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10 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

honestly i have never seen so many leechers as during dragon storm, and this since day one.

 

 

Well, than better check more properly.
Tarir for example has tons of leechers doing nothing, pressing 1 in dmg phase and grab chests after the event ist done.

 

10 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

The question is what game do we want to see

 

Ehm... you may want to check the title and initial post again...

This thread is not about design choices and difficult events/bosses.
This thread is about leechers in world event,
and like I said -> no innovative or interesting mechanic, no coordination and no level of difficulty can keep away leechers.

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While I dislike leechers/AFK'ers too, I'm thinking it's easier to just do the event and get your rewards and be happy with that. Don't bother with these few players; all metas have players who probabl

I don't do it out of respect but honestly I understand them. This is the only way to get the 2nd infusion and this mission is a torture  Having to kill the same sponges 3 times ...Level 0 in term

No. The game should push players towards having fun. If you have fun with challenging content, play fractals or raids, that where they are for. Worldbosses and open world metas are not there

Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Karaha.3290 said:

 

Well, than better check more properly.
Tarir for example has tons of leechers doing nothing, pressing 1 in dmg phase and grab chests after the event ist done.

 

 

Ehm... you may want to check the title and initial post again...

This thread is not about design choices and difficult events/bosses.
This thread is about leechers in world event,
and like I said -> no innovative or interesting mechanic, no coordination and no level of difficulty can keep away leechers.

 

Hmm no that's totally wrong. For example, the twisted marionette , all the servers full of leechers were doomed to fail.

Same for tequalt in his first months after his update/improvement.

 

players had to be genuinely involved in order to be successful. I saw very few leechers and even almost none.

 

Of course, the difficulty has an impact on this parameter. If the fight is easy and almost impossible to fail, people do not really get involved and participate very little or not at all.

 

If the boss is complicated with very little hope for success, it will be a race for everyone to be efficient and hope to succeed

Obviously that does not prevent having a few leechers, but it will drastically reduce them.

 

And there would even be methods to get rid of them permanently especially in private instances like dragon storm:  0 tp, aoe and mobs that attack stationary players around the area, one death= no reward  ... But obviously with the gw2 community, we can forget it🤣

Edited by radda.8920
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1 hour ago, radda.8920 said:

 

Hmm no that's totally wrong. For example, the twisted marionette , all the servers full of leechers were doomed to fail.

Same for tequalt in his first months after his update/improvement.

We already got that marionette example, scroll up -> people needed to actively jump to their maps,
that's why afk people rarely were on organized maps (they mostly were full again right after the event was done).
And unorganized maps were doomed to fail anyway, no matter how many leechers were there.

And Tequatls... yeah on the one hand it was the same -> less afk players on organized maps, because it needed to be active (well, active clicking).
And on the other hand... even organized maps failed in like 50% of the cases, even more for the first few weeks.
So you example is pretty bad, in both cases leechers had nothing to do with a map failing of being successful at all.

 

1 hour ago, radda.8920 said:

players had to be genuinely involved in order to be successful. I saw very few leechers and even almost none.

 

Because you were busy doing the event actively.
Leechers were always there, and not significantly less than nowadays.

 

1 hour ago, radda.8920 said:

If the boss is complicated with very little hope for success, it will be a race for everyone to be efficient and hope to succeed

Obviously that does not prevent having a few leechers, but it will drastically reduce them.

 

It won't reduce anything.
It will cause more maps to fail and that topic already were discussed above too, scoll up.
It's the same as the other user said -> you would punish a whole map of people, just to hit a few leechers.
I'm not interested in repeating half of the thread, like I said, scroll up for that topic.

 

1 hour ago, radda.8920 said:

 

And there would even be methods to get rid of them permanently especially in private instances like dragon storm:  0 tp, aoe and mobs that attack stationary players around the area, one death= no reward  ... But obviously with the gw2 community, we can forget it

It's the same kind of argument than above,
you want to punish dozens of players, just to hit a few leechers.

Not every player is a good as fractal CM or raid players and most of them don't even want to be.
They won't dodge every attack and will die every now and then.
That's why they do open world stuff and not fractals, raids etc., because open world allows them to play how they want.

