Is reaper overshadowed by scourge and core with every balance update?

[Boh.4568]

All the balance adjustments in the past years were implemented to address the main problems with each necro spec:

- reaper's chill is too oppressive and spammable, let's nerf it

- scourge in general is too oppressive with condi spam and too many barriers, let's nerf it

- core is too bunker, with unkillable meme builds and unfun to find on a node, let's nerf it

 

Problem is, while reaper nerfs had impact on reaper, scourge and core nerfs had impact on all specs including reaper, especially core nerfs. This means reaper got hit hard by every nerf aimed to any necro spec.

Power reaper is a very greedy spec, gives no support and can only rely on its DPS, which is subpar compared to other classes. Additionally it can't be healed by support teammates while in shroud.

The main excuse from anet is the classic "but necro has shroud, so it has double the HP!". This applies to core, because core bunker is survival oriented, hits like a wet noodle and so the shroud HP bar is in fact a second HP bar. Reaper on the other hand needs that bar to deal damage, because once you drain a reaper's life force, he loses most of the damage bonus traits, a big chunk of ferocity, at least a third of the overall crit chance, all the quickness and most of the might. The "second" HP bar then becomes useless as the reaper becomes just a sitting duck and has to disengage, but oh right, necro disengaging is terrible, so every PvP reaper build needs to waste support skill slots for one-trick evade skills with prohibitive CDs such as wurm and spectral walk, or else he can just sit there while his useless second HP bar gets drained. But hey, now your support teammate can heal you while you slowly walk away from the enemy!

 

You can see most reapers in PvP have to carefully plan their shroud burst usage, because if they fail they are dead or they have to teleport away. So they need to waste space for:

- tickle staff marks, with laughable condi, only useful to build up life force

- evasion skills such as wurm and walk

- defensive skills such as spectral armor/ring/rise!!

It's very rare to see a GS reaper, and GS should be the main DPS weapon. THe meta for power reaper doesn't fit the reaper playstyle at all IMO.

The only good sustain build they had was the Wells build, which was butchered for that useless blood bank because vampiric wells were too OP for core necro, and that killed a good reaper build just to nerf that bunker kitten. Also delete Lich form from the game, I hate that skill.

 

Will they ever do a balance specifically for reaper rather than a generic "necro" balance where reaper gets overshadowed (and penalized) by stuff meant for the other two specs?

[Jobber.6348]

That's because instead of nerfing Necro's mobility, they nerfed their durability instead. 
Necro has always been about being very oppressive in their threat zone, but as a trade off, they have garbage mobility. 

 

Only reason Reaper gets overshadowed by Scourge is because Scourge brings more to the table in terms of utility, while Reaper is designed to be purely a damage dealing spec. 
 

[Anchoku.8142]

Reaper solved Necro's biggest weakness in PvE; lack of melee power-cleave. It still does an awesome job in this role. That Reaper can even be used in PvP is a privilege and you can look back at all of the past nerfs for proof it was over-tuned. There was no need for a viable Reaper build in PvP. The same was true for Scourge. When you review Necromancer's two elite specializations at a high level, it is easy to see their main purpose is overcoming the two worst problems with the core profession in group PvE, which are terrible peak dps and poor utility.

 

We are lucky Arenanet finally decided to balance the competitive modes separately instead of disabling elite trait lines too strong to carry straight from PvP. Remember how many years of debate there was over a split and how many players complained because of imbalance between one game mode or another? The focus on splits for PvP and WvW the last two years has really helped the balance.

[Black Storm.6974]

It is even worse in PvE since the last balance patch.

 

Scourge is now a far better damage dealer, it has higher and reliable DPS, he can even do that while ranged (Reaper instead have to risk melee all the time and use more dodges, GW2 used to reward melee with more damage and it was a good design). Scourge do not lose any damage when taking damage from enemies (unlike Reaper which lose a lot of damage when hit in Shroud). 
As a Condition spec Scourge is also far more effective during the Exposed phase . Scourge also got great AoE damage and range.
I’m sure that, despite the ramp up time of conditions, Scourge Condition will easily out DPS Power Reaper in almost every scenario, even in Fractal.

