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Is it just me, or mesmer is completely overpowered? Answers from non-mesmer players please.


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In PVP mesmer is bottom tier, especially if its mesmer and not mirage or chrono.  Mesmer is one of those classes where you are only going to beat the other class if you are better than them. On equal footing a mesmer will pretty much always lose. 

Mesmer is all about capitalizing on the mistakes / daze windows of the opponent.

 

This is from plat 1 point of view. I know mesmer does better in lower ranks because people get confused on the real target 😆

Edited by LuRkEr.9462
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1 hour ago, miifi.2150 said:

Is it just me, or mesmer is completely overpowered? Answers from non-mesmer players please.

There is a sentiment that comes along when people don't understand a class that it seems op, sort of like those who get angry at lb3 rangers or for instance those who complain about thief but don't understand how it works to counter, and others don't want to learn and just want to win.

 

 

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In my opinion is just you.  But maybe you'll have luck soon and after the torment change/nerf for PvP/WvW you'll have fun watching some cosplay of monk mesmers traying to do something out there, maybe the monkey.  😆

 

Anyways,  all will be tested, for sure. For now, waiting for the balance day and read the final patch notes and if anything else is added or they are as disappointing as now. At least for competitive mesmers. Some will start to dream and have visions of staffs everywhere. That then they perform well enough to be competitive... will be other story to watch. Also depending of how the mantra's cooldowns end...  pMirages could try to back to pChrono or reroll.    Some pChrono-Jazz? 😉

Edited by Zoser.7245
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Just now, LuRkEr.9462 said:

In PVP mesmer is bottom tier, especially if its mesmer and not mirage or chrono.  Mesmer is one of those classes where you are only going to beat the other class if you are better than them. On equal footing a mesmer will pretty much always lose. 

Mesmer is all about capitalizing on the mistakes / daze windows of the opponent.

 

This is from plat 1 point of view. I know mesmer does better in lower ranks because people get confused on the real target 😆

Mesmer is definitely not bottom tier. There are a lot of mesmer players in the top 100, with plenty breaking into the top 10.

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Any mesmer build is quite solid right now but not op yet. When I see mirages they feel like a solid duelist with a condi burst potential, core feels very tanky or bursty (this one is rare), sometimes I see a power phantasm chrono with a good dps or a condi one.

 

I think the worst aspect of fighting mesmers is how overwhelming it feels. There are a ton of animations, a good amount of evades and the amount of cc they can output feels crazy. On the other hand they tend to be fragile (tend is important) and vulnerable to builds that have either aoes or constant condi cleanse.

 

The more I play chrono the more I feel like I am mostly an offensive supports in fights and getting things right feels so satisfying. I hold big nodes very well but cannot force someone out, I have a decent potential single target burst but I get destroyed by cleave, I rez quite fast, can protect against projectiles, stunlock / immob a target.

 

If you are mostly single target focus power build or do not have that many condi cleanse when you fight a mirage or do not have stab to cover your casting then yes mesmer is a huge pain to fight because at any critical moment your life can become hell. I believe this is what you are experiencing, they have drawbacks and maybe your build cannot exploit it.

Edited by aymnad.9023
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1 hour ago, miifi.2150 said:

Well I'm a noob tbh, but nobody wrecks me as hard as mesmer, the burst is crazy..

There is no shame to that. I remember when people said weaver was dead yet I had no ways to deal with them in ranked or in tournaments while playing core ranger. Months later it became meta, some people were surprised while it felt natural to me for multiple reasons.

This is part of gw2, some builds just cannot deal with others. It is both great for the health of game (in tournaments) and an incredible source of frustrations in ranked. If you read something on the forums or feel a way about a build it can be very hard to determine if this is a general feeling for most people (in which case a build is probably meta for tournaments or good for solo queue) or just for you (because people will always say you are the issue).

 There are builds that you will never be able to fight and mechanics that are super easy to use and strong. While I do not feel like mesmer is op it is definitely frustrating to fight and as soon as I will play something else I will absolutely hate them.

 

Since the most common build is mirage your build probably cannot cleanse or face the amount of condi they bring for 10s while being hard to touch.  I do not know the level of the mirages you fight but the average ones give everything at the start so you need some strong blocks, cleanse or anything to kite / avoid / survive the initial part of the fight.

 

Edit You should probably find someone playing the same profession as you do, maybe they will have a variant of your build or some tricks that are better than my answer which can feel like the general "just survive"

 

Edit 2 : maybe your heal also has a ~1cast time and they can interrupt you. You have to find a timing to heal (which is hard) or be hidden when you do it.

