I'm a pure elementalist and came back after 7 years only to see...

[periphery.5421]

On 6/7/2021 at 5:12 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Tbh, thats not a Elementalist only problem.. if u look at top level play where Players are equally skilled All the Classes realistically only have "one choice" in the meta builds.

 

Elementalists problems are unique.. and something i think the next elite will actually be going to try and fix, which is simply difficulty. People dont accept High demanding proffessions. Why? Because the risk is higher, when u make a PuG u pressume everyone cant play the game. Because thats how you do it. so what do u do?

 

Stack Easy Classes where the Failure rate is just far Lower, Less punishing classes.

 

a Bad Elementalist will Die repeatively. Where a different class just by default is far less likely to,

 

i think our Next Elite. will be intentionally ALOT easier to play then Weaver to drop this argument entirely.. if they make Weaver the best DPS Option, they alienate the playerbase because u effectively Lock players out of Options because they arent as Skilled as the top 10%.

 

in PvE the problem is, Easier options do the same DPS (which isnt fixable due to the above reason)

in PvP the problem is Scourge and Prot holo is insane currently.

in WvWvW the problem has been identical throughout because Elementalist has never gotten a Elite which specializes at something different to the core Elementalist.

 

you can hand Weaver 50k DPS + 100% uptime on Alacrity, u will still be rejected. because Any proffession can be both Amazing and Absolute Trash based on the players ability to play it.

 

the vast majority of the playerbase cannot execute the Weavers Rotation optimally.. and a Even larger Majoirty couldnt do it in a actual Raid/Fractal Enviroment. which means barely anyones seeing the ceiling DPS of the proffession to begin with. it dont matter how high or great it is, it matters what % of the playerbase are capable of reaching it.

 

you cant overbuff Elementalist and Let the top 10% Do insanely high DPS For the sake of your average player, so it just looks bad in the average players hand instead, Thats why when u have a Skill curve as Wildly different between necromancer and Elementalist for example.. its kinda Toxic when put in the players hands.. because Necro by default "looks better" because the necros reaching a 80 percentile parse faster then the Elementalist will.

 

its part of the reason i feel They shoulda Just buffed Tempests DPS hugely. If players were utilising tempest as a DPS Class Instead of Weaver it'd go a long way to fix this. Tempest isnt near as boon reliant as Weaver nad ontop of this far Easier to play comparitively.

Not about "bad" elementalist when the elementalist dies repeatedly to any sub-par piece of garbage necro/dh.

[Puck.3697]

24 minutes ago, periphery.5421 said:

Not about "bad" elementalist when the elementalist dies repeatedly to any sub-par piece of garbage necro/dh.

 

Well tbh I'm a sub par elementalist and Dont die to any necro/DH lol 

 

Fire Weavers job is to be able to duel. It can do that pretty kitten well. Heck you saw blam 1v3ing and surviving in the daily ATs not long ago 

 

Elementalists problem is it doesn't teamfight well its only real use is duelist. While necro/DH/holo/renegade can be a duelist while also being a teamfighter. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Axl.8924]

On 6/2/2021 at 1:19 AM, Loke.1429 said:

 I'm actually ok with the balance at the start of each expansion favoring the new specs for a while. They probably prefer to make it so, because it ensures more players purchase the expansion and try out the content. The problem for me is that they need to do some more/better work currently/usually improve balance between the classes.

Edit: the rest of this post is from WvW power weaver staff perspective

Right now ele needs some tuning. I think power needs a small buff, arcane utilities needs buffs. Lava font change from way back needs to be reverted. More importantly its too punishing to play elementalist as it is now because when you compare damage and survivability + mobility, ele is sightly below ok on damage, but off the charts bad on survivability + mobility compared with other classes that output same or better damage. I think the core problem lies in most traitlines not boosting survivability + mobility enough, not enough movement skills, and most importantly slow cc, less dmg hate mechanics, and skill with damage/targeting that is really hard to utilize / hit with in smaller groups where people know how to play. Avg. skill in wvw is lower now than it used to be, so maybe it's not so common anymore, but something simple like a player sidestep'ing my fireballs from staff always makes me frustrated (moving side to side repeatedly). Its my friggin auto attack, and having it not connect because of movement like that is so stupid. The same applies to the slow as f fire summons. When they are summoned, why not summon them on the target with a knockdown?

