Please disband Dragon's Watch

[Ashantara.8731]

It's not like that "guild" truly exists in the first place (a band of adventurers usually travels together).

 

When we first met Destiny's Edge, they were bickering like school children - what a disgrace for a band of heroes. Still, they were having more depth of character and impact on the story than our current so-called guild. Most of them have little to no impact on the story and are mere props. But the worst thing about Dragon's Watch is how the writers have made them so two-dimensional that those characters actually take away from the quality of any dramatic, compelling story-telling rather than adding to it, which makes them feel out of place most of the time.

 

How so?

• Braham's tongue-in-cheek comments (in a "modern American kid" language), which are supposed to add humor but usually fail at that and end up annoying people; I've never felt touched by any of his "heroic deeds"
• Taimi's always hyperactive babbling (also performed in a "modern American kid" style), with her high-pitched voice that is guaranteed to ruin the dramatic element of the moment 99% of the time
• Marjory and Kasmeer, who only seem to get any storyline when they show up together, and in most of those occasions it's relationship-related or dealing with personal issues, which also takes away from the actual story in which our character is participating (as a mere by-stander, it seems at times)
• Logan, my favorite companion (even though not a member of DW), whose story impact seems to have ended after he came to terms with the fact that Jennah doesn't love him back
• Rytlock, whose sole purpose seems to be to throw in grumpy comments or complaints (I did like the final cutscene with Ryland, but it was too little too late, plus Ryland was an even bigger annoyance than his sire)
• Canach, who has been reduced to an eloquent narcissist, also not contributing to the actual plot but just being there and throwing in smart-mouth comments

 

So can we please travel to Cantha by ourselves? I really don't wish to take any of those Stooges with me. I want to be able to enjoy the plot, to actually be the one having an impact on it instead of watching others do all the work, and to be able to see new characters we encounter (who fit into the new story) getting the space they need to evolve within the story and make the whole thing a unique, exciting and touching experience.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Ashantara.8731
Minor corrections.

[Fenella.2634]

If this was a real ingame guild, I'd have kicked most of them long ago for inactivity 😅

From a story point of view it's honestly embarrassing how our very own guild manages to be even more dysfunctional than DE. 

 

I do like the characters individually, though. They just don't work as a guild. 

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Fenella.2634 said:

I do like the characters individually, though. They just don't work as a guild. 

 

Not only do they not work as a guild, they don't work as characters for new stories, either, for the reasons mentioned earlier. If you can't implement a character from old stories properly into a new one, it is better to not have them in it at all.

 

As you stated correctly, they are very different from one another - so different that they barely work well as part of the same plot, leave alone work well with any plot for which they were not specifically written.

 

P.S. (Edit): I just noticed that this thread was moved from Discussions to the Lore section. 🙊🙉🙈 This was supposed to be a suggestion directed at the devs and has nothing to do with GW2 lore.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Teratus.2859]

I don't really see your complaint.

Not all guilds work together all the time, people do different things and have different life obligations.
I think Anet hasn't done a bad job mimicing that with Dragon's Watch by having our members and allies going off on their own things occasionally.

Has there even been a time where the entire guild is present for the same event? I can't actually recall if that's happened yet.
But it should be a thing for Elder Dragon battles.
Kinda stupid when our Guild goes to kill an Elder Dragon and some members are like "nah I need a personal day" 

[ugrakarma.9416]

i agree completely.

 

the idea of "team against dragons", is one last remnant of LS1 legacy,, just a mimic childs animes stuff, i find more serious stuff watching avatar. i thanks gods im not paying attention to LS1 stuff, i was busy making world completion at time.

 

bury the entire thing, the trio canach-rylock-kasmeer worked very well in POF, and no ones is missing taimi in IBS.

 

kasmeer is present in IBS metas, and just to her traditional role of our "personal teleporter".

 

leave the "team" to map metas.

 

a "side story" where we help logan marry jennah will be very fun.

 

another problem with briging them all togheter is that team is crazily OP, at point in Mordy final battle we had to find a excuse to half them. commander itself aside, we have big brawlers (Rytlock, Braham, Logan), magicians(Jory, Kasmeer), high tech ammo(Taimi), a saboteur with high explosives(Canach).

Edited May 9, 2021 by ugrakarma.9416

[Cyninja.2954]

What is it with this constant cancel culture everywhere?

