Remove immobilize and/or burning from pvp

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

Binding roots are terrible. Absolutely terrible.

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, The Ace.9105 said:

That seems to be the way anet does it so why stop now?

they get paid for being stupid, you dont so why do you do this too ?

[Shagie.7612]

Seeds is dumb but literally no CC will ever be "fun" for anyone who has to get hit by it.

 

Not hitting buttons isn't fun. Not getting to play isn't fun. It won't ever be. 

 

Doesn't mean a mechanic needs removed.

 

Like I can't even imagine a player in a more real pvp game using the same line of logic, they'd get made fun of and deserve it.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

7 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Seeds is dumb but literally no CC will ever be "fun" for anyone who has to get hit by it.

 

Not hitting buttons isn't fun. Not getting to play isn't fun. It won't ever be. 

 

Doesn't mean a mechanic needs removed.

 

Like I can't even imagine a player in a more real pvp game using the same line of logic, they'd get made fun of and deserve it.

When the most obnoxious CC in the game is due to a passive and not active, counter-able gameplay, a person can 100% make the argument for its removal. ESPECIALLY for a PvP game. 

[Shagie.7612]

3 minutes ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

When the most obnoxious CC in the game is due to a passive and not active, counter-able gameplay, a person can 100% make the argument for its removal. ESPECIALLY for a PvP game. 

wat lol

 

You mean seed?

Of course it's stupid. Everyone knows that.

But immobilize is not seeds.

 

Taking out immob as a condition entirely because it's not "fun" would mean you need to take out every debuff. Blind's not fun, it makes me miss my big buttons. Stuns aren't cool cause I can't hit buttons in em. Daze locks my fun out.

 

Debuffs make the player suffering have less fun. That's the point. They make it harder to fight. Doesn't mean they need removed as an entire mechanic.

[Shaogin.2679]

14 hours ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Now lets see what fellow ranger has. Entangle, 60s cd, vines, long immob and bleeding. Jacaranda, another immobilize. And creme de la creme, Ancient Seeds. 20s cd, roots with long immob and bleeding, EVERY time you cc enemy. Joke, pure joke. You see, thats why immob is toxic, its not conidition, its mechanic. Druid is one of my most hated classes just because of that. Not healing, not damage, not support, just because of that one stupid mechanic - that should be never implemented. 

 

As someone that plays condi Druid in PvP for fun despite it being weak as hell compared to actual meta builds, I need clear up this misinformation being put out here. 

•     Entangle provides a potential 10 sec immob on a 48 sec cd when traited and is an Elite skill.
•     Jarcanda is a potential 5 sec immob on a 20 sec cd.
•     Ancient Seeds is a 5 sec immob on a 20 sec cd.

To counter this we have:

•     Condi Cleanse
•     Evades
•     Special skills/traits/runes that remove/prevent/reduce movement impairing conditions.
•     Resistance which makes you immune to immob.
•     Sigil of Escape which removes all movement impairing conditions on weapon swap every 18 seconds.

Also, all three of those immobilizes come from pulsing roots that can be destroyed and thus cancelled. It is actually very rare for me to be able to lock an opponent down long enough to get a real meaningful condi burst on them, and requires a lot of prep and work.  All of this comes on a class that is incredibly weak in PvP and very easy to focus and kill. Hell, Ancient Seeds is the only thing that makes Druid even slightly viable in this meta. It really blows my mind that anyone would even attempt to complain about Druid of all things being too strong in PvP. Honestly, if Anet wanted to remove Ancient Seeds completely though and buff Druid to where it could actually be a strong support or bruiser class in PvP somehow, I would welcome that with open arms. If you're complaining about Druid though you have to be Gold II or lower though and be that kind of player that just completely panics and mashes buttons when someone attacks you.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Shaogin.2679

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

4 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

 

As someone that plays condi Druid in PvP for fun despite it being weak as hell compared to actual meta builds, I need clear up this misinformation being put out here. 

•     Entangle provides a potential 10 sec immob on a 48 sec cd when traited and is an Elite skill.
•     Jarcanda is a potential 5 sec immob on a 20 sec cd.
•     Ancient Seeds is a 5 sec immob on a 20 sec cd.

To counter this we have:

•     Condi Cleanse
•     Evades
•     Special skills/traits/runes that remove/prevent/reduce movement impairing conditions.
•     Resistance which makes you immune to immob.
•     Sigil of Escape which removes all movement impairing conditions on weapon swap every 18 seconds.