Turning a casual friendly game mode into a challenging environment, is the stupiest solution you can have.
Because the best thing ist -> it won't keep any afk players from leeching at all.
They search a safe spot, hit what's required and grab their loot.
But hey, congratulation you punished like 70% of the playerbase and reached nothing. 😉

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I can’t believe some would complain about leechers when all the content released through Champions also feature your own private instances in which you have full control off.

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5 hours ago, Karaha.3290 said:

and like I said -> no innovative or interesting mechanic, no coordination and no level of difficulty can keep away leechers.

but you're wrong on that point, why would people put an alt in dragonstorm is they don't get any reward because the event failed due to them 😘

but the issue is people being unhappy about other leeching but they still want the opportunity to do it themselves 😜

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Karaha.3290 said:

We already got that marionette example, scroll up -> people needed to actively jump to their maps,
that's why afk people rarely were on organized maps (they mostly were full again right after the event was done).
And unorganized maps were doomed to fail anyway, no matter how many leechers were there.

And Tequatls... yeah on the one hand it was the same -> less afk players on organized maps, because it needed to be active (well, active clicking).
And on the other hand... even organized maps failed in like 50% of the cases, even more for the first few weeks.
So you example is pretty bad, in both cases leechers had nothing to do with a map failing of being successful at all.

 

 

Because you were busy doing the event actively.
Leechers were always there, and not significantly less than nowadays.

 

 

It won't reduce anything.
It will cause more maps to fail and that topic already were discussed above too, scoll up.
It's the same as the other user said -> you would punish a whole map of people, just to hit a few leechers.
I'm not interested in repeating half of the thread, like I said, scroll up for that topic.

 

It's the same kind of argument than above,
you want to punish dozens of players, just to hit a few leechers.

Not every player is a good as fractal CM or raid players and most of them don't even want to be.
They won't dodge every attack and will die every now and then.
That's why they do open world stuff and not fractals, raids etc., because open world allows them to play how they want.

Turning a casual friendly game mode into a challenging environment, is the stupiest solution you can have.
Because the best thing ist -> it won't keep any afk players from leeching at all.
They search a safe spot, hit what's required and grab their loot.
But hey, congratulation you punished like 70% of the playerbase and reached nothing. 😉

 

I do not see why I am wrong, precisely the maps that succeeded the twisted marionette  and tequalt suddenly no longer had any leechers, that's what I'm saying. I don't care about the maps that failed these bosses, they just had to get organized...

This is proof that when bosses ask for organization, we get rid of leechers and we leave them alone on maps that fail.

I'm totally right actually ...

And for the rest , you told me that the difficulty does not prevent the appearance of leechers, I proved you that it was wrong. With real difficulty and certain conditions we get rid of it completely. maybe it punishes casual players. But personally I would have liked arena to make this choice very early so that we have a community with more talented players, it would make the game less boring in the open world ... but that's a personal opinion.

 

You just have to see what happened at the release of HOT. The game was just great with a difficulty that finally required involvement and adaptation. and the army of players who spend their time to spam 1 have come to complain. Arena increased the difficulty too late, players with a good level were already gone for a while (during Living story 1)

 

i have played a lot of mmo and i have never seen so many leechers as on gw2. This is proof that a game which is far too simple has an effect on this parameter.

Because players can stand still without any repercussions. And they can even take the rewards without doing anything....

 

We have a totally different vision of what we want for this game. And your vision is the cause of the leechers. So don't complain about what you're provoking.

You got the community you deserve, asking for easy content, always easier.We are at a level where a lot of players were even asking that Arena nerf DRM, do you realize? DRM 🤨 It's just a side effect and it's too late to change anything

Edited by radda.8920
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On 6/6/2021 at 3:09 AM, Fangoth.4503 said:

but you're wrong on that point, why would people put an alt in dragonstorm is they don't get any reward because the event failed due to them

 

They do at Triple Trouble, they did at Tequatl when he got powered up
and yes they caused some fail maps at Tequatl.
The problem at your logic is -> they don't care, they are afk.
It failed? Okay, so they come back next time and go afk.

 

No matter how often an event fails,
every time it succeeds, it's free loot for them.
While they loose nothing, if it's fails, because they are afk anyways.

 

Before arguing, you should think of why people go afk and how they benefit from it.
Otherwise (like now) you come up with a bunch of false/unthought points and others have to explain you the basic circumstances.