Another thing that keeps bothering me is the Weaver earth+arcane skill #3 which roots you with a long cast, and having that blocked by small bump in terrain, a tree or a miniscule rock is also a really bad experience. I wish we had less projectile based skills. I mean, come on, its magic. If you are a wizard/mage-esque class doing magic, what's the reasoning that so many skills has to start at the hand and move as a shockingly slow projectile? Either way, magic could/should move through/over some obstacle like a little rock. This is a small part of the reason for why I prefer instant skills, ground targeted (or even melee skills as a ranged player) over projectiles any day.

From a general balance point of view, they should never have introduced so many 100% damage mitigations, when you have the dodge, the vast majority of the rest needs to be partial mitigations (and very few of them stacking) in my opinion. Just look at block, as a mechanic its really stupid that it blocks one hit regardless of how powerful it is, and that this buff is easy to get / shared. Guardians have more powerful magic then elementalists? Lol... Maybe block could be changed to partial reduction + damage redirect to the person granting the buff? I hope you see this @Fire Attunement.9835 or @Cal Cohen.2358 / @Cal Cohen.3527, and that this feedback helps the game. /end rant.

Oh, while I have you here, please also check out my other recommendations in this post: 

I used to be slightly ok with eles being squishy because the mobility the nerf and ICD to onyx skin mist form and such really leave a lot to be desired, especially In SPVP.

 

Personally my thoughts is: ele should be hyper mobile to make up for lack of tankiness.

 

[Eraden.8740]

I am not really familiar with other professions. I can say that comparing performance between my Condi Fire Weaver and my brother's Condi Guardian, his character seems to be able to do more damage and survive better than mine. Is this difference similar when comparing Elementalists to the other professions?

[Fueki.4753]

18 minutes ago, Eraden.8740 said:

I am not really familiar with other professions. I can say that comparing performance between my Condi Fire Weaver and my brother's Condi Guardian, his character seems to be able to do more damage and survive better than mine. Is this difference similar when comparing Elementalists to the other professions?

To me it feels like that every profession, except for Warrior and Elementalists, can build for over-performing builds.

But comparing Guardian to Elementalist is like comparing the moon to a common pebble. One is the most versatile and most effective profession, the other on is the least viable one that they constantly make sure it stays at the bottom.

 

[Mik.3401]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:24 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

The problem is too much of everything but damage.  Glass cannons can't be glass cannons in this game because they also have too much mobility, stealth, and other nonsense that makes them not really glassy at all.  Glass cannons should have to commit to combat and win by pressure.  They should not be able to effortlessly disengage whenever they please.  That's how you justify BIG damage.

Ok thief can do it most of the time, Mesmer only sometimes (glass cannon build just has blink with 35 cd and single 2-3s of stealth with like 25-35cd as well). Who else does that? Ranger may be using zerker gear but due to pet and many other perks they have I wouldn’t call them glass cannon

[Puck.3697]

On 6/17/2021 at 8:32 AM, Axl.8924 said:

I used to be slightly ok with eles being squishy because the mobility the nerf and ICD to onyx skin mist form and such really leave a lot to be desired, especially In SPVP.

 

Personally my thoughts is: ele should be hyper mobile to make up for lack of tankiness.

 

 

Imma guess this is a comment on core ele alone?. I think a reason why we aren't getting hyper mobility or anything is because of how tanky Fire weaver is. That build is very capable of 1vXing in SPVP and winning. 

 

When you think how much weaver has access to it's quite clear how also. 

 

But this is the issue, because each elite of ele has been a upgrade on the prior. The nerfs punch all the speccs whenever it's issued 

 

I mean I'm not rly for or against any changes. I feel like all the speccs of ele are basically just a additional mechanic on the core. So to me they all feel the same and it rly don't matter to me which is meta. 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Jski.6180]

The ultimate joke underlying the ele class effect is healing rain dose not realty heal because of how reg works and just how easy any other player can cover over the ele reg or the ele it self is covering over the stronger reg with one of its weaker reg.