Also, all three of those immobilizes come from pulsing roots that can be destroyed and thus cancelled. It is actually very rare for me to be able to lock an opponent down long enough to get a real meaningful condi burst on them, and requires a lot of prep and work.  All of this comes on a class that is incredibly weak in PvP and very easy to focus and kill. Hell, Ancient Seeds is the only thing that makes Druid even slightly viable in this meta. It really blows my mind that anyone would even attempt to complain about Druid of all things being too strong in PvP. Honestly, if Anet wanted to remove Ancient Seeds completely though and buff Druid to where it could actually be a strong support or bruiser class in PvP somehow, I would welcome that with open arms. If you're complaining about Druid though you have to be Gold II or lower though and be that kind of player that just completely panics and mashes buttons when someone attacks you.

Now now, don't get ahead of yourself with "can be destroyed" statement, for that you require a melee weapon that can slash or some sort of damaging AoE that you can drop on your feet and hope that it'll be enough to remove it. Projectiles are rarity for being able to interact with them.
Your counters are pretty meme though, condi cleanse AND dodge is a minimum to get out of these roots, IF you're lucky and remove that immobilize burried under 31461487184 other condies farted by Druid or others. 
The only "counter" will be Resistance and that's only if it'll last long enough for you to get out of roots. BUT how many classes have access to it only via class mechanics?
Also can we remove that "stun" on shortbow 5 on Ranger? I'm kinda getting tired of getting stunned when I'm face2face situations and that happens a bit too often(WvW PoV).
Evade yea, may work if you see clearly animation, but oh yea Druid have access to stealth

[Widmo.3186]

4 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

 

As someone that plays condi Druid in PvP for fun despite it being weak as hell compared to actual meta builds, I need clear up this misinformation being put out here. 

•     Entangle provides a potential 10 sec immob on a 48 sec cd when traited and is an Elite skill.
•     Jarcanda is a potential 5 sec immob on a 20 sec cd.
•     Ancient Seeds is a 5 sec immob on a 20 sec cd.

To counter this we have:

•     Condi Cleanse
•     Evades
•     Special skills/traits/runes that remove/prevent/reduce movement impairing conditions.
•     Resistance which makes you immune to immob.
•     Sigil of Escape which removes all movement impairing conditions on weapon swap every 18 seconds.

Also, all three of those immobilizes come from pulsing roots that can be destroyed and thus cancelled. It is actually very rare for me to be able to lock an opponent down long enough to get a real meaningful condi burst on them, and requires a lot of prep and work.  All of this comes on a class that is incredibly weak in PvP and very easy to focus and kill. Hell, Ancient Seeds is the only thing that makes Druid even slightly viable in this meta. It really blows my mind that anyone would even attempt to complain about Druid of all things being too strong in PvP. Honestly, if Anet wanted to remove Ancient Seeds completely though and buff Druid to where it could actually be a strong support or bruiser class in PvP somehow, I would welcome that with open arms. If you're complaining about Druid though you have to be Gold II or lower though and be that kind of player that just completely panics and mashes buttons when someone attacks you.

Destroying vines that been complained about being scuffed for ages. Immob cleanse that works as cluster as it can be when spammed with other condis, also get out of 1 immob to catch another one. Evade, 'just doooodgeeee 4Head' argument, nice. I wonder why ANet nerfs damage of some abilities, you can just dodge them, lol. And rest is just situational, not even reading about sigil of escape cuz its a joke. Nice talk.

Yeah alot of work takes to cast that stun ability and get free immob. Why do you think decap ranger was possible to reach meta and encourge ppl to play it? Because its braindead and works. Dont start pretending that its so hard to play class, so weak in PvP, ohmygodlookatmemom, I carry this class, not other way around.

And at last, did you read last 2 sentences in what you quoted? Did I even slightly mention that I complain about DRUID being STRONG? Hell no, i cant care less about useless damage or healing it provides, and I dont mind it getting buff in whatever of those cases. Never went below plat, and as I said, druid is just annoying and instead of being seen as another class like warrior/necro/whatever, everytime I see it in any PvP mode I just see moving immobilize spam. Thats all. One annoying immobilize circus. And I dont think tryingtobepro druid player would want to be described as that.

