I'm a pure elementalist and came back after 7 years only to see...

[vilkanor.3072]

10 hours ago, TheDarkness.6947 said:

 

I agree, complexity of play (clicks per minute or what have you)  shouldn’t be rewarded from a class balance perspective. 

let's say you have Team A and Team B of whatever sport you may fancy:

Team A: professionals, million dollars invested in training and equipment, elite coaches, etc

Team B: amateurs sorted randomly, that don't even play that particular sport

one would assume that, over a span of -say- 100 matches, Team A would win consistently, would not?

That's because, knowledge, preparation, equipment, training, experience, talent, skill, etc, are supposed to count, no?

However, Team B wins the league. How's that possible?
 

See, the whole point of increasing complexity in the mechanics is precisely to reward skilled players with better performance distributed across a consistent number of encounters (I am specifically talking about WvW or at least PvP). Ele is a disaster: squishy, long CD, excruciatingly long and overly-complicated boon staking process, no viable self sustenance, can't pressure, can't resist pressure, low mobility (folks, who remembers the ORIGINAL dagger 4 skill?) and, worse than anything, low damage output.

 

On my thief, I can reach 18k damage with autoattack and have 7 evasions ready to troll-escape any sticky situation, on my Ele I have to play piano to get 8k.. and still die in one hit.

[TheDarkness.6947]

48 minutes ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

See, the whole point of increasing complexity in the mechanics is precisely to reward skilled players with better performance distributed across a consistent number of encounters (I am specifically talking about WvW or at least PvP). Ele is a disaster: squishy, long CD, excruciatingly long and overly-complicated boon staking process, no viable self sustenance, can't pressure, can't resist pressure, low mobility (folks, who remembers the ORIGINAL dagger 4 skill?) and, worse than anything, low damage output.

 

 

Conceptually I agree with you.  I just don’t think it should be profession specific.  Instead I think all classes should have enough depth and nuance that someone who has invested the time to master it should be able to shine with it.  Profession choice should be more about aesthetic and play style than performance ceiling.

 

I also agree that ele seems to be in a pretty rubbish state right now. I couldn’t find a compelling reason to keep playing it.  In a nutshell it just seemed like I had to work 3x as hard to get worse results than other professions.  I’m fairly new to GW, and the grass is always greener and all.  But so far my experience with other professions substantiates this theory that ele has just been eroded to a “why bother” class over the years by nerfs to it and buffs to others.

Edited May 20, 2021 by TheDarkness.6947

[vilkanor.3072]

2 hours ago, TheDarkness.6947 said:

I just don’t think it should be profession specific.

I have a neutral stance on this, as it is not really on topic and mostly depends on personal preferences. It probably depends on game-developing issues, it would be chaotic to allow so many variables for all professions/classes, so I guess it's a standard practice to just "separate and specialize", think the old Street Fighter series: casuals would go for Ryu/Ken because they were easy to play yet effective, but people who mastered -say- Cammy were godlike at the cost of painful and long learning curve. In GW2, people who wants an easy time can hop on Warrior/Guardian and have immediate gratification, and expect to hop on Elementalist preparing for a long journey toward mastery only to be rewarded with defeat and derision.

[Puck.3697]

5 hours ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

Ele is a disaster: squishy, long CD, excruciatingly long and overly-complicated boon staking process, no viable self sustenance, can't pressure, can't resist pressure, low mobility (folks, who remembers the ORIGINAL dagger 4 skill?) and, worse than anything, low damage output.

 

On my thief, I can reach 18k damage with autoattack and have 7 evasions ready to troll-escape any sticky situation, on my Ele I have to play piano to get 8k.. and still die in one hit.

 

but then u put weaver on and your doing WAAY higher DPS...

 

yes, core ele is bad, but Weaver is very strong.

