In wvw your 5 seconds of -33% isnt going to make pain absorption not a suicide button.

[Doctor.1384]

This skill needs a unique buff or needs to be reworked, and if it gets reworked to not pull condis off allies it messes with mallyxs corruption theme and then the lack of condis would make it need a heal skill rework. Game consists of modes other than pve. Unique buff is the way to go

[lodjur.1284]

No. Legit just pay some attention before you hit buttons, even without resolution added I had no problems with the design of pain absorption cause I can simply look what people around me got before I use it. 

 

Invulns are a crutch, them getting removed is fantastic for the game.

 

Sorry your nothing but pain abso spam then f2 for the 1-shot playstyle is dead. But it was a blight upon the game.

Edited May 6, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Virdo.1540]

They could simply give "demonic Resistance" give an condi dmg reduction instead of power dmg reduction.

 

The corruption traitline doesnt need something for power dmg.

[lodjur.1284]

14 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

They could simply give "demonic Resistance" give an condi dmg reduction instead of power dmg reduction.

 

The corruption traitline doesnt need something for power dmg.

Would make a weak trait even weaker, unless they bumped the numbers and at some point it would enable Transfer Herald again, which would be a disaster.

 

But honestly the entire demon traitline could use a full rework. None of the tiers have any particularly interesting traits atm

Edited May 7, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Kreed.2768]

Maybe they should add some unique flavor to it to compensate pulling potentially massive amounts of condies off of allies. Just spit balling here, but what about a unique one buff that applies for a few seconds when transferring condies from allies to self, perhaps giving a stack per ally you pull condies from, giving you something like increased condi damage. I'm sure this specific idea would probably end up getting exploited in raids or something, but the point is that I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of a reward for this potentially "risky" to use stun breaker. Is there actually any other stun breaker that works similar to PA in the game, even? 

[lodjur.1284]

16 minutes ago, Kreed.2768 said:

Maybe they should add some unique flavor to it to compensate pulling potentially massive amounts of condies off of allies. Just spit balling here, but what about a unique one buff that applies for a few seconds when transferring condies from allies to self, perhaps giving a stack per ally you pull condies from, giving you something like increased condi damage. I'm sure this specific idea would probably end up getting exploited in raids or something, but the point is that I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of a reward for this potentially "risky" to use stun breaker. Is there actually any other stun breaker that works similar to PA in the game, even? 

There's no risk to stunbreaking with it. 

 

Just cancel the skill with stow weapon/hammering esc/weapon swap/dodging. If you don't wanna do more than stunbreak.

 

A redesign would be welcome but the skill will hardly be useless/suicide post patch if one uses their head.

 

Also because you asked

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Save_Yourselves!"

 

Stunbreak that has the same effect (but way bigger)

Edited May 7, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Kreed.2768]

2 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

There's no risk to stunbreaking with it. 

 

Just cancel the skill with stow weapon/hammering esc/weapon swap/dodging. If you don't wanna do more than stunbreak.

 

A redesign would be welcome but the skill will hardly be useless/suicide post patch if one uses their head.

 

Also because you asked

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Save_Yourselves!"

 

Stunbreak that has the same effect (but way bigger)

 

So you can cancel out of it? Well, that's dumb. 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 5/6/2021 at 12:29 PM, Doctor.1384 said:

This skill needs a unique buff or needs to be reworked, and if it gets reworked to not pull condis off allies it messes with mallyxs corruption theme and then the lack of condis would make it need a heal skill rework. Game consists of modes other than pve. Unique buff is the way to go

 

it  kinda feels more scourgy while Barrier feels more guardian'ish  :\

 

Base 2 sec for +1 sec imo its a buff ;P

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[lodjur.1284]

6 minutes ago, Kreed.2768 said:

 

So you can cancel out of it? Well, that's dumb. 

Ye, the stunbreak is at the start of the cast, the other effects are at the end

[Aeolus.3615]

Just now, lodjur.1284 said:

Ye, the stunbreak is at the start of the cast, the other effects are at the end

 

its nice to pull condis if u can spread them to others :)

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

2 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

There's no risk to stunbreaking with it. 