GW2 is not the first MMO that implemented 'vines' mechanic. And I assure you, in other cases it had same response after few months - thats bad and toxic mechanic. Deleted after next few months. Its just too scuffed, terrormancer back in the days was imo better built class around fear than druid being built around immob.

[Kodama.6453]

20 hours ago, The Ace.9105 said:

Think about it. Would it really hurt the game if burning and immob were removed from pvp? It would hurt only basically and pretty much those broken unfun builds.

Erm, no, it wouldn't just nerf these problematic builds.

 

As an engineer main, just removing these would nerf:

- rifle (immob and tiny damage on 2, skill becomes useless)

- flame turret (literally a useless skill at that point)

- net turret (becomes useless)

- supply crate (flame and net turret are included in the skill)

- rocket boots (toolbelt becomes useless)

- flamethrower (kit is heavily burn focused)

- incendiary powder (becomes useless grandmaster trait)

- thermal vision (becomes useless master trait)

- bomb kit (skill 2 deals majority of it's damage with burning, skill becomes useless)

- OH pistol (blowtorch deals almost all it's damage through burn, becomes useless)

 

I would claim that the big majority of these skills are not seen as problematic. It would be a heavy nerf for condi engineer, which isn't really strong at all currently.

[Shaogin.2679]

13 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Now now, don't get ahead of yourself with "can be destroyed" statement, for that you require a melee weapon that can slash or some sort of damaging AoE that you can drop on your feet and hope that it'll be enough to remove it. Projectiles are rarity for being able to interact with them.
Your counters are pretty meme though, condi cleanse AND dodge is a minimum to get out of these roots, IF you're lucky and remove that immobilize burried under 31461487184 other condies farted by Druid or others. 
The only "counter" will be Resistance and that's only if it'll last long enough for you to get out of roots. BUT how many classes have access to it only via class mechanics?
Also can we remove that "stun" on shortbow 5 on Ranger? I'm kinda getting tired of getting stunned when I'm face2face situations and that happens a bit too often(WvW PoV).
Evade yea, may work if you see clearly animation, but oh yea Druid have access to stealth

The vines are not difficult to destroy at all. You do not have to dodge to leave roots, you can simply cleanse and walk out. As I said before, in addition to regular cleanses, there are cleanses specifically directed at movement impairing conditions. The Jarcanda and the Elite skill have clear animations to dodge. If Druid is going stealth, then it is a no brainer to be ready.

13 hours ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Destroying vines that been complained about being scuffed for ages. Immob cleanse that works as cluster as it can be when spammed with other condis, also get out of 1 immob to catch another one. Evade, 'just doooodgeeee 4Head' argument, nice. I wonder why ANet nerfs damage of some abilities, you can just dodge them, lol. And rest is just situational, not even reading about sigil of escape cuz its a joke. Nice talk.

Yeah alot of work takes to cast that stun ability and get free immob. Why do you think decap ranger was possible to reach meta and encourge ppl to play it? Because its braindead and works. Dont start pretending that its so hard to play class, so weak in PvP, ohmygodlookatmemom, I carry this class, not other way around.

And at last, did you read last 2 sentences in what you quoted? Did I even slightly mention that I complain about DRUID being STRONG? Hell no, i cant care less about useless damage or healing it provides, and I dont mind it getting buff in whatever of those cases. Never went below plat, and as I said, druid is just annoying and instead of being seen as another class like warrior/necro/whatever, everytime I see it in any PvP mode I just see moving immobilize spam. Thats all. One annoying immobilize circus. And I dont think tryingtobepro druid player would want to be described as that.

GW2 is not the first MMO that implemented 'vines' mechanic. And I assure you, in other cases it had same response after few months - thats bad and toxic mechanic. Deleted after next few months. Its just too scuffed, terrormancer back in the days was imo better built class around fear than druid being built around immob.

Destroying vines is simple. The Druid has a whopping 3 immobs so if you are getting chain immobilized then that is on you. Jarcanda and Elite skill have very clear animations and can be easily evaded. What kind of Plat player struggles with Knowing how and when to evade? Sigil of Escape has never been a joke, another weird comment to come from a "Plat" player. Also, while decap Druid performed well before being quickly nerfed, it was never meta, Plat players know this. It was a decent decap build but was still out performed in its role by other decap builds. You say Druid is not weak, I disagree, as does a large portion of the PvP community apparently. At the same time you say Druid is not strong, pick a side man.

