New Condi DPS Necro OP

[Ragi.7291]

On 5/13/2021 at 2:32 PM, Euclid.2517 said:

If you just look at number, it is not OP.

But It is actually OP, given that how forgiving the rotation is (if you call that a rotation at all), how tanky the class is, and that the scepter is an actual range weapon. 

The above factors make this class strong in real combat scenarios.

To have some rotation simpler than others is good for the game, it is necessary for all the tastes.
You want me to show you the Daredevil rotation, the DH hammer rotation 4 years ago = auto attack, ...
Many classes have a rotation / priorities not complicated, and it is normal that is below here is 9K below is already a big margin.
 

I also remind you that necro belongs in scourge with barrier and a little dispell but otherwise brings nothing in dps to his group, he nerfed it on the contrary with his combo zones.
1 scourge in 1 group does not bring much, on the other hand 6 scourges in a group which plays well brings much, it is the stacking the problem not 1 scourge alone.
As it was said, in condi we inflict conditions to send them back and very often they are clean which lowers again our dps.

moreover the scourge is not a class has projectiles what it makes that it up not are dps with the zone of combo poison confusion or burn as of other class DPS condi which rises still higher whereas which are already has more than 40K.
 

And once again we are at 36K, some thieves are at 45K at golem now! that's 9K below!
Before 11 May Maj, I regularly saw FB at 50, 60, 80K in factal CM, we were at 29K
And it still has no counterparts related to specialization by the way.

After in fractal CM 68k dps

To solve the problem of shield accumulation with multiple scourge.
We should just limit  shield stacking to one number every 5 seconds.
This would solve the support of multiple scourge in pve and WvW.
Protection was only stacked 5 times before the May 11 patch.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ragi.7291

[Axl.8924]

There shouldn't be such huge differences in DPS and perhaps some classes should be nerfed down in my opinion.

Its not healthy for the game for such huge margins of dps parity.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Nimon.7840]

Even though I like seeing necro DPS be on par with other professions, it's always op, to have support and this amount of damage.

 

For example condi ele. Has a pretty complex rotation and almost zero build in support. So it's ok to do 40k DPS.

But things like scourge, firebrand, the new mirage, Renegade (pre patch warrior as well, I didn't see any benchmarks yet) Those classes do way to much damage for the amount of support they offer.

 

That being said, reaper still needs some further help DPS wise.

 

Yes it has much more health than other classes, but taking damage while having the second health bar active will significantly decrease the damage output.

 

All that aside - I hope we will get a really good espec with end of dragons, that gives necro a competitive dmg spec to compete with the best dmg specs in the game. That would need necro to loose the second health bar, as well as not being able to give barrier to other players.

This would also require necro to get weapon skills and other abilities to increase survivability for pvp modes, else the spec wouldn't be better than a punching bag, or it would need so much damage, to be able to kill enemies while having only 19k HP.

 

 

[Ragi.7291]

36Kdps VS 45K dps
don't you think that's a lot? On a duration of 2 minutes it makes a difference of 1080 000 dommages between a scourge and a thief on a golem.

On the 100CM : a good scourge is 45K and a good thief is 65K over 1 minute that's just 1200 000 dommages difference, on 2minute it's 2400 000 dommages. LuL
When you see small differences in numbers per second and when you take them to a whole fight you see that the scourge is always far behind.


The same way you say I don't bring anything in weaver.
It's not true, fire combo field are a dps contribution for other projectile classes (soulbeast, renegat, thief ...) + free power combo.
Maybe you don't see it but other classes can't bring that or take advantage of it.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ragi.7291

[HappyHubris.1096]

What stats would you use for a Scourge in T3/T4 fractals?  Viper?  Plague Doctor?

[Anchoku.8142]

3 hours ago, HappyHubris.1096 said:

What stats would you use for a Scourge in T3/T4 fractals?  Viper?  Plague Doctor?

I've found that concentration did not help Necro very much in the past. Interested in how the duration caps are affecting boon up-time.

 

In fractals, what equipment you need depends on how your group is doing and whether you plan to bring a power or condition damage build. I like to carry at least two sets.

 

If I am going as barrier support, I tend to use Shaman's but that is just me. The stat value for 3-stat minors is not that much below a 4-stat major and the mountain of health is useful for barrier spam because barrier LF cost is fixed.

 

If I do not need to be so supportive, Viper's is always there, though I may try other types again since the patch. With Viper's, I can still offer second-string support, if needed, simply by slotting Blood Magic and dropping Spite.