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18 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

I do not see why I am wrong, precisely the maps that succeeded the twisted marionette  and tequalt suddenly no longer had any leechers, that's what I'm saying. I don't care about the maps that failed these bosses, they just had to get organized...

This is proof that when bosses ask for organization, we get rid of leechers and we leave them alone on maps that fail.

I'm totally right actually ...

 

You completely ignored all important points, congratulation...

 

 

18 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

And for the rest , you told me that the difficulty does not prevent the appearance of leechers, I proved you that it was wrong. With real difficulty and certain conditions we get rid of it completely. maybe it punishes casual players.

 

Eh... you proved nothing.
I showed that it just would punish tons of active players, but you ignored that too...

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2 minutes ago, Karaha.3290 said:

 

They do at Triple Trouble, they did at Tequatl when he got powered up
and yes they caused some fail maps at Tequatl.
The problem at your logic is -> they don't care, they are afk.
It failed? Okay, so they come back next time and go afk.

 

No matter how often an event fails,
every time it succeeds, it's free loot for them.
While they loose nothing, if it's fails, because they are afk anyways.

 

Before arguing, you should think of why people go afk and how they benefit from it.
Otherwise (like now) you come up with a bunch of false/unthought points and others have to explain you the basic circumstances.

 

Your point is only valid if only they ever get loot, which wasn't my point 😅 i don't see afk player at 4am (or whatever time it'sisduring the night) tequatl because it never succeed at that hour.

If it always fail people will make their own squad and filter out afk/underperforming players and the problem is solved.
look at fractal or raid afk players are not common there and its like dragonstorm, you can kick players out of the group/squad.
but so far people are just fine with it because afk/underperforming player literally have no influence on the win/loss.

WB is another issue as they are not instanced (i wish they were but eh) but hey if it was harder like tripple terror people would actually make a squad beforhand and jump on a map a sqjoin on the emptiest map.

In the end you're just affraid that cutting on afk player would also make players doing auta attacks in nomad gear unable to have their reward and rightly so. Alike for afk player, no one would tolerate that nomad players leech on the world boss if the reward would be on the line.

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1 minute ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

 

Your point is only valid if only they ever get loot, which wasn't my point. i don't see afk player at 4am (or whatever time it'sisduring the night) tequatl because it never succeed at that hour.

 

 

But they do get loot. And if they don't, they will next time.

 

Are you on NA servers?
Because on EU Tequatl get done successful at 4am. And there are afk players.

 

1 minute ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

WB is another issue as they are not instanced (i wish they were but eh) but hey if it was harder like tripple terror people would actually make a squad beforhand and jump on a map a sqjoin on the emptiest map.

 

Have you player Triple Trouble in pre HoT days?
I ran that even daily with a community for years, starting in pre HoT days when even well organized maps had a high chance to fail.
The organization was literally as you said.
The whole community jumped on the map several times to force up a new and empty map,
then started taxiing all players to that map.

After that there were three results map-wise.
1.) All players came to the new map and the remaining free slots were filled by random players -> including afk people.

2.) There were too many players for one map -> the map is filled with (almost) ony community players, but there were many that couldn't do the event, because of the full map.

3.) There were so many players, that the community organized two maps at the same time.
Both maps ended up with less community players than 1. and more random players -> more afk people.

 

It ended either with random/afk people on the map or with community people getting excluded.

 

 

1 minute ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

In the end you're just affraid that cutting on afk player would also make players doing auta attacks in nomad gear unable to have their reward and rightly so. Alike for afk player, no one would tolerate that nomad players leech on the world boss if the reward would be on the line.

 

That was actually one of the first and most important arguments here, yes...
Leaving the players the freedom of what build they play and what gear they use
is one of the most important aspects of the open world.
Calling a player a leecher, because he doesn't use the most optimal gear, ist just toxic AF.
Such stupid elitism is common for fractals and raids, but for open world? That's new.... dude....

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Karaha.3290 said:

 

But they do get loot. And if they don't, they will next time.

 

Are you on NA servers?
Because on EU Tequatl get done successful at 4am. And there are afk players.

 

 

Have you player Triple Trouble in pre HoT days?
I ran that even daily with a community for years, starting in pre HoT days when even well organized maps had a high chance to fail.
The organization was literally as you said.
The whole community jumped on the map several times to force up a new and empty map,
then started taxiing all players to that map.