 

So you do not like some of the characters, it happens. Let's do a small recap shall we? People were up and arms about:

- Trahearne while he was a central figure in the vanilla story

- Caithe while she was a central focal point during Season 2

- Taimi while she was a central figure in Season 2 and 3

- Braham during Season 3 and now, while he was a focal point

- (I could go on, this behavior on the forums is mirrored for nearly every character, and those where it is not mirrored have not have their time in the spotlight)

 

How often was the loss of a character actually of a positive impact to the game? Hands up be honest and think on this for a second.

 

It's almost as though someone is always annoyed here. So you do not enjoy the current characters, what about players who do? What gives you the right to ask for something which might negatively impact others? Besides the fact that "going solo to Cantha" would be a terrible boring premise since everything and all interactions would be very one-sided as our main character would be the only one experiencing them giving the writers nearly no possibility to delve deeper.

 

Example: we know Cantha is a very isolationist human society which has expelled all non-humans in the past. I'd say some of the MOST interesting interactions would be to see how a mix of races would fare when entering the country (the only question being IF the writers at Arenanet are actually able to depict this).

 

Finally, of what goal is this post? The narrative focus, the story, the entire premise and everything which is planned for EoD has been completed months ago. The chance of this in any way sway the narrative teams decisions is 0. You are literally asking for a building to be removed which was constructed 1 year ago. Good luck with that approach (instead the alternative say opening a discussion about how things could be improved or what was done well and should be expanded upon, but no, the first place to go to is today always PLEASE REMOVE BECAUSE I WANT).

Edited May 9, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Teratus.2859]

1 hour ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

another problem with briging them all togheter is that team is crazily OP, at point in Mordy final battle we had to find a excuse to half them. commander itself aside, we have big brawlers (Rytlock, Braham, Logan), magicians(Jory, Kasmeer), high tech ammo(Taimi), a saboteur with high explosives(Canach).

That was a good way of doing it though, they were mostly all there but had different roles in the fight.
I'd like to see this more rather than certain allies just taking a vacation when there is literally a world ending dragon event going lol

Just knowing they are offscreen and fighting another battle which is relevant to what we are doing is enough.
Like some allies supporting a backup force which has cut off an enemy's reinforcement lines to weaken their military strength.
We had this with Kralkatorrik at Thunderhead, tons of allies involved in that fight all fighting in different areas commanding forces etc, that was brilliantly done and I want to see more of that.

[Zok.4956]

34 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

How often was the loss of a character actually of a positive impact to the game? Hands up be honest and think on this for a second.

 

I think with Trahearne Anet found a good solution for Trahearne and for the game.

 

[Zok.4956]

39 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

So you do not enjoy the current characters, what about players who do? What gives you the right to ask for something which might negatively impact others?

 

Whats wrong with having and expressing different opinions about characters in a video game?

 

[Cyninja.2954]

6 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

 

Whats wrong with having and expressing different opinions about characters in a video game?

 

Nothing, does this exchange always have to begin and end with "I dislike something thus I want it removed"? Seems like a very narrow, one sided and finite exchange does it not?

Edited May 9, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Zok.4956]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Nothing, does this exchange always have to begin and end with "I dislike something thus I want it removed"?

No, it does not. And it hasn't always done that.

[Cyninja.2954]

6 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

No, it does not. And it hasn't always done that.

It did for all those characters I listed, that said, did you see me complain in any of the other lore topics which were actual discussions?

 

Besides once again the futility of this request to begin with. If this was meant a a serious discussion, at least some meaning to development schedules would have been given, or angles for others to discuss.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

What is it with this constant cancel culture everywhere?

 

So you do not like some of the characters, it happens.

 

I think you did not really understand the actual point of my post: the characters don't fit into most of the stories, they are two-dimensional plot devices and sometimes even hamper proper story-telling (and also make our own role often insignificant and plain boring).

 

Furthermore, they don't leave any of the new, interesting characters that are introduced with a new story (and fit into it as they belong in it) enough space for development and screen time; see the Jhavi fiasco, for instance.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Cyninja.2954]

13 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

I think you did not really understand the actual point of my post: the characters don't fit into most of the stories, they are two-dimensional plot devices and sometimes even hamper proper story-telling (and also make our own role often insignificant and plain boring).

