To arcdps or not to arcdps

[medivh.4725]

Just curious, why would you need a 3rd party app when the in game combat logs can already measure damage taken, attacks, condi, heals, barriers. Why is it even allowed? What does it enhance and will it rather degrade our gaming experience? It is frustrating with every update, one will have to reninstall the arcdps. The settings at arcpds is not too userfriendly. So is it worth the trouble? And is it safe to download?? Opinions?

Edited May 15, 2021 by medivh.4725

[mindcircus.1506]

In short?

Yes... it is absolutely "worth the trouble".

Reading the combat logs does not give a holistic picture of your performance in any game mode. All it really does is give a brief look at any one incident.

What's  important to realize is that all Arcdps does is present data from the combat logs themselves in an aggregate format.

Your combat log can tell you how much barrier you apply at any given time, but it cannot realistically tell you how much barrier you applied across an entire encounter without you spending hours sifting through said log with a calculator.

Arc gives you the data at a glance.
 

Why is it even allowed?

It hurts absolutely no one. It's been greatly beneficial to this community as it has dispelled the ridiculous class bias that used to exist before it. It's been integral in helping buildcrafting to give accurate data. It's been an essential tool for self-improvement for countless players.

The list goes on.

This game places the player in a pretty significant bubble being unaware of their performance. Actual data and not anecdote or "feeling" is essential to breaking out of that bubble and getting a realistic view of your own contribution under a variety of circumstances.

Using it will put you in a world of objective facts. This is essential to becoming a better player.

 

It is frustrating with every update, one will have to reninstall the arcdps.

Downloading a single file to a correct folder and restarting the game is not a big deal in my world.

Edited May 15, 2021 by mindcircus.1506

[LuRkEr.9462]

3 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

It is frustrating with every update, one will have to reninstall the arcdps.

Downloading a single file to a correct folder and restarting the game is not a big deal in my world.

This.
Its super easy to delete the file and then just redownload it when arc is updated. You can also just use an addon manager, though its basically same amount of clicks.

[AgentMoore.9453]

To answer the title: Not. No third-party programs are (currently) promoted by ArenaNet and no support is offered if they go haywire or result in the actioning or termination of an account. They are an inherent risk; some people take it, I wouldn't.

 

That said, the game itself should provide a clear and concise tool for monitoring your various outputs and performance, and the information should only be your own; sharing (or not sharing) this information should be a choice. Having an effective (and accurate) tool officially part of the game would also remove some of the negativity associated with current DPS checkers, as you would then have a single standard against which to measure information (as opposed to various versions of tools offering incorrect data or users simply not understanding what they're reading).

 

In regards to needing tools such as these to play - you don't. You may run into some pugs who aren't up to snuff for the content you're attempting, but experienced players can easily find one another despite them and do whatever is needed to complete their gaming goals. If they can't find it with pugs, they'll find it with specialized guilds or static groups. For everything else, pugs work perfectly well.

[BlueJin.4127]

I use DPS meters so I can improve. Without DPS meters, there is no way to know how I’m doing, if I need to improve, or how to improve. There’s also no way to compare abilities with each other to learn which abilities are better. IMO, all MMO games should come with a built-in personalized DPS meter that shows my DPS (it should show ability comparisons) and some way to see how I’m doing in the group.

Edited May 15, 2021 by BlueJin.4127

[Melech.4308]

One of the reasons why you would want to use ArcDPS is to help the commander and you in tough encounters (aka Raids / Strike missions) and to make sure that you are doing the mechanics right. If you come into a raid group and you say you are DPS, but your DPS is lower than support roles (or a tank), or if you're missing mechanics of a fight, then at least the group has information on what went wrong and perform informed decisions after that.

[Westenev.5289]

Unless you're a genius or supercomputer, I don't think gw2 combat numbers mean anything. The game feeds you raw numbers, yes, but it lacks a time component. There's a reason why players measure rotations in dps, rather than big numbers.

[Ayrilana.1396]

3 hours ago, medivh.4725 said:

Just curious, why would you need a 3rd party app when the in game combat logs can already measure damage taken, attacks, condi, heals, barriers. Why is it even allowed? What does it enhance and will it rather degrade our gaming experience? It is frustrating with every update, one will have to reninstall the arcdps. The settings at arcpds is not too userfriendly. So is it worth the trouble? And is it safe to download?? Opinions?