After that there were three results map-wise.
1.) All players came to the new map and the remaining free slots were filled by random players -> including afk people.

2.) There were too many players for one map -> the map is filled with (almost) ony community players, but there were many that couldn't do the event, because of the full map.

3.) There were so many players, that the community organized two maps at the same time.
Both maps ended up with less community players than 1. and more random players -> more afk people.

 

It ended either with random/afk people on the map or with community people getting excluded.

 

 

 

That was actually one of the first and most important arguments here, yes...
Leaving the players the freedom of what build they play and what gear they use
is one of the most important aspects of the open world.
Calling a player a leecher, because he doesn't use the most optimal gear, ist just toxic AF.
Such stupid elitism is common for fractals and raids, but for open world? That's new.... dude....

 

You still don't get the point. There is leecher because they have the loot. No loot no leechers!

Yeah I'm from EU and no I don't run teq at 4am so pbly changed eh.

Oh I was in triple trouble pre hot, joining discord, jumping on a map check-in IP and joining on the proper map to have a chance.

But the issue wasn't afk players but the massive amount of player playing wrong build/stats and yeah that included me with my core necro staff  with condi vita tough gear and doing 2k DPS in burst. And it was the same at tequatl release. If it rarely fail nowadays is because a good amount of player improved their DPS by hot releasing raid and making player be more aware of their build/stats.

If it wasn't for it coms would still cry to have fire elementals spawn by all players.

 

Leeching is getting the reward when someone else do the job for you so yeah player doing not even a tenth of other DPS and provide no boon or heal to their team are leeching whether you like it or not. Nothing toxic about that, it's just being realistic. If the player would have copied and paste build and gear they would be able to do acceptable DPS just by auto attacking (~50% of benchmark for most dps builds).

 

Ofc more stats than meta one can be played but it takes you to know a minimum about what you're doing before actually doing it. I'm first one to go have fun with offmeta builds/stats in raid (eg: seraph or celestial hFB) but if you have no idea of what you're doing you're useless to your team instead of giving descent heal while increasing your dps.

 

Elitism is not new, just look at tequatl or triple terror at release, it was the most toxic place ever. Dungeon still toxic AF asking for people to be 80 when it doesn't matter because you can solo it and make 4 new player or people locking up happy and they are not even much worse than most lv 80 players anyway.

 

As long as you'll have player not being to perform to an acceptable level (auto attack with appropriate setup) yeah you'll find elitism. And it's not ever gonna change if the game keep favor contents that allow leaching (fully afk or running useless setup) against running a proper set-up.

 

As toxic can be used for whatever.

Just stop being toxic againg descent gameplay, thanks 

Edited by Fangoth.4503
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On 6/7/2021 at 2:48 PM, Fangoth.4503 said:

 

You still don't get the point. There is leecher because they have the loot. No loot no leechers!

That logic requires that the leechers know if the event they join will fail or not.
But obviously they don't know and no event fails because of a few afk players.
They will join maps, even if the event has a lower chance to succeed,
simply because it's free.

 

If you want to keep leechers away that way, events would need to be more difficult than raids, even than raid cm's,
because even Dhuum CM can be done with leechers (-> ppl sell them).
And with that it's again the same as mentioned all the way long -> you would punish tons of active players, just to hit a few leechers.

 

On 6/7/2021 at 2:48 PM, Fangoth.4503 said:

But the issue wasn't afk players

You say it yourself, leechers are no issue.
So why bother at all?

 

On 6/7/2021 at 2:48 PM, Fangoth.4503 said:

 

Leeching is getting the reward when someone else do the job for you so yeah player doing not even a tenth of other DPS and provide no boon or heal to their team are leeching whether you like it or not. Nothing toxic about that, it's just being realistic. If the player would have copied and paste build and gear they would be able to do acceptable DPS just by auto attacking (~50% of benchmark for most dps builds).

"I'm soo much better than you, so you are useless, you are leeching"
Dude, that is toxic af
and absolutely against all what a casual friendly, player friendly game want's to be.

