What happened? back after 7 years and this isn't the same game.

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

That is an type of cynicism victim blaming. Every time you question the person skill or there over all person in any way your going after that person NOT the subject.

 

 

 

That's neither "cynism" nor "victim blaming" (oof). Just you playing a victim when you're not being  one. You're welcome to answer to my previous posts instead of doing... this, over and over again.

 

 

Quote

They are talking about ele it sounds like or at least the skills for ele so yes there very much is a reason to point out that ele has been hit hard over the last 7 years.

 

Ele has been "hit" as much as other classes, so again: no, ele doesn't have a special treatment despite you trying to pretend that in every other thread.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

That's neither "cynism" nor "victim blaming". Just playing a victim when you're not being  one. You're welcome to answer to my previous posts instead of doing... this, over and over again.

 

This is just that has nothing to do with any thing about game balancing.

 

"Sorry, but the start of your post is pretty loaded already for my taste."

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

 

This is just that has nothing to do with any thing about game balancing.

 

"Sorry, but the start of your post is pretty loaded already for my taste."

But it had everything to do with his post, which was what I was responding to. Not only that, but it's not like I ended on that single sentence without explaining what I mean. And yet, here you are, avoiding all of it for the sake of pivoting directly into "disagreeing = rude!!1" and "[MY CLASS] oppressed!"

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jski.6180]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But it had everything to do with his post, which was what I was responding to. Not only that, but it's not like I ended on that without explaining what I mean. And yet, here you are, avoiding all of it, lmao.

His post yes by going after that person not there view.

 

Edited for your edited:

You do this in nearly every one of your post it seems if you go wildly off subject to have this pointed out to you then your not making good point about the issues your making points about the player.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Sobx.1758]

57 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

His post yes by going after that person not there view.

 

Edited for your edited:

You do this in nearly every one of your post it seems if you go wildly off subject to have this pointed out to you then your not making good point about the issues your making points about the player.

...nope, but as I said multiple times already, feel free to actually comment on my posts instead of pretending all I wrote is that one sentence and then avoiding everything I wrote. Start from the very first post, thanks.

 

Also it's rather simple: stop pretending ele is somehow oppressed while trying to bend any other thread into that direction with your repeated false claims and then I won't need to keep repeating how consistently false what you say is.

(don't forget to re-read your post and see what you've just did btw 😁)

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jski.6180]

48 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

...nope, but as I said multiple times already, feel free to actually comment on my posts instead of pretending all I wrote is that one sentence and then avoiding everything I wrote. Start from the very first post, thanks.

 

Also it's rather simple: stop pretending ele is somehow oppressed while trying to bend any other thread into that direction with your repeated false claims and then I won't need to keep repeating how consistently false what you say is.

(don't forget to re-read your post and see what you've just did btw 😁)

 

 

If you do not understand just how many times ele has been nerfed at this point and looked over for a real buff your fooling your self and trying to convince your self more then other ppl. Its just as bad as if you think you have a point to go after the person who making a point and not the subject it self.

[Sobx.1758]

26 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

If you do not understand just how many times ele has been nerfed at this point and looked over for a real buff your fooling your self and trying to convince your self more then other ppl. Its just as bad as if you think you have a point to go after the person who making a point and not the subject it self.

Pretty much as much as any other class, I guess you're a perfect example of the player that plays only/mainly one class, so they only read patch notes relevant to their class and then feel entitled to spreading their awfully biased and false claims for the sake of pretending they are being somehow targeted through "their class getting constantly nerfed".

So still no. And still feel free to respond to my previous posts. Aaaaany time now, I'm sure.

 

 

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Pretty much as much as any other class, I guess you're a perfect example of the player that plays only/mainly one class, so they only read patch notes relevant to their class and then feel entitled to spreading their awfully biased and false claims for the sake of pretending they are being somehow targeted through "their class getting constantly nerfed".

So still no. And still feel free to respond to my previous posts. Aaaaany time now, I'm sure.

 

 

I only enjoy one class i can play others if you must know about my person game play and wants seeing how this is always about the person your talking to and not about balancing of the game. Maybe i should give you all of my back ground and reference etc.. like applying for a job.

 

I am not the point here you are not the point here the want anet is balancing there game IS the point.

