ currency and a shop to spend them on. 

 

800 GW+ points free each month and a mount skins f.e cost 1500, Outfit 900, unbreakable harvesting tools 1600.

 

All released shop skins should be available without rotation. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by phreeak.1023

[Dami.5046]

The worst thing would be this game being given to a publisher, with anet just sending out bug fixes. Then you might get your 'sub'. I would be careful what you wish for.

[Obtena.7952]

9 hours ago, Riaenvyr.2091 said:

Wouldn't say it's any personal value attached by people to the items, no matter the way of acquisition, but, rather, on one hand, as I've illustrated with the capes example in the previous post, anything bought from the Gem Store tends to be much more impressive, both in the intricate design and the blinding potential, and, on the other hand, the idea of "the path, not the destination" - what is a player required to do to acquire the item.
And even all of these vary from person to person; I'm not a fan of ostentatious opulence, and any achievement only holds value for me until I find another one, but Malitias mentioned that some people like to show off with their accomplishments, and if that makes them happy, who am I to judge a priest?

Your argument of gold being a universal currency is completely sound, exactly as the idea that there's a myriad of ways of earning it, but from what I've gathered from Aodlop's posts, the main wish is getting tangibly rewarded for things like, say, slaying Liadri or Turai Ossa during the Festival of the Four Winds - goals that already are in the game, award "The Blazing Light" title and a mini of Liadri, and "Kingslayer" title, respectively - not necessarily for the shinies, but for the active engagement with the game, for trying to outsmart it and prevail.

Sure, I might be inclined to accept a challenge just because I enjoy pushing the limit, but a reward at the end always makes even the initial decision that much more tantalizing for basically anybody, regardless of how much actual use the reward is going to get.
Hell, I had about ten more than a hundred mounts back in Wrath when the final achiev was for 100, and I still used, what, two? Midnight as the ground one, Razorscale for flight. Gorgeous girls, those two. Utterly gorgeous.

Doesn't mean we should go black-and-white on the issue, however, by any means.
I can imagine a sizeable discount ticket on a specific item and/or a smaller discount on a category of items attainable through achievements would stir the waters, for example, even without said specific item being in the Gem Store yet.
Looks good at start, looks better over time, and is as hideously exploitative as everything in the industry!
What's not to love for an MMORPG?
 

 

Ahhh, haven't read the entire thing! Shame on You!
W1 - as in the only two buttons needed: move forward and spam auto-attacks; basically running around in zergs.

No, I guess what I mean is that I'm not bringing 'W1' gameplay into this discussion, so it's not clear why you mentioned it. I mean, if gamplay is W1 in this game, I have no doubt that's intended by Anet's targeted audience in the market ... much the same way the GS decision targets the same market and much the same way this game may not have as many tangible rewards for content as most people are used to. 

 

Anyways, if what you say is correct: Aodlop main wish is getting tangibly rewarded for things like, say, slaying Liadri or Turai Ossa during the Festival of the Four Winds ... then his approach to doing so is completely misguided in this thread because more tangible rewards wouldn't necessarily require a rework of the current business model and whatever he's pining for in the GS that he wants isn't likely to become ingame content rewards.

 

The bottomline here is that regardless of how shiny or appropriate GS items are ... any 'sense of fulfillment' by owning one is mostly false, so no one shouldn't be using that to argue GS should go away so those items can be earned as rewards ingame. 

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, phreeak.1023 said:

GW2 as subscription based game would be dead within a year. 

 

What they could do is going a ESO-ish route. GW2 still be f2p/b2p but with a GW+ premium membership for x € or $/month and while active , all addons and living world episodes are free. They could give people each month a special free GW2+ currency and a shop to spend them on. 

 

800 GW+ points free each month and a mount skins f.e cost 1500, Outfit 900, unbreakable harvesting tools 1600.

 

All released shop skins should be available without rotation. 

... but again as I'm sure has been mentioned in the thread, just buy gems every months. 

ESO remains a rather funny example when it comes to subscription though. I mean it's f2p + premium now and they did manage to turn it around sure, but it was subscription on release and crashed and burned within 3 months. Think a subscription brought the money and quality for the game to prosper? Zenimax literally LIED to the community regarding the EU server selection (it was fake, there where no EU servers and they where eventually forced to admit it) and when everyone asked when it was going to be fixed they just waived their arms and went "meh maybe summer?", the PvP mode was totally broken, half the features didnt even work and it was basicly unplayable due to lag (you could spend 10 minutes running to an objective and get nowhere because you warped back 9 meters every 10 meters) and when vampires exploited it they did nothing for a month or so. The game was left to rot and the player count probably dropped to a tenth of what it was on release.