[vilkanor.3072]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Weaver is very strong.

it is a viable class for PvE undeniably, but in WvW it has the same downsides as core ele (no, maybe even more, due to the increase in 'pianist-syndrome' for no real practical advantage)

[Puck.3697]

8 minutes ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

it is a viable class for PvE undeniably, but in WvW it has the same downsides as core ele (no, maybe even more, due to the increase in 'pianist-syndrome' for no real practical advantage)

 

its more then viable.. it was a Leading DPS all the way up to this patch breaking condi damage. and still sitting at the top at like 45k with condi. and a meta fractal DPS.

 

but if we go mode to mode, ur gonna find something most classes are useless at.

 

Since the nerfs. SB is almost irrelevant and since druid nerfs in SPVP ranger doesnt rly have a place anymore.. pre this patch necromancers were considered garbage in most PvE Content also.

 

its what happens when u try balance the same Class to work in 3 completely different enviroments.

 

im just hoping to see another patch soon, because atm things are truely messed up lol.

 

correction. they could have fixed it with elite speccs.. the reason Core ele and its elites suffer the same problems is because the elites are so alike and just upgrades to the prior kit, if they actually made Ele elites very different, they coulda been onto something.

 

Core - 5 Attunements - air / Earth / water / Fire / Arcane

Weaver - 3 Attunements - Fire / arcane / Air

Tempest - 4 attunements - Water / Earth / Arcane / Chloro (healing via photosythesis)

 

then u could have balanced the attunements so they they wouldnt overlap like they do, but i'd imagine people will kick up about "Simplifying the class"

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[vilkanor.3072]

15 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

its more then viable.. it was a Leading DPS all the way up to this patch breaking condi damage. and still sitting at the top at like 45k with condi. and a meta fractal DPS.

judging viability by dps: "we don't do that here".

As I mentioned, it is undeniable that Ele can perform well in PvE, and it can be carried in WvW as well (if in a zerg): all the problems of the class, though, emerge once you try dueling other classes (pick any, the result won't change). When I started playing this game (day 1 of release), all classes were a bit unbalanced, and Ele was no exception: at some point, after few patches, a balance was reached. Yet,  for no rational reason, Anet kept nerfing and nerfing Ele until the sorry state of today was achieved.

If all other classes can have self sustain AND dps, why Ele can't?

[Puck.3697]

48 minutes ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

judging viability by dps: "we don't do that here".

As I mentioned, it is undeniable that Ele can perform well in PvE, and it can be carried in WvW as well (if in a zerg): all the problems of the class, though, emerge once you try dueling other classes (pick any, the result won't change). When I started playing this game (day 1 of release), all classes were a bit unbalanced, and Ele was no exception: at some point, after few patches, a balance was reached. Yet,  for no rational reason, Anet kept nerfing and nerfing Ele until the sorry state of today was achieved.

If all other classes can have self sustain AND dps, why Ele can't?

Fire weaver is litterally a duelling class and is in the SPVP meta? Lol what do you mean?. I play weaver and can win a 1v1. 

 

I use fire weaver for 2v2s because I can 1v2 and win with it lol

 

Ele has tons of self healing. It has about 8 short CD evades with several interupts and knock-downs. With a strong burn burst ability through combos. 

 

I'm sorry but it's not weak in 1v1 not in the slightest. 

 

Your litterally calling a meta duelist bad at 1v1ing. Weavers problems come from the fact it has little impact on larger teamfights... Not it's 1v1 capability.

 

I'm sorry but it's just untrue. Weavers strong in a 1v1 and can sustain a 1v2 for a good amount of time.. it becomes less relevant when it's a teamfight.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[vilkanor.3072]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

SPVP meta

again, I'm talking about WvW

[Puck.3697]

12 minutes ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

again, I'm talking about WvW

 

WvWvW duelling is dogs**** and a meme at this point not balanced in the slightest and covered in soulbeasts and thief's. 

 

Like this is the case for most classes. It's a game mode built on balancing large teamfights. I wonder why problems occur when people try to 1v1. 

 

Every class sucks in atleast one enviroment most of the time. 

 

Rangers do good in WvWvW but irrelevant in SPVP and just been hard nerfed too far in PvE. 

 

Necros for a large amount of time were considered trolling in PvE. 

