General disappointment with Icebrood Saga

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

playing the game since 2019 the first time again and playing through the Icebrood Saga. First maps are ok but  Drizzlewood Coast. Na thanks. Whats the purpose of the map? some PvE WvWvW/Dragonstand thing?  i dont like it.

i'm playing the story, get every easy Mastery Point and going back do farm something for Vision.

[voltaicbore.8012]

On 5/16/2021 at 4:18 AM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

And again, I'm not exactly sure what you found unfinished. As I mentioned before, Bjora covered pretty much every single major Norn related topic as is.

 

This is pretty much what you're missing - sure, all the elements of what you've listed throughout this thread are there, but they are executed in shoddy fashion. I'll even grant you that it was executed on the same level of care as the other dragon/race stories, which you seem quite hung up on reiterating - that still doesn't change that it was shoddily executed, just because it was just as poorly done as the rest of the game.

 

You (understandably) challenge the disappointed folks to be less vague about how we feel said execution fell short of what it should have been. As someone who is firmly disappointed by the handling of the Norn in IBS, I have to admit that I'm not sure I can offer specifics that will satisfy you. I will, however, provide a very specific example of something else I thought worked well in IBS, and that forms the basis of my ultimate position that the Norn stuff could have been done better.

 

I always mildly liked Almorra, but I couldn't possibly care less about the Charr and the Vigil. However, I thought the Almorra Visions of the Past instance was done very well from a narrative perspective. We find out that Bangar sired Ajax, who we met during the vigil branch of the personal story and discovered was Almorra's son. I didn't care about the Vigil, the personal story, Bangar, Ajax, the Charr, of even all that much about Almorra - but the line "another son you've lost" really stood out to me as I played it, and it still sticks to me this day. I consider that sequence one of the highest points of writing in all of GW2.

 

The mystifying thing is that I couldn't even tell you exactly why that line/scene/instance was so compelling that it overcame my utter apathy for all the story elements it involved. However, what I'm certain of is that whoever put together that bit of story in that instance really, genuinely, authentically cared about doing that story justice. I say this because I do a lot of professional writing work IRL, and one thing I've learned from reading thousands of compositions of all kinds is that both authenticity and insincerity somehow seep out of the page when either are present, even if there is no specific "aha! gotcha!" thing you can point to that gives it away explicitly.

 

That incorporeal sense of care and craftsmanship that I detect behind that Almorra scene is just not present for any of the Norn-specific stuff in IBS. Yes, it was exciting to see the Spirits and hear them roast Braham, yes it was cool to see them following Braham into the literal maw of Primordus, yes it was cool to see Jhavi leading the charge to kill the monster that cast a shadow over her family and people, etc. But none of those things reveal the level of dedication driving the hands that made the Darkrime Delves instance. Again, I wish I could point to some specific thing that 'proves' my point, but I can't. All I can tell you is that I'm confident that the level of dedication just isn't the same. If anything, the feeling I get is that ANet has exactly the same attitude as you do, Saajuk, when it comes to the Norn elements of the Saga - just checking boxes off a list and being satisfied that they merely did it.

Edited May 20, 2021 by voltaicbore.8012

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

9 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

This is pretty much what you're missing - sure, all the elements of what you've listed throughout this thread are there, but they are executed in shoddy fashion. I'll even grant you that it was executed on the same level of care as the other dragon/race stories, which you seem quite hung up on reiterating - that still doesn't change that it was shoddily executed, just because it was just as poorly done as the rest of the game.

The problem is this argument is that you, like others, just keep throwing around terms like "its shoddy" without actually giving any examples or descriptions into why its supposedly shoddy.

 

Anyone can just sit around and claim everything is bad because... Hell, that's such a popular past time on the internet that most people ignore people making such claims because they are almost always made dishonestly, and to perpetuate memes. These forums alone are full of "X is THE worst hing ever" hyperbolic statements that are obviously gross over reactions to something that is otherwise mundane.

9 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

That incorporeal sense of care and craftsmanship that I detect behind that Almorra scene is just not present for any of the Norn-specific stuff in IBS. 

Ironic, because the Almorra scene was, by far, one of the worst parts of IBS for me.