 

 

On 6/7/2021 at 2:48 PM, Fangoth.4503 said:

Ofc more stats than meta one can be played but it takes you to know a minimum about what you're doing before actually doing it. I'm first one to go have fun with offmeta builds/stats in raid (eg: seraph or celestial hFB) but if you have no idea of what you're doing you're useless to your team instead of giving descent heal while increasing your dps.

I already said it before, if you want content that requires certain gear/builds and a certain level of skills,
you have raids and fractals.
Open world is not this kind of content. You should accept that.

 

 

On 6/7/2021 at 2:48 PM, Fangoth.4503 said:

Elitism is not new

Which doesn't make it any better.

 

On 6/7/2021 at 2:48 PM, Fangoth.4503 said:

As toxic can be used for whatever.

Just stop being toxic againg descent gameplay, thanks 

It can, but not everything can be declared as toxic, lol...

But hey, feel free to explain how it is "toxic" to keep a gamemode that is open for all kind of players and all kind of skill level - to give every player the freedom to play as they want - as it is
an not turn it into another challenging gamemode the game already have multiple from.

Your turn.

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On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

 

I do not see why I am wrong, precisely the maps that succeeded the twisted marionette  and tequalt suddenly no longer had any leechers, that's what I'm saying.

But that's not true at all... o.O

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

I don't care about the maps that failed these bosses, they just had to get organized...

That's the difference.
As a game designer you have to care about all players and the success rate for all events/maps.
If an open world permanently fails for any map that has a few afk ppl or some players with <5k dps,
it's simply  a very very poor balanced event.
Actually the balance failed at that point.

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

This is proof that when bosses ask for organization, we get rid of leechers and we leave them alone on maps that fail.

I'm totally right actually ...

Like I said some times before -> you won't get rid of leechers by making an event more difficult.
They don't care how much trouble they cause or if the event fails because of them -> they are afk.
And if they won't get loot because the event fails, they simply will be there at the next event and stay afk.

 

Leeching doesn't require any effort.
You are wrong, if you think that those ppl will think "oh, the event doesn't work, if I'm leeching. So I will play actively / So I will leave the map".
They will come back next time and hope that it works then, because it's free loot for them.
No matter if 4 of 5 events fail, it's still free loot.

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

And for the rest , you told me that the difficulty does not prevent the appearance of leechers, I proved you that it was wrong.

Eh... no, it was the other way round.
Better read again. 🙂

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

With real difficulty and certain conditions we get rid of it completely. maybe it punishes casual players. But personally I would have liked arena to make this choice very early so that we have a community with more talented players, it would make the game less boring in the open world ... but that's a personal opinion.

A personal opinion that would kill the game, if game designers of this kind of a game would think so.

 

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

You just have to see what happened at the release of HOT. The game was just great with a difficulty that finally required involvement and adaptation. and the army of players who spend their time to spam 1 have come to complain.

It wasn't only the spam 1 part of the community who complained.

But your example is very good to see what happens, if open world stuff become too difficult -> it will scare away the biggest part of the playerbase.

An open world boss with raid level difficulty (if not more) simply wouldn't be done.
Maybe some raid guilds would do them, but no "normal" guild and no community, since they simple weren't able to beat it.
And yet there would be leechers, following those raid guilds to their maps and go afk waiting for their free loot.

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

i have played a lot of mmo and i have never seen so many leechers as on gw2.

You forget that the loot system of GW2 isn't widespread.
Most MMO's use the egoistic loot system where the player/group witht he most dmg gets the loot.
That means it's useless to leech most of the time, because you don't get any loot.

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

This is proof that a game which is far too simple has an effect on this parameter.

1.) It's no proof at all, since your personal, subjective experience can't prove anything.
2.) See above. Difficulty is not the (only) reason for leechers.

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

We have a totally different vision of what we want for this game.

I agree.
But your vision of killing all casual stuff in the game is delusional.
It's pretty obvious that this game will never change into a "hardmode only" game that get rid of all casual stuff.
This game lives from casuals, it's even GW2's big adventages above other MMOs that it is so casual friendly.

 

You shouldn't ask what "you want for the game",
you should ask wha you can get from the game.
And then you should play that parts that you like instead of trying to change the parts you don't like by 180° to make them fit your taste.

If you don't like most of the game, maybe it's not the right game for you. You should consider that.

 

 

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

And your vision is the cause of the leechers. So don't complain about what you're provoking.