 

Just cancel the skill with stow weapon/hammering esc/weapon swap/dodging. If you don't wanna do more than stunbreak.

 

A redesign would be welcome but the skill will hardly be useless/suicide post patch if one uses their head.

 

Also because you asked

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/"Save_Yourselves!"

 

Stunbreak that has the same effect (but way bigger)

 

The way you keep replying to this post and how you're wording it makes you sound very condescending. Just because YOU have no problem going around a skill's terrible design flaws doesn't mean it doesn't have them and shouldn't be changed. The big difference between save yourselves and pain absorption is that Revenant CANNOT change their utility skills. They're tied to your kit, it's a package deal. It's also your only stunbreak out of a possible 2 (generally each legend has one). And again, you cannot pick and choose.

 

This skill NEEDS to be redesigned with the resistance change, period. 

[Dadnir.5038]

16 minutes ago, Vennyhedgie.5369 said:

 

The way you keep replying to this post and how you're wording it makes you sound very condescending. Just because YOU have no problem going around a skill's terrible design flaws doesn't mean it doesn't have them and shouldn't be changed. The big difference between save yourselves and pain absorption is that Revenant CANNOT change their utility skills. They're tied to your kit, it's a package deal. It's also your only stunbreak out of a possible 2 (generally each legend has one). And again, you cannot pick and choose.

 

This skill NEEDS to be redesigned with the resistance change, period. 

 

Honnestly, I disagree and think Lodjur is right here.

 

Between cleansing channel, permeating pestilence, true nature, righteous rebel or simply breakrazor bastion, the revenant have way to deal with this change to resistance/resolve. In fact, the necromancer have been dealing with such mechanism since a long time already and it work just fine.

 

Pain absorption is a valuable stun break that have the advantage of not having a CD (and it's an unique perk of the revenant) which probably justify the risk. Not to forget that from ANet's devs point of view when you have the ability to transfert condition having a way to put condition on you is something valuable.

[lodjur.1284]

3 minutes ago, Vennyhedgie.5369 said:

 

The way you keep replying to this post and how you're wording it makes you sound very condescending. Just because YOU have no problem going around a skill's terrible design flaws doesn't mean it doesn't have them and shouldn't be changed. The big difference between save yourselves and pain absorption is that Revenant CANNOT change their utility skills. They're tied to your kit, it's a package deal. It's also your only stunbreak out of a possible 2 (generally each legend has one). And again, you cannot pick and choose.

 

This skill NEEDS to be redesigned with the resistance change, period. 

Legends have stronger and weaker skills, that's how they're designed.

 

I wouldn't mind a redesign of Pain Absorption because I rarely use the skill. In fact I would like it, but if my options are, current version or next patch version. It's a very easy choice, I'd much rather have the next patch version.

 

Any kind of condescension is in your head, I don't look down on anyone here, I am giving helpful advice about how one can use the skill if one needs it at as a stunbreak but for whatever reason don't want the actual effect. 

 

7 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

its nice to pull condis if u can spread them to others 🙂

Which is exactly what this patch is aimed at nerfing finally.

[Zoser.7245]

On 5/6/2021 at 1:57 PM, lodjur.1284 said:

No. Legit just pay some attention before you hit buttons, even without resolution added I had no problems with the design of pain absorption cause I can simply look what people around me got before I use it. 

 

Invulns are a crutch, them getting removed is fantastic for the game.

 

Sorry your nothing but pain abso spam then f2 for the 1-shot playstyle is dead. But it was a blight upon the game.

 

Less the people at your party you don't have a clue of how many contidions and stacks people around you have.  So the fact that have people around you, which is very common despite the game mode means that you must ignore that skill and more if you are not using Pain Absorption show clearly that the skill is now bad designed.