 

What made Almorra's death good before the Vision of the Past came out was the implication that she just sort of got shanked in the middle of the frozen wastes. A high and mighty general, with tons of accomplishments on her belt, just gets noobed in the middle of nowhere. It set a tone for the Bjora releases that this wasn't the story where you go out the big kitten hero, this was the story where you bleed out alone in a horrible place like a chump. A refreshing change from the otherwise cliche storytelling methods of the game so far.

 

The Vision of the Past ruined all that by making her death the most boring, cliche, by the book, "kitten" death moment. Like something out of a Final Fantasy game. It was the definition of a "design by checkbox" story design.

 

By comparison, the things I like about Bjora, and most of IBS, was that they subverted most of the typical design by checkbox narrative beats that they could have done in this story.

• The Spirits of the Wild weren't some ancient, sagely, god entities, with all the answers. They are just magical creatures that exist in this word, and are just as flawed, and prone to falling, as everyone else.
• Asgier wasn't some big, manly, hero, who bested the Dragon in 1v1 combat. He was actually kind of weak, and let himself be taken in by Jormag's words.
• Ryland and Bangar had no redemption. They were both just horrible people, who were formed out of the utterly broken system that is Charr society.
• Smodur wasn't just some generic "good guy" Charr, making peace and helping people out of the kindness of his heart. If anything, he is living proof that you can do everything different, and still be the same sort of narcissistic sociopath that Bangar was.

 

Even when it comes to the DRMs, while the design/objectives could be improved, I was actually kind of glad they did them instead of what they normally do. GW2 has always had this problem where we are told the Dragons are invading everywhere, and are such a big issue, but the vast majority of their minions are out in the middle of nowhere, not really doing anything. Outside of the attack on Claw Island in core, and Scarlet's attack on LA in LWS1, its never really felt like the Dragons were a threat to anyone except the far boonies. IBS likely original plan of a map in the Centaur homelands, and then a dragon fight meta near Anvil Rock, would have only continued this issue. Since both areas are the literal middle of nowhere. The DRMs did more to actually make it feel like the dragons were invading the world the game has pretty much ever done. And certainly did more to drive in the feeling of there being a big invasion, then I was really expecting the story to do.

 

It was a story that didn't build things up, it was a story that broke everything down around it. Something fitting for a story that revolved around a psychological manipulator like Jormag.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Sinolai.3860]

My biggest issue is the rushed feeling in the Icebrood Saga story and the change in Rytlocks personality. The storywriting and voice acting in GW2 is the best I have seen in an MMO and it got me really hooked now. I have marathoned the story from Living world 2 to Icebrood saga within a month now and I am currently going on Icebrood sagas last part.

 

My character is an Ash Legion Charr and I was hoping I'd have somewhat different perspective on war than other commanders, yet it feels like the writers have preset your characters opinions and personality in this story: you can only be abhorred of Smodur executing the trators - no neutral or supporting view (I'd want to go for neutral). No chances of having neutral or supporting view when you kill the Steel Warband. You can only be abhorred again. There is no possibility of defending your Imperator when Rytlock calls her a traitor (as an Ash Legion, I should be able to tell him infiltration is part of spy's job)

Previously you could often voice your opinion and had different dialogues for different races/professions, even when it didn't really matter for the story.

 

Another thing is Rytlock. As a Charr you will spend lots of time with him. In the Icebrood Saga his personality becomes inconsistant... he turns into a pathological complainer, who is initially against everything and after being told to do something he acts as if it was his idea all along.

 

Last complaint about Jormag: Maybe I missed something, but only yesterday I realized that when Aurene and Commander talks about Jormag, they refer to Jormag as "them". So long I was confused of how the Ice Legion is related to the topic. Turns out it wasnt. Just Jormag being them. When did Jormag's gender identity become clear? Did Aurene and the commander just start casually talking about them with "they" pronoun? It really confused me there.

Furthermore, I don't think Charr High Legions have spent much time pondering gender identities. They are too busy building war machines, so I would have expected someone (Aurene perhaps?) to teach the Charr why Jormag should be referred as "they". Points for who ever created Bangar and calls Jormag "it" 😄 Atleast he is consistent old relic (as Ryland put it).