 

We just had a massive power creep of an update and it changed the game a lot for thoughts power creeped classes the same classes that where already on top of the game play use. This game looks nothing like 7 years ago and it is NOT balanced in the same way it was 7 years ago. It is well with in reason to point this out to anet and shows massive problems with anet views on balancing these forms and over all player feed back.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

I only enjoy one class i can play others if you must know about my person game play and wants seeing how this is always about the person your talking to and not about balancing of the game. Maybe i should give you all of my back ground and reference etc.. like applying for a job.

You don't need to give me any background because your posts show enough of what's actually relevant to this "issue" and the position you're holding. You can try being sarcastic as much as you want, but you know it's true -if you think ele keeps getting nerfed vastly more than other classes and is somehow targeted by anyone then you clearly don't read full patchnotes.

 

(btw just like in your previous posts in this thread, re-read your sentence again and enjoy the hypocrisy. Apparently saying anything about what you say is "personal", but you constantly repeating what I "always do" is not 🙃)

 

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

I am not the point here you are not the point here the want anet is balancing there game IS the point.

You're not the point here, but your false claims you're constantly trying to spread sure are part of the point whether you like it or not.

Aaaand still feel free to respond to my previous posts.

 

 

 

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

You don't need to give me any background because your posts show enough of what's actually relevant to this "issue" and the position you're holding. You can try being sarcastic as much as you want, but you know it's true -if you think ele keeps getting nerfed vastly more than other classes and is somehow targeted by anyone then you clearly don't read full patchnotes.

 

(btw just like in your previous posts in this thread, re-read your sentence again and enjoy the hypocrisy. Apparently saying anything about what you say is "personal", but you constantly repeating what I "always do" is not 🙃)

 

You're not the point here, but your false claims you're constantly trying to spread sure are part of the point whether you like it or not.

Aaaand still feel free to respond to my previous posts.

 

 

 

I feel like i do you been non stop talking about whom i am and what i am about i guess you know me better then i know my self.

 

What about my claims are false?  You need to point them out.

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I feel like i do you been non stop talking about whom i am and what i am about i guess you know me better then i know my self.

 

What about my claims are false?  You need to point them out.

I already did, just re-read the previous posts.

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

I already did, just re-read the previous posts.

Ok will give you a list from the wiki:

-May 2021: Ele was nerfed by giving scraper quinkess dropping weaver dmg by 5% not updating burning enofe to compete with torment vs pve. Not giving ele the new boon on any thing even though at one point it had such a boon. (there more but i have a lot to post here)

-April 2021: Ele spvp did get a buff but it now pushed the class at odds with wvw and pve causing more hartack then helping balanced.

-March 2021: Throw mine was put on a longer cd making boons over all stronger in the game making the ele class less able to root and chill or able to keep there targets in big aoe or melee ranged to do high end dmg.

-February 2021: Stone resonance nerf in spvp making weaver more glasses then it was before.

-January 2021: Not realty a class update though it did make consumable easier to get so old hard to get items become easier to use making ele less able to get downs on some level with dmg builds.

-December 2020: Spvp over time nerfs hitting ele rez and barrier making classes with higher hp / def stronger during it.

Lost of 10 target shouts in spvp / wvw with out a real power effect for them only being 5 targets (this one was massive).

-October 2020: Tornado in spvp was giving a longer cd from 90 sec to 120 sec.

-September 2020: Not real a class update more of a bug update no effect on ele.

-Augusta 2020: No real update for classes bug fix.

-July 2020: Speed of Synergy was "fixed" to a bigger aoe already making eng super speed stronger the it already was.

Lost of combo field add on for runes and ele traits (over all other classes as well) but ele being the field class losing a lot more then most.

Pyromancer's Puissance nerf no longer useful for core ele and even weaver as an effect might generation tool (still is ok on tempest).

More nerfs to burning and dmg effects over all with a few drops in cd for a class that cant sit in an atument too long and wait for cd to come off messing up rotations.

Over all massive buffs to other classes in effects and tools with no real fixes for over-preforming ability and effects excising in the game at the time "no pop nerf no point in updates."

-June 2020: No real class updates.

-May 2020: Anet forgot about ele comply.

-April 2020: Tornado nerf cd from 60 to 90 sec in spvp as well as Lightning Rod dmg nerf in spvp and wvw.

-March 2020:  Obsidian Flesh nerfs.