Ehm... where exactly did I complain about leechers?
Can you quote that part? I'm curious.

 

I don't care about leechers, since they won't affect me, my loot or my experience at all.

 

On 6/6/2021 at 3:23 PM, radda.8920 said:

You got the community you deserve, asking for easy content, always easier.We are at a level where a lot of players were even asking that Arena nerf DRM, do you realize?

So?
Do you really want to deny other people's opinion, just because they don't fit yours?
Some want easier content, some want harder and every "kind" of players get their gamemode.
Trying to "hijack" open world events to get more raid like content, is just stupid.

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On 6/8/2021 at 6:45 PM, Karaha.3290 said:

That logic requires that the leechers know if the event they join will fail or not.
But obviously they don't know and no event fails because of a few afk players.
They will join maps, even if the event has a lower chance to succeed,
simply because it's free.

 

If you want to keep leechers away that way, events would need to be more difficult than raids, even than raid cm's,
because even Dhuum CM can be done with leechers (-> ppl sell them).
And with that it's again the same as mentioned all the way long -> you would punish tons of active players, just to hit a few leechers.

Meh you still don't get it but its ok.
FYI buyers are not leechs as the give mystic coins in echange of the kill

 

On 6/8/2021 at 6:45 PM, Karaha.3290 said:

You say it yourself, leechers are no issue.
So why bother at all?

I said afk players weren't the sole issue but leechers as a whole were the issue. If all would have done descent dps/give usefull boon or heal then the event would have been easily successful even with afk player

 

On 6/8/2021 at 6:45 PM, Karaha.3290 said:

"I'm soo much better than you, so you are useless, you are leeching"
Dude, that is toxic af
and absolutely against all what a casual friendly, player friendly game want's to be.

Is your only line of defence calling people toxic? maybe you want to put an argument to help your defence.
so far the exemple is:
-a player that do negligeable DPS, bring no usefull boons/buff and do not heal.
and the use definition of leech is easily found on google:

 

leech1
/liːtʃ/
 
verb
gerund or present participle: leeching
  1. habitually exploit or rely on.
    "he's leeching off the abilities of others"

So do you have anything better than "ook ook toxic af" in your toolkit that could be used to show what the players listed above bring to the party that make them useful and so not leeching?

As I mentionned before casual != bad. I'm a casual player and i'm still able to perform descently and the same is true for a lot of players.
 

On 6/8/2021 at 6:45 PM, Karaha.3290 said:

I already said it before, if you want content that requires certain gear/builds and a certain level of skills,
you have raids and fractals.
Open world is not this kind of content. You should accept that.

No worries i'm not the one that complain about it. So far i'm not the one started a post against leechers i'm just telling other that you cannot remove one side of leeching without removing the other.
You don't want leechers, makes content harder.
You want people to be able to leech then don't complain that some people just afk in instances
And you should accept that 🙂

 

On 6/8/2021 at 6:45 PM, Karaha.3290 said:

It can, but not everything can be declared as toxic, lol...

But hey, feel free to explain how it is "toxic" to keep a gamemode that is open for all kind of players and all kind of skill level - to give every player the freedom to play as they want - as it is
an not turn it into another challenging gamemode the game already have multiple from.

Your turn.

Then you should stop calling people toxic when nothing even close to toxic was said and start use proper argument to defend your point.
everyone is free to play as they want but it change nothing to the fact that a player that do negligeable DPS, bring no usefull boons/buff and do not heal is leeching the reward from the players that did at least one of the 3 role mentionned. I never said that there is something wrong about it, I just exposed solutions to leeching as the topic creator seems to be against it.
But hey maybe you'll come up with an argument that makes me believe the mentionned kind of player actually bring sothing to the party and makes them not leechs anymore.


Or just hit with a "you're toxic" because you cannot come out with something that would prove me wrong...

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10 hours ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

FYI buyers are not leechs as the give mystic coins in echange of the kill

But that wasn't my point at all...
My point was, that even raid CM's theoretically can be leeched, since even Dhuum CM can be done with less than 10 ppl.

So if you really want to make a worldboss so difficult that it fails, if there are a hand full leecher (or ppl with low dmg),
you had to choose a difficulty that is even harder than Dhuum CM.
And that's as far from reality as it could be.