 

Elementalist isn't a power house in one enviroment and your calling it bad. The class is meta in both SPVP and PvE. It's not even bad in the enviroment because duelling isn't even that modes enviroment. 

 

It's fine at the actual objective of WvWvW it's just WvWvW is balanced and created to be played differently then the playerbase interacts with it 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

WvWvW duelling is dogs**** and a meme at this point not balanced in the slightest and covered in soulbeasts and thief's. 

 

Like this is the case for most classes. It's a game mode built on balancing large teamfights. I wonder why problems occur when people try to 1v1. 

 

Every class sucks in atleast one enviroment most of the time. 

 

Rangers do good in WvWvW but irrelevant in SPVP and just been hard nerfed too far in PvE. 

 

Necros for a large amount of time were considered trolling in PvE. 

 

Elementalist isn't a power house in one enviroment and your calling it bad. The class is meta in both SPVP and PvE. It's not even bad in the enviroment because duelling isn't even that modes enviroment. 

 

It's fine at the actual objective of WvWvW it's just WvWvW is balanced and created to be played differently then the playerbase interacts with it 

 

Fire weaver isn't even terrible as a roamer (although I acknowledge that it isn't great either).  It still packs enough punch to threaten many builds (especially popular roamers like power soulbeast) and relatively few builds can actually kill it 1v1.  Mobility is its Achilles heel in WvW, which isn't as much of an issue for it in PvP.  

 

 

 

[Zeesh.7286]

The retal removal has benefited no other class as well as staff weaver in WvW.  It's almost meta for open field now. Clouding against boonblobs is finally effective since you no longer die to passive damage and the blob has to travel/focus to kill you instead of just sitting tight on the lord and watching you kill yourself while they just kill the lord. I'm consistently top damage. Only outdone by other weavers.

 

GvGs is a different ballgame but I've seen fresh Air tempest being taken in for GvGs too because of the utility it brings with shocking aura and signet rez.

 

Roaming is just atrocious on ele but that's because thiefs and rangers are just overturned for open world roaming.

 

I think we've had way too many complain threads recently. We also need to focus on the "what's working" right now so the ones demotivated can try new stuff and maybe have a little fun. I've never enjoyed staff weaver as much as I've done so since the may patch even after the stupid nerf to power damage on elements of rage.

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

Fire weaver isn't even terrible as a roamer (although I acknowledge that it isn't great either).  It still packs enough punch to threaten many builds (especially popular roamers like power soulbeast) and relatively few builds can actually kill it 1v1.  Mobility is its Achilles heel in WvW, which isn't as much of an issue for it in PvP.  

 

 

 

 

Aye I think eles elites atleast are fine core ele defiantly has problems. 

 

Just annoys me to read so many spread misinformation about the class calling it "bad" and a "dead class" where I question if they can actually play the specc. 

 

Elementalist is quite complex and requires fast reaction. As alot of its mitigation is very reactive and is through its abilities. Not natural defenses or hp. 

 

I question if they can really play it. If they think weaver is trash or "unviable"...  Good eles are scarey. The issue is with elementalist you feel like you "work alot harder" to be as good as others kind of. 

 

But it's a mmorpg Ur never gonna be above other classes based on ski curve and you definitely shouldn't be easy and difficult options are vital to exist in a mmorpg. You pick which u find more fun and suddenly it's not "hard work". It's dedication to being good at something you love. 

 

 

[Loke.1429]

On 5/17/2021 at 12:26 AM, Loke.1429 said:

As an example: as a weaver my meteor CRITICALLY hit a guy in wvw for 2323 today, and I'm in full ascended infused berserker armor, all runes and sigils optimal for dps. Best food and oil. Elementalist is NOT in a good place. WvW is now a boon uptime, tank+condi+stealth fest. Why does the devs continue to nerf us elementalists and staff especially? Or just not change anything and buff so many others. That PVE balance tho, that perfect complex standstill rotation large target dps tho... I'm very disappointed. 
Any comments ? Do you have a class you recommend me to change to @Fire Attunement.9835?
You really broke the trade-off between difficulty and pay-off a long time ago. Now a difficult class is worse than the easy ones. Same or less dps (on standstill target only), less tanky, less mobility, no stealth, long cast time cc, ground targeted, with SLOW projectiles that you gotta be blind to avoid. How about I sidestep some of those fireballs? Oh, you wanted to teleport onto some steps? Sorry your summon is too slow and stupid to run after me or even hit me while I hit you? the sarcasm could continue for ages here but I doubt they listen so