 

It's apparent that you've never used it otherwise you wouldn't have made this thread.  What you've described about the game's combat log is very different from ArcDPS.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Hesione.9412]

4 hours ago, medivh.4725 said:

Just curious, why would you need a 3rd party app when the in game combat logs can already measure damage taken, attacks, condi, heals, barriers. Why is it even allowed? What does it enhance and will it rather degrade our gaming experience? It is frustrating with every update, one will have to reninstall the arcdps. The settings at arcpds is not too userfriendly. So is it worth the trouble? And is it safe to download?? Opinions?

It depends what you want to do in the game. There isn't a yes/no answer, it depends.

[wolfsblut.9435]

Everyone should use arc. The split between the top 10 and the bottom 40 in a 50ish group is just ludicrous.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

It'd be neat, but don't want a changing of the guard at Anet to result in a random permaban if they decide to adopt a no tolerance policy for DPS meters at any point.  

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

Personally, I do love ArcDPS and find it a huge help in two different ways:

- I learned enormously in WvW and PvE raids activities by comparing myself to experienced players with same classes than me (when to cast what, how to cast it, and so on...).

- To see for whole team what class is casting what and when, so I know when best to cast my own skills for a powerful together team performance result.

 

I regret very much that Anet couldn't find a way to integrate ArcDPS into the game, or if it's technically not possible, that they didn't create their own integrated system. I believe that as long as the possibility to chose using it or not is existing (so that those who don't want to share data are able to decline), we could only benefit to have something like that directly in the game.

[Rhokaz.1975]

Arc is the best thing happend to me in GW2 - Utility wise. Honestly, nothing gives me so clean feedback on what I did right and wrong.

I always can see possitioning faults, boonuptime, how much I or my teammates pick up people, see if I mess up a my rotation and where and why. I can perfectly see who ccs enough or not, see what mechnaics are played how by a certain player, that way you can optimize in your group and explain perfectly what needs to be changed. I mean it basically gives you exactly that what you need for Fractals and Raids. And that is it's essence. High end content optimization and reflection. This is what GW2 does not supprot a bit. It's rather very dump for high end content like any other game as well. And this is why such tools are needed and really awesome. Also the love the developers put in this is just amazing. Lots of UX and functionallity combined. Without it I'd be standing there always with a big question mark over my head. Feeling like a horse with blinkers.

Lets do NOT dive into toxic behavior of certain people. This should not be the topic. Lets stay on the scientific side of it. Here it is inevitable for me as a player. Without it I'd feel so lost.

Except high-end content I see no real relevance of it though. Having it there or not is relativly "Whatever!".

Edited May 15, 2021 by Rhokaz.1975

[Jski.6180]

Anet needs to have a build in one that shows healing amounts as well as aura effects over all and not to have a 3ed party do it for them that gives less then clear info. At best the current arcdps is more about you vs you and less about you vs other ppl.

[medivh.4725]

On 5/16/2021 at 4:13 AM, Jski.6180 said:

Anet needs to have a build in one that shows healing amounts as well as aura effects over all and not to have a 3ed party do it for them that gives less then clear info. At best the current arcdps is more about you vs you and less about you vs other ppl.

From the GW2 build in combat log, one could see how much heals you given out and to which player. And how much heals you receives and from which player....

Actually Anet just needs to keep improving the existing combat log. Maybe let it come with even more selection for turning on or off. It will be so cool

Edited May 18, 2021 by medivh.4725

[GreatApe.1820]

A ton of people use arc dps because it's awesome. It gives people instant feedback on their game play to help them improve. A lot of websites and programs start out like this and then ANET ends up building it into their game. Looking for group for example used to exist as a popular website before ANET ripped it off and put it into the game. I'm surprised they haven't built arc dps into the game yet to be honest. 

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

i use arcdps to check myself. i dont say anything to anyone.

[Cyninja.2954]

59 minutes ago, medivh.4725 said:

From the GW2 build in combat log, one could see how much heals you given out and to which player. And how much heals you receives and from which player....

Actually Anet just needs to keep improving the existing combat log. Maybe let it come with even more selection for turning on or off. It will be so cool

The best solution here is: install arcdps yourself and evaluate if it is of any benefit to you.