 

Quote

I said afk players weren't the sole issue but leechers as a whole were the issue. If all would have done descent dps/give usefull boon or heal then the event would have been easily successful even with afk player

And again your "you play as you want and not the best way possible, LeEcHeR!!" toxic bubbling...
You should accept that open world is not what you imagine it is.

 

Quote

Is your only line of defence calling people toxic?

Not, it's all the arguments you graceful ignore. 😉

Calling you toxic is... you know, because your argument were toxic.

 

Quote

a player that do negligeable DPS, bring no usefull boons/buff and do not heal.
and the use definition of leech is easily found on google:

[...]

Helping others the way you can (even if it's not "the best way" or "useful" in your eyes)
has nothing to do with leeching.
They actively do the event and participate, even if their "influence" isn't as much as you would like.

 

Quote

As I mentionned before casual != bad. I'm a casual player and i'm still able to perform descently and the same is true for a lot of players.

And yet there are tons of players who simply don't care if they "peform descently" or not.
They play the build they like, can do everything they want and participate in open world events, because the do not require anyone to "peform descently".

 

Quote

No worries i'm not the one that complain about it. So far i'm not the one started a post against leechers i'm just telling other that you cannot remove one side of leeching without removing the other.
You don't want leechers, makes content harder.
You want people to be able to leech then don't complain that some people just afk in instances
And you should accept that 🙂

Yeah, I think the "problem" in our communication is the different definition of "leeching" we have.
For me a leecher is someone who actively abuse others to get something -> staying afk and wait that others do the event.
For you I think leechers also include those who "needs the help" of other players and peform much worse than others.
In other words those people I called casuals.

 

The "make content harder" argument aside,
I think we actually agree, that you can't get rid of afk leechers, without scaring away casuals / "leechers who play actively".

 

PS. Probably it's my fault, I'm not a native english speaker and it happens that I understand things wrong.
But using english forums, chats etc. is a good way for me to increase my english,
so at least I learn from (most) misunderstandings. ^^

Edited by Karaha.3290
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yes it is unfair that there are leechers, but in some way i understand it. i have done total 5 runs, as a support class (healers) and i did not get rewarded. the reward effort is very bad here, i understand if you do this event from release and do not get rewarded you start to leech. (i am not like that) i mean if you do nothing and get nothing it is balanced (and yes this is not fair for all other players which work their ... off) but it is also unfair if you play for 100% and every fight is a time waste. it would be much better if you have more chances a day for the ascended loot each account, then you do 1 day and many runs, without getting disappointed every day but 1 only day.
they have to fix this asap. true it is ascended, but cmon. keeping content alive this way by letting ppl waste time without getting something for the work. ppl who create gemstore items also want money for their work and effort in it, so why not ingame items. 
it doesn't hurt anyone if ppl get gift of aurene or not. the very first kill it should be a choice of reward, the sword or gift of aurene.

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3 hours ago, titje.2745 said:

yes it is unfair that there are leechers, but in some way i understand it. i have done total 5 runs, as a support class (healers) and i did not get rewarded. the reward effort is very bad here, i understand if you do this event from release and do not get rewarded you start to leech. (i am not like that) i mean if you do nothing and get nothing it is balanced (and yes this is not fair for all other players which work their ... off) but it is also unfair if you play for 100% and every fight is a time waste. it would be much better if you have more chances a day for the ascended loot each account, then you do 1 day and many runs, without getting disappointed every day but 1 only day.
they have to fix this asap. true it is ascended, but cmon. keeping content alive this way by letting ppl waste time without getting something for the work. ppl who create gemstore items also want money for their work and effort in it, so why not ingame items. 
it doesn't hurt anyone if ppl get gift of aurene or not. the very first kill it should be a choice of reward, the sword or gift of aurene.

Unfortunately, the easiest way (I can think of) to solve a true "leeching" problem is to introduce a timeout disconnect due to AFK activity. I think there is one for GW2, but it's set remarkably high, and I'm not sure that would solve anything anyway, since the published API and an allowance for multi-boxing seems to me it would make it fairly easy to set up some sort of script that would cause an AFK player to hit 1 every so often, or any key really, since it isn't participation in an event required to avoid AFK disconnect; just input.

 

And as you point out, some of the rewards for completion are meh at best. Two gold for Dragonstorm once a day is super nice, but I can get more gold from that with less effort in the same amount of time just farming, frankly.