One could think Scourge needs the enemies to stand still otherwise it loses damage, but that is even more true for Reaper.

 

Scourge Condition also got great sustain (and not having to stay always melee also helps that sustain), he can even be healed by allies all the time. It doesn’t sacrifice any damage for that sustain.

 

Scourge also provides allies support, even passively while just trying to do as much damage as possible.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Black Storm.6974

[Boh.4568]

12 hours ago, Anchoku.8142 said:

Reaper solved Necro's biggest weakness in PvE; lack of melee power-cleave. It still does an awesome job in this role. That Reaper can even be used in PvP is a privilege and you can look back at all of the past nerfs for proof it was over-tuned. There was no need for a viable Reaper build in PvP. The same was true for Scourge. When you review Necromancer's two elite specializations at a high level, it is easy to see their main purpose is overcoming the two worst problems with the core profession in group PvE, which are terrible peak dps and poor utility.

 

We are lucky Arenanet finally decided to balance the competitive modes separately instead of disabling elite trait lines too strong to carry straight from PvP. Remember how many years of debate there was over a split and how many players complained because of imbalance between one game mode or another? The focus on splits for PvP and WvW the last two years has really helped the balance.

The strength of reaper in PvE is undeniable, although it only applies to open world where reaper is one of the very best classes. For endgame PvE reaper has subpar DPS compared to other DPS classes (now including scourge with the new balance patch), and its greedy gameplay gives zero support to the party, and the self-buffs are redundant in an endgame party with dedicated support.

 

My original post was about PvP and WvW, I should have mentioned it. I disagree with your sentence about there being no need for a viable reaper build in PvP, just because it's already great in open world (and not great in other PvE content).

Every class should have viable builds for every game mode, especially elite specs. IMO it's bad that core necro is way more utilized than elite reaper in PvP/WvW, elite specs are supposed to be an evolution of core specs. The lack of good power reaper pvp builds outside of teleport/memelich builds made necro basically either core bunker (annoying for the sake of being annoying) or scourge (annoying and actually strong).

The reaper elite spec included the GS usage with strong DPS and cleave/chill in mind, but then chill was nerfed and GS is too slow for PvP, and everyone went back to staff tagging, which it doesn't feel reaper-like at all. The only good thing left are shouts, but IMO only for the lower CD compared to other stronger options such as wells, which were butchered by the blood bank rework.

 

That said, I still main power reaper, I enjoy it and I will keep maining it, and I can manage a lot of good plays with it, but I still feel like I'm forced to use too many defensive options such as multiple teleports, the blood magic traitline, and the staff, just to make up for the fact that a pure DPS reaper will mostly be gg'd as soon as they are forced out of shroud, left with no disengage options and with laughable damage (only axe 2 or the veeeeery slow GS skills), to enjoy their useless second HP bar as a sitting duck.

 

And every balance patch is just "that was adjusted for scourge", "that was adjusted because core necro is too tanky". I dread the day they will touch shroud uptime/life force pool/% mitigation "because core necro is too tanky".

[Anchoku.8142]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:27 PM, Black Storm.6974 said:

It is even worse in PvE since the last balance patch.

 

Scourge is now a far better damage dealer, it has higher and reliable DPS, he can even do that while ranged (Reaper instead have to risk melee all the time and use more dodges, GW2 used to reward melee with more damage and it was a good design). Scourge do not lose any damage when taking damage from enemies (unlike Reaper which lose a lot of damage when hit in Shroud). 
As a Condition spec Scourge is also far more effective during the Exposed phase . Scourge also got great AoE damage and range.
I’m sure that, despite the ramp up time of conditions, Scourge Condition will easily out DPS Power Reaper in almost every scenario, even in Fractal.

One could think Scourge needs the enemies to stand still otherwise it loses damage, but that is even more true for Reaper.

 

Scourge Condition also got great sustain (and not having to stay always melee also helps that sustain), he can even be healed by allies all the time. It doesn’t sacrifice any damage for that sustain.

 

Scourge also provides allies support, even passively while just trying to do as much damage as possible.

Yes, this is why I expect another PvE patch to trim Scourge dps back. Like so many other professions, dps and support need to have a trade-off. It is naive to expect the dev's will not notice this and make a correction.

