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1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

That not even close to how alacrity works the cdr happens the full time of the cd of the skill not just at one moment of the skill it self of use or even coming off of cd. How would you need to stack renegades to get cdr from alacrity?

 

It would make strip stronger on alacrity there is no counter play for alacrity for strips that the point of boon strips. Agen the sec you have alacrity boon on you the cdr is happening. If the strip dose not happen in that sec the alacrity is just applied then your getting an effect from that alacrity.

 

It would apply to all classes who have these boons. There is no required duration of the boons to get effects from them. There is no counter play to the boon it self  vs strip.

You only get cooldown reduction while it is up.

actual recharge time = original recharge time - 0.20 * alacrity duration

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity

If alacrity is best applied by renegades and DPS is close with DPS classes people will stack them.

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I was actually just kidding, because the one suggesting that every class should get alacrity was complaining for days that scrapper got quickness, so I thought let's mess with him some more by suggest

I don't understand...   The symbol of alacrity is a clock, it was meant to be a boon as a result of time manipulation. How can any class be better than a chronomancer, when it comes to time

It's even weirder when you realize they gave alacrity to the Mesmer's dps espec while at the same time continuing to keep nerfing the espec that was designed to be a support spec.

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You only get cooldown reduction while it is up.

actual recharge time = original recharge time - 0.20 * alacrity duration

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity

If alacrity is best applied by renegades and DPS is close with DPS classes people will stack them.

The cdr is on going like reg so even having it up for 1 sec alacrity is having an effect to all of your skill on cd even the ones you cant see.

 

This obsession with perma effect of boons is soo bad for balancing in this game at this point it would be better for raids just to have the boons as an effect of the boss fight where the players can get them as set pieces and not get them from the other players.

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If it is 10s cap it would still do nothing, do you even realize that?

Condi RR = 0 boon duration.

Orders from Above = 1.5s per pulse with 4s duration , with RR traited for +50% duration then it is 9 seconds. That's less than the 10s cap you were saying.

You can stack two renegades and then because of Orders from Above having 20 base cooldown (before any alac) just stagger it when the alac is not up. Not that amazingly hard.

With alac mirage which isn't used everywhere the alac duration is base 2.5s. So even if you make the cap something stupid like 3s it would not matter.

For someone so invested in elementalist you sure seem to not realize an alacrity nerf would hurt ele more than most other classes.

There's a reason why rifle deadeye is so common on Qadim the Peerless, which has that exact mechanic you are proposing from the pylon (applies boons: specifically might , fury , quickness , & alac).
 

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11 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If it is 10s cap it would still do nothing, do you even realize that?

Condi RR = 0 boon duration.

Orders from Above = 1.5s per pulse with 4s duration , with RR traited for +50% duration then it is 9 seconds. That's less than the 10s cap you were saying.

You can stack two renegades and then because of Orders from Above having 20 base cooldown (before any alac) just stagger it when the alac is not up. Not that amazingly hard.

With alac mirage which isn't used everywhere the alac duration is base 2.5s. So even if you make the cap something stupid like 3s it would not matter.

For someone so invested in elementalist you sure seem to not realize an alacrity nerf would hurt ele more than most other classes.

There's a reason why rifle deadeye is so common on Qadim the Peerless, which has that exact mechanic you are proposing from the pylon (applies boons: specifically might , fury , quickness , & alac).
 

The though is to make a class of boons like they just did with the 60 sec duration boons. It would let them add in very powerful boon types but very very low caps.

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That's the last thing we need to be honest. It should be that bringing powerful boons providing +20% or more efficiency to damage should come with a larger tradeoff. If a boon is powerful enough people need to build around it, which makes balance a nightmare.

  • The reason why Condi RR and cQB are so strong is because you can't nerf condi RR /cQB wthout hitting their respective cDPS builds as well. The gain from Lasting Legacy needs to be more in order for them to do that (currently 15% with 5 stacks of Kalla's Fervor;; for some reason it affects strike damage as well).
  • Right now condi renegade and cFB with 8 pages are 40K bench and their respective supports condi RR / cQB are 30K+. All of those could be cut at least 10%, renegade brings lots of CC / boonrip not just DPS while firebrand spits out plenty of aegis and has tomes if things go awry. You could very well stack supports if you just lose a few thousand DPS but not if it is something more like 10K+ lost. We would not even have this discussion if pQB (~23K) were the main build along with pre-buff power alac renegades (~24k) but due to exposed change and torment changes this is no longer fully true outside fractals and any raid where boss toughness is not below 2597. For the longest time chronos were <20k when run as support.

    In summary the overall goal ought to be :
  • * full boons and healers <20K DPS (think healbrand, druid, StM inspiration chrono, 10 man StM chrono, heal quickness scrapper)
    * support <30K DPS (pQB, cQB which is slightly over, quickness scrapper, power alac ren, 5 man StM chrono, plaguedoctor scourge, condi RR should be brought down by ~10%)

    * full DPS 35K+ , ~15K auto on average
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On 6/11/2021 at 5:54 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

That's the last thing we need to be honest. It should be that bringing powerful boons providing +20% or more efficiency to damage should come with a larger tradeoff. If a boon is powerful enough people need to build around it, which makes balance a nightmare.

