Where's the Benchmark for the LO nerf?

[Firebeard.1746]

Seriously. Power tempest, is situational at best, especially compare to power weaver. Reading the Lightning Orb nerf was a slap in the face. I asked one of my guildies who does our training runs and has a static that can kill things super fast, "is this justified at all?" answer was a flat-out no (and they completely support the pchrono nerf). Anet needs to explain more and/or buff the power DPS of tempest in another place if this is really an issue.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Jski.6180]

Benchmark for every thing on ele is if the skills on ele its getting nerfed because anet hates ele.

[Infusion.7149]

Snowcrows' video has a dps log with lightning orb making up ~21% of the power tempest DPS (i.e. ~838K damage or ~8K DPS). That is on a large hitbox. 
If a ~37.6K log has ~8K DPS from lightning orb and the skill is reduced from 0.45 to 0.36 coefficient (20% lower) then expect a ~35-36K benchmark depending on how you want to calculate it.

[Nephalem.8921]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Snowcrows' video has a dps log with lightning orb making up ~21% of the power tempest DPS (i.e. ~838K damage or ~8K DPS). That is on a large hitbox. 
If a ~37.6K log has ~8K DPS from lightning orb and the skill is reduced from 0.45 to 0.36 coefficient (20% lower) then expect a ~35-36K benchmark depending on how you want to calculate it.

Thats a meme build though since it requires a massive hitbox that doesnt exist in the game besides the golem.

The realistic value is a lot lower. Especially because adds can eat LO hits.

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Thats a meme build though since it requires a massive hitbox that doesnt exist in the game besides the golem.

The realistic value is a lot lower. Especially because adds can eat LO hits.

Feel free to provide a better estimate.

[Nephalem.8921]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Feel free to provide a better estimate.

What i wanted to say is that it is kind of a golem only build since it doesn't really work on real bosses.

It loses already a lot of LO hits in a real scenario and the nerf will just make a mediocre build even worse. They could have buffed air overload to make it decent. Its just carried by LO on golem which is probably the only area where it seems decent.

There is not a single boss where its good currently.

They even nerfed power weaver which saw close to no play at all. They nerfed it even harder than holo for some reason.

[Infusion.7149]

Okay so your post is only to whine about how elementalist is nerfed instead of actually answering the original question...

News flash, it isn't just elementalist that is nerfed.

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Okay so your post is only to whine about how elementalist is nerfed instead of actually answering the original question...

News flash, it isn't just elementalist that is nerfed.

But its every update ele has been nerfed even if there are other classes that got nerfed alone with it. This update nerfed every one who cant produces rental and who dose not have anet favor.

 

It dose not make it right that ele got nerfed once agen even if other classes where nerfed.

[Nephalem.8921]

6 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Okay so your post is only to whine about how elementalist is nerfed instead of actually answering the original question...

News flash, it isn't just elementalist that is nerfed.

Show me a logs with tempest reaching these values on real bosses. They dont exist. The massive hitbox option shouldnt even exist it just inflates this benchmark.

Sadly gw2 doesnt have something like wowlog or fflogs since raidar went down. Golem benchmark are not useful in some cases. Especially if the big hitbox golem has easily twice the hitbox size of the biggest boss.

[Infusion.7149]

It is quite clear this patch they want to push conditions to the forefront across all classes in PVE.

Did I suggest the nerf was justified? I did not, even in the main thread I noted that it was a seemingly random change to lighting orb when in actuality most situations it is not a top class.

[Axl.8924]

Its definitely true about the golems its sorta like patchwerk in wow.

 

Its used to give a gestimate of how much damage you can do in "Theory" 

 

and with nerf to meteor why bring tempest at all over  weaver?

 

They need to add more large targets where aoes fit in and give tempest a niche to fit in for certain bosses.

 

 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

They need to stop balancing classes from imaginary numbers or golem benchmarks made by uber players.

What makes it ridiculous : they claim that power, condi and support elem specs are in good place; ... hmm okai !? Why not !? But they give no proof, they don't explain the future changes, while on other class you can see a long list, what will be the changes, what they expect the class will be.

 

May be, and I hope it for equal regard on each classes, the Balance Update will add a lot of changes to elem;  and they were lazy or not convinced until now; but for now when you read the preview it looks like they have no clue what is the current state of elem "Elem ?? Mhh yeah, good place i think... because ...warhorn is may be ....  hmmm... Have you seen Scrapper ? I have an idea to evolve the spec." and they just they just went to the next class.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Firebeard.1746]

17 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

What i wanted to say is that it is kind of a golem only build since it doesn't really work on real bosses.

It loses already a lot of LO hits in a real scenario and the nerf will just make a mediocre build even worse. They could have buffed air overload to make it decent. Its just carried by LO on golem which is probably the only area where it seems decent.

There is not a single boss where its good currently.

They even nerfed power weaver which saw close to no play at all. They nerfed it even harder than holo for some reason.

I was concerned about power weaver too, but it actually generates a fair amount of condi, so the change to the full attunement is still kind of buffing the damage, so I'm expecting a 2-3% DPS loss. I could be wrong.