 

Fact still remains, the only players having issues with Condi Druid builds are Gold II and lower players that panic and mash buttons when being attacked. I have cleared up the misinformation that was presented with facts. I have listed counters with facts. Your inability to utilize such counters is of no concern to me and does not make Condi Druid strong.  

[Widmo.3186]

21 minutes ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Destroying vines is simple. The Druid has a whopping 3 immobs so if you are getting chain immobilized then that is on you. Jarcanda and Elite skill have very clear animations and can be easily evaded. What kind of Plat player struggles with Knowing how and when to evade? Sigil of Escape has never been a joke, another weird comment to come from a "Plat" player. Also, while decap Druid performed well before being quickly nerfed, it was never meta, Plat players know this. It was a decent decap build but was still out performed in its role by other decap builds. You say Druid is not weak, I disagree, as does a large portion of the PvP community apparently. At the same time you say Druid is not strong, pick a side man.

 

Fact still remains, the only players having issues with Condi Druid builds are Gold II and lower players that panic and mash buttons when being attacked. I have cleared up the misinformation that was presented with facts. I have listed counters with facts. Your inability to utilize such counters is of no concern to me and does not make Condi Druid strong.  

You still dont get the point, do you? Its not about being strong build or weak build, never even reached to a point in my comment of saying either that or another way. I only state that its annoying, thats the main and only topic of my response. And as I said, I dont care about druid, never had any problems with it either during HoT or now during PoF. But immobilize spam that it provides and whole spec around this concept is just bad. Not gonna continue talking with you about your dodging, evading, cleansing and other stuff because its obvious and going further will be meaningless and wont lead anywhere.
Wow, amazing clearing up misinformation. You just said what I said what causes immobilize and what CD those skills have, and how to counter it which is well known by even people in silver I believe. Well done, cleared up. And assuming that I cant utilize such counters...yeah, thats exactly how it is. I get beaten by each druid, so I cry about how stronk class it is, meanwhile asking for changing mechanic into buffs in other aspects. Also my V key is broken, so I cant really dodge, will have to look up what those so called keybinds are. Yep, you got me, good psychological skills, point for you.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Widmo.3186

[Shaogin.2679]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:09 AM, Widmo.3186 said:

Now lets see what fellow ranger has. Entangle, 60s cd, vines, long immob and bleeding. Jacaranda, another immobilize. And creme de la creme, Ancient Seeds. 20s cd, roots with long immob and bleeding, EVERY time you cc enemy. Joke, pure joke. You see, thats why immob is toxic, its not conidition, its mechanic. Druid is one of my most hated classes just because of that. Not healing, not damage, not support, just because of that one stupid mechanic - that should be never implemented. 

I had to clear up this misinformation, or did you already forget? Also, you posted all of this in a thread supporting the removal of burning and immobilize. I'm sorry you don't like being corrected, but I feel that people tend to bandwagon on misinformation and run with it. When you post, people will disagree, that is how it works. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Shaogin.2679

[Enduronex.4865]

On 5/15/2021 at 8:09 AM, Widmo.3186 said:

Listen, bro, conditions are not a problem. The problem are mechanics. Burning is a condition like every other, stacks intensity, pulsing damage, okay stuff. Personally I dont really care about this, so not gonna say much, but if you want to nerf something - take a look at those burn guardians or w/e you have problems with. Condition per se is fine.

Immob is more problematic. Its way more toxic than burning or most other conditions, but again - problem is with how immob is provided. Lets look at s/d power teef (i know i know, delete teef from the game, blahblah) - Infiltrator strike is 1s, Panic Strike is 1,5s (30s! cd). Lets even add Surprise Shot, why not - 2s but needs stealth. Is it immob that makes build unfun to fight as or against? No, never felt this way, and I dont see a reason why any1 would cry about s/d because of its immobilize. Its a nice and cool mechanic.

Now lets see what fellow ranger has. Entangle, 60s cd, vines, long immob and bleeding. Jacaranda, another immobilize. And creme de la creme, Ancient Seeds. 20s cd, roots with long immob and bleeding, EVERY time you cc enemy. Joke, pure joke. You see, thats why immob is toxic, its not conidition, its mechanic. Druid is one of my most hated classes just because of that. Not healing, not damage, not support, just because of that one stupid mechanic - that should be never implemented. 

Dont delete more from the game, making it a game with 5hp each and pair of sticks dealing 1dmg with aa. Just get rid off mechanics that shouldnt be viable in any PvP mode, whether its sPvP, WvW, duels, arenas or w/e else. 