-February 2020: More burning nerfs more def nerfs and anet trying to add pets viability to the already throwaway pets of ele.

At the same time there was a lot more buff added to other classes skills and effect out right reworks (both buffs and some nerfs) but no real reworks for the ele class.

-January 2020: Anet forgot about ele agen no updates for the class or compeating skills.

 

That just 1 years 5 months of updates the list can go on. Anet gose from not realizing the ele class is in the game to nerfing it hard to just comply going in a way no one wants for the class. Anet hates ele and it show for the last 7 years.

 

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Ok will give you a list from the wiki:

-May 2021: Ele was nerfed by giving scraper quinkess dropping weaver dmg by 5% not updating burning enofe to compete with torment vs pve. Not giving ele the new boon on any thing even though at one point it had such a boon. (there more but i have a lot to post here)

-April 2021: Ele spvp did get a buff but it now pushed the class at odds with wvw and pve causing more hartack then helping balanced.

-March 2021: Throw mine was put on a longer cd making boons over all stronger in the game making the ele class less able to root and chill or able to keep there targets in big aoe or melee ranged to do high end dmg.

-February 2021: Stone resonance nerf in spvp making weaver more glasses then it was before.

-January 2021: Not realty a class update though it did make consumable easier to get so old hard to get items become easier to use making ele less able to get downs on some level with dmg builds.

-December 2020: Spvp over time nerfs hitting ele rez and barrier making classes with higher hp / def stronger during it.

Lost of 10 target shouts in spvp / wvw with out a real power effect for them only being 5 targets (this one was massive).

-October 2020: Tornado in spvp was giving a longer cd from 90 sec to 120 sec.

-September 2020: Not real a class update more of a bug update no effect on ele.

-Augusta 2020: No real update for classes bug fix.

-July 2020: Speed of Synergy was "fixed" to a bigger aoe already making eng super speed stronger the it already was.

Lost of combo field add on for runes and ele traits (over all other classes as well) but ele being the field class losing a lot more then most.

Pyromancer's Puissance nerf no longer useful for core ele and even weaver as an effect might generation tool (still is ok on tempest).

More nerfs to burning and dmg effects over all with a few drops in cd for a class that cant sit in an atument too long and wait for cd to come off messing up rotations.

Over all massive buffs to other classes in effects and tools with no real fixes for over-preforming ability and effects excising in the game at the time "no pop nerf no point in updates."

-June 2020: No real class updates.

-May 2020: Anet forgot about ele comply.

-April 2020: Tornado nerf cd from 60 to 90 sec in spvp as well as Lightning Rod dmg nerf in spvp and wvw.

-March 2020:  Obsidian Flesh nerfs.

-February 2020: More burning nerfs more def nerfs and anet trying to add pets viability to the already throwaway pets of ele.

At the same time there was a lot more buff added to other classes skills and effect out right reworks (both buffs and some nerfs) but no real reworks for the ele class.

-January 2020: Anet forgot about ele agen no updates for the class or compeating skills.

 

That just 1 years 5 months of updates the list can go on. Anet gose from not realizing the ele class is in the game to nerfing it hard to just comply going in a way no one wants for the class. Anet hates ele and it show for the last 7 years.

 

 

Did you even read what I wrote? Because that surely isn't responding to anything I said.

Now make a list for every other class as well. you're only confirming what I said about you sticking to one class and reading patch notes of that one class, lmao.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jski.6180]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

Did you even read what I wrote?

Now make a list for every other class as well. you're only confirming what I said about you sticking to one class and reading patch notes of that one class, lmao.

I did and i know what i am talking about i need you to make the counter argument i should not be made to make yours. Make me a list for all of the other classes notes in the same time farm. My argument is that ele has been nerfed every update on some level not that every class has been buffed more every update.

 

Tell me how the game has not changed and all of the balancing is good as well.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I did and i know what i am talking about i need you to make the counter argument i should not be made to make yours. Make me a list for all of the other classes notes in the same time farm. My argument is that ele has been nerfed every update on some level not that every class has been buffed more every update.

 

That's hilarious. Read the patchnotes of other classes. I constantly do that as they come and anyone that reads full patchnotes instead of limiting themselves to just one class -like you clearly do- knows your claims about "ele being somehow targeted or hated" are as false as they are in regards to any other class on their respective profession subforum. 