  • The reason why Condi RR and cQB are so strong is because you can't nerf condi RR /cQB wthout hitting their respective cDPS builds as well. The gain from Lasting Legacy needs to be more in order for them to do that (currently 15% with 5 stacks of Kalla's Fervor;; for some reason it affects strike damage as well).
  • Right now condi renegade and cFB with 8 pages are 40K bench and their respective supports condi RR / cQB are 30K+. All of those could be cut at least 10%, renegade brings lots of CC / boonrip not just DPS while firebrand spits out plenty of aegis and has tomes if things go awry. You could very well stack supports if you just lose a few thousand DPS but not if it is something more like 10K+ lost. We would not even have this discussion if pQB (~23K) were the main build along with pre-buff power alac renegades (~24k) but due to exposed change and torment changes this is no longer fully true outside fractals and any raid where boss toughness is not below 2597. For the longest time chronos were <20k when run as support.

    In summary the overall goal ought to be :
  • * full boons and healers <20K DPS (think healbrand, druid, StM inspiration chrono, 10 man StM chrono, heal quickness scrapper)
    * support <30K DPS (pQB, cQB which is slightly over, quickness scrapper, power alac ren, 5 man StM chrono, plaguedoctor scourge, condi RR should be brought down by ~10%)

    * full DPS 35K+ , ~15K auto on average

Alacrity is that boon ppl are building arone i am all for nerfing it effect but i am not sure if watering down boons and making them perma is realy the best way to go about balancing. Its far better to make them very short duration (non perma) but make them have a big effect to mostly the user and not as support. The moment a strong boon becomes support it brakes other classes balancing tools of cd and cast times.

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Tbh I personally dont like alacrity. Alacrity is basically they slowed your character down to hand it back to you by a boon. I don't rly like permanant boon uptime as a whole. But I feel alacrity is one of the worse offenders here. 

 

They should be spreading that boon to as many classes has possible. No icon image should be a reason to gate keep a boon which let's Ur character play as it litterally should be. 

 

If it was on me I'd say remove quickness and alacrity from the game and bring up the base speed of the class.. changing tempos is jarring and unfriendly and shouldn't be happening long term. 

 

Your rotation shouldn't just be getting faster and slower repeatively. It damages the ability to build muscle memory. 

 

This game has so much buffing and effects like no other. And imho I think it's about time Anet went away from this idea abit aswell.

 

Edited by Daddy.8125
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On 6/8/2021 at 11:48 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

"They didn't want any healer at first", I think this is something that is oftenly misunderstood.

 

Anet's goal was that there is no dedicated class for healing, like how monk has been in GW1. The goal was that all classes can do any task: healing, tanking, damage, etc.

It's more than that. They generally wanted players to solve their healing needs primarily on their own. Have you noticed, how there are no targeted heals, and you can heal others only through AoE effects? Or that there's no way to select other players via party list(a feature that was present in GW1)? Both of those things are so there's no such thing as dedicated healer. Not dedicated healer class, but dedicated healer role. And no, i am not guessing, it was something that they actually mentioned at some point before launch - dedicated healer was something they specifically did not want.

Now, as we all know, they changed their mind later on that one, but that was what they intended originally.

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5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's more than that. They generally wanted players to solve their healing needs primarily on their own. Have you noticed, how there are no targeted heals, and you can heal others only through AoE effects? Or that there's no way to select other players via party list(a feature that was present in GW1)? Both of those things are so there's no such thing as dedicated healer. Not dedicated healer class, but dedicated healer role. And no, i am not guessing, it was something that they actually mentioned at some point before launch - dedicated healer was something they specifically did not want.

Now, as we all know, they changed their mind later on that one, but that was what they intended originally.

I think it was raids that pushed the game into where it is today so that support class with out a "real" support system to back it up is often over buffed because its healing/support is base off of AI more then player skill. So things like support alacrity quinkness even super speed is "broken" in the current system. Its fine for a class to give such effect to it self with some minor version to other ppl but once the class start to give others the same boons as it giving it self then the game start to become massively unbalanced.

 

Sadly this all carried over to spvp and wvw messing up balancing what i image permanently.

 

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4 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I think it was raids that pushed the game into where it is today

Oh, yes, definitely. The first change to heal paradigm was introducing Druid espec and Ventari traitline/skillset in HoT. And it's clear those were done with Raids in mind. And most of the buff support rebalancing (including the most obvious case - the 10-man caps) during next years were also done with Raids in mind. With all the rest being a result of WvW.

 

In fact, there were some changes that were sensible only in Raids. The best example would probably be that one case where they halved chrono boon uptimes on many key skills, but switched them to 10-man caps, which was fine in dual chrono setup in raids, but suddenly killed  the single chrono support in fractals.

 

But i think what made stuff broken is that they didn't actually want a support class, so when one appeared that worked as it should (chrono), that had to sacrifice pretty much everything in order to support, but when doing that it was doing its job very well, instead of introducing few alternatives, they decided to nerf that build, and offload some of the functions to classes/builds that already had other roles (thus creating things like the current firebrand). In order to avoid pure support specs, they created builds that can support well and do other stuff on top of it.

Edited by Astralporing.1957
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