Eh, I'd say some *applications* of conditions are problematic.  Being able to apply 5+ seconds of immobilized on a foe as a ranger is actually broken.  "They can just cleanse!" Yeah, but... what else have they cleansed that took priority cleansing over the immobilized (which rangers can pulse, too)?  Ranger immobilize access needs some reductions.

 

Also, burning stacks on guards are still a little too high to be justified considering their sustain.  The stacks need to be brought down, especially when things like Rabid amulet (which somehow hasn't been deleted yet) are still in the game.  16K burning in 4 seconds is a little too strong.

[Shaogin.2679]

4 minutes ago, memausz.7264 said:

Eh, I'd say some *applications* of conditions are problematic.  Being able to apply 5+ seconds of immobilized on a foe as a ranger is actually broken.  "They can just cleanse!" Yeah, but... what else have they cleansed that took priority cleansing over the immobilized (which rangers can pulse, too)?  Ranger immobilize access needs some reductions.

 

Also, burning stacks on guards are still a little too high to be justified considering their sustain.  The stacks need to be brought down, especially when things like Rabid amulet (which somehow hasn't been deleted yet) are still in the game.  16K burning in 4 seconds is a little too strong.

There are three applications of immobilize the Druid has access to, one of which is exclusive to the Druid. All three come from roots that pulse a second or two of immobilize per second for 5 seconds. If these roots are destroyed, then no more immobilize is applied. Currently there is not a single meta build that does not have access to melee cleave or AoE damage, which makes destroying these roots incredibly easy.

 

As for cleansing, I can only assume you play Holosmith judging from your forum icon. So let's take a look at the Protection Holosmith real quick. This Holo build will cleanse a condition every time it gets Protection, which is what the build specializes in. It also gets cleanses from Elixir Gun, exiting Photon Forge, and blasting light fields. It can also utilize the resistance from Rune of Resistance on cooldown thanks to Mortar Kit. 

 

This is the kind of stuff that the Druid is up against, and why it just doesn't stand a chance. Of course for some reason though, players hate conditions simply for posing any sort of threat to them, and always neglect to mention all of the available counters when they talk about how OP these condition builds are.

 

I will say that you are right when you say the application of conditions that some builds can pull off are the issue though. Conditions are not inherently broken, but every now and then we do get some condi build that can just put out a ridiculous amount of conditions while being able to sustain their selves sufficiently. When this happens, yes, that build is then a problem. But it is the same way in which power builds are a problem when they over perform.

 

Also, why would Rabid amulet need to be deleted? Are we saying that all amulets with any sort of defensive stats should be deleted? Why? We are already at a point where we have so few options in amulets to choose from, that there is no point in separating them by category when choosing one. The list is so short you can just view the whole thing and find what you're looking for easily. Also, most of those burn Guardians and Dragonhunters are using Carrion amulets. Are we removing all the amulets with vitality too? Not to mention that burn Guardians and variants are easier than ever to deal with, and are not in need of another nerf.

[aymnad.9023]

Both are fine. The forums are looking desperate over anything.

[crewthief.8649]

2 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

There are three applications of immobilize the Druid has access to, one of which is exclusive to the Druid. All three come from roots that pulse a second or two of immobilize per second for 5 seconds. If these roots are destroyed, then no more immobilize is applied. Currently there is not a single meta build that does not have access to melee cleave or AoE damage, which makes destroying these roots incredibly easy.

 

As for cleansing, I can only assume you play Holosmith judging from your forum icon. So let's take a look at the Protection Holosmith real quick. This Holo build will cleanse a condition every time it gets Protection, which is what the build specializes in. It also gets cleanses from Elixir Gun, exiting Photon Forge, and blasting light fields. It can also utilize the resistance from Rune of Resistance on cooldown thanks to Mortar Kit. 

 

This is the kind of stuff that the Druid is up against, and why it just doesn't stand a chance. Of course for some reason though, players hate conditions simply for posing any sort of threat to them, and always neglect to mention all of the available counters when they talk about how OP these condition builds are.

 

I will say that you are right when you say the application of conditions that some builds can pull off are the issue though. Conditions are not inherently broken, but every now and then we do get some condi build that can just put out a ridiculous amount of conditions while being able to sustain their selves sufficiently. When this happens, yes, that build is then a problem. But it is the same way in which power builds are a problem when they over perform.