To continue my story, today I was critically hit from stealth for 14777 by a theif's Vault skill. I died of course, since my HP is a whopping 12995. Well, to be fair, it is 14045 because of bloodlust buff, vitality on my food and possibly some scaling from food/oil + masters fortitude trait.

Feels really bad to get instagibbed by one player with one skill from stealth.

Note that to do anything even similar I need to precast Plasma Blast (slow as f moving projectile, really easy to avoid) like 3-4seconds of projectile movement while i cast metor standing still (+3,75s), which will land its first after 2-5seconds after first seconds of the cast, and then at that movement blast them with an arcane or other weak but fast skill. They have to literally be standing still for 5-8 seconds with no defences for me to pull this off, other than my great success 1 in 200 times if I try really hard. Most people know to move away from slow projectiles and big red circles you know. @Fire Attunement.9835

Edited May 21, 2021 by Loke.1429

[MyPuppy.8970]

I came back after another half a year hiatus, maybe kinda excited after hearing about EoD and Cantha... I mostly play PvP tho and almost exclusively or Core ele. It's very underwhelming, but it's still lots of fun imo. I sometimes get salty comments for playing core ele but who cares 🤷‍♀️

- Y U DO NO DMG ?!?

- Exactly, please inform the devs.

[Puck.3697]

31 minutes ago, MyPuppy.8970 said:

I came back after another half a year hiatus, maybe kinda excited after hearing about EoD and Cantha... I mostly play PvP tho and almost exclusively or Core ele. It's very underwhelming, but it's still lots of fun imo. I sometimes get salty comments for playing core ele but who cares 🤷‍♀️

- Y U DO NO DMG ?!?

- Exactly, please inform the devs.

Core ele will never get better sadly. 

 

The problem ele has is basically every elite it's gotten is just a upgrade on it. 

 

Ele elites basically work on a 

 

"Omg when we designed ele we soo should have done this with it" "don't worry we can put it in the elite" 

 

The issue with adding elites alike the core is, there's 0 trade off, so u have access to all of eles kit. But with extras and 0 drawback. Which basically means the power creep is entirely verticle. 

 

And when Weavers too strong? Because u share mechanics your immediately getting nerf batted because of it 

 

Ofcourse the positive of it is that the class don't change using it's elites. So basically it's irrelevant. Plays on the same basics regardless of which specc you use.

 

 

 

[Loke.1429]

On 5/22/2021 at 9:22 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

Core ele will never get better sadly. 

 

The problem ele has is basically every elite it's gotten is just a upgrade on it. 

 

Ele elites basically work on a 

 

"Omg when we designed ele we soo should have done this with it" "don't worry we can put it in the elite" 

 

The issue with adding elites alike the core is, there's 0 trade off, so u have access to all of eles kit. But with extras and 0 drawback. Which basically means the power creep is entirely verticle. 

 

And when Weavers too strong? Because u share mechanics your immediately getting nerf batted because of it 

 

Ofcourse the positive of it is that the class don't change using it's elites. So basically it's irrelevant. Plays on the same basics regardless of which specc you use.

 

 

 

 I'm actually ok with the balance at the start of each expansion favoring the new specs for a while. They probably prefer to make it so, because it ensures more players purchase the expansion and try out the content. The problem for me is that they need to do some more/better work currently/usually improve balance between the classes.