[voltaicbore.8012]

7 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The problem is this argument is that you, like others, just keep throwing around terms like "its shoddy" without actually giving any examples or descriptions into why its supposedly shoddy.

 

Anyone can just sit around and claim everything is bad because... Hell, that's such a popular past time on the internet that most people ignore people making such claims because they are almost always made dishonestly, and to perpetuate memes. These forums alone are full of "X is THE worst hing ever" hyperbolic statements that are obviously gross over reactions to something that is otherwise mundane.

 In my defense, I acknowledged that it was fair for you to demand specifics, and that no specifics were provided to you. I also immediately acknowledged that I had no specifics either. That's the whole premise of what I was saying - under certain circumstances it's difficult to nail down specifically what makes you feel something is inferior, especially in a narrative context. It's just that my experience suggests what worked well in IBS came from stronger craftsmanship, while some widely panned elements came from much less care.

 

While I believe the IBS was always doomed to fail and is one of the worst business ideas ANet ever greenlit, from a narrative standpoint I actually agree with you on a number of things IBS got right. In particular, I liked that Bangar and Ryland were not needlessly redeemed by some "I had a higher purpose for all this carnage, but it got twisted along the way" cliche. I also happen to think that Charr society is extremely dysfunctional in design, and that Bangar, Ryland, and Drizzlewood were logical outcomes of that horrible dysfunction. I also agree that upending the memory of Asgeir was well executed. They didn't turn him into a complete coward/traitor/villain, but they managed to destroy the cliched heroic aura surrounding his name and supposed achievement, while also revealing more about Jormag. Even more impressively, they didn't even need a story instance or cutscene to achieve this. It was all just a well-written piece of text in an interactable object. As for Smodur, I feel it was a bit compressed, but I do ultimately believe it was the right call to reveal that he's not just the pragmatic pro-treaty leader we meet in the story. It was nice to see, for once, that the Power of Friendship approach of holding hands with everyone wasn't going to magically smooth things out, and that the treaty and Smodur's pragmatism were insufficient tools to paper over Charr civilization's deeper problems.

 

It's these very things that I like, as you do, that stand in contrast to what I call "shoddy" when it comes to something like the Spirits. I read (but didn't comment on) an excellent thread you started late last year. As you point out, there were a number of promising setups. Raven + the trials led us into the Fraenir fight and gives a lot of context to the Bjora meta, and meeting Wolf leads to Braham becoming the Wolf. I still think the meeting with Wolf was extremely thin and purely for ego-stroking the PC, but it's better than what followed. As you further predict and explain in your OP there, it would have been nice to see Bear and Snow Leopard make appearances that specifically.... do something narratively relevant to both the Spirits themselves and our larger anti-Jormag mission. Bear teaching us to persist, and Snow Leopard teaching us the value of cunning and tactical approaches (so as to avoid repeating Asgeir's failed head-on attempt) - these are excellent ideas that do not require ANet to fall back on making the Spirits the "ancient, sagely, god entities, with all the answers". Instead it would allow the individual Spirits to have just a few things of value to impart to us, while perhaps leaving room for them to admit (or us to find out) just how flawed and fallible they are. It could have added flavor to what we've already been told about the Spirits, without resorting to making them impotent pretenders.

 

Contrast this with how the Spirit narrative unraveled. Owl gets victimized again for no particular purpose, other then giving Ryland another chance to be a jerk - as if there weren't enough of those. The other main spirits join us in one Visions instance where their only role is to help Braham survive a few drops down to the bottom, then do a spiritual Voltron to give Braham some mental plot armor against Primordus' influence. Braham actually losing himself in pursuit of a different way to confront Jormag would have been more meaningful than robbing his character of any meaningful sacrifice for that choice. They could have replaced the Spirits with any other generic deus ex machina entity and it wouldn't have been any more or less meaningful.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

14 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Contrast this with how the Spirit narrative unraveled. Owl gets victimized again for no particular purpose, other then giving Ryland another chance to be a jerk - as if there weren't enough of those. The other main spirits join us in one Visions instance where their only role is to help Braham survive a few drops down to the bottom, then do a spiritual Voltron to give Braham some mental plot armor against Primordus' influence. Braham actually losing himself in pursuit of a different way to confront Jormag would have been more meaningful than robbing his character of any meaningful sacrifice for that choice. They could have replaced the Spirits with any other generic deus ex machina entity and it wouldn't have been any more or less meaningful.

