Blumpf.2518 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) Thx Balance Patch ^^ Necro new raid meta 😛 No Fine Tuning, no rota optimization, just quick and dirty dps at 2 golems Singletarget Golem DPS: about 31.000  https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-a54d64-1620812116.jpg.html  With infusions, rota optimization etc. theres a lot more dps possible. The Balance patch was really good for us condi necros. Guildmate already reached 34k.  Equip. Full Viper. Rune of the Nightmare Weapons: Sceptre/Torch + Sceptre/Dagger Sigill of Malice, Sigill of Earth 1x +5 Expertise Infusion Bufffood: Koi Cake, Furious Tuning Crystal  Traits: Curses: Up, up, low Soul Reaping: up, up, low Scourge: middle, middle middle  Edited May 12, 2021 by Blumpf.2518 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 I should say congratulation on joining the >35k club...how many years does it took 😠 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Fascinating.. What exactly have changed for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) Doesn't seem to be "OP" to me. Incredibly slow damage ramp to reasonable damage, so it won't be able to compete on short phased traditional power/burst bosses. Will drop of drastically in traditional Condi DPS fights due to those being rather dynamic and often including Boss movement (Matthias, Twins, SH etc.), and further to take additional Utility such as Epidemic and Sand Flare.  Regardless, makes me happy to see Necro have a good benchmark after all these years - even if being competitive in DPS on completely static bosses which don't phase is pretty niche.  17 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said: Fascinating.. What exactly have changed for us? Torment now does increased damage against static, rather than moving targets, drastically inflating numbers at the Golem. Edited May 12, 2021 by Asum.4960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 17 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said: Doesn't seem to be "OP" to me. Incredibly slow damage ramp to reasonable damage, so it won't be able to compete on short phased traditional power/burst bosses. Will drop of drastically in traditional Condi DPS fights due to those being rather dynamic and often including Boss movement (Matthias, Twins, SH etc.), and further to take additional Utility such as Epidemic and Sand Flare.  Regardless, makes me happy to see Necro have a good benchmark after all these years - even if being competitive in DPS on completely static bosses which don't phase is pretty niche.  Torment now does increased damage against static, rather than moving targets, drastically inflating numbers at the Golem.  Yeah, I can see that this pretty limited in application unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 38 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said: Doesn't seem to be "OP" to me. Incredibly slow damage ramp to reasonable damage, so it won't be able to compete on short phased traditional power/burst bosses. Will drop of drastically in traditional Condi DPS fights due to those being rather dynamic and often including Boss movement (Matthias, Twins, SH etc.), and further to take additional Utility such as Epidemic and Sand Flare.  Regardless, makes me happy to see Necro have a good benchmark after all these years - even if being competitive in DPS on completely static bosses which don't phase is pretty niche.  Torment now does increased damage against static, rather than moving targets, drastically inflating numbers at the Golem. Soul barbs is also all damage instead of just strike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said: Soul barbs is also all damage instead of just strike The Soul Barbs and Barbed Precision buffs are definitely nice, but they aren't 7k extra damage nice. The majority of the difference comes form the Torment changes, which makes it now better against static, usually power fights (and benchmarking Golems), and worse against dynamic, usually condi fights - save for some exceptions (Cairn and Sabir for example probably will not like Scourges much). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 54 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said: The Soul Barbs and Barbed Precision buffs are definitely nice, but they aren't 7k extra damage nice. The majority of the difference comes form the Torment changes, which makes it now better against static, usually power fights (and benchmarking Golems), and worse against dynamic, usually condi fights - save for some exceptions (Cairn and Sabir for example probably will not like Scourges much). Right every little helps and it's good you now mention the barbed precision change as well to give a more complete answer, I completely forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Other professions had some peak dps shaved so expect Necro and it's elites to be welcomed in the dps role for PUGs. Barrier-slave Scourge is still legitimate for wipe insurance, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 30 minutes ago, Anchoku.8142 said: Other professions had some peak dps shaved so expect Necro and it's elites to be welcomed in the dps role for PUGs. Barrier-slave Scourge is still legitimate for wipe insurance, too. Think the pug crowd wont believe it before they see snowcrowds post about it. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) I expected around 32k.  36k is impressive. I thought the 10 second condi cap would cost some of the dps that soul barbs and the torment rework add - then I realized that this affects only non damaging conditions. 🤪 Edited May 12, 2021 by KrHome.1920 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Dont worry guys.  They also introduced a new necro nerf (well its a bug, but yeah) after dismounting, or after getting out of any transformation, your lifeforce will turn green (core shroud), and the indicator of how many shades are active just vanishes.  