And I never needed you to make any list for me. You need that list for yourself. Actually you don't need a list, you just need to finally read the patch notes for other classes, because until now that's clearly not something you were consistently doing (or, most probably probably, at all).

 

Quote

Tell me how the game has not changed and all of the balancing is good as well.

When did I ever make that claim? What are you even talking about, huh.

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

That's hilarious. Read the patchnotes of other classes. I constantly do that as they come and anyone that reads full patchnotes instead of limiting themselves to just one class -like you clearly do- knows your claims about ele being somehow targeted or hated are as false as they are in regards of any other class on their respective profession subforum. 

And I never needed you to make any list for me. You need that list for yourself. Actually you don't need a list, you just need to finally read the patch notes for other classes.

 

When did I ever make that claim?

I am willing to read though them and i did read all of them as they all effect ele being a gen. class that should be doing every thing (yet dose not) you have to keep up on what every other class is pulling off. Non of that was false in-fact your uses of false is more of an means of name calling at this point. You need to point out what is false or your just yelling it out as a saying.

 

If the game is balanced and find over these last 7 years to be ok that the game is good vs what it was back then then your views are that.

[Me Kill You.9035]

Hey OP, maybe try playing a few more days and see how things are going?  Then make another post on it.

 

Or don't.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Senjun.8149

You played too short to fully understand what has really happened in all those 7 years.

It's not that Anet intentionally reduced class diversity and made "unorthodox" builds so bad they cannot compete with strict meta ones. It was just that the knowledge and understanding of the builds and meta was in very early stages when you played. The difference between the bad, average and good builds was not so apparent yet, because almost noone was using the truly, fully optimized ones.

So, basically, the differences were as big then as they are now, but not many people were aware of it yet. Well, after 8 years people are aware of those differences now, and that's why they are no longer willing to use the bad builds many players were running before. And i'm quite sure, that the build you were using then seemed better then not because it was better, but simply because everyone else you played agains was also running equally bad builds. You just never noticed that, because you had no way to compare.

 

In short: your build almost certainly has always been bad, and never really could compare to what could be squeezed out of the build system even then. And nothing has changed since then. The only difference is that some other good builds are at the top.

 

The diversity you liked so much, in truth, never existed in this game.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[slave to the grind.5028]

Actually, seven years ago they had an entirely different skill/trait system, so even two otherwise identical builds could differ in their stats. It's been a long, long time, but I remember a friend and I basically running clones that only differed in that allegeldy small manner and we noticed significant differences in efficiency. I'm willing to bet OP was running the optimal stats for his build and equipment.

Most people back then weren't.

[HappyHubris.1096]

It's also possible that people were just less experienced and proficient in the game's first year, allowing for a ton of diversity among the mediocrity.  Over time more challenges were put in the game and people started discovering the absolute strongest builds.

Also, elite specs sort of narrowed the population of "strong" permutations to a particular vision.

[Senjun.8149]

I've given myself some more time to try and feel it out while also talking to more people who i use to know 7 years ago. It seems that not one person minus necromancer mains for some reason (they've been consistently happy) are happy with the changes.

 

I'm also insanely unimpressed still with how versatile professions are these days. I'm seeing the same exact builds over and over and for whatever reason an insane lack of engineers and ele in pvp. Seems like everyone is a guardian,necro or a mesmer. But then, mesmer has always been insanely popular.

 

It may be feeling like this game just isn't for me anymore, maybe it was the new game feel but I'm telling you all from memories of how it was then, there was so much viability in effective pvp builds, I don't know if its just an elementalist thing, but my traits and abilities have been nerfed or changed in extreme ways, and these ways encourage me to follow a cookie cutter route and be like everyone else or suffer being less effective, not mildly but extremely.  

[Senjun.8149]

On 5/16/2021 at 5:35 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

@Senjun.8149

You played too short to fully understand what has really happened in all those 7 years.

It's not that Anet intentionally reduced class diversity and made "unorthodox" builds so bad they cannot compete with strict meta ones. It was just that the knowledge and understanding of the builds and meta was in very early stages when you played. The difference between the bad, average and good builds was not so apparent yet, because almost noone was using the truly, fully optimized ones.