 

Anyways the majority will now prefer the sustain from other trait lines and find the extra damage from other sources. Corruption and Mallyx will be highly ignored after the patch. With the right build and compotision you also can ignore conditions. The last update even make them less desirable even for PvE with more nerfs to condition revenants:

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/95207-follow-up-to-may-11-balance-preview/#comments

 

The torment change is also a big nerf for competitive modes where everyone keeps moving all the time.  Now it seems more a tank/bruiser condition, not for squishy build outside PvE Raids that need be in movement and kiting.  Making Mirage axe even an undesirable weapon lol and more with the single dodge. It also doesn't make sense put it in ranged weapons, the staff mesmer will be too weak if not used by a Mirage and also weak when might is available in your party.  I loved the Renegade  shortbow Sevenshot skill as an opener-start skill. After the patch it will lose a lot potential for clean/kill enemies running to you.

 

I will change and adapt my builds, for sure.  And depending of the results even reroll why not. I have all professions so the most optimal for each mode will be choosed.  In the past, i was defending mesmer against countless nerfs and no sense changes. But it was a lost cause, so now i simply reroll to the most effective professions/specializations when things change to an undesirable state.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[Aeolus.3615]

6 minutes ago, lodjur.1284 said:

 

Legends have stronger and weaker skills, that's how they're designed.

 

I wouldn't mind a redesign of Pain Absorption because I rarely use the skill. In fact I would like it, but if my options are, current version or next patch version. It's a very easy choice, I'd much rather have the next patch version.

 

Any kind of condescension is in your head, I don't look down on anyone here, I am giving helpful advice about how one can use the skill if one needs it at as a stunbreak but for whatever reason don't want the actual effect. 

 

Which is exactly what this patch is aimed at nerfing finally.

 

How so?

 Pain Absortion will only be a aoe stun break with resistance?

 

3sec with minstrell will become arround 6 sec, plus stacking from other sources wich will be aroround more 6 seconds, that will be alot of resistance!

 

Im seeing lot of soft CC invulnerability window.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[lodjur.1284]

Just now, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

How so?

 Pain Absortion will only be a aoe stun break with resistance?

Pain Absorption is not an AoE stunbreak.

 

They're nerfing resistance, this prevents the spam Pain Abso > Sit with 50+ stacks of all dmging condis without taking dmg > Hit True Nature - Demon, instagib everyone around you playstyle

 

1 minute ago, Zoser.7245 said:

 

Less the people at your party you don't have a clue of how many contidions and stacks people around you have.  So the fact that have people around you, which is very common despite the game mode means that you must ignore that skill and more if you are not using Pain Absorption show clearly that the skill is now bad designed.

 

Anyways the majority will now prefer the sustain from other trait lines and find the extra damage from other sources. Corruption and Mallyx will be highly ignored after the patch. With the right build and compotision you also can ignore conditions. The last update even make them less desirable even for PvE with more nerfs to condition revenants:

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/95207-follow-up-to-may-11-balance-preview/#comments

 

The torment change is also a big nerf for competitive modes where everyone keeps moving all the time.  Now it seems more a tank/bruiser condition, not for squishy build outside PvE Raids that need be in movement and kitting.  Making Mirage axe even an undesirable weapon lol and more with the single dodge. It also doesn't make sense put it in ranged weapons, the staff mesmer will be too weah if not used by a Mirage and also weak when might is available in your party.  I loved the Renegade  shortbow Sevenshot skill as an opener-start skill. After the patch it will lose a lot potential for clean/kill enemies running to you.

 

Paying attention to your surroundings is a crucial skill (in any combat situation, be it in a game or not). 

 

Corruption will probably still be worth picking up on Condi Renegade (on core there's no question really), but it does push it closer to retribution in terms of power, especially with retribution now potentially having a 10% dmg modifier. Overall the immunity to immob (and all that) together with the condi duration+stats and better condi management overall still pushes corruption to be a bit better I imagine, but will probably test out both.

 

Mallyx ofc isn't going anywhere

 

Ignoring condis will be harder post-patch than pre-patch. Ofc still possible tho.

 

Torment change is a bit of a nerf, but one condi rev can survive, increased cleave damage and damage while CCed almost makes up for losing damage to moving targets

[Zoser.7245]

17 minutes ago, lodjur.1284 said:

Pain Absorption is not an AoE stunbreak.

