Thoughts on moving SSC.

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

Although GvGs above SSC on alpines have quieted down on my server the potential for them and the problems they cause are still there. When they GvG it is near impossible due to enemy "spectators" to keep SSC ( granted its hard to keep anyways). SWT also gets flipped more at those times due to the enemy knowing that a majority of the map population is at the GvG. Duels also are a problem at that area, you never know if the fights are duels so you hesitate to help, and spectators who should honor the area as a dueling ground at the time will often gank players running thru and kill off yaks which also should be off limits at that time. Moving SSC to the shrine isle would leave the Windmill area as a safe space for GvG and duels without impacting the map as much.

[XenesisII.1540]

I don't really see the problems here. Objectives are suppose to help encourage conflict, they're not suppose to be in convenient places. If guilds want to fight without interference they have OS and Eotm arenas to use, most people are not stupid enough to interrupt anyways, or they learn the lesson the hard way. The south area is a community designated dueling area, if you want to duel then head there, if you don't, watch or move on, you can still go around it to get to south camp as well, it's not a choke area.

 

Having said that, moving south camp to that gvg space and clearing out current south camp area for a nice big space to gvg or duel is not a bad thing. It would also throw off dolyak delivery timings though, although if they designed it to be more of a "harbor area "(entrance facing south instead of north)and the yaks start  from the south side of the camp, walk around it to get to the sentry to get back on it's usual path it could keep the timing in check.

 

Other than that would rather they spent time redesigning the ruins area for something better for groups, like a giant arena or smc type of thing. Yes that means get rid of ruins because for the most part they're a waste of space, same as the north skritt and centaur areas of the map, I wish those areas were also developed into something better.

 

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

5 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I don't really see the problems here. Objectives are suppose to help encourage conflict, they're not suppose to be in convenient places. If guilds want to fight without interference they have OS and Eotm arenas to use, most people are not stupid enough to interrupt anyways, or they learn the lesson the hard way. The south area is a community designated dueling area, if you want to duel then head there, if you don't, watch or move on, you can still go around it to get to south camp as well, it's not a choke area.

 

Having said that, moving south camp to that gvg space and clearing out current south camp area for a nice big space to gvg or duel is not a bad thing. It would also throw off dolyak delivery timings though, although if they designed it to be more of a "harbor area "(entrance facing south instead of north)and the yaks start  from the south side of the camp, walk around it to get to the sentry to get back on it's usual path it could keep the timing in check.

 

Other than that would rather they spent time redesigning the ruins area for something better for groups, like a giant arena or smc type of thing. Yes that means get rid of ruins because for the most part they're a waste of space, same as the north skritt and centaur areas of the map, I wish those areas were also developed into something better.

 

hmmm, exactly what community designated that are for GvG and Dueling? The only agreed upon area for dueling I know of is the windmill? Also there was no mention of interrupting a GvG. interruptions to duels happen because you never can be sure if it is a duel. I have been berated before for not helping a player being attacked because I was previously bitched at for interfering in a duel. GvG should be done at EOTM or OS and duels should be done at the windmill period. If the community wants that area to be used for those purposes then only consentual combat should take place there, but you usually have some ahole (usually a thief) who will be watching that decides to gank a player running by for laughs. Think that from now on if I see a GvG in that area and we have SWT I will build a treb and use it to harass the GvG, I designate that as a community accepted practice lol. As far as an arena for groups thats what OS is , if there is a reason groups dont use it then Anet should figure out why and then redesign it to acceptance.

[Hesione.9412]

37 minutes ago, DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

hmmm, exactly what community designated that are for GvG and Dueling? The only agreed upon area for dueling I know of is the windmill? Also there was no mention of interrupting a GvG. interruptions to duels happen because you never can be sure if it is a duel. I have been berated before for not helping a player being attacked because I was previously bitched at for interfering in a duel. GvG should be done at EOTM or OS and duels should be done at the windmill period. If the community wants that area to be used for those purposes then only consentual combat should take place there, but you usually have some ahole (usually a thief) who will be watching that decides to gank a player running by for laughs. Think that from now on if I see a GvG in that area and we have SWT I will build a treb and use it to harass the GvG, I designate that as a community accepted practice lol. As far as an arena for groups thats what OS is , if there is a reason groups dont use it then Anet should figure out why and then redesign it to acceptance.