I would disagree  this.

 

Owl dies to stop Jormag from corrupting it further, and to prevent Jormag from getting another huge boost of magical power. It was established back in Bjora that the Spirits are nearly unlimited batteries of magical energy, and Jormag tried to corrupt the major Spirits in Drizzlewood to get more power. The fact that Owl was willing to cut itself off from everything else for over a hundred years, and was then willing to die to prevent Jormag from corrupting it more, and getting more power, shows the sheer dedication they have to fighting back against the dragons.

 

Likewise, the Spirits helped Braham survive a literal volcano, and the mind of an Elder Dragon, an entity so powerful even the human gods just NOPED out of Tyira instead of face. Braham getting magical spirit protection, and doing this, makes more sense then Snaff mind bulleting Kralkatorrik to the ground back in EoD. There is nothing impotent about them, and we already saw back in Bjora that the Spirits are powerful enough to retain some semblance of individual thought, even while corrupted. So this wasn't a dues ex machina, it was an established plot point that no one, except maybe the human gods, could have fulfilled.

 

And having Braham lose himself in the quest to beat Jormag would have been the worst story turn they could have done. We've already had a major friend(Eir), the hero(the player), and the savior(Aurene), die in the quest to defeat the dragons/gods. Having Braham die, or otherwise lose himself in the process of fighting Jormag, would have done nothing but been cheap shock value story telling, and reducing him to nothing but Eir 2.0, when he should be better.

[voltaicbore.8012]

6 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Owl dies to stop Jormag from corrupting it further, and to prevent Jormag from getting another huge boost of magical power. It was established back in Bjora that the Spirits are nearly unlimited batteries of magical energy, and Jormag tried to corrupt the major Spirits in Drizzlewood to get more power. The fact that Owl was willing to cut itself off from everything else for over a hundred years, and was then willing to die to prevent Jormag from corrupting it more, and getting more power, shows the sheer dedication they have to fighting back against the dragons.

 

Eh. Partial disagreement. Owl had no agency here, in the starkest contrast possible to what we found out earlier about her self-imposed isolation. Owl was clearly dedicated to opposing Jormag, but this instance was a weak demonstration of it precisely because she had no agency in the outcome. I'd compare this to the Luke Skywalker/Vader scene in Cloud City at the end of Episode V. Sure, it's not like Luke had much control over how that fight turned out, he was clearly outclassed and had no hope of winning. But the writing there allowed Luke total agency in one, significant choice: would he choose certain death, or would he take Vader's offer and live? It isn't much of a choice, but it's still within his power to choose, and he chooses death over corruption. Owl is not even given that shred of agency, and is reduced to screeching at others fighting over what happens to her.

 

My disagreement is only partial because agency or not, Owl at least demonstrates acceptance of her death as preferable to empowering Jormag, and that imbues a scrap of meaningful sacrifice to an event where she was otherwise a powerless passenger.

 

I'll just agree to disagree on the spirits helping Braham survive the volcano and Jormag's corruption. This is another instance where the mere fact that something happens impresses you so deeply, and you offer no discussion of  he actual execution.

 

17 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

And having Braham lose himself in the quest to beat Jormag would have been the worst story turn they could have done. We've already had a major friend(Eir), the hero(the player), and the savior(Aurene), die in the quest to defeat the dragons/gods. Having Braham die, or otherwise lose himself in the process of fighting Jormag, would have done nothing but been cheap shock value story telling, and reducing him to nothing but Eir 2.0, when he should be better.

 

LOL hard disagree here.

 

You'll likely resort to semantics here, but to say that the player and Aurene "die in the quest to defeat the dragons/gods" is utterly laughable. The permanence of death is what makes is physically and narratively compelling, and it's also what imbues a characters' choice to knowingly accept death (as Owl did) with any impressive sacrificial value. The player and Aurene basically took painful naps, as far as narrative is concerned.