 

Also, why would Rabid amulet need to be deleted? Are we saying that all amulets with any sort of defensive stats should be deleted? Why? We are already at a point where we have so few options in amulets to choose from, that there is no point in separating them by category when choosing one. The list is so short you can just view the whole thing and find what you're looking for easily. Also, most of those burn Guardians and Dragonhunters are using Carrion amulets. Are we removing all the amulets with vitality too? Not to mention that burn Guardians and variants are easier than ever to deal with, and are not in need of another nerf.

Keep going, I’m getting a good laugh out of the mental gymnastics needed in order to defend this utter stupidity.

[Kuma.1503]

Binding Roots in particular either needs to go or receive bugfixes. 

 

Immobilize applied via binding roots have rediculously bloated durations. It is balanced based on the ability to destroy the roots, but this falls appart when you have entire weapon sets like Necro's staff that cannot damage the roots at all. Some builds simply get invalidated by this mechanic. The druid need simply hide the tell for any of these applications via stealth and once it's applied, they or their teammates can cover the condition, removing all counterplay from the equation. 

 

At the very least, every weapon that cannot consistently kill roots should be bugfixed to do so. Allow staff marks to trigger against the root for example. Also make the roots vulnerable to conditions so condi builds don't take ten years to kill them.

 

If the counterplay of "kill the roots" actually worked properly half the time, these ridiculous durations would actually make some sense. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Kuma.1503

[Shaogin.2679]

2 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Keep going, I’m getting a good laugh out of the mental gymnastics needed in order to defend this utter stupidity.

The fact that you would consider laying out facts to be "mental gymnastics" tells me all I need to know. Sadly, this is the level the majority of the player base is at though. The game tries to be the most super casual friendly game ever. As a result, PvP and WvW have been forgotten and left to rot away, and they are frantically jumping from one thing to the next in PvE trying to find something that works. I really hope this next expansion is worth it.

 

Oh but also, no matter how any of you feel, burning and immobilize not going anywhere, so, there's that at least.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

8 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

The vines are not difficult to destroy at all. You do not have to dodge to leave roots, you can simply cleanse and walk out. As I said before, in addition to regular cleanses, there are cleanses specifically directed at movement impairing conditions. The Jarcanda and the Elite skill have clear animations to dodge. If Druid is going stealth, then it is a no brainer to be ready.

Destroying vines is simple. The Druid has a whopping 3 immobs so if you are getting chain immobilized then that is on you. Jarcanda and Elite skill have very clear animations and can be easily evaded. What kind of Plat player struggles with Knowing how and when to evade? Sigil of Escape has never been a joke, another weird comment to come from a "Plat" player. Also, while decap Druid performed well before being quickly nerfed, it was never meta, Plat players know this. It was a decent decap build but was still out performed in its role by other decap builds. You say Druid is not weak, I disagree, as does a large portion of the PvP community apparently. At the same time you say Druid is not strong, pick a side man.

 

Fact still remains, the only players having issues with Condi Druid builds are Gold II and lower players that panic and mash buttons when being attacked. I have cleared up the misinformation that was presented with facts. I have listed counters with facts. Your inability to utilize such counters is of no concern to me and does not make Condi Druid strong.  

Yet you're providing nothing but misinformation here.
Which part of "you need a melee weapon or AoE to deal with the vines, because usually projectiles won't interact with them" you don't get?
I already can see how my condi cleanse will be able to remove that 1 immobilize(which is reapplicable because vines) buried under 345617846178 other condies farted by druid. Another thing "walk out", are you joking here? To be able to walk out of vines is even rarer than precursor drop in PvE, you must be super lucky to accomplish that before you get IMMOBILIZED again within the same vines. Oh right, you can also just dodge into another vines left behind when your friend luckily got away from it. Again the kitten stealth argument "no brainer to be ready", the classic "he may use it in his 0.1s of entering stealth or he could go away completely or he could do it at 0.5s end of stealth or not use it at all", what kind of gacha game is this?
Yes clear animations that are barely on screen and you must glue eyes to the monitor to see that tiny bit of animation, same level of transparity like Vaults "the blue shiny at the beginning of casting".
It doesn't matter if build was op broken kitten universe level of meta or just pepe frog level builds, it's still a toxic build offering nothing but annoyance to enemy, like pretty much every condi/stealth/evade based builds in this game.
You kinda forgot about 4th source of immobilize on druid "Ancient Seeds", which pretty much can activate on ANY cc skill that Ranger posses every 20s. You could also run Staff on Druid, which gives you another source of Immobilize, that's 5th one?