 

Furthermore, they don't leave any of the new, interesting characters that are introduced with a new story (and fit into it as they belong in it) enough space for development and screen time; see the Jhavi fiasco, for instance.

 

So your solution is to just ask for their removal, I guess believing that magically new characters will be more fleshed out from the get go?

 

Not accounting for:

- voice actors and their contracts

- the actual time to implement such a change

- you never mentioned new or interesting characters, you literally wanted us to go solo to Cantha (seems like a last minute argument, would have been nice as point to actually discuss no?)

 

I stand by what I said: this could have been a worthwhile discussion if it wasn't stifled from the get go.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

So your solution is to just ask for their removal, I guess believing that magically new characters will be more fleshed out from the get go?

 

No. My solution would be to hire writers who can handle those characters, but apparently that hope has been crushed dozens of times already in the past - so my suggestion is to write characters that fit into the scenario instead of butchering old ones and ruining the experience.

 

By the way, you really should stop putting words into people's mouths and stop a second to overthink what they're actually saying. As I mentioned in my previous response, even new characters who fit into the current setting don't work (re: Jhavi) when they are not given the attention and love for detail that they require (and deserve).

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

No, you will not abandon your band of progressive cross-species liberals.

[Cyninja.2954]

7 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

No. My solution would be to hire writers who can handle those characters, but apparently that hope has been crushed dozens of times already in the past - so my suggestion is to write characters that fit into the scenario instead of butchering old ones and ruining the experience.

Where was this idea in your disband monologue?

 

7 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

By the way, you really should stop putting words into people's mouths and stop a second to overthink what they're actually saying. As I mentioned in my previous response, even new characters who fit into the current setting don't work (re: Jhavi) when they are not given the attention and love for detail that they require (and deserve).

Yes, unfortunately I am not a mind reader.

 

Just look at your approach to this subject and your own responses, you went from:

- I want Dragon Watch disbanded and all the side characters removed

over

- I think the current side characters are not fitting to the stories and stifling other character development 

to

- I would want an improvement in writing of the characters, maybe with hiring new staff to improve writing

 

None of which was in your initial demand. Seems to me like those points can actually be discussed and worked with, if ones initial premise is not immediately to demand removal. That's what I am getting at, your entire point, or rather the point you might have wanted to make, would have benefited from an open discussion instead of locking it down with your removal demand from the get go.

 

That has nothing to do with my reading comprehension, half of your ideas came up after this topic was challenged.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[The Greyhawk.9107]

I still like some of "Dragons Watch".  Hard Pass on this. 

[Zola.6197]

It’s funny to me that you bring up bickering/clash of personalities as an issue. Intra-party conflict is pretty regularly apart of any band of adventurers across many genres. Honestly the thought of a party that gets along and always agrees with one another sounds pretty boring to me.

 

edit: I think the real issue is we don’t see any satisfactory development beyond this stage. Yes, DE does resolve their issues, but it happens pretty quickly toward the end of the PS and afterward we never really get to see them again as a full group. We don’t get to see the “fruits” of our labor. It would’ve been nice to see them functioning again as friends and companions, but they weren’t part of season 1 iirc and quickly separated/killed off in HoTs. Personally I enjoy the found family trope to develop overtime between disparate adventurers, which is something I feel DE and DW both are completely devoid of. We don’t get much time to dig into their group/interpersonal dynamics often.

 

On 5/9/2021 at 3:10 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Marjory and Kasmeer, who only seem to get any storyline when they show up together, and in most of those occasions it's relationship-related or dealing with personal issues, which also takes away from the actual story in which our character is participating (as a mere by-stander, it seems at times)

They haven’t had a real scene together in years. There’s been barely any content for either of them the last few years, let alone *any* screen time for them as a couple. Marjory has been a footnote since season 3. The only recent reference we’ve had to them as a couple was a vaguely cryptic line after the Gendarren Fields DRM. It just sounds like you are trying to overblow the focus they get as a couple, which is none.
 

Overall, I do agree they’re underwritten as individual characters, but also a couple. I honestly feel like there’s been some behind the scenes mandate they can’t write them as a couple anymore. /conspiracy theory 

 

Guess we’ll see if they can use them effectively in EoDs. If they can’t make room for at least Marjory, they’re never going to do it.