 

Once Scourge is nerfed so it cannot provide good barrier and dps at the same time, Reaper will not look so bad. 

 

Arenanet wanted Reaper to be a power-cleave spec' so dps where cleave is unnecessary should also not be top-tier. If core Necro's cleave dps and utility was not so awful, it could be acceptable in some raids. It can auto-attack with scepter or dagger, too.

 

Unfortunately, MH dagger has a cleave and PvE dps problem.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Anchoku.8142

[Obtena.7952]

Scourge can't help but overshadow Reaper and Core because all things being equal, the way Scourge uses LF is superior to the others; it doesn't lock you out of your hot bar, it doesn't replace your weapons with 'reaper' weaponskills,  etc ... Anet will never be able to balance all these specs in the same class because of how they re-imagined LF use on Scourge but all the specs all have to share many traitlines, skills and weapons. 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

I think things are pretty balanced it's a rock - paper -scissors from my experience in spvp.

Reaper can really ruin a core necro's day. Due to his burst (which core lacks) if he gets on top of you it's over and done unless you can quickly peel him off somehow. Not an easy feat as even if you succeed, death's charge has a very short cooldown while for core every "stay away" button is  a precious resource and is not going to return soon once pressed...

Core can deal with scourges. Death shroud's life blasts are a scourge's nightmare, as once they place their shades and have no more due to shade cooldown, core is free to keep blasting out of their effective range, unless the scourge wants to duel a core necro in shroud with staff (hint: other than short moment of peace from reaper's mark, it does not end well for the scourge).

And i'm guessing a reaper won't have a field day jumping a scourge, as unlike core necro they can act while downed with their shade skills and generally have no reason to be afraid of melee duels. Not to mention higher capacity for boon corruption, which is a major pain for a reaper, unlike the core.



 

Edited May 21, 2021 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Firebeard.1746]

On 5/16/2021 at 3:26 PM, Anchoku.8142 said:

Reaper solved Necro's biggest weakness in PvE; lack of melee power-cleave. It still does an awesome job in this role. That Reaper can even be used in PvP is a privilege and you can look back at all of the past nerfs for proof it was over-tuned. There was no need for a viable Reaper build in PvP. The same was true for Scourge. When you review Necromancer's two elite specializations at a high level, it is easy to see their main purpose is overcoming the two worst problems with the core profession in group PvE, which are terrible peak dps and poor utility.

 

We are lucky Arenanet finally decided to balance the competitive modes separately instead of disabling elite trait lines too strong to carry straight from PvP. Remember how many years of debate there was over a split and how many players complained because of imbalance between one game mode or another? The focus on splits for PvP and WvW the last two years has really helped the balance.

I'm not a necro main by any means, but this is pure BS. Each elite spec should have its place in every game mode and quite frankly I'm sick of anet nerfing anything they deem a threat into the ground and moving on. I'm looking at you infinite horizon and mirage cloak. What they did to mesmer in PVP was garbage. And annoying given some classes still have ALL their cheese. The devs play favorites. I want to see less bias and more balance.

The goal of these balance patches should also be to open new capabilities to underrepresented specs across all game modes. And that includes reaper. the excuse shouldn't be "cuz core, you're fine"

I paid for PoF. Thank you very much!

Edited May 25, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Shroud.2307]

I still think Reaper is the easiest spec in the entire game with one of the lowest skill ceilings. There isn't anything you can do with it that you can't learn in a short period of time and employ effectively.

Personally, I think Reaper is perfectly fine as is, and although it may struggle in certain PvE content, this isn't exclusive to Reaper. Every class has specs that are strong in some areas and weak in others- Reaper's main strength is open world PvE, and it continues to be an extremely good WvW zerging and roaming spec.

I also am not sure what you mean about Reaper is getting shafted in balance patches, because I don't see that. If you truly want to feel like a spec is being ignored in favor of the balance of the other specs, try out core Engineer for a while. At least all Necro specs provide some unique benefit and have their niche.
If anything, the opposite of what you say is true regarding Shouts, as I'd say they're completely useless aside from CttB, and even that isn't the best given how easy it is to interrupt. 