 

Eir's death of course is permanent (though somewhat cheapened by her appearance from the Mists), and is perhaps the worst fate a Norn can imagine. She dies unarmed, betrayed, scared, and running away as prey. Braham dying in the process of defeating Jormag

1. as the Norn of prophecy
2. pursuing a risky path he explicity informs us was his conscious choice
3. has the gods of his people at his back
4. going hard into the face of the enemy that, as you say, even the human gods backed away from

could not possibly be more different than Eir's un-heroic passing. But again, true to form, you simply see "Eir death... Braham death... death = death! All same!"

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

27 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Owl had no agency here,

She did though. She is the one who made the choice to have Braham kill her. Owl could have easily told Braham "na I'm good with Ryland corrupting me for X, Y, Z reasons, let it happen" and it would have. Braham was merely a tool for enacting her will, not the one deciding her will for her.

27 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

This is another instance where the mere fact that something happens impresses you so deeply, and you offer no discussion of  he actual execution.

You really should stop trying to straw man people like this. It just makes you look bad. I never said, or implied, I was "deeply" impressed by it

27 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

You'll likely resort to semantics here,

Nope, I just wont try to side step the actual argument by straw manning people

 

The afterlife is a thing in Guild Wars. Back in Guild Wars 1 we were regularly crossing over to the Underworld to talk to the dead, and meeting with the ghosts of the long dead. This continued even into Guild Wars 2.

 

There is no "permanence" in death in Guild Wars, never has been, since we know you get to "live" on in the Mists, the Underworld, any of the other god realms if they decide to take you.. Even with the gods themselves gone we see in PoF the systems they set up are still in place, and their followers can still make it to their realms to serve them post leaving. Not to mention Glint organizing, and leading, a large army of the dead in the Mists

 

We have interactions with the ghosts of ancient Orrian and Elonian Kings and Queen, Gwen, Snaff and Eir, Glint, any many other beings. Braham dying wouldn't have removed him from the narrative, there would never be any permanence there, because they could just have him show up as a ghost any time they wanted, since thats already an established plot point since GW1.

 

"Hey Commander, I get to hang out with my mom and smash things in the Mists! But if you ever want to talk, or want me to help smash things on Tyra, just have an necromancer or whoever open a Mist portal and give me a ring-a-ding, and I'll be right there to help you out since this is a thing we've been able to do since.. forever!"

 

What a truly epic and meaningful sacrifice on Braham's part. /sarcasm.

27 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

could not possibly be more different than Eir's un-heroic passing. But again, true to form, you simply see "Eir death... Braham death... death = death! All same!"

Here is that straw man again. This was never the argument made.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Ashantara.8731]

"Is it me or did this feel like a distraction? Like, not the main event." - Kasmeer Meade

[DaniTheHero.6318]

On 5/20/2021 at 11:44 AM, Sinolai.3860 said:

My biggest issue is the rushed feeling in the Icebrood Saga story and the change in Rytlocks personality. The storywriting and voice acting in GW2 is the best I have seen in an MMO and it got me really hooked now. I have marathoned the story from Living world 2 to Icebrood saga within a month now and I am currently going on Icebrood sagas last part.

 

My character is an Ash Legion Charr and I was hoping I'd have somewhat different perspective on war than other commanders, yet it feels like the writers have preset your characters opinions and personality in this story: you can only be abhorred of Smodur executing the trators - no neutral or supporting view (I'd want to go for neutral). No chances of having neutral or supporting view when you kill the Steel Warband. You can only be abhorred again. There is no possibility of defending your Imperator when Rytlock calls her a traitor (as an Ash Legion, I should be able to tell him infiltration is part of spy's job)

Previously you could often voice your opinion and had different dialogues for different races/professions, even when it didn't really matter for the story.

 

Another thing is Rytlock. As a Charr you will spend lots of time with him. In the Icebrood Saga his personality becomes inconsistant... he turns into a pathological complainer, who is initially against everything and after being told to do something he acts as if it was his idea all along.