This. WvW is a multiple multiplayer mode, so expectations that 1 v 1 should be left alone is ludicrous. If we go past the duel to try and take the camp, realistically do we expect that the opposing player in the duel is not going to call that out to their server? Duels don't exist in their own bubble.

 

With GvGs, I've seen times when supposed organised GvGs with the same numbers each side, one side ends up with much bigger numbers. When another group, not necessarily on either server, come in and start wiping downs for both sides. When a "GvG" group attacks the small number of players clearly standing off to the side and watching. When a GvG is apparently cover for others on a server to go around capping objectives while the main guild on the other server is involved in the GvG.

 

WvW is not designed to be a GvG arena. If it was, there would be no objectives on any of the maps, and the only method to score points would be to kill opposing players.

[XenesisII.1540]

Quote

hmmm, exactly what community designated that are for GvG and Dueling?

 

Like every single server for the past 9 years of wvw?

 

3 hours ago, DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

The only agreed upon area for dueling I know of is the windmill? Also there was no mention of interrupting a GvG. interruptions to duels happen because you never can be sure if it is a duel. I have been berated before for not helping a player being attacked because I was previously bitched at for interfering in a duel.

 

GvG should be done at EOTM or OS and duels should be done at the windmill period. If the community wants that area to be used for those purposes then only consentual combat should take place there, but you usually have some ahole (usually a thief) who will be watching that decides to gank a player running by for laughs.

 

Think that from now on if I see a GvG in that area and we have SWT I will build a treb and use it to harass the GvG, I designate that as a community accepted practice lol. As far as an arena for groups thats what OS is , if there is a reason groups dont use it then Anet should figure out why and then redesign it to acceptance.

 

Avoid the dueling or gvg areas if you're not dueling or gvging and avoid the hassle? Not exactly hard to do. If you want to interfere with them by my guest, just don't complain about being ganked for it in an area known to have a lot of roamers.

 

I'm still confused as first you want them to redesign the map so gvg's can happen in the south camp windmill area instead and then state they should go the arena, so which is it?

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

Like every single server for the past 9 years of wvw?

 

 

Avoid the dueling or gvg areas if you're not dueling or gvging and avoid the hassle? Not exactly hard to do. If you want to interfere with them by my guest, just don't complain about being ganked for it in an area known to have a lot of roamers.

 

I'm still confused as first you want them to redesign the map so gvg's can happen in the south camp windmill area instead and then state they should go the arena, so which is it?

Every single server? Thats BS, don't attribute what a couple guilds decide to do to server wide agreement. As far as saying you are confused I get the feeling that's only your way of trying to insult me. The idea to redesign the area was because they refuse to use OS. But since "every single server" has agreed to use that area then every single server needs to police their members so the hosting server is not adversely affected by the event. Enough said, now i abandon this argument, I get tired of fighting  unskilled weak opponents. Laters lol... "poof"

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

24 minutes ago, DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

Every single server? Thats BS, don't attribute what a couple guilds decide to do to server wide agreement. As far as saying you are confused I get the feeling that's only your way of trying to insult me. The idea to redesign the area was because they refuse to use OS. But since "every single server" has agreed to use that area then every single server needs to police their members so the hosting server is not adversely affected by the event. Enough said, now i abandon this argument, I get tired of fighting  unskilled weak opponents. Laters lol... "poof"

 

It's been an unwritten rule that the south alpine ruins and windmill are a duelling & GvG area since before the obsidian sanctum arena existed, so saying it ought to be redesigned because OS exists is actually backwards chronologically. As for policing it's members, your server is not responsible for your actions or opinions, never has been or will be. Lastly, arguing from a position of ignorance is the only weak and unskilled part of this argument, so not really sure who you're fighting here. Whatever the case, have a nice day o/

[Swagger.1459]

18 hours ago, DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

Although GvGs above SSC on alpines have quieted down on my server the potential for them and the problems they cause are still there. When they GvG it is near impossible due to enemy "spectators" to keep SSC ( granted its hard to keep anyways). SWT also gets flipped more at those times due to the enemy knowing that a majority of the map population is at the GvG. Duels also are a problem at that area, you never know if the fights are duels so you hesitate to help, and spectators who should honor the area as a dueling ground at the time will often gank players running thru and kill off yaks which also should be off limits at that time. Moving SSC to the shrine isle would leave the Windmill area as a safe space for GvG and duels without impacting the map as much.