[Faux Play.6104]

The only thing that needs to go is the ranger roots on a passive, traited skill.  I'm Ok with it being on the elite, but no where else.

[Axl.8924]

Personally I don't think they should delete burning as i don't know if its even op anymore.

 

Guardian who used to be the greatest source was nerfed in burn condi department and i don't want them to cease to exist, i don't think its fair for them.

 

As for immob: Yeah its annoying but druids are kinda not able to do a lot of damage.

 

And removing Immob would also ruin other builds that need cc to work. Its better if we use the stab we were given and other stuff to avoid being immobed and stunlocked

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 5/16/2021 at 7:32 AM, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Now now, don't get ahead of yourself with "can be destroyed" statement, for that you require a melee weapon that can slash or some sort of damaging AoE that you can drop on your feet and hope that it'll be enough to remove it. Projectiles are rarity for being able to interact with them.
Your counters are pretty meme though, condi cleanse AND dodge is a minimum to get out of these roots, IF you're lucky and remove that immobilize burried under 31461487184 other condies farted by Druid or others. 
The only "counter" will be Resistance and that's only if it'll last long enough for you to get out of roots. BUT how many classes have access to it only via class mechanics?
Also can we remove that "stun" on shortbow 5 on Ranger? I'm kinda getting tired of getting stunned when I'm face2face situations and that happens a bit too often(WvW PoV).
Evade yea, may work if you see clearly animation, but oh yea Druid have access to stealth

entangle is an pulsing immob, and as such, cover condis dont work for it as its put at the top of cleansing every time it pulses.
as for aoe, half if not more of " meta " classes have aoe spam, be it prot holo, nade holo, necro of any kind, revs
roots are good in 1v1 as it turns into case to case basis who can deal with it, in XvX you use them and they insta pop since scourge just kills them with aoe vomit.

[crewthief.8649]

8 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

The fact that you would consider laying out facts to be "mental gymnastics" tells me all I need to know. Sadly, this is the level the majority of the player base is at though. The game tries to be the most super casual friendly game ever. As a result, PvP and WvW have been forgotten and left to rot away, and they are frantically jumping from one thing to the next in PvE trying to find something that works. I really hope this next expansion is worth it.

 

Oh but also, no matter how any of you feel, burning and immobilize not going anywhere, so, there's that at least.

Oh, I’m not talking about just any immobilize, I’m talking about the absolute monstrosity that is Druid immobilize! No matter how hard you work to defend it, anybody with even a shred of credibility (whether they get carried by it or not) will admit that it is over the top. The fact that you will not tells me all I need to know.

[Shaogin.2679]

2 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Oh, I’m not talking about just any immobilize, I’m talking about the absolute monstrosity that is Druid immobilize! No matter how hard you work to defend it, anybody with even a shred of credibility (whether they get carried by it or not) will admit that it is over the top. The fact that you will not tells me all I need to know.

And yet, no one with a shred of credibility is here complaining about it. You all argue with emotions and personal experiences, I refute with facts. To continue this would be the equivalent of arguing with a brick wall. No one here that hates any sort of mechanic is willing to improve or better understand anything, they just want to complain and have Anet bend to their will.

2 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

entangle is an pulsing immob, and as such, cover condis dont work for it as its put at the top of cleansing every time it pulses.
as for aoe, half if not more of " meta " classes have aoe spam, be it prot holo, nade holo, necro of any kind, revs
roots are good in 1v1 as it turns into case to case basis who can deal with it, in XvX you use them and they insta pop since scourge just kills them with aoe vomit.

Very true, but honestly wasting your effort with this angry mob. Also, the dude has "Troll" right in the name so, yeah.

[Ghos.1326]

Immob or burning should not be removed. Immob uptimes need to be brought down, and burn/poison needs to go back to what it was in the past: conditions that don't stack, only stacks duration. Burning is already the most powerful condition you can put on a player, and before they reworked it to stack, it was doing around 600 hp per second for that single stack (which is fine). With poison, the reason why it should not stack as well like before, is that it also has the added benefit of its utility, being able to reduce healing by 33%. it should go back to that, having only 1 stack but stacking duration.