 

The very game at its core is made for ele not to work. Ele and ele effects simply do not fit in this game.

[Axl.8924]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Imma guess this is a comment on core ele alone?. I think a reason why we aren't getting hyper mobility or anything is because of how tanky Fire weaver is. That build is very capable of 1vXing in SPVP and winning. 

 

When you think how much weaver has access to it's quite clear how also. 

 

But this is the issue, because each elite of ele has been a upgrade on the prior. The nerfs punch all the speccs whenever it's issued 

 

I mean I'm not rly for or against any changes. I feel like all the speccs of ele are basically just a additional mechanic on the core. So to me they all feel the same and it rly don't matter to me which is meta. 

 

 

 

Thats the thing, i don't have weaver unlocked i can play core and tempest and both are very different.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Yes the basic problem from general balancing core Ele  has is that everythime on of the elite specs over shoot with performance the core traits & weapons get nerfed . This not only a core problem of ele other profession have this problem too.

 

This is a absolute lazy attitude from the developer side which ruin the whole class concept in GW2

 

In PvE the problem other also said it right Weaver doesn't do this much dmg only 0.001% of the playerbase is able to get those big golem number like you see in SnowCrow videos and not a small numbers say they are fake because even players who played the class for years don't get those numbers.

 

The real problem is for most players Weaver even played optimal doesn't do much more dmg then the super tank classes like cFB and Scourge which have a brain dead rota in compare to even power Weaver don't get started to condi Weaver where you need to play a full symphonic while fighting the boss.

 

On top of this they made it worse with the exposed buff change power builds went out of business and condi became new meta . On top of all this again the condi builds which are also super tank build doing around 20% more dmg then the equal power builds so they introduced a lot of 'power creep' 

 

e.g fractals:

Uncategorised in the Holding cell Area 

Before around 60K now 80K

 

Arkk from 98cm before 22.x dps with Weaver with cFb 25k

 

And this is all with HFB and not an optimal setup while the Weaver kinda was. Especially in the holding cell area you can squeeze more out we could use Mirage Alarc instead of Alarcrene and our 3th dps player did only 43k lumping behind.

 

The is also the miss concept that Arena.NET thinks Tempest is good which it isn't I mean you could have play d/d Tempest and switch for big hit boxes to d/h  while the later was good before nerf d/d is around 31 to 33k on the golem which doesn't compare to the other builds with 38 to 40K. Basically what this means it is good for a casual t4 run but it was never good enough for cms.

 

I mean it would makes sense when they decide after nerfing horn to buff the whole class again.

 

I want to note something on this to make it understand if by luck an Arena.NET dev shows in this thread . The problem isn't just balancing since the condi balance change and I'm forced to play cFB non-stop . I have the most boring game play since I started playing this game many years ago.

 

In sPvP the problem is more on the community side ele got with all the specs a lot of hate from the community . I think at the beginning both Tempest and Weaver were too much but later when basic abilities got nerfed from ele it was just harassment.

 

Those a the mentioned off hand dagger abilities with too much cd now also the nerf at the might generation was too much also the nerf on the water trait line .

 

Basically this is what forces the players in sPvP to play Weaver not as dps but as tank if you look at the meta battle builds.

 

I personally play condi Tempest d/h which gives me enough to play it offensive , generate might for everyone , condi clean and cc and even have mobility . From my perspective Weaver is so brutally nerfed in sPvP it doesn't make sense to play it over Tempest.

[Puck.3697]

On 6/18/2021 at 8:04 AM, Eraden.8740 said:

I am not really familiar with other professions. I can say that comparing performance between my Condi Fire Weaver and my brother's Condi Guardian, his character seems to be able to do more damage and survive better than mine. Is this difference similar when comparing Elementalists to the other professions?

 

In PvE 

 

Eeeh. It's more complicated then just what's on paper realistically. 