That's what subscription bought us.

[WarTactics.6725]

Hey folks. Since day one the original Guild Wars was founded on the principle that there be no monthly fee. I wonder these days if ArenaNet could offer a premium subscription service that's mutually beneficial for dedicated players and the developers. Say if a dedicated player subscribed for $15-20 USD a month, players would immediately get that full value back in Gems and earn in-game bonuses. From ArenaNet's standpoint I believe it would mean a commitment of dollars coming in every month and players would get full in-game value.  Something premium players could have access to would be a full non-rotating Black Lion Gem-Store Market. Meaning having access to all historical and present gem store items with more interesting sales. Increasing the daily limit of crafting Ectoplasm Refinement from 1 to 3-5? Increased daily log-in rewards? Maybe there's more

 

What does the Guild Wars 2 community think of this? I hope it doesn't seem greedy.

 

Thanks,

WarTactics

[Faline.8795]

I'd be okay with that.  ESO does that.

 

Subscribers get large bag slots and all slots unlocked, unlimited gathering tools, basically convenience items.  And story chapters unlocked if they don't have them already.

 

Since it would be completely optional and provides no P2W features, I am for it.  Those who don't like it can simply choose not to do it.

[Jski.6180]

I do not think enofe ppl want to spend money on this game any more.

[Linken.6345]

So basicly you want more for your money the now optional gem buy each month is not good enough?

 

Edit

 

Maybe this thread could give you some insight OP

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/94982-i-would-play-gw2-more-if-it-was-a-subscription-based-mmo/

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Infusion.7149]

The optional sub idea was sort of implemented already with the Supply Drop requisitions but the selection was more rigid. The only advantage it would net Arenanet is if there was autopay and also bypassing gold to gems, this is how many subscriptions retain people since after auto-pay is enabled some people don't look at their bills every month.
* 2400 to 3000 gems 8th Anniversary Supply Drop Requisition  , 4 weeks long 
* 2400 to 3000 gems War Eternal Supply Drop Requisition , 4 weeks long
* 2400 to 3000 gems New Horizons Supply Drop Requisition , 4 weeks long
I suspect if an optional sub is implemented it will not be to your liking, it would be along the lines of 2400-3000 gems which is $30-38.

Full non-rotating BL market would be a good bonus enough if it's an optional sub. That would make it so that it is worthwhile. However, a large part of the BL store hinges on artificial scarcity and seasonality. Therefore some of the once-a-year items such as Black Lion Backpack and Glider Voucher , Black Lion Finisher Voucher , or Black Lion Glider Voucher would not be offered.

The issue is with the other suggestions, such as increasing daily limits , log-in rewards, or all bag slots unlocked (how would you even expect them to implement this, take away bag slots at the end of the sub?). Something akin to once a month 20% off all single non-combo purchases over 1600 gems (think premium gem mount skin) if subscribed to "premium"/"VIP"/ whatever word they want to call it would be better than that, since they've shown that 20% off is the maximum they're willing to discount gem cards at retailers and that's the average sale on any item. However, a far more likely bonus is discounted living story episodes you missed. Even a 5 BL statuette bonus per month subscribed along with the 2 Heroic Boosters and a Communal Boost Bonfire would be better for those that do not use BL Keys due to being risk averse (in line with Supply Drop Requisition).

Some items that stand out to me:
* Level 80 ticket = 2000 gems (max discount thus far is probably 25%)
* Central Tyria Waypoint package = 2000 gems (max discount was 50%)
* Impending LS1 remake = ?
* LS2 pack = 1600 gems (max discount was 50%)
* LS3 pack = 1600 gems (max discount was 50%)
* LS4 pack = 1200 gems (max discount was 50%)
* LS5 / IBS pack = 1200 gems (max discount was 30%)
* Digital Deluxe upgrade = 2000 gems (max discount was 50%)
* HoT deluxe = 2400 gems (max discount was 50%)
* PoF deluxe = 2400 gems (max discount was 50%)
* Account Jump start = 2000 gems --- this is already a discounted item so it won't be touched (limit 1)
* Elite Reinforcements Package = 3000 gems --- this is a bundle that hasn't been discounted to my knowledge due to already being discounted (limit 2)

Style/Appearance items that aren't a pack:

* 2000 gems Shimmerwing Skyscale Skin (max discount was 30%)