Go to EotM for safer spaces. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

If you're not arranging anything, there's no reason to be at the windmill. S camp is pretty bad for supplying anything; I suppose this is the bigger issue.

 

Now, I am aware there are a lot of questionable people in the sentry area that seem to be dueling or watching but change whenever the heck they feel like it because they want easy kills all of a sudden.  In that case, there's no need tor respect anything. Well, it's all up to you. You shouldn't be bound to agreements you never made.

 

Also, gvging a queued map, well... I don't care for that either but most people have better sense to not do that.

Edited May 15, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:24 PM, DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

Although GvGs above SSC on alpines have quieted down on my server the potential for them and the problems they cause are still there. When they GvG it is near impossible due to enemy "spectators" to keep SSC ( granted its hard to keep anyways). SWT also gets flipped more at those times due to the enemy knowing that a majority of the map population is at the GvG. Duels also are a problem at that area, you never know if the fights are duels so you hesitate to help, and spectators who should honor the area as a dueling ground at the time will often gank players running thru and kill off yaks which also should be off limits at that time. Moving SSC to the shrine isle would leave the Windmill area as a safe space for GvG and duels without impacting the map as much.

the gvgs are rarely to never a real issue. two equal sized groups of at least two servers are sitting there, with 20-25 people usually. and most does not happen during the high-Q times on the weekends.

 

who decides that? the guilds - the fighting guilds are the backbone of every server. inexperienced players might not notice that, but they carry nearly every single bigger fight.

 

nobody cares about the dollies when gvg'ing there. yeah they get killed on passing often, and? the shrines (ruins) are not too great to fight in. not impossible, but a ton of ups-downs, and not a huge amount of free space. plus, easier snipers. the terrain at the "gvg spot" is simply better.

 

about 1v1 - dueling... u just have always to calculate if its a duel or not. duels start with a bow, normally. some are also just ignoring them. i usually wait how a 1v1 goes and if it goes badly i fire some dps or cc into the fight and wait if they stop - which is what duelers would do, just disengage and communicate to "don't add" or "duel", till both have reseted.

 

that to be said, honor is a rare thing to see these days. most are just looking for cheap kills, we even had that issue during openfield guild-fights. been on a ppt-server with no other guilds, and the enemy servers' guilds just doublepushed or triplepushed us bc they could not take us on alone.

this is why servers lost their identity. the opentags are usually supercasual and barely useful. guilds carry the fights and therefore make the rules either way. the good pugs are also all ex-guild players.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 5/14/2021 at 5:24 PM, DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

Although GvGs above SSC on alpines have quieted down on my server the potential for them and the problems they cause are still there. When they GvG it is near impossible due to enemy "spectators" to keep SSC ( granted its hard to keep anyways). SWT also gets flipped more at those times due to the enemy knowing that a majority of the map population is at the GvG. Duels also are a problem at that area, you never know if the fights are duels so you hesitate to help, and spectators who should honor the area as a dueling ground at the time will often gank players running thru and kill off yaks which also should be off limits at that time. Moving SSC to the shrine isle would leave the Windmill area as a safe space for GvG and duels without impacting the map as much.

 

Out of curiosity, why not take it to EoTM? I think a GvG mode would better be served by adding a larger scale fight mode to the sPvP part of the game honestly. 

 

Would prefer any time spent modifying  alpine be spent in replacing one of them with a new map in general or doing a more massive overhaul to it then a single objective change. 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:30 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Now, I am aware there are a lot of questionable people in the sentry area that seem to be dueling or watching but change whenever the heck they feel like it because they want easy kills all of a sudden.  In that case, there's no need tor respect anything. Well, it's all up to you. You shouldn't be bound to agreements you never made.

This is also true. If duellists decide to gank, they are no longer duelling and are fair game, so interrupt them as much as you want.