Elementalist is not "in a very good place"

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

There are numerous factors on why tempest sucks in pve :

Big hitbox ;  so you need a  fat and slow boss to take all the strikes, on all the duration.

Conjured weapons ;  it means you need to stay close to your weapon on ground, not fail to pick them up in the right order (it's not that easy, fortunately for elem we don't have banners and planks on ground anymore), you need others to not pick them up.

Long CD on conjured weapons +  storm  glyph

Once you have finish to overlap all the storms at the beginning of the fight your DPS goes so low for so long time. And if you fail one of these importants skills, it's worst.

While, for example on weaver* sw/d, if you fail one skill or gimmick obviously your DPS drop, but not for long and not so low. DPS is shared in numerous skills with shorter CD.

 

Tempest is only good the first minute of the fight, or on some bosses with invulnerability/puzzle phases long enough to refresh skills. It's quite interesting in fractals, with good group able to pre-cast, and that's all. Still you can do same burst or more with pyrovortex+Quantum Strike weaver.

 

And for the support tempest

No quickness, no alacrity, no barrier, no aegis, no offensive buff, not even the best healer, or strongest healing burst.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Jski.6180]

9 hours ago, Aigleborgne.2981 said:

All elites are power creep from core. It's not new! 

 

Tempest didn't change from core ele where as weaver introduced a new gameplay for ele. 

First time I tried tempest, I thought those overloads were nice. But using them and having a 20s CD is against ele principles. So I quickly returned to core. 

Fun part for many ele is attunement switch, which is further emphasis with weaver. 

Weaver also brings very good synergy with all traits related to attunement switch. Something that tempest never came close to, mainly because auras are not good to start with. 

Weaver just gets free +120 from being in a given atument the old effect of core ele that was removed some time ago. What dose being a weaver mean you need to get +120 of something for each given atument? That is what you call pure power creep has next to nothing to do with the class other then just to add on to it.

 

Its kind of a joke to say tempest Gathered Focus is some how even close to this effect and its even worst saying core ele "nothing" is not massively weaker.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Shiyo.3578]

Ele gets nerfed every patch and never gets new builds added to it. It makes no sense.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

So much lol we get 3 lines of minor +/- 5% changes. "Ah yeah yeah, the ele-men-ta-list ... is nice, very good hmmm... DPS ?! Or support ? I don't care;  let's put 5% here and let's move to the next class".

I don't care if we have got nerfs, reworks; but at least it would be nice to have equal processing between specs.

It seems they just don't know and don't care.

[Vilin.8056]

Seriously, as an Ele main I am truly baffled, do we even need more condition boost?

Like I need another dire/trail condition build like zillion of similar classes out there.

 

The fun of an Elementalist has always been the thrill of tactically avoiding upcoming damages while bursting high damage AoE fields as an glass canon like all Mages of a phantasy world should be.

 

The current shift into condition builds with low mobility, slow attack speed, low CC makes the class too much like a necro with  more burning.

[Puck.3697]

On 5/6/2021 at 5:21 AM, Jski.6180 said:

Weaver is pure power creep from core ele.  Its not a good example of good balancing or well made product from anet.

 

tbh this is the case for most classes its kinda the nature of it.. ur reliesing a ELITE version of classes. its kinda in the name exactly whats going on here..

 

metas meta, 1 will win out the other, and to litterally Make the old stuff better then the new stuff to prevent such, whats the point of even bringing the elite in on those terms.. ontop of it'd make the game very stale, if u were still playing core ele for the last 8 years.

 

the problems with the concept. more then the outcome

 

Elite Speccs should have been just additional Trait lines to work with Core Classes. the mechanical improvements and changes should have been applied directly to the core class.

 

 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

38 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

tbh this is the case for most classes its kinda the nature of it.. ur reliesing a ELITE version of classes. its kinda in the name exactly whats going on here..

 

metas meta, 1 will win out the other, and to litterally Make the old stuff better then the new stuff to prevent such, whats the point of even bringing the elite in on those terms.. ontop of it'd make the game very stale, if u were still playing core ele for the last 8 years.

 

the problems with the concept. more then the outcome

 

Elite Speccs should have been just additional Trait lines to work with Core Classes. the mechanical improvements and changes should have been applied directly to the core class.

 

 

 

For most of classes, e-spec are power-creep in one, two, three purposes : sustain, self boons, support, condi, power, etc.

Weaver is just better than ele in all aspects. Everything you want to do, the mix you want to do, or you imagine possible in core ele, you can do it better with Weaver.

 

Just look at Elemental Polyphony; it aint much but this trait is pur laziness and already helps with power creep; more dps, more healing ...

Same for "weaver -4sec" trait that helps to trigger core traits (arcane traits, sunspot, healing ripple etc) more often.