[Boh.4568]

1 hour ago, Shroud.2307 said:

I still think Reaper is the easiest spec in the entire game with one of the lowest skill ceilings. There isn't anything you can do with it that you can't learn in a short period of time and employ effectively.

Personally, I think Reaper is perfectly fine as is, and although it may struggle in certain PvE content, this isn't exclusive to Reaper. Every class has specs that are strong in some areas and weak in others- Reaper's main strength is open world PvE, and it continues to be an extremely good WvW zerging and roaming spec.

I also am not sure what you mean about Reaper is getting shafted in balance patches, because I don't see that. If you truly want to feel like a spec is being ignored in favor of the balance of the other specs, try out core Engineer for a while. At least all Necro specs provide some unique benefit and have their niche.
If anything, the opposite of what you say is true regarding Shouts, as I'd say they're completely useless aside from CttB, and even that isn't the best given how easy it is to interrupt. 

Reaper is easy to use, but that doesn't mean it should be penalized for that. Guardian is easy to use as well and it has monster specs.

And Open World shouldn't be counted as a crucial GW2 game mode, any class is easy and viable in OW, but when you count PvE as a whole, endgame content shouldn't take into account "that class is good for trash mobs in OW so it's ok if no party wants it in a raid/fractal/mission/actually hard content".

 

Regarding the balance patches, I feel like when they adjust necro, especially for PvP and WvW, they mostly adjust core and scourge, and any nerf to those two also indirectly reflects on reaper (e.g. vampiric wells), without anet ever addressing reaper as an existing class during balance patches.

 

Shouts are meh but at least they have low CD, can be traited to have lower CD and additional effects. The healing skill has a very low CD and can be traited to also get LF and clear conditions. "Nothing can save you" is a good boonrip+vuln+unblockable attacks, so it's good if used just before shroud>spin-to-win. "Rise" is bad under big AoE pressure because minions die too fast, but else it's a free damage barrier to stack with shroud and protection traits. CTTB is better than Lich IMO, with half the CD, but very difficult to land.

 

On the other hand, other skillsets that can be enhanced with traits are signets (terrible) and corruption/curses (made for scourge). And Wells? Wells are very good for reaper, but they feel incomplete without their trait bonus which every other skillset has. Trait bonus that was completely deleted from the game because vampiric wells were too OP again for core and scourge, while reaper got the short end of the stick and still kept its quirks such as "you can't heal in shroud" and "your life force is the only one of the 3 necro specs that actually nullifies your class if it gets drained, but for us it still counts as a flat 2nd HP bar".

[Anchoku.8142]

Others may be upset but I am satisfied with Reaper as it is. Designed to work like a brush-hog, Reaper is the best melee trash-mob mower in the game and compares well to core Warrior, which was Arenanet's target at the time to get Necro out of the auto-kick class for instanced content.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Actually the nerf to Soulcleave's summit hits hard Reaper in fractals.

It was okaiish, a tryhard reaper could easily compet with DH in short phases/fights. Now we can't have extra damages on all warhorn #5 + wells + spin etc ... erh, reaper came back trash tier. Still strong for unorganised pugs, but benchmark not that high anymore after ~10sec.

 

I'm  bit sad for that.

To balance reaper I would low the might generation in reaper and spite but increase base power on some weapons skills, like AA daggers rather than Axe, AA GS ...

Edited May 25, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Anchoku.8142]

Yeah, Dragon Hunter has been really strong since it was introduced. I do not play Guard very often, though, so I cannot say much about it but the profession has a lot to offer and does not feel difficult to play. Scourge reminds me of DH quite a bit and I wonder if DH was a design target for it.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Anchoku.8142
Grammar

[Aodlop.1907]

On 5/17/2021 at 1:40 PM, Boh.4568 said:

elite specs are supposed to be an evolution of core specs

I disagree. I don't think they should be "better" alternatives to what already exists. Elite specs rather bring a new gameplay, and sometimes they're so different that they basically function as a new class entirely. Reaper is certainly a shining example of this, being a power/melee spec in a class that's mostly about ranged disease spreading.

