Mantra changes

[Daniel Handler.4816]

Are they really going to remove the cooldown on mantras and leave us with the long kitten recharge times? There has to some additional change right? Or did MoR just go from the best to the worst heal? Twice the cooldown, and 3k less healing.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Infusion.7149]

If I had to guess it would just be ammo recharge (20). The cooldown on Mantra of Recovery's Power Return would then remain 1 recharge.

 

The verbiage used: 

Quote

As a result, in this balance update, we have decided to rework both mesmer and firebrand mantras into simple ammunition skills.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Jerasa.9086]

Anet trying to rework mantras they probably mess Mesmer healer

Quote

• Mantras: Mantras no longer need to be prepared before use. They regenerate ammunition normally.

At the moment every mantra already have ammunition we don't have the mantra charging time anymore this is really bad for Mesmer

If we take Mantra of pain it have a 1sec cd and 10 sec ammunition recharge (this is the mantra with the lower cooldown

) a Mesmer can use the mantra healing trait every 4 sec with that mantra if we remove the mantra initial charge they cooldown will go from 1 up to 10 sec reducing drastically the Mesmer healing potential and we don't even take count the healing nerf of the trait

This will end up with either people don't playin Mesmer healer anymore or more Chronomancer with healing wells

 

in the other hand the heal now will be instant and no after 2 sec channel so with 2 mantras we can do 4 instant healing before cooldown

Edited May 5, 2021 by Jerasa.9086

[Sodeni.6041]

Mantras should have a larger cooldown if you use the last charge but it should still become an ammunition skill that recovers over time.

 

The more potent effect of the last charge like firebrand had should also apply to mesmer so you have more "is it worth using" scenarios and more gameplay that evolves around it, so a tradeoff of a more potent skill but with a larger cooldown. Or you can choose to keep the last charge and wait for a faster recharge on it.

 

Thus, it would have more uniqueness and resource management compared to normal ammunition skills and it would still feel better to use and not as annoying as old mantras because you don't have to prepare them anymore. But soon they will just be an ammunition skill like all others which is bad imo.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Sodeni.6041

[Chrolo.8536]

The firebrand mantras will lose the property that the last charge is stronger with the upcoming patch.

I think it would have been good if they would add some of the charge up effects to the activation of the mantra itself.

So that mantra of pain would also give a few stacks of might on activation (maybe 6 stacks for 5 seconds) and power cleanse would maybe additionally cleanse 1 or 2 more condis on the mesmer only etc. Since it is not in the patch notes, I assume that they just removed the charge up without doing any additional changes to the mantras themselves, which is a pitty.

 

I really like the change to the mantra healing trait, tough. We will see how viable it is but I can imagine that it is quite good with 2 mantras equipped and healing power. I will try out a staff/staff plague doctor/seraph hybrid support build with dueling/inspiration/mirage. I think the build will be able to give perma fury (with rune of the pack), might, alacrity, decent condi damage and healing. On top of that, staff got a lot better and you will be able to give aegis and interrupt enemies quit often. It's nothing for competitive modes but something I will certainly enjoy for fun in open world, dungeons, drms, guild missions etc.

 

Quote

The more potent effect of the last charge like firebrand had should also apply to mesmer so you have more "is it worth using" scenarios and more gameplay that evolves around it, so a tradeoff of a more potent skill but with a larger cooldown. Or you can choose to keep the last charge and wait for a faster recharge on it.

 

I agree that this would be more interesting game play wise. Another option, I saw it commented online somewhere, would be that the first charge is always stronger, if you have not used the other charges. So the mantra would get weaker, if you used it more often and in quick succession. This would make them unique compared to shouts (because that's what they will be after the patch) and would "make sense" with the idea of mantras I think - when you release the stored up power (concentration of your will), you will get weaker/exhausted.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Chrolo.8536

[Quadox.7834]

The good part is that they finally killed the degen PU stealth mantra of pain oneshot playstyle.