* 2000 gems Shrine Guardian Jackal Skin (max discount was 25%)

* 2000 gems Summit Wildhorn Springer Skin (max discount was 25%) 
* 2000 gems Sun Temple Gecko Springer Skin (max discount was 30%)
* 2000 gems Tremor Armadillo Roller Beetle Skin (max discount was 30%)
* 2000 gems Umbral Demon Skimmer Skin (max discount was 25%)
* 2000 gems War-Torn Marauder Warclaw Skin (max discount was 40%)
* 2000 gems Sacred Pegasus Griffon Skin (max discount was 40%)
* 2000 gems Resplendent Avialan Raptor Skin (max discount was 25%)
* 2000 gems Magnificent Hummingbird Skimmer Skin (max discount was 35%)
* 2000 gems Primal Spirit Jackal Skin (max discount was 30%)
* 2000 gems Reforged Warhound Jackal Skin (max discount was 25%)
* 2000 gems Nightfang Griffon Skin (max discount was 35%)
* 1600 gems Wild Trihorn Raptor Skin (max discount was 40%)
* 1600 gems Mordrem Alpha Jackal Skin (was discounted 40%)
* 1600 gems Super Outlaw Raptor Skin (max discount was 25%)
* 1600 gems Synergetics Gyrocycle Roller Beetle Skin (never was discounted)
* 1600 gems Woodland Sprite Springer Skin (never was discounted)
* 1600 gems Shell Surfer Skimmer Skin (never was discounted)
* 1600 gems Sand Lion Warclaw Skin (never was discounted)
* 1600 gems Roadrunner Raptor Skin (never was discounted)

* 1600 gems Lunar Maned Skyscale Skin (never was discounted)
* 1600 gems Noble Aurochs Jackal Skin (never was discounted)
* 1600 gems Plush Griffon Skin (never was discounted)

A major aspect that would be lucrative is a equipment template pack, honestly. It could be something akin to unlock all equipment templates on a character for a minor discount.

The 2000 gem appearance packs with more than one thing in them to upsell to customers is a similar tactic.

TL;DR:
If an optional sub is implemented expect it to be similar to Supply Drop Requisition: a $30 or 2400 gems minimum cost with communal boost bonfire + 2 heroic booster + 5 BL statuettes.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Danikat.8537]

I don't think having access to everything that's ever been in the gem store would make sense as a subscription benefit. The obvious way for players to use that system is to sign up, get the gems, buy whatever it was they wanted and then immediately cancel the renewal so they don't get charged again until the next time they want something that's not currently available. Unless you want to encourage your own impulse buying there's no reason to keep the subscription up all the time.

 

It also actively discourages Anet from bringing back previous gem store items for general availability because then they're removing a reason to subscribe.

 

More generally I think the idea of an optional subscription would go the same way as Elder Scrolls Online where more and more quality of life fixes and improvements which would otherwise be part of base-game updates get reserved for subscribers, but somehow it's never enough or the right things and some people are always asking for more to be added to justify the money they've already chosen to pay for the current benefits.

 

If it's truly optional then it's not going to be very profitable because many people will choose to go without, to actually be worth doing for both developers and subscribers it has to make playing without it annoying and inconvinient enough that the cost seems justified...for things we would otherwise get as free base game updates.

[Samnang.1879]

Premium subscription should be like this, spend $10 for membership, get $7 worth of gems + in game perks like infusions that are only use-able if you're a premium member and more, like unlimited teleport to friends. 

 

I mean, there are so many ways to make money off of players without feeling like they're getting ripped off, or somehow have advantage over other players. 

 

And premium membership should be entirely optional. Like non premium members get everything that premium members get, except for the cosmetics.

 

.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Samnang.1879

[Thornwolf.9721]

I might also add that when and if I ever get into a sub based game the ONLY thing they get outta me is usually the initial purchase and the sub fee. When I've had my fill I either abandon the game completely (WoW) and never look back, or I simply quit mid sub and cancel. But in the time Im playing they never get more money from me... guild wars 2 actually over time has earned more money from me due to be sub-less. Im more inclined to purchase the expansion, more inclined to get that shiny skin I might like because it doesn't regularly dip into my pocket for admission to the game.

And as stated above, WoW has shown that a sub does not equal quality. Shadowlands as a whole, BFA, WoD all of those were horrible expansions which saw droves quit and while some likely returned/will return many more wont. I Played from WoD to shadowlands, quit halfway through BFA and was Convinced to try again in shadowlands and this was the final nail. 