its just the profession mechanic around which basically everything revolves xD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Its not OP at all. But the damage is competitive with other professions for sure which is really nice. This means scourge will be good on specific raid fights and meta on a select few more. Like Sabetha. You still wont really want to take a necromancer into something like Largos but all the raids scourge is considered mediocre in they'll be at least good which is far better than they were just a month ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 I think its pretty sad for us necros to think of higher damage as OP for us, when its mere parity with other proffessions. But in a way if you think about it, scourges doesnt have the second lifebar of Core/Reapers, so they should have more damage when not as tanky. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny.7236 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 For me its better not OP;  Started doing T4 fractals as condi scourge with my guild then BS War followed by Power reaper & now back to condi scourge.  Just glad to have kept all his viper gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragi.7291 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited)  we are absolutely not OP, we just become a normal dps with 36k. Why? we have condi renegat at more than 40K who have debuff , CC and support skills out of rota. Mirages at 43K dps with 25 power buff and alac on 10people, fury and vigor at 5 people Thief condi at + 42k dps condi weaver +40K dps Tempest Warhorn 38K dps FB ... (still no counterpart, with instant mantra (usable even if you are CC) + still a lot of support possibilities) .... Saying it's OP, will just end with a nerf and we'll still be at bottom of dps for 3 years.  Edited May 13, 2021 by Ragi.7291 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Ragi.7291 said:  we are absolutely not OP, we just become a normal dps with 36k. Why? we have condi renegat at more than 40K who have debuff , CC and support skills out of rota. Mirages at 43K dps with 25 power buff and alac on 10people, fury and vigor at 5 people Thief condi at + 42k dps condi weaver +40K dps Tempest Warhorn 38K dps FB ... (still no counterpart, with instant mantra (usable even if you are CC) + still a lot of support possibilities) .... Saying it's OP, will just end with a nerf and we'll still be at bottom of dps for 3 years.  I remember years ago when 30k in raid was considered good and 37k will be hotfixed within a week. How the powercreep has gone off for everyone lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, NICENIKESHOE.7128 said: I remember years ago when 30k in raid was considered good and 37k will be hotfixed within a week. How the powercreep has gone off for everyone lol  Yeah, at that time, the necromancer's max dps potential was at 25k...  1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiravor.1257 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Was about to say, that is not high dps, but already beat to it by everyone. At least it is a good warm over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Personally, considering that Scourge has support built in much more than Reaper, while also being durable and having a DPS which is not severely punished when taking damage (unlike Reaper), I hope ArenaNet will consider adjusting numbers a bit to make sure that Reaper can be better for DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragi.7291 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 hours ago, NICENIKESHOE.7128 said: I remember years ago when 30k in raid was considered good and 37k will be hotfixed within a week. How the powercreep has gone off for everyone lol Completely agree on the powercreep. I find that they should reduce damages of all classes at the turn of 30K plateau which is largely sufficient. But with this patch, they increase the plateau to 40K, even power dps are below that. So if you're at 30K you're 10K below the threshold and you're out of meta with people saying "Ah you play Necro, don't you want to change?" or they just leave because there's a necro in the group before anything starts. That's been happening for 3 years in fractal CM for example. And generally speaking, even at the beginning of the game, necro was kicked out of the dungeons because he didn't bring anything to the group, worse he nerfed the buffs with his combo zones. And it hasn't progressed much in 9 years unfortunately. (in PVE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindBlade.8749 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Ragi.7291 said: Completely agree on the powercreep. I find that they should reduce damages of all classes at the turn of 30K plateau which is largely sufficient. But with this patch, they increase the plateau to 40K, even power dps are below that. 7 hours ago, NICENIKESHOE.7128 said: I remember years ago when 30k in raid was considered good and 37k will be hotfixed within a week. How the powercreep has gone off for everyone lol And it hasn't progressed much in 9 years unfortunately. (in PVE) i remember years ago before that where some class were at 45k and some at 60k, yes too the unpower creeps, for serious you just cherry pick, we got a lot of different era, in the past where we do less than now or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euclid.2517 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 If you just look at number, it is not OP. But It is actually OP, given that how forgiving the rotation is (if you call that a rotation at all), how tanky the class is, and that the scepter is an actual range weapon. The above factors make this class strong in real combat scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Euclid.2517 said: If you just look at number, it is not OP. But It is actually OP, given that how forgiving the rotation is (if you call that a rotation at all), how tanky the class is, and that the scepter is an actual range weapon. The above factors make this class strong in real combat scenarios. Scourges is not dealing well with enemy movement. Stepping out of shade area and taking much less damage from torment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhaid Zhem.6508 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Then, as before, random light field/fb cleanse your auto-bleedings and auto-torments, you already lose 4k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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