Edit: the rest of this post is from WvW power weaver staff perspective

Right now ele needs some tuning. I think power needs a small buff, arcane utilities needs buffs. Lava font change from way back needs to be reverted. More importantly its too punishing to play elementalist as it is now because when you compare damage and survivability + mobility, ele is sightly below ok on damage, but off the charts bad on survivability + mobility compared with other classes that output same or better damage. I think the core problem lies in most traitlines not boosting survivability + mobility enough, not enough movement skills, and most importantly slow cc, less dmg hate mechanics, and skill with damage/targeting that is really hard to utilize / hit with in smaller groups where people know how to play. Avg. skill in wvw is lower now than it used to be, so maybe it's not so common anymore, but something simple like a player sidestep'ing my fireballs from staff always makes me frustrated (moving side to side repeatedly). Its my friggin auto attack, and having it not connect because of movement like that is so stupid. The same applies to the slow as f fire summons. When they are summoned, why not summon them on the target with a knockdown?

Another thing that keeps bothering me is the Weaver earth+arcane skill #3 which roots you with a long cast, and having that blocked by small bump in terrain, a tree or a miniscule rock is also a really bad experience. I wish we had less projectile based skills. I mean, come on, its magic. If you are a wizard/mage-esque class doing magic, what's the reasoning that so many skills has to start at the hand and move as a shockingly slow projectile? Either way, magic could/should move through/over some obstacle like a little rock. This is a small part of the reason for why I prefer instant skills, ground targeted (or even melee skills as a ranged player) over projectiles any day.

From a general balance point of view, they should never have introduced so many 100% damage mitigations, when you have the dodge, the vast majority of the rest needs to be partial mitigations (and very few of them stacking) in my opinion. Just look at block, as a mechanic its really stupid that it blocks one hit regardless of how powerful it is, and that this buff is easy to get / shared. Guardians have more powerful magic then elementalists? Lol... Maybe block could be changed to partial reduction + damage redirect to the person granting the buff? I hope you see this @Fire Attunement.9835 or @Cal Cohen.2358 / @Cal Cohen.3527, and that this feedback helps the game. /end rant.

Oh, while I have you here, please also check out my other recommendations in this post: 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Loke.1429

[Puck.3697]

9 hours ago, Loke.1429 said:

 I'm actually ok with the balance at the start of each expansion favoring the new specs for a while. They probably prefer to make it so, because it ensures more players purchase the expansion and try out the content. The problem for me is that they need to do some more/better work currently/usually improve balance between the classes.

Edit: the rest of this post is from WvW power weaver staff perspective

Right now ele needs some tuning. I think power needs a small buff, arcane utilities needs buffs. Lava font change from way back needs to be reverted. More importantly its too punishing to play elementalist as it is now because when you compare damage and survivability + mobility, ele is sightly below ok on damage, but off the charts bad on survivability + mobility compared with other classes that output same or better damage. I think the core problem lies in most traitlines not boosting survivability + mobility enough, not enough movement skills, and most importantly slow cc, less dmg hate mechanics, and skill with damage/targeting that is really hard to utilize / hit with in smaller groups where people know how to play. Avg. skill in wvw is lower now than it used to be, so maybe it's not so common anymore, but something simple like a player sidestep'ing my fireballs from staff always makes me frustrated (moving side to side repeatedly). Its my friggin auto attack, and having it not connect because of movement like that is so stupid. The same applies to the slow as f fire summons. When they are summoned, why not summon them on the target with a knockdown?

Another thing that keeps bothering me is the Weaver earth+arcane skill #3 which roots you with a long cast, and having that blocked by small bump in terrain, a tree or a miniscule rock is also a really bad experience. I wish we had less projectile based skills. I mean, come on, its magic. If you are a wizard/mage-esque class doing magic, what's the reasoning that so many skills has to start at the hand and move as a shockingly slow projectile? Either way, magic could/should move through/over some obstacle like a little rock. This is a small part of the reason for why I prefer instant skills, ground targeted (or even melee skills as a ranged player) over projectiles any day.