 

They're nerfing resistance, this prevents the spam Pain Abso > Sit with 50+ stacks of all dmging condis without taking dmg > Hit True Nature - Demon, instagib everyone around you playstyle

 

 

Paying attention to your surroundings is a crucial skill (in any combat situation, be it in a game or not). 

 

Corruption will probably still be worth picking up on Condi Renegade (on core there's no question really), but it does push it closer to retribution in terms of power, especially with retribution now potentially having a 10% dmg modifier. Overall the immunity to immob (and all that) together with the condi duration+stats and better condi management overall still pushes corruption to be a bit better I imagine, but will probably test out both.

 

Mallyx ofc isn't going anywhere

 

Ignoring condis will be harder post-patch than pre-patch. Ofc still possible tho.

 

Torment change is a bit of a nerf, but one condi rev can survive, increased cleave damage and damage while CCed almost makes up for losing damage to moving targets

Obviously increasing the resistance duration will help to ignore the soft CC more time. Which is important in competitive modes,  but the sustain of the other trait lines along with the added enhancements make them more desirable. There are several ways to obtain the necessary condition cleaning. But the sustain is only going to come to you mainly from the trait lines and the torment runes if you go to conditions. So choose the right trait line is the most important. Well, depending the build a bit from some food too.  Everything counts.

 

I will also test all, of course. And then choose the most optimal build i can find to be effective killing and surviving. Few days more and the odyssey will start, again.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[lodjur.1284]

Just now, Zoser.7245 said:

Obviously increasing the resistance duration will help to ignore the soft CC more time. Which is important in competitive modes,  but the sustain of the other trait lines along with the added enhancements make them more desirable. There are several ways to obtain the necessary condition cleaning. But the sustain is only going to come to you mainly from the trait lines and the torment runes if you go to conditions. Well depending the build a bit from some food too.  Everything counts.

 

I will also test all, of course. And then choose the most optimal build i can find to be effective killing and surviving. Few days more and the odyssey will start, again.

Ye, I mean I was mostly talking about condi (as we're talking Mallyx/Corruption etc) which does mean torment runes

 

If I didn't have a dedicated healer the choice would probably be harder and might lean more towards retribution past changes

 

Exciting to have some changes finally

[Thornwolf.9721]

At this stage Id say that the traitline as well the legend needs to be reworked. It in of itself will be unusable in competitive modes and will be complete garbo; I know a ton of people who are just dropping the whole class. Recently having come back i've fallen back in love with my revenant but I can't imagine having grown attached to condi-rev only to have this happen. Im glad its good for PvE even though thats the mode that sees the least of my attention. 

A shame its gonna be worthless in WvW and PvP. Was fun while it lasted, hope you're ready for every counter that condi rev handled becoming a HUGE problem leading toward the expansion. Im sure power rev is right behind it for nerfs knowing how things typically go~

[Spartacus.3192]

4 hours ago, Zoser.7245 said:

 

I will change and adapt my builds, for sure.  And depending of the results even reroll why not. I have all professions so the most optimal for each mode will be choosed.  In the past, i was defending mesmer against countless nerfs and no sense changes. But it was a lost cause, so now i simply reroll to the most effective professions/specializations when things change to an undesirable state.

This is the best way to look at this game. I used to be a one class main and hated it when ANET nerfed this or that. Eventually i realized it's pointless to resist. So then I switched to learning 4 classes . Now, no matter what ANET does at least one of those 4 classes is in a relatively good spot. 

[lodjur.1284]

52 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

At this stage Id say that the traitline as well the legend needs to be reworked. It in of itself will be unusable in competitive modes and will be complete garbo; I know a ton of people who are just dropping the whole class. Recently having come back i've fallen back in love with my revenant but I can't imagine having grown attached to condi-rev only to have this happen. Im glad its good for PvE even though thats the mode that sees the least of my attention. 

A shame its gonna be worthless in WvW and PvP. Was fun while it lasted, hope you're ready for every counter that condi rev handled becoming a HUGE problem leading toward the expansion. Im sure power rev is right behind it for nerfs knowing how things typically go~

Condi Renegade Main who only plays WvW here.

 

If losing Condi Rev is not gonna be anywhere close to useless. 