 

If you draw no benefit from it, then it will be of no benefit to you and vice versa.

 

Bringing up the combat log is meaningless, as is having others point out all the things which the combat log does not provide in a meaningful way (of which there are a lot). Going even further on this is the fact that the dps logs can be reviewed and analyzed, which again is not possible in game or via the combat log without a huge amount of extra work (and in some cases near impossible retroactively).

 

If you make no use of any of these features, or are unable to make use of these features, a simply trial with  arcdps will tell you all you need to know.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Kyon Sama.8301]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:17 PM, medivh.4725 said:

Just curious, why would you need a 3rd party app when the in game combat logs can already measure damage taken, attacks, condi, heals, barriers. Why is it even allowed? What does it enhance and will it rather degrade our gaming experience? It is frustrating with every update, one will have to reninstall the arcdps. The settings at arcpds is not too userfriendly. So is it worth the trouble? And is it safe to download?? Opinions?

Even if you don't plan to use ArcDPS meter. I still recommend downloading it for other features that it offers. It fixes some stuff for me that the main game doesn't.

[Excursion.9752]

All my friends that I WvW and Raid with use it. I however do not. Some people have their "thing" they focus on and mine happens to be mechanics.  I am far less concerned when players are under performing dps wise than I am a person that is failing mechanics repeatedly. I do not need any other programs to see that. It does not matter what kind of dps a person has if they're pushin' daisies.

 

I know it can be used for many other things I am just talking about the stat that is most commonly used. WvW looks at a gambit of things because of the different roles needed to be successful. But again staying on tag and following the commanders direction. Those are the mechanics there. Sure your group may get rolled but were you the first to die? You can fix gear problems if that happens to be the need. It's much harder to make people want to learn the mechanics and stay on task. Its a lack of self discipline really. 

 

So to stay on task myself here. It depends on what is important to you. If you need a measuring stick for your dps its a great tool to have. If you plan to command a zerg in WvW its a great tool to have. If you just like to play the game and none of that matters to you then I would say pass on it.

[Jski.6180]

8 hours ago, medivh.4725 said:

From the GW2 build in combat log, one could see how much heals you given out and to which player. And how much heals you receives and from which player....

Actually Anet just needs to keep improving the existing combat log. Maybe let it come with even more selection for turning on or off. It will be so cool

I have an out going dmg chat log an in coming dmg chat log and a healing chat log. Sadly you cant compare your healing vs other ppl healing of groups (whom ever reg is wining out on ticks tends to do the most healing though the reg and not other healing skills).

[Khisanth.2948]

Arc also has a handy metrics window which has absolutely nothing to do with DPS.

 

 It is just a handy way to view FPS + Ping + skill lag.

[Hesione.9412]

3 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Arc also has a handy metrics window which has absolutely nothing to do with DPS.

 

 It is just a handy way to view FPS + Ping + skill lag.

Yes, I wish that would be incorporated by Anet into the mini map (optionally), instead of ping being inside the menu options.

[Firebeard.1746]

On 5/14/2021 at 5:17 PM, medivh.4725 said:

Just curious, why would you need a 3rd party app when the in game combat logs can already measure damage taken, attacks, condi, heals, barriers. Why is it even allowed? What does it enhance and will it rather degrade our gaming experience? It is frustrating with every update, one will have to reninstall the arcdps. The settings at arcpds is not too userfriendly. So is it worth the trouble? And is it safe to download?? Opinions?

If I was a hacker, it'd be really easy to mess up arcdps. They keep their md5 hashes on the same server as the binary. So if you get access to the binary, then you probably have access to the md5 hash. I don't know why they don't have it on a separate github page or something. Comparing the hash of the binary to the file provided would only be effective against the most ditzy of hackers.

Combat in this game takes a lot of skill to be effective. Most players aren't even anywhere close to the top. DPS meters allow you to measure your performance if you want to get better. The combat log doesn't give good DPS information, just overall damage. If it spewed personal DPS, that'd be great.

Then there's obviously those people who use it to judge other people and not work with them.

If you truly want to push your DPS and/or measure it, then I'd say you should use it.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Ashen.2907]

The existence of a DPS meter has opened up entire classes for greater inclusion in higher end group play. If it degrades YOUR game experience, don't use it.