From a general balance point of view, they should never have introduced so many 100% damage mitigations, when you have the dodge, the vast majority of the rest needs to be partial mitigations (and very few of them stacking) in my opinion. Just look at block, as a mechanic its really stupid that it blocks one hit regardless of how powerful it is, and that this buff is easy to get / shared. Guardians have more powerful magic then elementalists? Lol... Maybe block could be changed to partial reduction + damage redirect to the person granting the buff? I hope you see this @Fire Attunement.9835 or @Cal Cohen.2358 / @Cal Cohen.3527, and that this feedback helps the game. /end rant.

Oh, while I have you here, please also check out my other recommendations in this post: 

 

 

Here's the problem with elites as a system entirely. 

 

Elites use all of the core traits. With additions. That's just factual. 

 

For example. 

 

Say they buffed Air and fire Traitlines for core elementalist. Uve just given weaver and tempest more damage too 

 

Elite speccs are flawed in themselves because of that. Trying to balance these speccs simultaniously just isn't a achievable goal. It's not because regardless of what you do. Something will break somewhere. And one build will outright win. 

 

For elites to fundamentally work. 

 

Each elite would have to be a fully built subclass. Which you effectively change yourself into entirely. With unique Traitlines only available to that trait line only then could you but enough walls between the speccs to balance them properly. 

 

It is a balancing nightmare really and before someone says "Ur just defending Anet" I'm not. This was a balancing nightmare they chose to create. 

 

Elites needed to be subclasses to be balanced properly... The wider u make balancing the worse it gets. 

 

Making 9 Traitlines feed into 4 different elites is basically just a headache. 

 

[Puck.3697]

On 5/20/2021 at 11:35 AM, vilkanor.3072 said:

let's say you have Team A and Team B of whatever sport you may fancy:

Team A: professionals, million dollars invested in training and equipment, elite coaches, etc

Team B: amateurs sorted randomly, that don't even play that particular sport

one would assume that, over a span of -say- 100 matches, Team A would win consistently, would not?

That's because, knowledge, preparation, equipment, training, experience, talent, skill, etc, are supposed to count, no?

However, Team B wins the league. How's that possible?
 

See, the whole point of increasing complexity in the mechanics is precisely to reward skilled players with better performance distributed across a consistent number of encounters (I am specifically talking about WvW or at least PvP). Ele is a disaster: squishy, long CD, excruciatingly long and overly-complicated boon staking process, no viable self sustenance, can't pressure, can't resist pressure, low mobility (folks, who remembers the ORIGINAL dagger 4 skill?) and, worse than anything, low damage output.

 

On my thief, I can reach 18k damage with autoattack and have 7 evasions ready to troll-escape any sticky situation, on my Ele I have to play piano to get 8k.. and still die in one hit.

 

Your comparison is flawed. Because Ur comparing it to a professional sport. 

 

Lemme give some examples here because Ur very wrong, you analogy. Your taking 2 teams of a single sport. In gw2 you aren't that's unfair. 

 

Your quotation. Only actually applies to comparing people of the same sports. And gw2 does have this. 

 

As a elementalist u compare your results to other elementalists. Not compared to the engineer in your group. 

 

What you've done is 

 

Comparison A 2 football teams compared

Comparison B a football team compared to a basket ball team. 

 

The reason your logic is wrong is because of this. Look at WoW look at FFXIV. When your looking at Ur stats Ur compared to other players of the same class as you. Not all players of every class. 

 

Your mindset disagrees with mmorpg concept and that's fine. But don't bring it into a mmorpg. This concept alienates the game to the vast majorities. 

 

And you will get elementalist made easymode. Anet will make ele easier not do more damage. They won't kill their playerbase for the sake a few individuals pride. 

 

This form of balancing will never exist. You compare players by class, not just global. No sport in the world compares all sports. 

 

Every sport seperates this way, so your points invalid. 

 

Football isnt compared to basket ball teams, you don't see volleyball players comparing their win rates with tennis players. 

 

Heck even men and women are seperated.

 

Your cross comparing. And in no sport do you cross compare. You can't say football is harder then cricket so footballers should get paid more. Which is exactly what Ur trying to press here. 

