Please make the world bosses harder

[Hesione.9412]

With the power (condi! again) creep we've seen, especially since PoF was released, the Tyria world bosses are now too easy.

 

For example, the ones with pre-events such as the Shatterer have most of the player base waiting at the wp while only a few players are doing the pre-event. Examples could include:

increase the number of siege engine pieces required by the number of people on the map

decrease the respawn timer for the krait who come to attack the batteries and mega-laser in Tequatl, make the event completely fail if a battery or the laser is destroyed

 

Basically, the events aren't "world boss" events. They've become mindless "hit the same skill over and over and don't even look up mechanics" activities. World bosses should be world bosses. The lack of attention to the mechanics of the events should be penalised.

[mindcircus.1506]

11 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

With the power (condi! again) creep we've seen, especially since PoF was released, the Tyria world bosses are now too easy.

 

For example, the ones with pre-events such as the Shatterer have most of the player base waiting at the wp while only a few players are doing the pre-event. Examples could include:

increase the number of siege engine pieces required by the number of people on the map

decrease the respawn timer for the krait who come to attack the batteries and mega-laser in Tequatl, make the event completely fail if a battery or the laser is destroyed

 

Basically, the events aren't "world boss" events. They've become mindless "hit the same skill over and over and don't even look up mechanics" activities. World bosses should be world bosses. The lack of attention to the mechanics of the events should be penalised.

The players who include World Bosses in their gameplay loop have little interest in challenge.

They do so for social reasons primarily.
The rewards aren't stupidly out of control. The rewards for Teq (unless a player really lucks out with an Ascended drop) are pretty in line with the low effort "everyone press 1" gameplay style. I doubt an hour on a world boss train gets you more than 8 gold per hour average
And yet these events are usually packed.

Lots of people enjoy these activities, they aren't unbalancing the economy, the vast majority of players doing them are there because they are easy.
 

The only thing that does need to be looked at is the blatant leeching like players getting full rewards of the Choya Pinata without working the pre events, or the ones who afk, tag the boss a couple times and then AFK again.

Edited May 2, 2021 by mindcircus.1506

[Infusion.7149]

Tyria world bosses are sub level 80 content for the most part. I don't see a point in making them harder for the most part except maybe Claw of Jormag should probably have minor tweaking and more frequent ascended drops. Due to the inflation of Mystic coins the Jormag's Breath, Wintersbite, and Wintersbark drops are about as much as a precursor already though...

The current level 80 encoutners are Karka Queen and Claw of Jormag.

You have to keep in mind an openworld player mindset, if you just "make them harder" without new rewards they will have nobody doing them. Even Drakkar and Triple Trouble, even though they have unique rewards sees fewer people doing it compared to Tequatl or Karka Queen.

Which ones did you have in mind?

What really needs to happen for some of the older world bosses is multi-threading of the non-rendering portions. That needs to happen when it hits Steam preferably. Svanir shaman chief is notorious for performance issues even with d912pxy / dxvk.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Zephire.8049]

Making pre-events harder would just make it more annoying, not harder, since it means more player coordination and you'd need more players who know what to do playing to succeed. Since so many world bosses are in <80 areas (with 4 being in starter zones), they should be balanced around new(er) players and players who don't have gear and/or don't know their class, not people who have been playing for years, exotic or higher gear, and/or do raids or fractals regularly.

 

Making a boss harder should involve adding an attack or something that punishes not dodging it, for example, not making it more difficult for people not on boss train maps to start or adding a point of failure that would not allow for recovery.

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

  If you want challenging content then go to the modes of play that they exist in.  If T100 Fractals, WvW, RAIDs, PvP, or CM's from IBS isn't challenging enough then it sounds like a different game is in order. ANet has been in a constant battle of "more challenge". They do it, 3 weeks later a patch drops, and the challenge reduced. Look it up--it literally just happened for some achieves in IBS.

  The game is, for the most part, what it is. Let the communities that like "casual play" or "pound 1" enjoy their pound 1, let the dungeon crew enjoy fractals if dungeons are too easy, and when LWS/IBS is a cake walk go to the raids. They are apparently wanting / needed more players in the raid scene.