With thse 2 traits, plus duals attacks, you are a better healer with weaver than with only core water/arcane/??

Aura sharing ? Better with weaver.  Condi dps, fresh air, lighntning rod, self sustain, staff, self combo/boons ... better with weaver.

 

Honestly I don't care. I didn't really like elem before weaver.

But it's sad to see Core has nothing; no purpose, no niche, just some whims for oldschool players.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Puck.3697]

4 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

For most of classes, e-spec are power-creep in one, two, three purposes : sustain, self boons, support, condi, power, etc.

Weaver is just better than ele in all aspects. Everything you want to do, the mix you want to do, or you imagine possible in core ele, you can do it better with Weaver.

 

Just look at Elemental Polyphony; it aint much but this trait is pur laziness and already helps with power creep; more dps, more healing ...

Same for "weaver -4sec" trait that helps to trigger core traits (arcane traits, sunspot, healing ripple etc) more often.

With thse 2 traits, plus duals attacks, you are a better healer with weaver than with only core water/arcane/??

Aura sharing ? Better with weaver.  Condi dps, fresh air, lighntning rod, self sustain, staff, self combo/boons ... better with weaver.

 

Honestly I don't care. I didn't really like elem before weaver.

But it's sad to see Core has nothing; no purpose, no niche, just some whims for oldschool players.

 

isnt Daredevil the same thing for thief. and both Elites the same for Core engineer. Herald/Renagade for Revenant? Core mesmers only useful for a sub-optimal PvP build also otherwise chrono/mirage outclasses it in PvE.

 

i mean elementalist isnt alone in the boat really.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

8 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

isnt Daredevil the same thing for thief. and both Elites the same for Core engineer. Herald/Renagade for Revenant? Core mesmers only useful for a sub-optimal PvP build also otherwise chrono/mirage outclasses it in PvE.

 

i mean elementalist isnt alone in the boat really.

 

Core thief has a better niche and builds than elem in pvp/wvw. It hasn't been always the case, but the "nerf" to steal/swipe already marks the gameplay difference.

 

But anyway, because it exists elsewhere doesn't mean this is acceptable.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Jski.6180]

7 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

tbh this is the case for most classes its kinda the nature of it.. ur reliesing a ELITE version of classes. its kinda in the name exactly whats going on here..

 

metas meta, 1 will win out the other, and to litterally Make the old stuff better then the new stuff to prevent such, whats the point of even bringing the elite in on those terms.. ontop of it'd make the game very stale, if u were still playing core ele for the last 8 years.

 

the problems with the concept. more then the outcome

 

Elite Speccs should have been just additional Trait lines to work with Core Classes. the mechanical improvements and changes should have been applied directly to the core class.

 

 

At this point after this update is saying "power creep" a bad world any more? It may just be time to ask for every thing on ele and forget the problems with power creep.

 

Ele is not doing dps and support (though aggressive boons) like the other classes in pve why?

 

I feel like we are entering a new ages where cronyism for classes with the devs may be all you need to get a good update for your class.

 

Weaver should get quickness and be able to give it to others at the same time giving out fury and might. Tempest should be giving out alacrity might and fury.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

21 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

At this point after this update is saying "power creep" a bad world any more? It may just be time to ask for every thing on ele and forget the problems with power creep.

 

Ele is not doing dps and support (though aggressive boons) like the other classes in pve why?

 

I feel like we are entering a new ages where cronyism for classes with the devs may be all you need to get a good update for your class.

 

Weaver should get quickness and be able to give it to others at the same time giving out fury and might. Tempest should be giving out alacrity might and fury.

All of eles "grant might in fire, regen in water, prot in earth..." traits feel so bad in these power crept metas. Minimal boons outside of arcane, 0 quickness, (except for 1 skill in lightning hammer), 0 alacrity, the 1 main might generation trait also removes might after swapping out of fire... The only thing ele has abundant access to is lots of damage modifers, which are only really useful in organized pve.

 

But anyways, if this patch was supposed to prepare for EoD i have a bad feeling about the power creep we may see.

[Jeddite.8620]

https://gw2mists.com/builds

 

https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW

 

ele is out of the meta, there is no top tier build at the moment.

[Jski.6180]

It has a lot to do with what ele was made to do and what anet gave ele to do it with. Pve is the driving foces behind balance now due to un split and non split of skills. Ele was made to do dps but JUST dps with very minor boons. The pve has moved in such a way where every class can do nearly the same dps but other classes can do much more boons or much stronger boons that hit 5-10 targets. Ele NEEDS the stronger boons now or it cant be viable in pve any more.

 

I person hate how all this carried over to wvw and spvp that is anet fault and falling.