[Pooh.6897]

I genuinely don't understand why everyone starts screaming that Necro is OP now. The damage numbers that condi scourge can put out now are the same as we see on other classes. Necro has very often been at the bottom of the barrel with these kinds of benchmarks with power reaper being the highest dps necro could get, i'm actually quite happy that I finally get to play a class that doesnt make me feel guilty of throwing away a valuable spot in a raid group. it's not like we're suddenly like the new mirage, being able to clock 53k AND give a ton of boons as well (or so I heard)

[Nimon.7840]

21 hours ago, jiggle puff.9347 said:

I genuinely don't understand why everyone starts screaming that Necro is OP now. The damage numbers that condi scourge can put out now are the same as we see on other classes. Necro has very often been at the bottom of the barrel with these kinds of benchmarks with power reaper being the highest dps necro could get, i'm actually quite happy that I finally get to play a class that doesnt make me feel guilty of throwing away a valuable spot in a raid group. it's not like we're suddenly like the new mirage, being able to clock 53k AND give a ton of boons as well (or so I heard)

Yes I agree, that it's nice to have that amount of DPS - in a static.

 

For pugs it's problematic.

 

You might ask, why that's the case.

 

You won't notice the survivability a scourge brings to a raid, in a good static (good meaning: you don't play double heal on every boss).

The thing you did notice before the patch: the DPS was always below other classes. No matter how good you played your build.

Now that's different. Just last Wednesday I was top DPS on some bosses with my scourge.

Before the patch I was at best fourth.

Yes, most of the others didn't play new builds and I did.

 

It's really nice to not feel like, you are the one, that drags the group down (not getting faster kill times)

 

For pugs the build is problematic, especially if you stack it.

You will have a much higher average might uptime and the group will have a lot more survivability.

And there's still the possibility to epi bounce on some bosses to increase the DPS for each other scourge.

 

[vanguard.8397]

please tell me its not like when bandit was op in wvw because that crap was annoying as hell have yet to use the subclass would like to see how it functions properly when i get the chance.

[pcgamefreak.5208]

LOL!!!!!  Nothing is OP about a condi Necro.  Worst DPS class of them all!  The problem is all the "pullet proofing" other classes do.  I so sick of players running around immune to all damage for 60 seconds...  Or "blockblockblockblok" "evadeevadeevadeevade"

 

Hell, they evade even while just running now, no actual dodge evade needed.

 

PvP/WvW is lame and the "Devs" made it that way.  You don't even have good old toe to toe, face to face combat now because you'll lose to every class or cheating player that "bullet proofs" against all your attacks while somehow dropping 10K+ damage a pop.  You can only stack so much power so how the heck are they doing so much damage per hit.....

 

Garbage!

 

[Esorono.1039]

21 minutes ago, Horace.3184 said:

LOL!!!!!  Nothing is OP about a condi Necro.  Worst DPS class of them all!  The problem is all the "pullet proofing" other classes do.  I so sick of players running around immune to all damage for 60 seconds...  Or "blockblockblockblok" "evadeevadeevadeevade"

 

Hell, they evade even while just running now, no actual dodge evade needed.

 

PvP/WvW is lame and the "Devs" made it that way.  You don't even have good old toe to toe, face to face combat now because you'll lose to every class or cheating player that "bullet proofs" against all your attacks while somehow dropping 10K+ damage a pop.  You can only stack so much power so how the heck are they doing so much damage per hit.....

 

Garbage!

 

This was also back in May, Scourge has been updated since then. Also they were talking about the PvE potential, with barrier, decent condi dps, and epidemic, scourge is a really solid condi choice for groups. While yes, Scourge is not as powerful in PvP, necro still is quite meta in PvP with several rather solid builds. It has the bulk to outlive a lot even in glassy gear until it is focus fired thanks to its shroud mechanics. Its only real major weakness is that it doesn't have too much access to active defenses, but that is mostly fine as the amount of effective hp it has is enormous, but it also means focusing the necromancer is a valid tactic for taking one down quickly. 

Also this be the necromancer forums, but raising a several month old thread is not very hunky dory. 

[Mell.4873]

On 5/16/2021 at 7:23 PM, jiggle puff.9347 said:

I genuinely don't understand why everyone starts screaming that Necro is OP now. The damage numbers that condi scourge can put out now are the same as we see on other classes. Necro has very often been at the bottom of the barrel with these kinds of benchmarks with power reaper being the highest dps necro could get, i'm actually quite happy that I finally get to play a class that doesnt make me feel guilty of throwing away a valuable spot in a raid group. it's not like we're suddenly like the new mirage, being able to clock 53k AND give a ton of boons as well (or so I heard)

Its super high end content, I will say Necro being the second most played class does really in100cm