Follow Up to May 11 Balance Preview

[Fire Attunement.9835]

A message from the Guild Wars 2 Systems Team:

 

Last week we posted a preview of the May 11 Skills and balance update and have since been keeping a close eye on the discussions (and memes) regarding the planned changes. Now that we’ve had time to read and discuss your feedback, we want to share some of our observations and the changes we’re making as a result. This goes without saying, but we do truly appreciate the feedback and your passion for the game!

 

Most notably, we’ve seen concerns that Firebrand will negatively impact group composition diversity – especially in Fractals. We’ve also observed that Condition Firebrand is an outlier as a condition build with the ability to deal burst damage nearly as fast as power build, largely due to the current functionality of Ashes of the Just, which would lead to it ‘double dipping’ from the changes to the Exposed boss debuff. Finally, there have been some good questions about how the Firebrand trait ‘Weighty Terms’ will function with mantras, Ranger’s ‘Clarion Bond’, and concerns about Condition Revenant builds outperforming in PvE with the changes to Torment.
 

After taking the time to investigate these concerns, we have prepared the following changes and clarifications for the May 11 Balance Update.

Guardian

Firebrand

• Ashes of the Just: Now may only activate and consume a stack with an interval of once per second.
• Chapter 2: Igniting Burst: PvE only changes - Burning stacks applied reduced from 2 to 1. Base duration of Burning increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Weighty Terms: Now occurs on any Mantra use, not only the final charge. Now inflicts Slow instead of Immobilize. (1.5s, 10s ICD)
• Stoic Demeanor: Now also procs on inflicting Slow.

 

Revenant
Corruption

• Invoke Torment: Torment stacks applied reduced from 2 to 1 in PvE only. This matches the number of stacks applied in PvP and WvW.
• Diabolic Inferno: Poison and Burning stacks applied reduced from 2 to 1 in PvE only. This matches the number of stacks applied in PvP and WvW.
   

Mace

•  Anguish Swipe: Reduce Torment duration from 5s to 3s in PvE only.
• Misery Swipe: Reduce Torment duration from 5s to 3s in PvE only.

Legendary Demon Stance

• Pain absorption: Now also applies resolution to the caster with a duration of 5 seconds.

 

Ranger

Marksmanship

• Clarion Bond: Lesser Call of the Wild does not Daze targets.

 

We’ll continue to monitor balance between now and End of Dragons and make additional adjustments as needed.

 

Until next time,

 

-The Guild Wars 2 Systems Team

[Grimjack.8130]

Great additions to the patch, fixes almost all of the concerns I had!

[Skiiney.7290]

peepoHappy

[saerni.2584]

26 minutes ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

A message from the Guild Wars 2 Systems Team:

 

Last week we posted a preview of the May 11 Skills and balance update and have since been keeping a close eye on the discussions (and memes) regarding the planned changes. Now that we’ve had time to read and discuss your feedback, we want to share some of our observations and the changes we’re making as a result. This goes without saying, but we do truly appreciate the feedback and your passion for the game!

 

Most notably, we’ve seen concerns that Firebrand will negatively impact group composition diversity – especially in Fractals. We’ve also observed that Condition Firebrand is an outlier as a condition build with the ability to deal burst damage nearly as fast as power build, largely due to the current functionality of Ashes of the Just, which would lead to it ‘double dipping’ from the changes to the Exposed boss debuff. Finally, there have been some good questions about how the Firebrand trait ‘Weighty Terms’ will function with mantras, Ranger’s ‘Clarion Bond’, and concerns about Condition Revenant builds outperforming in PvE with the changes to Torment.
 

After taking the time to investigate these concerns, we have prepared the following changes and clarifications for the May 11 Balance Update.

Guardian

Firebrand

• Ashes of the Just: Now may only activate and consume a stack with an interval of once per second.
• Chapter 2: Igniting Burst: PvE only changes - Burning stacks applied reduced from 2 to 1. Base duration of Burning increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Weighty Terms: Now occurs on any Mantra use, not only the final charge. Now inflicts Slow instead of Immobilize. (1.5s, 10s ICD)
• Stoic Demeanor: Now also procs on inflicting Slow.

 

Revenant
Corruption

• Invoke Torment: Torment stacks applied reduced from 2 to 1 in PvE only. This matches the number of stacks applied in PvP and WvW.
• Diabolic Inferno: Poison and Burning stacks applied reduced from 2 to 1 in PvE only. This matches the number of stacks applied in PvP and WvW.
   