[Einlanzer.1627]

Earth really does need an overhaul. Water arguably does too. They are a little bit too support-minded. Other sets/classes do not give up so much damage to provide support. The only effect this has is "Forcing" solo eles to run Air or Fire. I don't see the point.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Einlanzer.1627

[Puck.3697]

12 hours ago, Jeddite.8620 said:

https://gw2mists.com/builds

 

https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW

 

ele is out of the meta, there is no top tier build at the moment.

I'm pretty certain both those sources are out of date 🤣

 

 

[felix.2386]

i'm sure its not ele in a bad spot, but the simple fact of anet lost their mind and made FB/scourge/chrono/scrapper

[Jski.6180]

After wvwing for a bit after this update i can safely say ele is a dead class. I cant believe they gave mez alactory and might for 10 targets in WVW at 300 ish ranged when ele has to eat an aura for 5 stack of might at 240 ranged.

 

I think this is the worst places ele has been in every during gw2 history. The fact that anet thinks its "in a good places" makes things far worst and darker (how do these devs keep there jobs.)

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, felix.2386 said:

i'm sure its not ele in a bad spot, but the simple fact of anet lost their mind and made FB/scourge/chrono/scrapper

That is also a reason, but ele is in very bad spot and you can't deny that.
Both elite specializations are poorly designed and are upgrades to core, not "possible new playstyle". 
Traits all over the place and overall weak, the best example are Aura ones, they're pretty much in every single traitline beside Weaver.
Weapon skills are bad as well, not only they're weak on their own, but often have long cooldown for pepe effect, on top of that thanks to powercreep of other classes, this is even bigger problem now. Sword skills on Weaver are bad af, why they gave us 2 EVADE skills? It's unhealthy because it makes you kind of "uninteractive". Range on Sword, which in theory should be longer than Dagger ones, is somehow shorter?
Not gonna mention all 6-10 skills, because they're mostly bad, but just look at Weavers set skills, all of them are "selfish" and then you have "Aquatic Stance", which somehow is "support" type? 
No logic at all.
 

[periphery.5421]

On 5/2/2021 at 10:19 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

With the patch notes, the state of ele is looking pretty worrying. Its hard to predict exactly how the pvp meta will shift, but there are some undeniable issues that have been ignored for a long time. Traits in particular have always been an issue for ele because they are specifically designed for one attunement, with arcane being generally useful (mandatory) on most builds. While this already restricts trait options because of poor synergies, it gets worse because there are a lot of very bad traits which dont really have any use in any type of content. Note that this is mainly from a pvp and wvw perspective

 

Traits:

 

Fire:

The fire traitline is good for condi builds, but its very difficult to justify taking it for power builds. Power overwhelming and pyromancers puissance are interesting and fun to play with, but generally perform poorly compared to air. Losing most of your might after you swap out of fire is a pretty huge downside, and the damage of flame expulsion with low might stacks is pretty pathetic and is easy to avoid. Other than those 2 traits there really isnt any reason to take fire for power damage as persisting flames rarely stack to their full potential, blinding ashes is mediocre and incredibly boring, and the other traits are either defensive or dont support power builds.

 

Air:

Air is one of the stronger traitlines, with fresh air and lightning rod being the key parts to every power build right now. While they are interesting & powerful traits that change gameplay significantly, it feels kind of bad that a single trait is the only thing keeping power builds alive.

 

Water:

Water is possibly the worst traitline, and is only really taken because of aura sharing on support builds. I cant think of any reason any build would take soothing ice or piercing shards, cleansing wave and flow like water are extremely underwhelming, and soothing power is pretty terrible (also it seems to be bugged from my testing in pvp). Water needs a pretty big overhaul as at least half the traits are useless in all types of content.

 

Earth:

Earth is a mediocre choice for condi and support builds. earths embrace is bad for obvious reasons, rock solid is interesting but impractical, earthen blessing is awful (10 condis = 1 dodge). The only thing earth really has going for it is the multiple damage reduction sources which help with eles low health pool and armor.

 

Arcane:

Arcane is by far the strongest traitline, and is mandatory in most builds. The main reason for this is because it is the only easy way to get swiftness, protection, regen, vigor, and fury, and evasive arcana is a powerful skill on most builds.

 

Tempest:

Tempest has some pretty good options, however lucid singularity is pretty lacking for a GM trait.

 

Weaver:

Weaver has some strong defensive traits, but the utility/damage traits are pretty bad. Elemental pursuit is one of the worst traits ele has and just comparing it to holosmiths crystal configuration: zephyr makes me sad. Elements of rage is going to be a very underwhelming GM trait with the power damage nerf, and woven stride has negligible effects unless you purposefully combine it with cleansing water and swift revenge for a weird cleansing build.

 

Utility: Again many of the elementalist utility skills are lacking in effectiveness or just completely outdated.