 

What they are killing is one specific playstyle on HERALD which deserves all the nerfs it's getting and more. That's the spam pain abso > true nature - demon > instakill 5 people "playstyle".

 

The people dropping condi Rev over these changes are for lack of a better word, weak, the class is still going to be arguably the best damage dealer in a small group (the only place where it was good before the changes anyway. I know many people who main condi rev/ren every single one is happy about the changes, only HERALDS are dropping the class.

 

Looking at this patch I see small nerfs (torment change, no more condi invulns). But amazing buffs relative to the rest, no more enemy heralds keepin entire groups invuln to you while prepping their 1 shot, no more enemy firebrands camping f3 field being invuln to you, massive increase to cleave damage an average of 20% (where arcdps usually puts it) less damage taken in group fights because retal is going away.

 

In addition to this, a lot of other builds are eating far harsher nerfs, burnguard for example essentially got deleted. Meaning that immunity to condi is less important than ever.

 

17 minutes ago, Spartacus.3192 said:

This is the best way to look at this game. I used to be a one class main and hated it when ANET nerfed this or that. Eventually i realized it's pointless to resist. So then I switched to learning 4 classes . Now, no matter what ANET does at least one of those 4 classes is in a relatively good spot. 

So what 4 classes are gonna get nuked into oblivion for your comment filled with such hubris? Comments like this only tempts Anet.

Edited May 7, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Thornwolf.9721]

1 minute ago, lodjur.1284 said:

Condi Renegade Main who only plays WvW here.

 

If losing Condi Rev is not gonna be anywhere close to useless. 

 

What they are killing is one specific playstyle on HERALD which deserves all the nerfs it's getting and more. That's the spam pain abso > true nature - demon > instakill 5 people "playstyle".

 

The people dropping condi Rev over these changes are for lack of a better word, weak, the class is still going to be arguably the best damage dealer in a small group (the only place where it was good before the changes anyway. I know many people who main condi rev/ren every single one is happy about the changes, only HERALDS are dropping the class.

 

Looking at this patch I see small nerfs (torment change, no more condi invulns). But amazing buffs relative to the rest, no more enemy heralds keepin entire groups invuln to you while prepping their 1 shot, no more enemy firebrands camping f3 field being invuln to you, massive increase to cleave damage an average of 20% (where arcdps usually puts it) less damage taken in group fights because retal is going away.

 

In addition to this, a lot of other builds are eating far harsher nerfs, burnguard for example essentially got deleted. Meaning that immunity to condi is less important than ever.

 

So what 4 classes are gonna get nuked into oblivion for your comment filled with such hubris? Comment's like this only tempts Anet.

Dont get it twisted, I play all forms of my Rev as I love the class. Next to messmer its the most unique class in game; Core power and Renegade power builds are gonna be stronk and Im looking forward to it. But I do love herald and I think its kinda lame that herald might fall of entirely. Looking at it now, jalis will have MORE tools and sustain and paired with invocation and devastation will be likely fun to play.

Renegade will outshine herald in damage, and run the same legend set-up as core likely. With higher numbers and taking jalis, invo and renegade traitlines for their bonuses and the addition of SB which in my opinion is WAY better than hammer as a power ranged wep.  I personally dont think ANYONE or ANY spec should be unplayable, and while I think that condi rev was degenerate in its own right (Herald variant is what I mean) Its no worse than condi messmer or condi thief? Like every class has a build thats bleck to deal with. Making them unplayable isn't the answer, or making them weak as it comes also isn't the answer... herald has long needed a rework and now I think Mallyx will too.

But in the mean time... Ill enjoy persecuting my Condi-rev brethren with power builds. The time of the Power rev is slowly inching upon us lmfao.

[lodjur.1284]

Just now, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Dont get it twisted, I play all forms of my Rev as I love the class. Next to messmer its the most unique class in game; Core power and Renegade power builds are gonna be stronk and Im looking forward to it. But I do love herald and I think its kinda lame that herald might fall of entirely. Looking at it now, jalis will have MORE tools and sustain and paired with invocation and devastation will be likely fun to play.