 

We've had WB's so hard it literally took hundreds of players hours make the first kill. What happened? Do you remember? Nerf! Just because some want more challenging lets not forget others might not. The game has content for both, that's what makes it good.

[BlueJin.4127]

There are a lot of players that are not decent at the game. With no control over player participation in the open world, making world bosses harder is not a good idea. Even for easy bosses, having too many players that deal extremely low DPS leads to fights that drag on for too long.

 

Rather than making the bosses harder, I'd like to see more interesting mechanics so that the fights aren't boring. Also, scaling needs to be toned down to compensate for the many players who cannot deal decent DPS. The best method is to have dynamic HP scaling that takes into consideration not just the number of players fighting the boss, but also the DPS the players are doing to the boss. This way, if the players are doing too little DPS, the boss' HP will not scale as much as normal.

Edited May 2, 2021 by BlueJin.4127

[Hesione.9412]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Tyria world bosses are sub level 80 content for the most part. I don't see a point in making them harder for the most part except maybe Claw of Jormag should probably have minor tweaking and more frequent ascended drops. Due to the inflation of Mystic coins the Jormag's Breath, Wintersbite, and Wintersbark drops are about as much as a precursor already though...

The current level 80 encoutners are Karka Queen and Claw of Jormag.

You have to keep in mind an openworld player mindset, if you just "make them harder" without new rewards they will have nobody doing them. Even Drakkar and Triple Trouble, even though they have unique rewards sees fewer people doing it compared to Tequatl or Karka Queen.

Which ones did you have in mind?

What really needs to happen for some of the older world bosses is multi-threading of the non-rendering portions. That needs to happen when it hits Steam preferably. Svanir shaman chief is notorious for performance issues even with d912pxy / dxvk.

Thinking on this more, a better idea would be to only give credit to people who contributed to the pre-events (The Shatterer - siege engine collection, Megadestroyer - protect the asura, Great Jungle Wurm - destroy the avatars).

 

For Tequatl, it's the people who stand where teq lands and don't help in the defence of the batteries/laser, as well as the ones who leave at :20 in order to get back (and stand around for >15 seconds) while some of us are remaining trying to protect the batteries/laser from the krait that are still alive/continuing to arrive. The players who yell "back" in map chat at :20 are a key contributor to this.

 

It's not a "git gud" problem. It's an "I am just going to stand here with my character until the boss appears and I can hit it" problem.

 

And point noted from @mindcircus.1506 re the pinata. I've been on at least one pinata map that has failed - enough players, but too many leeching at the waypoint and we didn't collect enough coins.

[Infusion.7149]

Then you don't mean make it harder, you mean make participation count for something similar to Drizzlewood Coast after they fixed it so people can't just afk all day there.

I'm not sure how feasible that is on core tyria maps if there isn't an existing mechanism for it. Perhaps the reward should be further split up between the pre-events and the end of the meta for pinata and other events (Karka Queen and Matriarch in Verdant Brink are especially poor about this). In essence, cut the reward and split all minor rewards into the pre-events.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Mitch.4781]

This would really be an awesome use of resources 10 years into the games lifespan! Yep, let's tinker with world bosses instead of doing new raids, fractals or fixing the mess that is DRM. I really hope they spend time doing this op!

 

Once they've finished revising all the decade old WB's, I pray they go to Caudecus Manor and make the bosses in there have new mechanics. It would really freshen things up!!!

 

Yay!

[supa.8593]

On 5/1/2021 at 7:40 PM, mindcircus.1506 said:

 

The only thing that does need to be looked at is the blatant leeching like players getting full rewards of the Choya Pinata without working the pre events, or the ones who afk, tag the boss a couple times and then AFK again.

 

 

Yes please, as someone who commands Pinata daily, it is SO uninspiring to barely finish the rounds while 30 people are AFK at the waypoint. 

 

[Raknar.4735]

This will only lead to no one doing them, just like Serpents' Ire.