[Obtena.7952]

On 5/25/2021 at 8:16 AM, Boh.4568 said:

And Open World shouldn't be counted as a crucial GW2 game mode, any class is easy and viable in OW, 

Um, no, that's nonsense. Considering that a significant part of the population do OW PVE and care about their performance in that game mode, there is a case for it to be the PRIMARY focus when considering how the game and classes should change. Subjective assessments of fdfficulty has nothing to do with it and neither does the argument that 'anything works so who cares'. 

 

The idea that reaper is overshadowed doesn't make sense either. There isn't a debate here on the performance that Reaper gives players, so what 'overshadowing' are you referring to? If Anet thinks reaper is balanced, why would they change it? The things you say are problems simply aren't. Whatever changes have happened in the game, the CURRENT state of reaper is a decent play and attractive proposition for lots of necro players. You can't ask for more than that. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[LucianDK.8615]

Reaper is far superior to Scourge in open world.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Reaper (power) since its inception after the condi DChill adjustments has been one of the most balanced of all classes/elite specs, even if it has had some underwhelming performance numbers in raids.  To which, most groups, being that most groups aren't as good as they think they are, end up getting similar performance from Reaper as they do other classes from my understanding from raiding guildmembers.

 

It's fairly easy to pick up and be effective with in PvE and great against trash mobs, and easily the most nuanced spec necro has with one of the highest ceilings in the PvP modes, and that's after they nerfed its flickering shroud builds...

 

Honestly it's probably THE benchmark for classes to have in terms of both design success and numerical balance.  The only thing they could do is improve condi performance slightly, but even then it's not abhorrently bad in the PvP modes like many other builds are.

Edited June 2, 2021 by DeceiverX.8361

[Boh.4568]

On 5/31/2021 at 9:02 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Um, no, that's nonsense. Considering that a significant part of the population do OW PVE and care about their performance in that game mode, there is a case for it to be the PRIMARY focus when considering how the game and classes should change. Subjective assessments of fdfficulty has nothing to do with it and neither does the argument that 'anything works so who cares'. 

 

The idea that reaper is overshadowed doesn't make sense either. There isn't a debate here on the performance that Reaper gives players, so what 'overshadowing' are you referring to? If Anet thinks reaper is balanced, why would they change it? The things you say are problems simply aren't. Whatever changes have happened in the game, the CURRENT state of reaper is a decent play and attractive proposition for lots of necro players. You can't ask for more than that. 

Yes a lot of players like and play reaper and I'm glad for that, but at what level of play is reaper widely used and well received? Open World, which is the "casual" PvE (no offense for OW players I'm a casual myself). As soon as you raise the bar you have fractals, missions, raids. Any group at that level will not greet the reaper with a "wow wonderful class everyone loves", but instead with a "lol" *kick*.

Open World is a big part of the GW2 gameplay, but having a class that is best just for the easy content, and as soon as you want to play as higher level you have to learn another class or you're out, that's not good balance IMO.

That's a problem with other specs as well, I'm not saying everyone is accepted in parties except for reaper, but since this is the necro subforum here I am.

 

The overshadowing is a bit difficult to explain. I just feel like PvP balance patches only mention Scourge and core because they are the more used specs (and the more annoyong ones), so any update is tailored to them while reaper gets ignored. That could be because anet thinks reaper is perfectly balanced, but a lot of nerfs meant for the other two specs indirectly hit reaper as well (again, vampiric wells), an this doesn't get addressed at all, so the current meta reaper build needs to give up on any offensive support skill and use at least two teleports just to be able to disengage at an acceptable level.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Boh.4568 said:

Open World is a big part of the GW2 gameplay, but having a class that is best just for the easy content, and as soon as you want to play as higher level you have to learn another class or you're out, that's not good balance IMO.

 

I play reaper ... I don't get kicked from parties. So do lots of other people. How is the balance not an issue for me getting teams ... but it is for you?  It's not a balance issue, because if it was, it would affect everyone playing Reaper the same way. 

 

Reaper isn't overshadowed ... if it doesn't need changes, it simply doesn't get them. 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Shroud.2307]

On 6/2/2021 at 1:54 AM, DeceiverX.8361 said:

easily the most nuanced spec necro has with one of the highest ceilings in the PvP modes

 

Mm, I hate to nit pick because I agree with everything else you've said, but I don't think this part is true.