Mace

•  Anguish Swipe: Reduce Torment duration from 5s to 3s in PvE only.
• Misery Swipe: Reduce Torment duration from 5s to 3s in PvE only.

Legendary Demon Stance

• Pain absorption: Now also applies resolution to the caster with a duration of 5 seconds.

 

Ranger

• Marksmanship
• Clarion Bond: Lesser Call of the Wild does not Daze targets.

 

We’ll continue to monitor balance between now and End of Dragons and make additional adjustments as needed.

 

Until next time,

 

-The Guild Wars 2 Systems Team

 

Can the Systems Team also comment on Preparedness and Deadly Ambush for Thief?

 

The phrasing of the changes seemed to suggest removing the 3 Initiative on Preparedness and also somewhat implied that Deadly Ambush would apply both confusion as well as the bleed effects.

 

The expectation of several players, including myself, was that removing the Initiative would be a fairly significant nerf to Thief playability (and would have been mentioned explicitly) and also the belief that Deadly Ambush was replacing Bewildering Ambush (but the word "also" was used for Deadly Ambush and notably not for Preparedness). 

 

Thanks!

Edited May 5, 2021 by saerni.2584

[Janitsu.6284]

Has the feedback regarding Soulcleave's Summit and Exposed change reached the systems team?

[Skiiney.7290]

1 minute ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

Has the feedback regarding Soulcleave's Summit and Exposed change reached the systems team?

Right it has to be nerfed even more, make it 3s icd. 

[Greaka.6905]

It would be great if the staff weaver would be viable again in pve. There isn't a single place that would favor it over the sword variants.

[TheThief.8475]

27 minutes ago, saerni.2584 said:

 

How do I delete a post? Lul

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by TheThief.8475
Want to delete because of wrong quote

[TheThief.8475]

43 minutes ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

A message from the Guild Wars 2 Systems Team:

 

Last week we posted a preview of the May 11 Skills and balance update and have since been keeping a close eye on the discussions (and memes) regarding the planned changes. Now that we’ve had time to read and discuss your feedback, we want to share some of our observations and the changes we’re making as a result. This goes without saying, but we do truly appreciate the feedback and your passion for the game!

 

Most notably, we’ve seen concerns that Firebrand will negatively impact group composition diversity – especially in Fractals. We’ve also observed that Condition Firebrand is an outlier as a condition build with the ability to deal burst damage nearly as fast as power build, largely due to the current functionality of Ashes of the Just, which would lead to it ‘double dipping’ from the changes to the Exposed boss debuff. Finally, there have been some good questions about how the Firebrand trait ‘Weighty Terms’ will function with mantras, Ranger’s ‘Clarion Bond’, and concerns about Condition Revenant builds outperforming in PvE with the changes to Torment.
 

After taking the time to investigate these concerns, we have prepared the following changes and clarifications for the May 11 Balance Update.

Guardian

Firebrand

• Ashes of the Just: Now may only activate and consume a stack with an interval of once per second.
• Chapter 2: Igniting Burst: PvE only changes - Burning stacks applied reduced from 2 to 1. Base duration of Burning increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Weighty Terms: Now occurs on any Mantra use, not only the final charge. Now inflicts Slow instead of Immobilize. (1.5s, 10s ICD)
• Stoic Demeanor: Now also procs on inflicting Slow.

 

Revenant
Corruption

• Invoke Torment: Torment stacks applied reduced from 2 to 1 in PvE only. This matches the number of stacks applied in PvP and WvW.
• Diabolic Inferno: Poison and Burning stacks applied reduced from 2 to 1 in PvE only. This matches the number of stacks applied in PvP and WvW.
   

Mace

•  Anguish Swipe: Reduce Torment duration from 5s to 3s in PvE only.
• Misery Swipe: Reduce Torment duration from 5s to 3s in PvE only.

Legendary Demon Stance

• Pain absorption: Now also applies resolution to the caster with a duration of 5 seconds.

 

Ranger

Marksmanship

• Clarion Bond: Lesser Call of the Wild does not Daze targets.

 

We’ll continue to monitor balance between now and End of Dragons and make additional adjustments as needed.

 

Until next time,

 

-The Guild Wars 2 Systems Team

Thanks for the updates! :3

 

May we also have some clarifications about thief traits changes? 

A lot of people (me included) are not sure about the effects that were added (or changed?) In traits

 

Thanks again for the update

[XenesisII.1540]

😒

[supreme.3602]

Bruh, give Staff Weaver some buffs already. We know you hate the class, but give us a break.