 

The logic is completely incorrect the reason why it doesn't rationalize in this way Is because Ur in the same game as the other classes where they don't share the same pitch. But the mentality but it's susposed to share sports mentalities. 

 

Hence why gaming became a esport. 

 

And no. Your again wrong. 

 

The reason some classes have more complex mechanics is for FUN. Games are for FUN. You play challenging classes because you ENJOY challenging classes. It's nothing to do with being better. It's nothing to do with the reward. It's FUN. 

 

Your susposed to choose your class in what u enjoy. Not based on difficulty, not based on skill.

 

There are lots of people who think elementalist is easy mechanically. How you gonna dictate this sorta balancing when the opinons of difficulty are so different? 

 

What you find hard. Is exclusive to you. What you find easy is exclusive to you. It's dependent on the content your doing and it's dependent on the builds you play. 

 

We don't all find the same things easy and hard. 

 

For example. I picked up elementalist. As both power and condi weaver very quickly and got on with it fairly easily. 

 

I still suck at mesmer even tho players say mesmers far easier then elementalist. 

 

So in this situation id say mesmer should do more damage then elementalist. Yet you may disagree. 

 

Vast majority of people find this game too hard already and u want to further alienate them. Every class should be balanced. Every class should be competitive. Every class takes alot of effort to play to the bleeding edge of its capability. 

 

People just like to.throw "minon mancer" and "bear now" at people saying reaper and ranger are so much easier yet neither of these speccs are utilised in top players.. they don't compete already. 

 

Soulbeast actually is considered hard to master, it takes alot of time to learn how to squeeze the DPS out of it. 

 

And 8k?! How?!. Lol even if I litterally hit anything and everything blind folded my ele is doing a minimum of 14k in exotic gear. Lmfao. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 It's really not that hard. 

 

Go look up its rotation.. I don't get why it's considered soo difficult to learn a litteral rotation. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Jski.6180]

I find that tempest will never support as well as other class both healing and boons (sadly aura are too discontented form the ele it self to every be a real boon) and weaver is just a lot of stats power creep (what would happen if we just gave ele free stats and a few more skills power creep class) to ever been its own full class.

 

There just no good reason for core ele to be as it is now and its only going to get worst after EoD elite spec. At least with the other classes having a 3ed core trait line is worth something but on ele core trait lines are way weaker then its elite spec. line.

[Puck.3697]

22 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I find that tempest will never support as well as other class both healing and boons (sadly aura are too discontented form the ele it self to every be a real boon) and weaver is just a lot of stats power creep (what would happen if we just gave ele free stats and a few more skills power creep class) to ever been its own full class.

 

There just no good reason for core ele to be as it is now and its only going to get worst after EoD elite spec. At least with the other classes having a 3ed core trait line is worth something but on ele core trait lines are way weaker then its elite spec. line.

 

Elementalist attunements need reworking in the sense that core and elites don't share the same attunements. 

 

To allow it more roles.

 

Like they need to change the elements. So they don't share identical kits then tempest could have boons and support introduced into it without being nerfed because of weaver. 

 

It seems mad to me that they decided to just make every elite specc a buff on what core had. Instead of giving them some unique parts to allow the specc to be more diverse In capability. 

[Jski.6180]

36 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Elementalist attunements need reworking in the sense that core and elites don't share the same attunements. 

 

To allow it more roles.

 

Like they need to change the elements. So they don't share identical kits then tempest could have boons and support introduced into it without being nerfed because of weaver. 

 

It seems mad to me that they decided to just make every elite specc a buff on what core had. Instead of giving them some unique parts to allow the specc to be more diverse In capability. 

That a big lift to ask anet to do it would be far easier to ask for tempest line to get strong boons give weaver more states that enchanet there attks "unblockables and boon strips" and give core ele and F5 (any thing form its own atument to a build in aura tramnucation/applyer to blast of power).

[periphery.5421]

On 5/21/2021 at 3:29 AM, Daddy.8125 said:

Fire weaver is litterally a duelling class and is in the SPVP meta? Lol what do you mean?. I play weaver and can win a 1v1. 