Edited by aymnad.9023
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The main issue with most mesmer builds is that they are build around one-shot combos which are fairly easy to pull off.
Its probably not healthy to have builds ingame that can kill you in 1 sec or during a stunlock (especially if the setup is instant and often through invisibility)

 

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5 minutes ago, Mesis.2951 said:

The main issue with most mesmer builds is that they are build around one-shot combos which are fairly easy to pull off.
Its probably not healthy to have builds ingame that can kill you in 1 sec or during a stunlock (especially if the setup is instant and often through invisibility)

 

The majority of mesmer builds are condi Mirage which doesn't have a oneshot combo. Oneshot combo is exclusive to power builds. Very few play power and much fewer play it well. 

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10 hours ago, miifi.2150 said:

Is it just me, or mesmer is completely overpowered? Answers from non-mesmer players please.

 

No.

 

9 hours ago, LuRkEr.9462 said:

In PVP mesmer is bottom tier. 

 

Also no, technically. It is manageable on certain classes and in team settings, but punishes certain classes incredibly hard. It can still pull some decent plays.

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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Daze mantra is a broken skill imo, the rest of the class is  weak/fine. 

 

I don't think ranged instant cast no-tell no-counterplay crowd control is healthy to fight. Seems counter intuitive to the whole "give CC's longer cast times" patch they did where they nerfed Staff 5, overcharged shot, deflecting shot, ect. Thing is, the rest of the class is generally quite weak so it ends up not being as oppressive as it could be. 

 

 

Edited by Kuma.1503
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Condi mirage, most of the burst is instant (shatter etc), therefore, it is somehow hard to predict. And if you kittened up once, you eat a ton of condition, and because of the power block, its hard to heal back. And in 1v1 basis, mirage can also disengage pretty easily. I think the issue of mirage is that it is weak to +1s.

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18 hours ago, Mesis.2951 said:

The main issue with most mesmer builds is that they are build around one-shot combos which are fairly easy to pull off.
Its probably not healthy to have builds ingame that can kill you in 1 sec or during a stunlock (especially if the setup is instant and often through invisibility)

 

"most mesmer builds"

 

nice joke

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4 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Daze mantra is a broken skill imo, the rest of the class is  weak/fine. 

 

I don't think ranged instant cast no-tell no-counterplay crowd control is healthy to fight. Seems counter intuitive to the whole "give CC's longer cast times" patch they did where they nerfed Staff 5, overcharged shot, deflecting shot, ect. Thing is, the rest of the class is generally quite weak so it ends up not being as oppressive as it could be. 

 

 

Did you notice that

1. They removed Mesmers instant stun (confounding suggestions trait)?

2. Overcharged shot, staff 5 (on rev I presume), and deflecting shot are all hard CC?

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1 hour ago, Quadox.7834 said:

Did you notice that

1. They removed Mesmers instant stun (confounding suggestions trait)?

2. Overcharged shot, staff 5 (on rev I presume), and deflecting shot are all hard CC?

ppl will never get that difference between hard lock down cc with main purpose of offensive pin downing the target (no dodge, no movement, no skilluse) to hit  follow up dmg and short soft interrupt focused cc (only skill use prevention, you can outmove/ kite and dodge follow ups) which can be instant 😆 short soft interupt cc lit needs to be instant. that only counts for short daze with 1 secs or less duration. otherwise have fun interupting 3/4 secs average casttime on lot of keyskills with human reaction time+ latency+ own casttime.

and it also has tons of counterplay to get interupted on keyskills, just dodging is not one of them. sadly they will remove a bit of counterplay by removing the active mantra recharge (most stupid thing ever). its a casual pve game tho and when they leave the current count recharge with 24 secs (totally overnerfed cd for a skill doing nothing  else than a short daze) you will neither see daze mantra nor powerblock after mai patch. game and mesmer dumbed down by a lot gg anet. 

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"Answers from non-mesmer players please" 

Thread almost exclusively filled with replies from mesmer players.

 

Jokes aside, I don't play mesmer in pvp and I don't think its op.

Power mesmer does like maybe 25% of my bunker's health with their combo. Maybe a solid 50% if I stand there doing absolutely nothing. Pretty sad numbers compared to the old.

Condi isn't op either. It's annoying; don't get me wrong, but annoying doesn't mean op.

Edited by Multicolorhipster.9751
typo
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i think mesmer basically wins the skill spam wars

 

The class is filled with skills that punish skill spam gameplay, (which is played by basically every tier up to plat one), while turning a duel into a rave in 3 secs which makes very hard for begginners to even tell which of those copies is the real mesmer, and all those skills that disjoint, stealth, blink make it even harder to find the real one.

 

The insta cast mantras don´t help either if you have high ping like me, a mesmer that is not facerolling will get his interrupts on me every single time.