Renegade will outshine herald in damage, and run the same legend set-up as core likely. With higher numbers and taking jalis, invo and renegade traitlines for their bonuses and the addition of SB which in my opinion is WAY better than hammer as a power ranged wep.  I personally dont think ANYONE or ANY spec should be unplayable, and while I think that condi rev was degenerate in its own right (Herald variant is what I mean) Its no worse than condi messmer or condi thief? Like every class has a build thats bleck to deal with. Making them unplayable isn't the answer, or making them weak as it comes also isn't the answer... herald has long needed a rework and now I think Mallyx will too.

But in the mean time... Ill enjoy persecuting my Condi-rev brethren with power builds. The time of the Power rev is slowly inching upon us lmfao.

Kalla Power Renegade is sadly dead tho because of PvE

 

Condi Rev outside of True Nature - Demon + resistance spam will be completely viable tho (even that might be somewhat viable but no longer completely gamebreakingly busted)

 

The only thing HERALD actually brings to condi rev is easy mode (dragon) and true nature - demon. Otherwise it is and was worse in every regard, so if anyone genuinely like condi rev, there's 2 completely viable version that will still exist.

 

What made herald so bad for the game was it's effect on small-scale and how if even a single player in your group ran condi your entire team would end up getting instant 25 stacks of the relevant condis while doing little to no damage because of pain abso spam, together with being very hard to focus down due to broken infuse light. Condi thief and mesmer are at worst annoying or breaking 1v1, but fights don't go from easy mode to immense challenge cause 1/4 enemy players swapped to it.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

On 5/6/2021 at 1:57 PM, lodjur.1284 said:

No. Legit just pay some attention before you hit buttons, even without resolution added I had no problems with the design of pain absorption cause I can simply look what people around me got before I use it. 

 

Invulns are a crutch, them getting removed is fantastic for the game.

 

Sorry your nothing but pain abso spam then f2 for the 1-shot playstyle is dead. But it was a blight upon the game.

Pay attenton and choose. Do not stunbreak and die under a cc lock or stunbreak and die from conditions you pulled. Lmfao

 

Ive yet to get a reason why revenant is the olny outlier with such kitten skill system. Sword splitting damage among targets, Mallyx healing you extra for every condition on you but at same time also affected by posion and with changed resistance no workout around it. Now PA also pulling conditions on you with no way to protect yourself from insta gib.

 

Cant wait for the torment changes either. Garbage in pvp/wvw and most likely will end up even worse in pve due to all the heavy nerfs they had done. Jfl

Edited May 8, 2021 by Scoobaniec.9561

[lodjur.1284]

1 hour ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Pay attenton and choose. Do not stunbreak and die under a cc lock or stunbreak and die from conditions you pulled. Lmfao

 

Ive yet to get a reason why revenant is the olny outlier with such kitten skill system. Sword splitting damage among targets, Mallyx healing you extra for every condition on you but at same time also affected by posion and with changed resistance no workout around it. Now PA also pulling conditions on you with no way to protect yourself from insta gib.

 

Cant wait for the torment changes either. Garbage in pvp/wvw and most likely will end up even worse in pve due to all the heavy nerfs they had done. Jfl

What's stopping you from stunbreaking and then canceling the skill if you need to? Or planning with a clear in advance? You can have up to 6 clears on a 10 sec cd, that's top tier

 

Pain Abso keeps it's utility as a way to save allies from immobilize. People have said it's a high risk high reward skill, well it wasn't but now it is and people instantly say it's unusable because it has a risk now

 

There's no reason to believe that the healing reduction isn't affected by resistance, but that we will have to wait and see. Unless I missed them specifying in which case I'll eat my words.

 

Torment is a nerf, but not a massive one.

 

Have you considered the ranger class if you want low risk all upside?

 

You're right about sword design being a mystery but kinda off-topic?

 

Condi rev/ren will all things considered arguably be in a better spot next patch, if worse then only marginally so. Removal of resistance from enemies is a huge deal for the class. They're hardly the only class that is getting nerfs either. 

 

If this is whining about HERALD then good riddance, the spec is an abomination.

Edited May 8, 2021 by lodjur.1284