[Lizardguard.2860]

First of all, a big THANK YOU to listen to some feedback. It really feels good to have concerns adressed and in such timely manner as well.

All i can add is what others have already written and suggested, some of which is easy to change, some of which you can keep in mind for the next balance patch:

1. Soulcleave nerf feels a bit heavy, it probably kills of rev heal in raids. Maybe try 0.75 or 0.5 icd. (it used to be 0.25, and the nerf was good, don´t get me wrong).

2. Banner warrior feels very awkward with such low amounts of Precision. Dps Warri feels awkward in general.
Some people suggested moving the banner trait into tactics, since this would make thematically sense as well as split up the build paths of banner and Dps Warri. No way ever is banner Warri taking tactics over discipline right now. Therefore BS and DPS Warri still play much the same and both are sad.

3. Power Soulbeasts feel bad. Maybe consider nerfing sustained damage instead of the class defining burst. Also the cooldown increase of OWP hurts not only power, but the already rather weak condi slb as well in addition to screwing the previously pretty smooth rotation. Nerfing the on-hit damage of dagger and maybe sword in addition to only a light touch on sic em (like down to 35% maybe) would probably have led to a more positive response from the community in that regard.

4. Heal Eles feel bad, since heal scrappers have gotten quickness (which was a really good change for PvE at least), and mirages have gotten alacrity (?), while the Eles get nothing. Many agree that Heal Eles would have deserved the Alac more.

5. Revenants Legend Mallyx Utility skills needs to be looked at with the resistance changes. A skill that literally kills you whenever it should be the most effective is a huge feels bad.

As an additional remark, i feel like Elementalist as a whole could actually benefit from a bit more love from the balance team.

But once again, thanks for the update from you guys. It is really appreciated.
Lizard

Edited May 5, 2021 by Lizardguard.2860
Minor typos and additions. Also added the mallyx concern.

[SkylightMoon.1980]

Thank you for listening to the feedback from everyone, this was a good job on your part. Really happy with these changes!

[shadowpass.4236]

Is the unblockable on lesser call of the wild still going to stay if the daze is going away?  Ranger isn't meta and keeps on receiving nerfs over and over.

 

There have been so many options, skills, and effects removed from ranger by now that I feel like I'm playing half the class I used to compared to what ranger had 2-3 years ago.

 

Removed:

1. Greatsword auto evades

2. Greatsword crippling throw

3. Knockback range from greatsword 4

4. Combat pet swap on soulbeast

5. Damage on really important pet cc abilities like Gazelle F2 which is a nerf to 1/4th of its kit

6. etc. etc.

7. And now the 2 stacks of unblockable on lesser call of the wild?

 

Not to mention the balance team basically increased or doubled the cooldowns on:

1. Maul from 4s to 8s

2. Swoop from 12s to 18s

3. Counterattack from 15s to 30s

4. Hilt Bash from 20s to 25s

5. Celestial Avatar from 10s to 20s

 

So every single skill on ranger greatsword has had effects removed or nerfed AND its cooldowns increased significantly.  Why????

 

Is anything going to be done to even try and bring ranger into the competitive meta?  Because there have only been a handful of rangers that even made it to the monthly finals and even less that won.

 

My favorite build to play was lb/gs boonbeast with smokescale and gazelle and every single aspect of it has been nerfed so hard the build doesn't even remotely function anymore.

Edited May 5, 2021 by shadowpass.4236

[GuriGashi.5617]

How will the Heal Mantras be changed - I mean I can hardly believe that Mantra of Solace would have three charges of 200HP in PvP. Will the total amount it heals right now be split among the three charges?

Edited May 5, 2021 by snoow.1694

[HeroineDark.6287]

And what happened to the investigation into rune of the trapper? Seems like that dropped off the map.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

Really good change to CFB. Devs did a great job of listening to feedback and incorporating it before the patch hits. Hopefully with this change we'll see more condi viability instead of CFB stacking.

Edited May 5, 2021 by FtoPScrub.5476

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

 

Ranger

Marksmanship

• Clarion Bond: Lesser Call of the Wild does not Daze targets.

 

 

Please keep Clarion Bond/Lesser Call of the Wild exactly as it is now. It is a perfect trait right now, useful, rewards skillfull play (timing/combos) in PvP, offers good synergy with other marksmanship traits, all without being op. Changing it to weakness on pet swap (which i assume is the plan according to the post) just turns the trait into an annoyance, neither fun to use, nor fun to play against. Ranger already has more than enough sources of weakness. If that means splitting the trait from the warhorn skill (means wh trait won't apply), so be it, still would be better than changing/nerfing it.