 

Last complaint about Jormag: Maybe I missed something, but only yesterday I realized that when Aurene and Commander talks about Jormag, they refer to Jormag as "them". So long I was confused of how the Ice Legion is related to the topic. Turns out it wasnt. Just Jormag being them. When did Jormag's gender identity become clear? Did Aurene and the commander just start casually talking about them with "they" pronoun? It really confused me there.

Furthermore, I don't think Charr High Legions have spent much time pondering gender identities. They are too busy building war machines, so I would have expected someone (Aurene perhaps?) to teach the Charr why Jormag should be referred as "they". Points for who ever created Bangar and calls Jormag "it" 😄 Atleast he is consistent old relic (as Ryland put it).

Jormags pronoun was clearly just another ANET political pandering/grandstanding.

 

The dragons are “It” and if we humanize them like Aurene, then Jormag is clearly a She.

for heavens sake Primodous is Its BROTHER.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by DaniTheHero.6318

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

22 minutes ago, DaniTheHero.6318 said:

Jormags pronoun was clearly just another ANET political pandering/grandstanding.

yeah jormag being "them" sounds like exact same case of virtue signaling as Kas and marjory big kis cutscene back in LWS1

[Faridah.8431]

1 hour ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

yeah jormag being "them" sounds like exact same case of virtue signaling as Kas and marjory big kis cutscene back in LWS1

It's especially funny when you consider how Jormag basically went from a male sounding voice in the original launch trailer for IBS to clearly female by the end of IBS. I think ANET just wanted to do some political pandering as well, but didn't know exactly how to execute. The "them" thing seems odd. I don't recall Jormag telling me that was her preferred pronoun and as the commander who has thus far killed elder dragons, not sure why my character would care. 😂

[DaniTheHero.6318]

1 hour ago, Faridah.8431 said:

It's especially funny when you consider how Jormag basically went from a male sounding voice in the original launch trailer for IBS to clearly female by the end of IBS. I think ANET just wanted to do some political pandering as well, but didn't know exactly how to execute. The "them" thing seems odd. I don't recall Jormag telling me that was her preferred pronoun and as the commander who has thus far killed elder dragons, not sure why my character would care. 😂

The commander and the gang are so compassionate and woke, they respect the pronouns of a monstrous dragon bent in world domination/destruction.

😂

[Imba.9451]

I generall consider the usage of "they/them" in fantasy settings odd. Heck, I even consider it odd in real life.

 

 

On 8/5/2021 at 3:50 PM, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

yeah jormag being "them" sounds like exact same case of virtue signaling as Kas and marjory big kis cutscene back in LWS1

 

Why? I really do not see any problem here. Two lovers kissing isn't really a big deal to me.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

People really have that much of a gripe over some fictional, non-existent dragon's gender... wow...

 

Meanwhile, I'm just here thinking they did Primordus wrong after all that build up from GW1, it just ends up as a fuse in a fireworks display. 

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

3 hours ago, Imba.9451 said:

Why? I really do not see any problem here. Two lovers kissing isn't really a big deal to me.

 

On it's own it isn't. But it sort of becomes one, when you get whole cutscene that serves only a purpose of doing a big zooooooooooom on that kiss of two NPCs making sure nobody is able to miss the fact that "oh gosh two girls kissed, we so progressive, look!"

 

Bonus points for that cutscene happening right in the middle of assailing the big drill that is drilling into the middle of LA for nobody knows why. So most likely emotion you are going to get from anyone paying attention to the story should be "ain't nobody got time for this"

[Imba.9451]

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

On it's own it isn't. But it sort of becomes one, when you get whole cutscene that serves only a purpose of doing a big zooooooooooom on that kiss of two NPCs making sure nobody is able to miss the fact that "oh gosh two girls kissed, we so progressive, look!"

 

Bonus points for that cutscene happening right in the middle of assailing the big drill that is drilling into the middle of LA for nobody knows why. So most likely emotion you are going to get from anyone paying attention to the story should be "ain't nobody got time for this"

True, but literally every action movies does this. Hero kisses girl right before doing kitten stuff.

Not saying your complaint isn't absolutely legit, but it's also nothing out of the norm. And thats coming from someone who is really against virtue signaling.

I guess I simply have seen worse.