 

Weavers sustain comes from reacting to damage with evades and things Ur given as active tools. The problem here is they cost DPS because of how attunements work. You will intentionally come off your rotation to get those evades. 

 

It's benchmarks are manageable but unrealistic for a majority of the playerbase. 

 

It's only capable of offering a pure DPS role while guardian offers several. 

 

This makes weaver in practicality a worse option. 

 

Don't get me wrong here, weaver is fine. Content is so power crept over that there's no realistic bad choice and comparitively to the vast majority of players you can out DPS them with anything.

 

I've seen core eles doing 16k DPS be the top of the DPS charts while proffessions can now reach 40k. 

 

But weaver isn't meta Ur the not the top choice and you could easily make a argument why to be a guardian and not bother with ele. 

 

You will never struggle to do content of Ur decent at weaver. But you won't be optimal either. 

 

 

[Jski.6180]

Its out right disgusting how badly anet is as an organization ele is just the best example of there problems.

 

Ele as a class got a massive buff some time ago a very much "core" class effect that was taken from Bezerk class the ability to transmute auras. That was the ability to eat your auras to get an added skill is has a massive cost of an self class buff for an ok effect at very short ranged. Something other classes do not have to make a chose in actively giving up an class buff to preform a skill even energy dose not come at the same cost of using transmutation of auras. At the same time anet updated fire trait line aura applying of cleaning condis per aura it also got the added effect of cleaning condis when used in transmutation. The ideal is sound but there was a though though out the full ele community even the gw2 community this was going to be the "core" ele effect (something lost to ele when fields simply become obsolete in both effect and giving other classes the same very "master of the elements" field out puts). The update never came for the other atument trait lines for transmutation. Anet simply forgot about every thing transmutation where going to be for the ele class and only keeped it to fire trait line and only for condi clears at a very short ranged.

 

This game is full of 1/2 ideals that where only given to such a small number of effects every thing that works in this game feels like a cheat or a gimmick (un-fun to use and to fight).

[SinisterSeven.2781]

a class that's supposed to basically be the walking nuke, has no teeth now for years in the hands of most players.

 

and i've said it before, i'll say it again - if anet wonders why it ebbs playerbase all the time, it's mainly because of things like this. I've learned to deal with it by just using other toons but some people don't, and just cancel gw2 on their pc. gg.

 

i'm ultra bitter, but i'll just discard it as useless despite the amount of fun i had with it. its definitely no longer fun, and this being a game, that's the most important factor.

 

press 100+ keys in 20 seconds to somehow have a chance to hit 30odd thousand dps, or just call it a day, run pretty much any other class and hit close to that with 10 times less effort and without getting pwned by basic pve mobs. no brainer there.

[Puck.3697]

5 hours ago, SinisterSeven.2781 said:

a class that's supposed to basically be the walking nuke, has no teeth now for years in the hands of most players.

 

and i've said it before, i'll say it again - if anet wonders why it ebbs playerbase all the time, it's mainly because of things like this. I've learned to deal with it by just using other toons but some people don't, and just cancel gw2 on their pc. gg.

 

i'm ultra bitter, but i'll just discard it as useless despite the amount of fun i had with it. its definitely no longer fun, and this being a game, that's the most important factor.

 

press 100+ keys in 20 seconds to somehow have a chance to hit 30odd thousand dps, or just call it a day, run pretty much any other class and hit close to that with 10 times less effort and without getting pwned by basic pve mobs. no brainer there.

 

Problem isn't weaver. It can do 40k DPS like other pure DPS when it comes to it. 

 

THe problem is the whole proffession. 

 

weaver needs the power nerfs reverted. Just give the trait 10% to both power and condi damage. 

 

core needs to be given a distinguished role. Something it does better then the 2 elites As a trade off. Imho it should become our DPS/utility hybrid. 

 

tempest needs to be better matched with firebrand and scourge. Give it quickness access. Make auras stronger. 