[mindcircus.1506]

Arenanet does not nerf or buff based on the golem benchmarks from a speed-run raid guild.

[Jski.6180]

7 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Arenanet does not nerf or buff based on the golem benchmarks from a speed-run raid guild.

What do they nerf and buff based on then? Often there seems to be no reason to any thing they do and this is more true for the ele class any thing else in the game. Seeing how tempest is also a good support too.

[mindcircus.1506]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

What do they nerf and buff based on then? Often there seems to be no reason to any thing they do and this is more true for the ele class any thing else in the game. Seeing how tempest is also a good support too.

Off internal data.

[Jski.6180]

4 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Off internal data.

So what the player base what anet is doing or base off of what the player base is doing because both way have massive rooms for byieset. Like making used effect more likely to get buffed because they are part of the game more so then non used skills giving anet the bigger bang for the update time. There by making these skills more used over all making a cyclical that we see in the current balancing where over power skills getting more and more buffs and more and more power creep.

[mindcircus.1506]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

So what the player base what anet is doing or base off of what the player base is doing because both way have massive rooms for byieset. Like making used effect more likely to get buffed because they are part of the game more so then non used skills giving anet the bigger bang for the update time. There by making these skills more used over all making a cyclical that we see in the current balancing where over power skills getting more and more buffs and more and more power creep.

Your grammar renders this post unreadable.

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Your grammar renders this post unreadable.

Anet buffing skills that are used more often because they will effect the game more there by making already over used skills more used and lesser used skill lesser used.

[Nephalem.8921]

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I was concerned about power weaver too, but it actually generates a fair amount of condi, so the change to the full attunement is still kind of buffing the damage, so I'm expecting a 2-3% DPS loss. I could be wrong.

Its gonna be closer to a 4.5% nerf. The holo nerf in comparision will just be 2-3%. Cweaver will just be completely ridiculous and close to 44k though

Edited May 2, 2021 by Nephalem.8921

[WindBlade.8749]

On 5/2/2021 at 7:28 AM, Nephalem.8921 said:

Show me a logs with tempest reaching these values on real bosses. They dont exist. The massive hitbox option shouldnt even exist it just inflates this benchmark.

Sadly gw2 doesnt have something like wowlog or fflogs since raidar went down. Golem benchmark are not useful in some cases. Especially if the big hitbox golem has easily twice the hitbox size of the biggest boss.

you know there is a new raidar 🙂

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/

We can take vg for exemple:
Average weaver is 14k dps.

Average tempest is 7k dps.....

If we look at best dps on vg:

Best weaver dps is 25k dps
Best tempest is 13k dps.

 

 

And that before the future patch.

Also reaper have a better dps just to show how tempest dps is kitten.

 

Even on KC the only bos were tempest is good because it's the only boss in this entire game which have a huge hitbox, well it's still less good than reaper and weaver (even less good than herald and scrapper dps).

 

[WindBlade.8749]

On 5/3/2021 at 1:30 AM, Nephalem.8921 said:

Its gonna be closer to a 4.5% nerf. The holo nerf in comparision will just be 2-3%. Cweaver will just be completely ridiculous and close to 44k though

hmhm to protect cweaver, the actual cweaver is already really hard to play and not usful on everyboss because of various reason, also you can get kittened by being behind your rotation by 0.2s.

And the bench is 38k, the famous "41k" rotation is only on big hitbox on daguer daguer, which is impossible to play on real boss since you dash every 3 skills, so yea, don't nerf cweaver because of a rotation that you can't use anywhere except on MO.

Edited May 6, 2021 by WindBlade.8749

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

1 hour ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

you know there is a new raidar 🙂

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/

We can take vg for exemple:
Average weaver is 14k dps.

Average tempest is 7k dps.....

If we look at best dps on vg:

Best weaver dps is 25k dps
Best tempest is 13k dps.

 

 

And that before the future patch.

Also reaper have a better dps just to show how tempest dps is kitten.

 

Even on KC the only bos were tempest is good because it's the only boss in this entire game which have a huge hitbox, well it's still less good than reaper and weaver (even less good than herald and scrapper dps).

 

 

 

Thanks for the website.

Amazing; reaper has better records than weaver on some bosses, lol. Or scrapper over tempest !

But yeah, sad to see tempest is one of the worst DPS spec overall in practice. Next nerf to LO seems a bit curious.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[AliamRationem.5172]

16 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

 

Thanks for the website.

Amazing; reaper has better records than weaver on some bosses, lol. Or scrapper over tempest !

But yeah, sad to see tempest is one of the worst DPS spec overall in practice. Next nerf to LO seems a bit curious.

 

Sounds like we're getting another offhand for EoD.  Wouldn't want lightning orb to steal the show.  How do you guys like the sound of torch?

[WindBlade.8749]

2 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

 

Thanks for the website.

Amazing; reaper has better records than weaver on some bosses, lol. Or scrapper over tempest !

But yeah, sad to see tempest is one of the worst DPS spec overall in practice. Next nerf to LO seems a bit curious.

i think they just looked at SC bench and din't even take in fact it's was in huge hitbox, they don't want dps to be at 38k. (but that only on gigantic hitbox the tempest 38k...  everything outside that it's kitten)