Ill remember my time in legion fondly back when I had more time, and got to see the full game. Ill remember when it was fun. But the sub has all but assured I'll never return because I will NOT pay to play a game. Especially knowing that likely they will reset the power or take away my progress every expansion. If this game went Sub, Id uninstall and never look back as would my guild and everyone I know personally playing the game.

If you feel like you want to support them monetarily, just by gems every month. There is your sub. Its optional when you buy things from them. Such as unlimited gathering tools, mount skins, costumes ect... no need to enforce it upon everyone. 

[Fueki.4753]

If you want to spend 20 USD on GW2 each month, you can already buy gems.

 

You obviously shouldn't get any bonuses though.

There literally is no reason or benefit to force class division onto the community.

All it would lead to is loss of players due to players hating to be treated as second-class and therefore abandoning the game. And losing players even quicker is the last thing the game needs.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Thornwolf.9721]

Stop, this game wouldn't survive on any form of sub optional or not. It would be seen as greedy and having a big annoying "Hey what about this" whenever you opened the GS would be horrible. I don't play ESO explicitly because of how they do expansions, and their optional sub. (Its so expensive to buy the expansions, just pay the sub and have all the content.) No thanks. 

[Sobx.1758]

Nah, just buy $20 worth of gems every month.

[Seteruss.4058]

Thank you but no thank you. 

I love the game as is and cause i don't have the headache to play because a subscription is running. B2P is great and believe me, i've spend some money because of the low cost of the game for all those years i'm in.

 

So is a big no for me. 

 

[Khisanth.2948]

53 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

All it would lead to is loss of players due to players hating to be treated as second-class and therefore abandoning the game. And losing players even quicker is the last thing the game needs.

and anyone paying $20 is going to be more expectant of content that gets delivered ...

 

What about that $20 of gems you are getting? It's there but I don't think human psychology would work in ANet's favor.

 

On the other hand OP's suggested "benefits" are worthless to me anyway so I don't care.

[Ashen.2907]

I spend significantly more than $20 per month as is. I would stop spending money on the game if the OP's suggestion were implemented.

[WarTactics.6725]

Would my concept be too similar to a season pass?

[kharmin.7683]

Please stop with the subscription model threads.  If a player wants to subscribe to GW2, there already exists a method by which they may do so. They may purchase gems on a monthly basis, in any denomination that they prefer.

 

I don't believe that it would be a good idea to split the community into those who have a "premium" account and those who don't.  Pretty sure Anet doesn't either; else, they would have done so.

 

One can also use the forums search feature to read the numerous threads that already exist on this topic.

Edited May 9, 2021 by kharmin.7683

[Naxos.2503]

I wont support any subscription service. As far as I'm concerned, it's part of those predatory practices that keeps some people feeling miserable because they may want to leave, but feel they'd waste their subscription if they do.

[Zephire.8049]

Subscriptions (and season passes) are predatory and not needed and I would absolutely quite GW2 if it brought in a subscription of any kind.

 

You can already pay $5/$10/$15/$20/$50 a month on gems to get personal benefits while also giving Arenanet more money without creating a class divide and incentivizing design decisions that funnel people into a subscription for basic QoL features and punish those who cannot afford a subscription.

 

The current model brings in all the money they need as far as we know and like you said, GW1 was founded on being subscription-free and GW2 is also founded on that principle. To change it nearly 9 years into the life of a game and go back on what they promised nearly two decades ago would be a great way to torpedo their loyal customers while not having enough new customers come in to replace them as player retention has been an issue for as long as GW2 has been out.

[WarTactics.6725]

Its a big hypothetical which can be frustrating. I just wished ArenaNet had the capacity to release major expansions every 2 years. Encouraging dedicated players to spend some dough every month may help the business side of ArenaNet so that we may experience more frequent major content. I think as long as the optional subscription service is offering non-pay-to-win goodies that doesn't create a massive divide between casuals and dedicated players it would keep the peace in the Guild Wars 2 community.

Edited May 9, 2021 by WarTactics.6725

[Dondarrion.2748]

As a player you've got more flexibility to get what you want by just buying gems for $20/month and then either save or spend on the items you want. Offers come and go, items come and go... those sub schemes also don't sound very lucrative to Anet; you pay for the gems and get them back but you're also supposed to get extra stuff?

 

I think the aforementioned Supply Requisition Drops were the closest we got, and some of those were pretty good value deals but again, I got a lot of garbage I didn't exactly plan on getting.

[Zeivu.3615]

If you want a sub, go crack open the CHINESE client.