 

Weaver fills the same role as DH effectively it's fine for proffessions to have pure DPS options. The issue is because each elite is a direct power creep on the last. Our prior builds core and tempest have been left worthless. So we have no alternative build to turn to so we can provide other roles to groups/raids like guardian can 

 

To the difficulty thing. I'm afraid you can't factor difficulty into balancing. You play a hard class because you enjoy harder challenges. Not for a higher reward effectively. It will alienate a large portion of players to balance this sorta way 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Loke.1429]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:35 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Honestly speaking something is really off with the damage, like you hit for 2~6k on targets from Meteor Shower, if you're lucky that is, since most of the time you see "Blocked", because haha aegis goes brrrrr and other questionable things.
Then you see how enemy hits you for like(gonna find screens and just write the numbers):

Things with (!) means hits were received on char with 2.4~2.6k armor
- Spinal Shivers - 8917
- Phase Smash - 10305, 10106

- CoR - 8509, 13556

- Test of Faith - 10041, 10805, 9016, 7831(!), 7334(!)

- Vault - 14501, 16757, 9495(!)

- Arcing Slice - 8710(!), 8776(!)

- Fierce Blow - 10109(!), 8582(!), 10109(!)

- Arc Divider - 5073(!), 5408(!), 5518(!)

- Death's Judgement - 14119(!)

- Burning - 5700/tick, 11827/tick(Rev copied condies lol...)

- Rush - 7900(!)

- Deathstrike - 574, 11514(second strike)

- Rocket - 9418

- Putrid Mark - 4993

- Feigned Surge - 10351(!), 8861(!)

All of these are post FEB2020.
Just to be clear though, I wasn't doing screens everytime I saw some bs number be it either condi or power, since I would fill that screen folder within a month.

 

Your numbers look right to me, the screenshots in link below is the past few weeks. Note that not all opponents are full bers here. Didn't play much. Yet still played enough wvw power weaver..

https://i.imgur.com/QdCRIhy.png

10683 True Shot (Dragonhunter, 1500 range, 4 second cd, 0,75 sec cast)
10694 Hunter's Ward (Dragonhunter, 1200 range, 40 second cd, 1sec channel)
12267 Spinal Shivers (Core Necro, 1200 range, 20 second cd, 1 sec cast)
14777 Vault (Daredevil, 600 range - was also from stealth.. 5 / 12 (base) initiative, no cd, 0,75s cast)

Note that my character has 12965 HP and 1967 Armor...  glassy as f with mediocre damage

Edited June 25, 2021 by Loke.1429

[Loke.1429]

On 6/25/2021 at 12:08 AM, Loke.1429 said:

Your numbers look right to me, the screenshots in link below is the past few weeks. Note that not all opponents are full bers here. Didn't play much. Yet still played enough wvw power weaver..

https://i.imgur.com/QdCRIhy.png

10683 True Shot (Dragonhunter, 1500 range, 4 second cd, 0,75 sec cast)
10694 Hunter's Ward (Dragonhunter, 1200 range, 40 second cd, 1sec channel)
12267 Spinal Shivers (Core Necro, 1200 range, 20 second cd, 1 sec cast)
14777 Vault (Daredevil, 600 range - was also from stealth.. 5 / 12 (base) initiative, no cd, 0,75s cast)

Note that my character has 12965 HP and 1967 Armor...  glassy as f with mediocre damage

I thought I'd share tonight's atrocity here as well. My ascended light armor + 3,9 coefficient skill from enemy:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(Become_the_Bear)
=> Me getting crit for 25 782, yes twenty five thousand seven hundred and eighty two damage
https://i.imgur.com/wItble7.png
 

Them 1 hits @Fire Attunement.9835
f this game

Edited June 26, 2021 by Loke.1429

[AliamRationem.5172]

41 minutes ago, Loke.1429 said:

I thought I'd share tonight's atrocity here as well. My ascended light armor + 3,9 coefficient skill from enemy:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(Become_the_Bear)
=> Me getting crit for 25 782, yes twenty five thousand seven hundred and eighty two damage
https://i.imgur.com/wItble7.png
 

Them 1 hits @Fire Attunement.9835
f this game

 

Gross.