 

Just remove the leechers that try to min-max rewards by putting no effort in it, just afking around till the boss is at 5% and then only press 1 button because they're tired of their dance routines.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

On 5/1/2021 at 5:29 PM, Hesione.9412 said:

With the power (condi! again) creep we've seen, especially since PoF was released, the Tyria world bosses are now too easy.

 

For example, the ones with pre-events such as the Shatterer have most of the player base waiting at the wp while only a few players are doing the pre-event. Examples could include:

increase the number of siege engine pieces required by the number of people on the map

decrease the respawn timer for the krait who come to attack the batteries and mega-laser in Tequatl, make the event completely fail if a battery or the laser is destroyed

 

Basically, the events aren't "world boss" events. They've become mindless "hit the same skill over and over and don't even look up mechanics" activities. World bosses should be world bosses. The lack of attention to the mechanics of the events should be penalised.

 

World Bosses are a lot of fun for new players, as they introduce them to boss mechanics, pre-events as well as community participation with food, banners, zergs, squads and mentors even LFG for Boss Trains.

 

While I do enjoy hopping in on WB from time to time, I don't feel the need to make them harder as I don't feel that I am the target audience for them.  HoT, PoF and LWS Metas are where I would expect veteran players to find a bit more challenge and rewards.

 

On the thought that inclusion should be based upon pre-event participation, I would not change that.  I could see adding incentives to doing the pre's (like a better reward tied specifically to the pre) but so many of them are so fast (Jungle Wurm, Shadow B, Both Claw and Maw) that getting inclusion for some or all events can be near impossible.  You can see in later OW Events that Anet included things like Keys from pre-events to facilitate loot at the end (AB and Drizzlewood) and made those events scale more as we would expect.

 

 

 

 

[Hesione.9412]

27 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

 

World Bosses are a lot of fun for new players, as they introduce them to boss mechanics, pre-events as well as community participation with food, banners, zergs, squads and mentors even LFG for Boss Trains.

But they're not introducing new players to boss mechanics. They're teaching new players to stand at the place the boss spawns (because others are doing the pre-events) and that it's okay to stand in one spot and autoattack.

 

I was on one boss map and one player was asking in map chat why the boss hadn't spawned yet (the pre-events hadn't been done, and I'd made a start on them along with a couple of other people - we'd just arrived on the map).

 

The points around "but things in the pre-event die too fast" - upscale them.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

33 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

But they're not introducing new players to boss mechanics. They're teaching new players to stand at the place the boss spawns (because others are doing the pre-events) and that it's okay to stand in one spot and autoattack.

 

I was on one boss map and one player was asking in map chat why the boss hadn't spawned yet (the pre-events hadn't been done, and I'd made a start on them along with a couple of other people - we'd just arrived on the map).

 

The points around "but things in the pre-event die too fast" - upscale them.

Watch players who die to boss encounters like Wurm and Behemoth and consider why they are dying there. They have yet to learn mechanics in the game to survive a world boss encounter. 
 

 

[Vilin.8056]

Motivations matter.

 

Back in the old days when Fire Elemental wiped nearly half of the player participated the event every single time, people loved it. Players who died that fight came back the same day for another round with slightly upgraded builds and tactics just to see how they lasted, despite getting no more reward. The map chat roared with cheers with each victory, so happened to other world bosses.

 

Now when you look at Dragonstorm, we simply linger for each phase to end till the inevitable reward rather than feeling a sense of need to fight for it. It is funny that an epic battle involving the death of two Elder Dragons to become more of a waiting game than a war game. Anet's increasingly casual approach has successfully descended this game into a mind-numbing formula that didn't achieve any appeal except making everybody feel stupid.

 

Therefore I fully support upscaling world bosses to their original glory, this way it will breath a new life into Tyria with its long lost sense of urgency and danger, in a form that no instanced bosses can simulate.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Joote.4081]

There's only so long you can spam the keyboard before you fall asleep.

[Bristingr.5034]

Just look at Dragonstorm and you'll see that they don't care about increasing the mechanic difficulty. You have 2 Elder Dragons staring at you and they maybe attack once every 30 seconds with some minor AOEs.