 

Do NOT destroy fun and pretty balanced builds for absolutely no reason.

 

Edit: That is, if weakness is going to replace current effects? Or is it in addition? Some more clarity would be nice. Either way, i would like to keep the trait as it is now. Split it from WH5 if neccessary.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Perceptor.7189]

What about the 2 sec quickness for scrappers?? Serveral players point out the dificulty of keep a viable stack of quickness with the current duration time, and also since, you guys rework a important trait in wvw, the change in his current state it's more harmfull than usefull... 

[vonhellsing.2819]

Nice, now people knows how necro players fell when read BALANCE words  in anet posts.

[JazzXman.7018]

can you say something to the planned changes to mesmers mantras? in the first patch notes you say you tune stuff around this change (a pve driven change that is overall quite bad for pvp/ wvw since it deletes counterplay from the instant charges by deleting the active recharge what defines mantras as mantra and distinguish them from instant ammo shouts like warrior has, which include less counterplay to the instant ammo skills).

 

but i hope you are aware that mesmer never waited for the overly long count recharges, since they can reset both charges with the active mantra recharge after 12 secs (speaking of mantra of distraction as most important example, for example 24 secs count recharge for nothing else than a short daze is way too long).

 

so the buff with the f3 reset to force mesmers into using both charges and then actively recharge the mantra was already unneeded. the overly long count recharge of currently 24 secs already forced mesmers into using all ammo daze skills on demand and then just fully reset them by the active mantra recharge.

 

means if you delete the active mantra recharge and with that the ability to completely reset the 2 ammo skill cds with it, you rly need to adjust (lower) the current count recharge cd.

 

the current cd for the 2 dazes is 12 secs mantra cd + 2,25 secs active mantra recharge + 4 secs icd between the dazes. means a total of 18.25 secs for 2 dazes. if you wanna increase the cd a little bit bc you deleted counterplay to them (what you rly should rethink in general!) by deleting the active recharge of the mantra, then something like 10-15 secs count recharge on daze mantra would be accurate. otherwise you overnerf the cd for the whole interupt focused playstyle with powerblock what is one of the most interesting and skilled and balanced playstyles with fair counterplay. and deleting this playstyle by cd overnerf of the interupt tools (mantra, f3) would be an insane loss for the game and a hard dumb down.

Edited May 11, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Janitsu.6284]

48 minutes ago, Skiiney.7290 said:

Right it has to be nerfed even more, make it 3s icd. 

i hope you have a nice day :)

[shadowpass.4236]

I think it's ridiculous that the best way to play ranger in comp has been to run decap druid because the rest of our side node options have been nerfed so hard it's basically pointless to run it against any of the meta builds.

 

So imagine the balance team nerfs a class so hard that its is relegated to spamming knockbacks that don't do damage just so we can have some semblance of node presence.

 

... and then the knockbacks get nerfed too.

Edited May 5, 2021 by shadowpass.4236

[Fire Attunement.9835]

58 minutes ago, saerni.2584 said:

 

Can the Systems Team also comment on Preparedness and Deadly Ambush for Thief?

 

The phrasing of the changes seemed to suggest removing the 3 Initiative on Preparedness and also somewhat implied that Deadly Ambush would apply both confusion as well as the bleed effects.

 

The expectation of several players, including myself, was that removing the Initiative would be a fairly significant nerf to Thief playability (and would have been mentioned explicitly) and also the belief that Deadly Ambush was replacing Bewildering Ambush (but the word "also" was used for Deadly Ambush and notably not for Preparedness). 

 

Thanks!

 

To clarify: 

Preparedness before the May 11 update: Increases maximum initiative by 3"

Preparedness after the May 11 update: Increases maximum initiative by 3. Gain increased expertise (150)"

 

Deadly Ambush: "Stealing also applies bleeding. Bleeding you inflict deals more damage (25%)"
It no longer applies the Confusion that the former Bewildering Ambush trait did. 

[saerni.2584]

7 minutes ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

 

To clarify: 

Preparedness before the May 11 update: Increases maximum initiative by 3"

Preparedness after the May 11 update: Increases maximum initiative by 3. Gain increased expertise (150)"

 

Deadly Ambush: "Stealing also applies bleeding. Bleeding you inflict deals more damage (25%)"
It no longer applies the Confusion that the former Bewildering Ambush trait did. 

 

Thanks for the quick reply!