 

I use fire weaver for 2v2s because I can 1v2 and win with it lol

 

Ele has tons of self healing. It has about 8 short CD evades with several interupts and knock-downs. With a strong burn burst ability through combos. 

 

I'm sorry but it's not weak in 1v1 not in the slightest. 

 

Your litterally calling a meta duelist bad at 1v1ing. Weavers problems come from the fact it has little impact on larger teamfights... Not it's 1v1 capability.

 

I'm sorry but it's just untrue. Weavers strong in a 1v1 and can sustain a 1v2 for a good amount of time.. it becomes less relevant when it's a teamfight.

Having one choice for spec does not make a profession good, it really shows us that it is poorly designed overall

[periphery.5421]

On 5/17/2021 at 8:19 PM, Senjun.8149 said:

it also looks like my signet of fire was nerfed, or perhaps the traits that extend duration...

 

It use to actually last about 20 seconds and do alot more damage... noticing it barely lasts now. I had almost 100% uptime in the past on signet of fire, no longer a thing. My condition build has been nerfed into the ground.... Meanwhile so was my survivability and thats not condi build specific thats for all builds.... I can tell you 7 years ago we use to dominate, and not in an OP kind of way against equally geared opponents, we simply contended with them.. Now... I dont know where we are. Sure we were extremely hard to kill in competent hands but now we kind of just melt. Our extra power was to make up for having to deal with 4 different elements and utilize 20+ abilities to be just as effective or slightly more than someone with 10. Why put in the extra effort to play a more difficult profession with no benefits?

Like, who complained about Ele instead of Necro? What brainless trash complained? I'd love to know

[Puck.3697]

18 hours ago, periphery.5421 said:

Having one choice for spec does not make a profession good, it really shows us that it is poorly designed overall

 

Tbh, thats not a Elementalist only problem.. if u look at top level play where Players are equally skilled All the Classes realistically only have "one choice" in the meta builds.

 

Elementalists problems are unique.. and something i think the next elite will actually be going to try and fix, which is simply difficulty. People dont accept High demanding proffessions. Why? Because the risk is higher, when u make a PuG u pressume everyone cant play the game. Because thats how you do it. so what do u do?

 

Stack Easy Classes where the Failure rate is just far Lower, Less punishing classes.

 

a Bad Elementalist will Die repeatively. Where a different class just by default is far less likely to,

 

i think our Next Elite. will be intentionally ALOT easier to play then Weaver to drop this argument entirely.. if they make Weaver the best DPS Option, they alienate the playerbase because u effectively Lock players out of Options because they arent as Skilled as the top 10%.

 

in PvE the problem is, Easier options do the same DPS (which isnt fixable due to the above reason)

in PvP the problem is Scourge and Prot holo is insane currently.

in WvWvW the problem has been identical throughout because Elementalist has never gotten a Elite which specializes at something different to the core Elementalist.

 

you can hand Weaver 50k DPS + 100% uptime on Alacrity, u will still be rejected. because Any proffession can be both Amazing and Absolute Trash based on the players ability to play it.

 

the vast majority of the playerbase cannot execute the Weavers Rotation optimally.. and a Even larger Majoirty couldnt do it in a actual Raid/Fractal Enviroment. which means barely anyones seeing the ceiling DPS of the proffession to begin with. it dont matter how high or great it is, it matters what % of the playerbase are capable of reaching it.

 

you cant overbuff Elementalist and Let the top 10% Do insanely high DPS For the sake of your average player, so it just looks bad in the average players hand instead, Thats why when u have a Skill curve as Wildly different between necromancer and Elementalist for example.. its kinda Toxic when put in the players hands.. because Necro by default "looks better" because the necros reaching a 80 percentile parse faster then the Elementalist will.

 

its part of the reason i feel They shoulda Just buffed Tempests DPS hugely. If players were utilising tempest as a DPS Class Instead of Weaver it'd go a long way to fix this. Tempest isnt near as boon reliant as Weaver nad ontop of this far Easier to play comparitively.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Daddy.8125