So, basically, the differences were as big then as they are now, but not many people were aware of it yet. Well, after 8 years people are aware of those differences now, and that's why they are no longer willing to use the bad builds many players were running before. And i'm quite sure, that the build you were using then seemed better then not because it was better, but simply because everyone else you played agains was also running equally bad builds. You just never noticed that, because you had no way to compare.

 

In short: your build almost certainly has always been bad, and never really could compare to what could be squeezed out of the build system even then. And nothing has changed since then. The only difference is that some other good builds are at the top.

 

The diversity you liked so much, in truth, never existed in this game.

In my comment above I kind of explain why this isn't the case entirely.

 

If my abilities and traits werent nerfed or changed in such a manner, I'd still be viable to be a condition scepter build. Also I'd still be viable for a condition resistant bunker/mid damage build but the survivability traits and abilities changed encourage me to not take that route. Instead it's like kind of forcing me to fit a more support role and not a very effective one at that, unless I go with the current meta. Think it was weaver or tempest? I still havent looked into it because I like build diversity but i keep hearing about them.

 

I can't speak for other professions but I do hear similar stories and issues with the changes over the years.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Senjun.8149

[Drakz.7051]

ANet just seem to be bad at balancing and it only gets worse when you throw elite specs into the mix since they seem to be superior.

Sadly the only way I've found to do consistently well is by  going along with a meta at least in pvp, wvw and fractals etc since in group content you'll be expected to run specific builds.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

  

On 5/15/2021 at 8:29 PM, Me Kill You.9035 said:

Hey OP, maybe try playing a few more days and see how things are going?  Then make another post on it.

 

Or don't.

This, OP. You have seven years of content & changes to catch up on - any MMO (or any Games As A Service really) is going to be vastly different in 7 years. The nature of MMOs/GaaS is to be a constantly evolving beast.

 

You'll need to forget your previous expectations and play a bit longer to get re-acquainted with the game. Come in with a fresh perspective, instead of nostalgia tainted memories from something that you experienced 7 years ago.

 

As for build diversity, I'd say it is more or less the same (maybe even higher in some respects). However, you can't possibly know that in such a short amount of time you've been playing since you got back. You'll just have to suck up that gut feeling and learn all the builds from scratch again - no two ways around that, as I mentioned before it would be the same with any other MMO given the number of changes they can go through so quickly.

 

If you were 1v3ing people with wack builds, that means you were a decent player (relative to the people you were playing with). That won't come back immediately either. There are a whole lot of people and you'll have to figure out how the game works until you can be on a relatively higher skill level than them (again).

 

So yeah. . .you'll have to re-learn the game. Of course if you come back expecting to see a static picture of 2012, you'll be disappointed. You shouldn't be surprised by that. Re-learn first, then talk about your experience after you've mastered the game (again).

Edited May 18, 2021 by Aplethoraof.2643

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Senjun.8149 said:

In my comment above I kind of explain why this isn't the case entirely.

 

If my abilities and traits werent nerfed or changed in such a manner, I'd still be viable to be a condition scepter build. Also I'd still be viable for a condition resistant bunker/mid damage build but the survivability traits and abilities changed encourage me to not take that route. Instead it's like kind of forcing me to fit a more support role and not a very effective one at that, unless I go with the current meta. Think it was weaver or tempest? I still havent looked into it because I like build diversity but i keep hearing about them.

 

I can't speak for other professions but I do hear similar stories and issues with the changes over the years.

Again, while indeed some options have been restricted while others were enhanced, the overall build diversity has not changed. While some builds replaced some others, the gap between top builds and the "average" ones from the very beginning was as high as it is now. You simply did not realize you were running a mediocre build originally because everyone else has also been doing that. You simply didn't have much chance of even seeing the good ones (which existed even in then, and have also been offering equally massive increses in effectiveness), because they were still rare. It took a while for that knowledge to disseminate within the community - it's just that by the time it happened, you weren;t playing anymore, so you attribute all of this to balance changes, and not just to people getting to know the game/build mechanics better.

 

It's like you decided to play a game of soccer with your friends, and are now shocked that they all are so much better than you. Withoyt taking in consideration, that when you played together last, you were all kids and those were amateur games, but now you;re all grown up, and some of your friends are actually in professional soccer clubs now. It's not like the game has changed. It's the people that have got better at it.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Astralporing.1957