[Leonidrex.5649]

it was already dead after feb, the moment they fixed F3 stun it was goners.
@Quadox.7834
Personally I think mantras should be channeled skills, you hold and release, the longer you hold the more powerfull the effect.
And the effect would depend on the channel depending on the skill.
For example the longer you channel daze mantra, the shorter the recharge of it will be, the longer you charge mantra of pain, the more damage, and vulnerability, or extra hits.
Cleansing mantra would cleanse 1 condi every 0,5s and release would cleanse depending on how long you charged it.
But all of them could still be tapped to get their effect, albeit much smaller. 
Just my 2 cents to make mantras more interesting.

[Veprovina.4876]

The patch notes either weren't detailing the exact change to the mantra mechanics and there will be more when it comes live (like recharge times, ammo count etc, shifting some of the charge up effects to the trigger), or this was a very lazy update by just removing the charge up effects and leaving us with just the weak trigger effect. 

If it's the latter and no change has been made to the recharge times and effects of the trigger part - then mantras are dead.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

 

8 hours ago, Jerasa.9086 said:

in the other hand the heal now will be instant and no after 2 sec channel so with 2 mantras we can do 4 instant healing before cooldown

There are internal cooldowns between charges and the heals are 50% less.  So with 2 mantras it's 2 instant heals equal to 1 preparation from before. Then waiting 1 or more seconds to be able to use another charge from each. 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Quadox.7834]

5 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

it was already dead after feb, the moment they fixed F3 stun it was goners.
@Quadox.7834
Personally I think mantras should be channeled skills, you hold and release, the longer you hold the more powerfull the effect.
And the effect would depend on the channel depending on the skill.
For example the longer you channel daze mantra, the shorter the recharge of it will be, the longer you charge mantra of pain, the more damage, and vulnerability, or extra hits.
Cleansing mantra would cleanse 1 condi every 0,5s and release would cleanse depending on how long you charged it.
But all of them could still be tapped to get their effect, albeit much smaller. 
Just my 2 cents to make mantras more interesting.

Watch RIPs stream VoDs, you will still see plenty of stealth oneshots (or near oneshots, depending on their armor & boons)

[Mungo Zen.9364]

I think the Mantra changes are pretty alright.

 

Though they are taking away the 'charge up' part of the Mantra, it means we gain faster access to the Ammo skills.  I won't have to stop for 2 seconds to charge a Mantra during combat, but can go straight to the ammo, that is a good trade IMO.

 

I imagine we will see balancing on the recharge timer for these skills as opposed to added (or removed) utility or damage.  

 

 

As for the change to Restorative Mantras, this is also a buff in my mind as it changes from "on charge up" to "on use of ammo skill".  Meaning if you sat on the Ammo to avoid the charge up, Restorative Mantras was never going to be used.  Now the Trait has a lot more utility.

 

Although I have leaned heavily on Mantra of Restoration and have used Mantra of Pain periodically, this change to Mantra's will actually get me to revisit them.

 

 

 

[Justine.6351]

Yeah I am not sure how to feel about mantra of distraction losing its 12 second recharge and recharge reduction to f3.

[Quadox.7834]

On 5/5/2021 at 5:42 PM, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I think the Mantra changes are pretty alright.

 

Though they are taking away the 'charge up' part of the Mantra, it means we gain faster access to the Ammo skills.  I won't have to stop for 2 seconds to charge a Mantra during combat, but can go straight to the ammo, that is a good trade IMO.

 

I imagine we will see balancing on the recharge timer for these skills as opposed to added (or removed) utility or damage.  

 

 

As for the change to Restorative Mantras, this is also a buff in my mind as it changes from "on charge up" to "on use of ammo skill".  Meaning if you sat on the Ammo to avoid the charge up, Restorative Mantras was never going to be used.  Now the Trait has a lot more utility.