 

Mirage is kinda problematic and it has always been, i think the aoe spam before was too strong, and it had too many counters for all this time, it's kinda the full circle around balance, it happened to weaver as well, 0 buffs in 12 months and it still came back to super meta cuz all his counters were nerfed.

 

I think the clones generation is the thing that bothers me the most, if i have to tuned to down would be it, slightly.

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Mesmer isn't OP, it's just a very poorly designed  class when it comes to PvP, leading to unskillful and frustrating gameplay because they refuse to fix the mechanics about the class that have been repeatedly pointed out by the community as being bad for the game. Attacking while defending, being able to dodge while CCd, passive damage while running away, etc.

 

The problem gets worse by Anets balance responses to it. Instead of fixing said bad mechanics to make them less uninteractive and frustrating, they have instead opted to nerf Mesmers  numbers to the ground so that the class is trash unless played absolutely perfectly. It's just not a good direction to take things at all.

Edited by Master Ketsu.4569
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15 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

ppl will never get that difference between hard lock down cc with main purpose of offensive pin downing the target (no dodge, no movement, no skilluse) to hit  follow up dmg and short soft interrupt focused cc (only skill use prevention, you can outmove/ kite and dodge follow ups) which can be instant 😆 short soft interupt cc lit needs to be instant. that only counts for short daze with 1 secs or less duration. otherwise have fun interupting 3/4 secs average casttime on lot of keyskills with human reaction time+ latency+ own casttime.

and it also has tons of counterplay to get interupted on keyskills, just dodging is not one of them. sadly they will remove a bit of counterplay by removing the active mantra recharge (most stupid thing ever). its a casual pve game tho and when they leave the current count recharge with 24 secs (totally overnerfed cd for a skill doing nothing  else than a short daze) you will neither see daze mantra nor powerblock after mai patch. game and mesmer dumbed down by a lot gg anet. 

 

By themselves the instant interrupt are in theory fine and super satisfying to land. But they need a small drawback whether it is the range or the cd because of how strong they are and can completely nullify some professions. When I face power rangers it is so easy to interrupt their heavy skills like rapid fire, barrage, maul.

 

The mantra has no cast time and travel time so it is less susceptible to lag than anything in the game and can be used while cced, it is not a projectile so it has less counter than most range cc, it is range so you do not put yourself in danger and the cd is quite short.

 

Also do you realize how none of the things you mentioned matter when a targets reaches 30% and gets hit by mantra, weapon 5, F3, mantra, other weapon 5 and whatever other mechanic your current specialization has? Add your allies or the conditions that 95% of the mesmers use into the mix and all those “smart skills” become stupid. Let’s not pretend that this chain of cc is a rare / lucky occurrence that you get once in a while. The best part is that you can afford to miss most of them because of a dodge because it also takes around 1s to complete.

 

Edit : Even I started playing mesmer recently I see how cc is a part of my dps and an interrupt can turn the game (this is also why I would rather play mid than the sides). Because of it (and other things) I have mixt feelings about the profession because I see how little impact I would have without, how great it feels to land something (just like I loved getting a good corrupt on necro) but also how ridiculous it can be to just make someone stop playing for such a long time (also I have been on the receiving end for years).

 

Edited by aymnad.9023
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5 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

 

By themselves the instant interrupt are in theory fine and super satisfying to land. But they need a small drawback whether it is the range or the cd because of how strong they are and can completely nullify some professions. When I face power rangers it is so easy to interrupt their heavy skills like rapid fire, barrage, maul.

 

The mantra has no cast time and travel time so it is less susceptible to lag than anything in the game and can be used while cced, it is not a projectile so it has less counter than most range cc, it is range so you do not put yourself in danger and the cd is quite short.

 

Also do you realize how none of the things you mentioned matter when a targets reaches 30% and gets hit by mantra, weapon 5, F3, mantra, other weapon 5 and whatever other mechanic your current specialization has? Add your allies or the conditions that 95% of the mesmers use into the mix and all those “smart skills” become stupid. Let’s not pretend that this chain of cc is a rare / lucky occurrence that you get once in a while. The best part is that you can afford to miss most of them because of a dodge because it also takes around 1s to complete.

 

Edit : Even I started playing mesmer recently I see how cc is a part of my dps and an interrupt can turn the game (this is also why I would rather play mid than the sides). Because of it I have mixt feelings about the profession because I see how little impact I would have without, how great it feels to land something (just like I loved getting a good corrupt on necro) but also how ridiculous it can be to just make someone stop playing for such a long time.

 

you have a lot of drawbacks, i explained them in the powerblock bug thread, in case you are interested in them 

 

esp the mantra format was great for skills you want to be or which need to be instant, the active recharge adds more counterplay other instant skills like meditations on guard, fa ele air burst and warrior shouts and all other castskills in the game  dont have (sadly they will remove that, stupid as it is).