 

Cantrips:

Armor of earth cd is far too long to make it usable which is a shame since it is one of the few stability and protection sources ele has. Cleansing fire is again a ridiculously long cooldown to cleanse 3 condis. Mist form, again, is too long of a cooldown. Compared to elixir S, 66% movement and the inability to interact with things after activation is not worth an extra 15s cd.

 

Arcane:

Arcane shield is a powerful stunbreak, but its not really worth taking without the cd reduction trait. Arcane power is pretty bad and honestly feels like a skill that has been forgotten about.

 

Conjures:

Conjures feel like they have been completely forgotten about given how there hasnt been a single meaningful update to them over the entire games history. 3 of the 5 are completely useless in pvp, and frost bow and flame axe are absolutely awful in all gamemodes and need to be completely reworked. The projectiles are slow and miss half the time, the damage is weak, and they offer nothing that ever makes them worth using. Again comparing conjures to engineer with their kits, conjures should arguably be more powerful than kits because they have cast times, limited duration / 2 uses, and relatively long cooldowns.

 

Glyphs:

Glyphs are pretty mediocre, and i have a lot of hate for the rez glyph but thats a whole other topic. Elementals are slow and rarely useful. Also glyph of elementals - air elemental is bugged where its auto attacks dont hit players.

 

Signets:

Signet of earth is not worth the utility slot for a 25s cd 3s immob, and signet of water is just not really that useful.

 

TLDR: Many parts of the elementalist's kit feels outdated or just plain useless. The lack of synergies between traits, and limited options for important boons/utility makes for stale build diversity, and a lot of the utility skills are mediocre at best.

 

 

Ele is heinous, ruined trash and I'm completely done with the profession (and game) now.

[Loke.1429]

I only play WvW, as a weaver and elementalist in general. For the longest time devs have nerfed me based on PVE metrics (even through from a WvW balance standpoint it was really stupid to do so). At this point I dont think they even want us WvW players in their game. Its like they regret making WvW or something. They definitely regret making the elementalist, or just have some other brainchildren that they love a lot more

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:45 PM, Loke.1429 said:

I only play WvW, as a weaver and elementalist in general. For the longest time devs have nerfed me based on PVE metrics (even through from a WvW balance standpoint it was really stupid to do so). At this point I dont think they even want us WvW players in their game. Its like they regret making WvW or something. They definitely regret making the elementalist, or just have some other brainchildren that they love a lot more

To me it seems like they dont know how to balance ele traits since they are focused on specific attunements. Instead of reworking things or making better synergies between elements they have kind of just left ele to stagnate. However the one good thing for ele in this patch was removing retal, we can finally play staff solo in wvw without needing a healer to babysit us.

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

To me it seems like they dont know how to balance ele traits since they are focused on specific attunements. Instead of reworking things or making better synergies between elements they have kind of just left ele to stagnate. However the one good thing for ele in this patch was removing retal, we can finally play staff solo in wvw without needing a healer to babysit us.

 

It does feel like they're trying to create synergies between the core elements, but are only ever able to tie any of it together by adding elite specs.  Like cleanse on regen in water sounds decent, but there aren't enough sources of regen to make this work without taking tempest or weaver.  It's the same issue you see with auras.  Traits that are lackluster for core due to lack of sufficient sources work great for tempest, which has shouts and aura-related traits to really make it work.

 

It ends up feeling like you could really use a 4th trait line any time you try to create a synergistic build that works for core ele.

[solemn.9608]

I swear the elementalist class seems like one big contest of self-victimization, but ... that being said, yeah, a couple buffs here and there would be great. Pls and thanks anet.

[Jski.6180]

48 minutes ago, solemn.9608 said:

I swear the elementalist class seems like one big contest of self-victimization, but ... that being said, yeah, a couple buffs here and there would be great. Pls and thanks anet.

Only early on with the "rubber ban hp" argument. Now we have all of the classes in the game with "rubber ban hp" but they are not getting the same treatment as ele did back then.

[TheDarkness.6947]

As a new player who recently leveled an ele to 80, I have to say I’m disappointed.  Feels like kind of a noob-trap to be honest.  Ele feels super clunky to play, and extremely squishy.  I could live with those things if I could articulate an upside to playing one, but I can’t. 

 

My buddies who started with me on other profs (we are all experienced MMO gamers) seem to be having a much easier time achieving better results.  Nothing about ele feels spectacular, other than that the visuals are cool.  Your reward for performing all the maniacal button pressing and CD tracking well is that you don’t die.  Sometimes.  Neither the DPS nor the flexibility seem much better than what you’d get from another prof.

 

So I’m going to re-roll another profession to main.  Hopefully ele will get some love sooner or later so I can dust it off, and it won’t feel like all that play time was wasted.  I wanted to love this prof but to me it seems pretty neglected and over-nerfed, at least in my experience.

Edited May 18, 2021 by TheDarkness.6947