 

Although I have leaned heavily on Mantra of Restoration and have used Mantra of Pain periodically, this change to Mantra's will actually get me to revisit them.

 

 

 

You mean for PvE I presume?

[Daniel Handler.4816]

Well kitten me.

MoR has a 40 second cooldown.

[Alpha.1308]

why in the holy butts are mantras just trashy shouts now since they can't even use trooper runes?

like i seriously would like some of these "competitive pvp balance devs" to explain this garbage nonsense to me 

  

55 minutes ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Well kitten me.

MoR has a 40 second cooldown.

freaking seriously 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

The mantras are 24 seconds per charge now. HUUUUUUUUGE nerf.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

1 hour ago, Alpha.1308 said:

why in the holy butts are mantras just trashy shouts now since they can't even use trooper runes?

like i seriously would like some of these "competitive pvp balance devs" to explain this garbage nonsense to me 

  

freaking seriously 

@Fire Attunement.9835

 

mantra of recovery's best case scenario (below 50% health) now heals less than ether feast's worst case (no illusions) and has double the cooldown. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Well kitten me.

MoR has a 40 second cooldown.

If it's true then it's basically unplayable.

[Jaykay.9641]

Was waiting to judge until patch dropped, but the mantra changes are terrible. Bloated CD's, Mantra of Pain isn't spam-able anymore, Mantra of distraction has same CD for charge and between casts. I don't have exact value, but Restorative Mantra trait coefficient was also nerfed ( was 1.0 previously) Really sad as I was hoping a heal/support Chrono would be viable in sPvP with the Mantra changes; something similar to Healbreaker. But not with these CD's and coefficients for the mantras.

 

On top of that, the Chaos traitline has 2 (!!!!!!) traits on major line for the staff with Chaotic Potency and Chaotic Transference. T E R R I B L E design. Ugh.... so disappointed. Hopefully we can get a balance patch after they get data from PvP mini season and WvW XP event.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

The CD are the same as before for the Ammo skills.  Not sure this is as engaging to play with as I had envisioned.  The gameplay is in fact boring, without having to make a decision about using the skills outside of "do I need to use this now or not?"

 

I do like streamlined playstyles but, I don't care for boring AA style abilities and Mantras are pretty close to AA level of skill with this change. 

 

This will help newer players I am sure, having a simple option for stun breaks and condi cleanses.  It feels like we were dumbed down and nerfed for no reason.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Senqu.8054]

Guys, are you seriously thinking that even with a huge buff to mantras they would be anywhere near as viable as kitten like null field, feedback, Portal or not to mention other specs where 90% of the weapon skills are not useless in Zerg fights? You take max 2 mantras in your build because all other utility slots are gone for blink + mentioned above. The change to mantras killed them. There is no way to play 4 mantras because other utility skills are much more needed. It would be smarter to push for wells at this point…

 

P.S. if you really want an support Mesmer, wish for a 2 hand weapon designed for it. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Senqu.8054

[XenesisII.1540]

these devs.....

 

Mantra of Recovery

Cooldown: 1s

Healing: 1640

Healing below 50%: 2620

Maximum count: 2

Count recharge: 20s

Can get condition remove and extra group healing with trait

 

Mantra of Solace

Cooldown: 1s

Healing: 1478

Aegis for allies 2s

Maximum count: 3

Count recharge: 12s

Can get 20% recharge reduction with trait

 

Now let that be a lesson on which class they love and which they hate.

 

[Shadowcat.4397]

I will add here:

Mantra of Recovery hps -> 1640/20=82 h/s

Regen (0 healing ) -> 130 h/s

Healing Signet (0 healing) -> 344 h/s

 

True -  "Balance Pach" !!!!

I think they didnt even Login on Mesmer to test it 😞 lol or they dont know that Mesmer is class in ther game mb ?

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Personally, I dislike the Mantra changes as well. This is especially true for healing. Pretty obvious it's a nerf.

[Junkpile.7439]

I like this change. 😎