 

But this generally goes for all the characters in many regards. Their development as characters is often rushed past or glossed over, or their arcs take the entire focus (Braham mostly) to the point no one else can get spotlight. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Zola.6197

[Ashantara.8731]

40 minutes ago, Zola.6197 said:

It’s funny to me that you bring up bickering/clash of personalities as an issue. Intra-party conflict is pretty regularly apart of any band of adventurers across many genres.

 

But not in a (pre-)school child manner: "She stole my toy!" - "He stole mine first!" *whine, whine*

 

40 minutes ago, Zola.6197 said:

They haven’t had a real scene together in years. [...]

 

Yep. I liked the Belinda storyline a lot. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed their presence (together or separately), like with most of the other now insignificant plot devices a.k.a. our guild mates. The new characters, as mentioned earlier, unfortunately are being wasted as well these days.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[EdwinLi.1284]

People still consider Dragon's Watch a thing? They basically disbanded at this point.

Rox has officially retired to be a member of the Olmakham and now acts as their political representitive for Public Relationship in foreign affairs now.

Kasmeer has retired as well to become Kryta's political representitive in PR for foreign affairs as well thus she now mostly only show up for political matters involving Kryta now. 

 

Marjory has gone off to do her own thing now.

 

Taimi confirmed her condition has become serious state now and may have to retire soon due to reaching such critical conditions.

 

The only people left are the Commander, Rytlock, Gorrik, and Braham at this point but since we don't know what long term effects that Primordus corruption may have on Braham, he maybe forced to retire later due to possible effects on his body.

Edited May 10, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Zola.6197]

@EdwinLi.1284 Just because they have other things going on in their lives doesn’t mean they’ve disbanded as a guild in any official capacity. At the very least they still show up to help the commander regularly toward the goal of combating the dragons. The only reason they aren’t together all the time is because the writers can only budget in so many characters, VAs, and lines of dialogue, so they need to provide reasons in universe why they’re sometimes beholden to other commitments/life developments.

[mindcircus.1506]

17 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

People still consdier Dragon's Watch a thing? They basically disbanded at this point.

Rox has officially retired to be a member of the Olmakham and now acts their political representitive for Public Relationship in foreign affairs now.

Kasmeer has retired as well to become Kryta's political representitive in PR for foreign affairs as well thus she now mostly only show up for political matters involving Kryta now. 

 

Marjory has gone off to do her own thing now.

 

Taimi confirmed her condition has become serious state now and may have to retire soon due to reaching such critical conditions.

 

All these characters had roles in the new DRMs.

Edited May 10, 2021 by mindcircus.1506

[ugrakarma.9416]

On 5/10/2021 at 2:03 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

The only people left are the Commander, Rytlock, Gorrik, and Braham at this point but since we don't know what long term effects that Primordus corruption may have on Braham, he maybe forced to retire later due to possible effects on his body.

the end dialogue with braham suggest he will into a "long recover";.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 5/10/2021 at 1:03 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

People still consider Dragon's Watch a thing? They basically disbanded at this point.

Rox has officially retired to be a member of the Olmakham and now acts as their political representitive for Public Relationship in foreign affairs now.

Kasmeer has retired as well to become Kryta's political representitive in PR for foreign affairs as well thus she now mostly only show up for political matters involving Kryta now. 

 

Marjory has gone off to do her own thing now.

I think Marjory is getting more connected with the Vigil though at this point.

On 5/10/2021 at 1:03 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Taimi confirmed her condition has become serious state now and may have to retire soon due to reaching such critical conditions.

I think the 'Lab Time' she and Gorrik are spending do 'Lab Things' involves merging her consciousness into Scruffy, so I don't think she'll be gone any time soon. 

On 5/10/2021 at 1:03 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

The only people left are the Commander, Rytlock, Gorrik, and Braham at this point but since we don't know what long term effects that Primordus corruption may have on Braham, he maybe forced to retire later due to possible effects on his body.

That may be in Braham' case... Although I hope to takes a more comedic back seat in EoD.

 

I expect we'll see Marjory and Rytlock at least go to Cantha with us, though Rytlock has an 'out' now to take a background role in the story.

 

But because of the Xenophobia of Cantha I think the best cast to send would have to have at least 2 or 3 non humans in it, not including the Commander of obvious reasons.

 

So for me Marjory, Canach, Rytlock, Braham and maybe Taimi or Kasmeer are the ones I'd expect to see go to Cantha with us.