[LucianDK.8615]

Dont speak for everyone, in general I like IBS, and used sooo much time in Drizzlewood coast.  But the content quality took a nosedive with the introduction of DRMs.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

On 8/6/2021 at 11:15 PM, Imba.9451 said:

True, but literally every action movies does this. Hero kisses girl right before doing kitten stuff.

Not saying your complaint isn't absolutely legit, but it's also nothing out of the norm. And thats coming from someone who is really against virtue signaling.

I guess I simply have seen worse.

 

Except pretty much everytime they do it with side characters (Kas and Marjory are essentially support characters for the story) every self-respecting critic poitns out virtue signaling.

 

Also small disclaimer - I am not making a complaint now about that time they went out of their way to show everyone "we have lesbian couple, we nice!" I was just saying that I take Jormag being refered by "they" as exact same virtue signaling move. I have made my peace with AN doing those awkward virtue signals once in a while 😉

[ugrakarma.9416]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:26 PM, LucianDK.8615 said:

Dont speak for everyone, in general I like IBS, and used sooo much time in Drizzlewood coast.  But the content quality took a nosedive with the introduction of DRMs.

Same, i like IBS except champions, 

 

First im some kinda of "geography" nerd, i like exploration, tundra like envirment is a relief of GW2 obscession with deserts. Drizzlewood coast reminds me of Dwarwen Valley of NeverWinter.

 

The Steelwarband instance is amazing and creative, is just too short.

 

The real is problem of IBS is some aspects seems a cutted version of a normal LS season.

 

 

[Faridah.8431]

On 8/8/2021 at 10:01 AM, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

Except pretty much everytime they do it with side characters (Kas and Marjory are essentially support characters for the story) every self-respecting critic poitns out virtue signaling.

 

Also small disclaimer - I am not making a complaint now about that time they went out of their way to show everyone "we have lesbian couple, we nice!" I was just saying that I take Jormag being refered by "they" as exact same virtue signaling move. I have made my peace with AN doing those awkward virtue signals once in a while 😉

Ultimately not a big deal and nothing I am gong to dwell on, but just an observation with Jormag. Clearly had a male voice in the launch trailer, then clearly female voice in Dragonstorm. So I don't know, maybe Jormag transitioned during IBS, or is fluid, or something. Which is fine, just seems weird that my player character would be cognizant of that within the story and not sure why my character would even care about referring to Jormag as "they". So far my character kills dragons.

 

So last post I'll make on that matter. I agree that it just played out like a very odd virtue signal. If they wanted to play that out as a social commentary, they should have used a side character we care about whether someone from Dragon's Watch or otherwise.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Faridah.8431

[Follyfoot.2803]

If the story in GW2 was a a quarter that of FF14 the game would up it's game considerably.  For me the story in GW2 is the worst aspect of the game and it shouldn't be.  If your going to introduce a story then at least make it interesting and meaningful.   Not some half baked hogwash that doesn't relate to anything but dribble.

The FF14 story has you feel the hero, you are a hero, and I never get fed-up with people telling me I'm the best thing since sliced bread.

GW2 I feel anything but a hero.  I'm a woke plonker with ideals coming out off my kitten but zero substance.  In GW2 your character is a unfunny joke.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Follyfoot.2803

[Ultramex.1506]

Everyone here have expressed my problems better than  i could so i'm just gonna say this

Straight from GW2 twitter page:"Guild Wars 2 is an online RPG with fast-paced combat" IBS is the complete opposite of this , I don't care how long you want the event to be, if it's boring and a slog to get through, I just don't care. But i am still optimistic when Anet said they will make EoD has same replayability like HoT, I hope so.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Ultramex.1506

[Solstace.2514]

I really liked grothmar and Bjora maps.  Those were fun to play and the story seemed well done during those events.  I like the concept of the “no quarter” map.  It’s fun to fight in this war scenario but I feel like the story is a little spotty there.  We get introduced to steel legion but then it just seems to fizzle out and I have trouble piecing together what happene

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

3 hours ago, Solstace.2514 said:

it just seems to fizzle out and I have trouble piecing together what happened

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my personal take on IBS. Especially with how they treated my boi Primordus.