 

I mean, how hard is it to make it so Jormag tries to swipe at you or slam her paw down or do an insta-death chilling breath that's unavoidable if you're in the vicinity? Or have Primordus spew a titanic amount of lava all over the field that does 30+ stacks of burning damage if you touch it?

 

I'm all for increasing the difficulty of the mechanics on Lvl 80 maps. <Lvl 80 Maps, no -- the new folks are still learning the mechanics of the game.

 

Edit: I'm ignoring the fact that the fight is already stupid because the dragons just sit there and let their  ̶P̶o̶k̶é̶m̶o̶n̶ Champions fight for them.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Bristingr.5034

[MauChann.3081]

The amount of times there's going to be a new player standing in caledon forest, queensdale, wayfarer foothills etc asking why a couple dozen people are standing there is on a whole new level lately.

There's a ton of players basically who don't even know what worldbosses are, let alone how to handle them.
Yes, I absolutely agree, I am tired too of spamming one button while standing in one place, but as of right now I wouldn't appreciate a difficulty increase without making the fight more rewarding, or without a tutorial somewhere in the game that will allow new players to get to go along with the fight and understand what needs to be done.

Veteran players will not explain how certain mechanics work, Guides that exist online are barely looked at and sometimes complicated too.. There needs to be an ingame explaination of basic mechanics like cc, bounty mechanics, and much more, before we can start tinkering with more difficult versions of already existing worldbosses.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Deafeat The Great jungle Wurm, Fire Elemental and Karka Queen are a joke with the power creep over the years.

The rest are okay foe me.

[Westenev.5289]

World bosses have been easy lazy grindfests for as long as I remember (pre HoT 2015). 5 people do the pre events while 100 people stand around waiting for the boss to spawn. Combat has always consisted of standing on a commander and mashing 1. The only boss that requires some sort of coordination is the triple trouble worms, and you'll rarely see casual world boss runs attempt this.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Westenev.5289

[Astralporing.1957]

23 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Motivations matter.

 

Back in the old days when Fire Elemental wiped nearly half of the player participated the event every single time, people loved it. Players who died that fight came back the same day for another round with slightly upgraded builds and tactics just to see how they lasted, despite getting no more reward. The map chat roared with cheers with each victory, so happened to other world bosses.

You might try to remember more closely. The amount of players that did love it was really small. Most players avoided it like a plague, or gave up after one-two wipes.

 

 

[Infusion.7149]

2 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Deafeat The Great jungle Wurm, Fire Elemental and Karka Queen are a joke with the power creep over the years.

The rest are okay foe me.

The only one you listed there that is level 80 content is KQ.
Of those only KQ actually has a outlier reward if you only do the boss and not the pre-events.
See
https://www.peuresearchcenter.com/benchmarks.html
https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/world-bosses

[TheQuickFox.3826]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The only one you listed there that is level 80 content is KQ.
Of those only KQ actually has a outlier reward if you only do the boss and not the pre-events.
See
https://www.peuresearchcenter.com/benchmarks.html
https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/world-bosses

 

I know, but if the world boss dies in 20 seconds because a world boss train squad is doing them, there isn't much fun in them for low levels either.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I like that they add new bosses that are often more challenging than the core bosses in newer maps, but I think I would prefer it if they mostly leave the core bosses alone (okay that stupid fire elemental in Metrica could use a buff!).  I rarely participate because I find them boring, but they seem very popular with the crowd that enjoys core maps (I rarely go to those maps either!). 

 

I don't think upgrading world bosses would make them much more attractive to me and I think it would upset a lot of the players who love the core game but aren't big fans of the newer content.  I think this sort of thing really appeals to that crowd and I'd hate to ruin it for negligible gain for myself.  Just my opinion, of course.

[Obtena.7952]

Such a low impact and unwanted change. The people that do them now aren't doing them because they are hard ... the people that don't do them now won't go back if they were changed to be hard. 

 

If you want hard boss encounters, there are better and numerous options to do that. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952