 

also about what a long time ppl cannot play the game you talk? its just a very short 1 sec daze, i facetank every random spammed short daze on the squishiest build in the game without the need to care. its pretty low impact by itself. and that is also the reason it can be instant, a short daze has pretty low impact on simple hit. a hard cc like a stun meanwhile can be your death without even interupting anything.
 

powerblock and mantra being only a short daze with low impact without interrupt then adds the interupt need (and even more the need to interrupt keyskills in keymoments not just random rupt autoattacks like old pi or old ci for decent value) what adds even more countrplay which other on hit reward skills/ traits dont have (for that they are reactive dodgeable but you cannot perma cover yourself vs them while you can temporary cover your important skills like heal vs interupts in several ways) and as said the other drawbacks i mentioned in the other thread.

 

mes only has f3 and mantra as interupt focused cc. everything else is casttime cc not able to reactive interrupt average casttime skills of 3/4 secs casts (can rupt on expectation/ guess/ prediction, so ofc when ppl play super predictable and emergency heal last moment then pistol will do the job wit the healrupt prob) and also have way more value on hit already (thats why they have a casttime, they are hard cc highly rewarding on hit already, not on interrupt only) and while torch phantasm has an insane window and easy counterplay by just moving (same for sword ambushes btw), pistol is indeed broken with the short casttime and bad visible animation for an overly long hard lock down cc stun of 2 secs on a burstclass with oneshot potential. but as said pistol still is not an interrupt cc but should get a bit longer cast time and better animation. so you have 2 dazes with currently 18,25 secs (if you pressure or interrupt the mes he maybe even cant get a recharge of the mantra for a bit longer) and f3 with 38 secs cd (32 traited). that is not an high amount for a trait (pb)/ skill (mantra) with such situational (less permanent) impact with higher skill requirement compared to on hit reward traits/ skills from the need to interupt (esp interupt keyskills in keymoments). 

 

also dont mix condimes balance issues with interupt/ powerblock stuff. there is stuff like axe 3 (completely overloaded skill, double defense with detarget and dodge, reduced skill cap by porting clones to the target so no need for skillful and on purpose clone positioning, very good dmg and that all on pretty low cd), broken pistol (es already explained) and signet of illusion what needs to be reworked or at least should lose the f4 reset since it does nothing else than breaking cd balance from strong instant shatters and providing shatterspam and lower punishment for shatterwatses. if those stuff would finally get attention by anet powerblock/ mantra would also be no problem on this build, just as it is no problem on power mes. even more powrblock/ mantra is what adds a bit skill to the condi spam and with that makes it semi intersting to play at least for a while for me as a challenge player. 

 

also that you get interrupts (even on heals) that easy atm is just bc lot of ppl just refuse to accept and learn the counterplay. like me, i know the interactions from both sides of the fight (means when playing vs powerblock mesmers also on other classes than my power mes, ranked and ats) and i have no problem to counterplay powerblock/ mantra from mesmers of any skill lvl and that even in outnumbered situations or when a pb mesmer tries to +1 me.  

 

for a trait like powerblock mantra needs to be as it is currently and you cannot compare to headshot on thief who has a way stronger instant class mechanic doesnt need setups and class resources before use and thief doesnt have such highly situational and high skill cap interrupt traits like powerblock (and only has a powerblock light version on one utility for good reasons).

 

so in context of the basic class mechanics and its strengths and weaknesses mantra is totally balanced as it is (as long as anet balance interupt traits around that instant interrutp tool, and ineptitude and maybe ve are the only triats left could cause problems wit that, old lost time gone, old ci gone, old confounding with stun on each daze gone, powerblock is perfectly designed already with mantra in mind since pb needs a precision tool and casttime hard cc can not give mes that) 

Edited by JazzXman.7018
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I play mirage in pvp and yes, I find it very frustrating to play against the class as a new or casual player. (i hated playing against mesmer like 1 year ago)

Mesmers can stealth, teleport away, dodge, evade, invul. Also it can put lots of conditions on you that damages you heavily if you try to play the game (read walk or use skills - torment/confusion).

The UI doesn't help a tiny bit since the conditions are hidden in a tiny area down below... While you need to pay attention to character animations, enemy boons, team fight status, minimap, cooldowns, etc... Everything is distant from eachother and there's no way to reorganize the UI to your liking. So, you might not even know that you have high amounts of Confusion or Torment before the big damage hits you.

Besides all this, mesmer also creates clones of himself and can break targeting with a few skills. Which makes it almost impossible for newer players to identify the real mesmer which leads to frustration.

The class is really cool, original concept but its too flawed to balance it out sadly IMO :(

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