 

Using your Gift of Aurene as an example: I did Dragonstorm probably 100 times before that dropped. Still a GREAT reward to have a "free" ascended" weapon. But by that time, I'd crafted four full sets of ascended gear, and had an arsenal of ascended weapons I store in the bank because my characters are full up on those, too. For ascended weapons as a reward, completing each elite specialization collection awards an ascended weapon on completion, and other than having to finish a map in a specific area of Tyria, don't take much longer than running through Dragonstorm a few times.

 

This seems like another issue that is caused by the environment: multi-boxing, an API, a long (if any) AFK timeout. All of these things have benefits that might outweigh their potential for player abuse, though, so I don't know if it would an overall benefit or penalty to change them. And, as this thread indicates, there doesn't seem to be a way forward that suits even a plurality of players.

 

And you're right. It doesn't hurt me at all if someone else gets an ascended drop who may or may not have put in less effort. Them's the breaks.

 

Mostly, it seems like the "what to do bout leechers" conversations are like focusing on whether or not you want a herd of cats to go to the museum or the ballpark, while missing out on the fact that first you have to ... herd cats. I think several things would have to change in the environment to even make a one-size-fits-all leecher deterrent possible, and I don't think those things are likely to change soon.

 

Edited by Danger Ferret.6342
herding cats
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59 minutes ago, Danger Ferret.6342 said:

And as you point out, some of the rewards for completion are meh at best. Two gold for Dragonstorm once a day is super nice, but I can get more gold from that with less effort in the same amount of time just farming, frankly.

2 gold is not rewarding, i play a support role to make an event a succes, i ress ppl the whole time, i play the objective. and when the loot chest pops up i get the middlefinger.  (as i always say, i am a player that play for loot) 

59 minutes ago, Danger Ferret.6342 said:

 

And you're right. It doesn't hurt me at all if someone else gets an ascended drop who may or may not have put in less effort. Them's the breaks.

 

i mean it doesn't hurt Anet if players loot nice or not aslong it's not sell able at the trading post. it hurts me while i do my very best and others showing the loot they got. 

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2 hours ago, titje.2745 said:

2 gold is not rewarding, i play a support role to make an event a succes, i ress ppl the whole time, i play the objective. and when the loot chest pops up i get the middlefinger.  (as i always say, i am a player that play for loot) 

 

i mean it doesn't hurt Anet if players loot nice or not aslong it's not sell able at the trading post. it hurts me while i do my very best and others showing the loot they got. 

But the randomness of drops means that could happen any time. I try my very best at every event I attend. Other players do too. Not all of them, of course, but many. Luck decides what we get in a chest, so rewards - unless guaranteed rewards like the 2gp - are always uneven between players.

 

Personally, other than noting there are some people standing around, I'm always too busy playing the game to monitor what everyone else is and isn't doing, and whether their dps/buffs/etc are equal to my own.

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On 5/10/2021 at 6:21 PM, Lenny.1462 said:

Everyday i do dragonstorm i see ~5 leechers, only attacking jormag/primordus for the AP and go afk for the rest of the time. I see the SAME guys doing that over and over. A "report for leeching" option, like in gw1 PvP would be a great feature.

The design of fight is encouraging leeching behavior so you can't report leecher for it.

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and another disappointed run, i fully understand the leechers here (won't leech myself because i am not a person like that)but, imagine how you feel after every run each day while you worked your ... off just for junk loot, days after days junk loot and you put in so much effort. and some ppl who did maybe not so much are pining their gift of aurene. how can this be motivated?
you should for every 10 runs get a gift of aurene to make it fair. (like completing x amount of dungeons for a dungeon master crate) i feel like i am being used now. 
this way more and more ppl will start leeching, because they (maybe) have done their effort before without getting rewarded.
and now getting their loot this way, if you didn't help and not get rewarded then it doesn't hurt. 

this event is just too unfair. this have to be fixed soon. 
and also it should be that you can do more runs a day for the gift of aurene. not just 1 day chance. 
keep the playerbase happy. 

 

Edit: to make it even more worse, i just whispered the person who got a gift of aurene and asked how many runs he had done before it dropped.......

Spoiler

it was his first run

 

Edited by Holmindeboks.3490
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