When I see an average player playing something, anything, and compare it to another player that's highly skilled, the difference will immediately be noticeable.
I don't see that with Reaper. There's a difference between a good one and a bad one, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't take a lot of practice to look like you know what you're doing. I can do everything some of the best Necros in the game can do, but that doesn't mean I'm as good as them. Obviously you have to have proper timing and know how to read/predict skills, etc., but the point is there isn't anything you can do with Reaper that's going to be impossible for an average Reaper to do.

Then you take something like Thief for example and even experienced ones won't be able to do some of the things really good Thieves can do. 
A skill ceiling is something that, when reached, everyone will be on a roughly even field. There won't be much difference in how each person there plays the class. Reaper's skill ceiling is low enough that it doesn't take much experience to perform everything the best ones can do, only to time things properly.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Shroud.2307

[KrHome.1920]

18 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

When I see an average player playing something, anything, and compare it to another player that's highly skilled, the difference will immediately be noticeable.
I don't see that with Reaper. There's a difference between a good one and a bad one, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't take a lot of practice to look like you know what you're doing.

 

The positioning indicates the level of skill. Poorly positioned reapers (necros in general) are freekills and below plat no one has good positioning. Reapers are my first picks when I have to select a target, because the chance I get a kill for free is pretty good.

 

Quote

I can do everything some of the best Necros in the game can do, but that doesn't mean I'm as good as them. Obviously you have to have proper timing and know how to read/predict skills, etc., but the point is there isn't anything you can do with Reaper that's going to be impossible for an average Reaper to do.

 

Maybe it's because I main the spec, but I see huge differences between good and bad reapers. Takes me less than 5 seconds against a reaper to know whether I can go semi afk or have to put some serious effort into the fight.

 

The typical carry specs and builds are these, where you have to watch a full skill rotation of your target to know how good the player is, because this is where cooldown management becomes a thing. These are: guardian, ranger, engineer, thief and their elite specs. These classes have tons of carry mechanics you have to play around by baiting cooldowns.

 

For rev, ele, necro, warrior, mesmer you can see after 3 to 5 seconds how good your encounter is.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by KrHome.1920

[Shroud.2307]

21 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

 

The positioning indicates the level of skill. Poorly positioned reapers (necros in general) are freekills and below plat no one has good positioning. Reapers are my first picks when I have to select a target, because the chance I get a kill for free is pretty good.

 

 

Maybe it's because I main the spec, but I see huge differences between good and bad reapers. Takes me less than 5 seconds against a reaper to know whether I can go semi afk or have to put some serious effort into the fight.

 

The typical carry specs and builds are these, where you have to watch a full skill rotation of your target to know how good the player is, because this is where cooldown management becomes a thing. These are: guardian, ranger, engineer, thief and their elite specs. These classes have tons of carry mechanics you have to play around by baiting cooldowns.

 

For rev, ele, necro, warrior, mesmer you can see after 3 to 5 seconds how good your encounter is.

 

Positioning, for sure. That's something I always stress to new or struggling Necros, it's one of the biggest keys to Necro gameplay.

I dunno, I guess I have a weird opinion of Reaper because I've also played many, many hours of it and Necro as a class and I just don't see anything other Reapers are doing that's like "woah, that was crazy!" Where as no matter how many hours I have on Engi there are still things that impress me or that I feel like I'll never be able to do.

In this case I wouldn't say it's objective, but I'm still strongly of the opinion that Reaper is one of the easiest and lowest skill ceiling things in the game. The only hard part is having the discipline to position yourself and not over extend which is something just about every other class/build doesn't have to worry as much about.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

On 6/3/2021 at 6:59 AM, Boh.4568 said:

Yes a lot of players like and play reaper and I'm glad for that, but at what level of play is reaper widely used and well received? Open World, which is the "casual" PvE (no offense for OW players I'm a casual myself). As soon as you raise the bar you have fractals, missions, raids. Any group at that level will not greet the reaper with a "wow wonderful class everyone loves", but instead with a "lol" *kick*.

Open World is a big part of the GW2 gameplay, but having a class that is best just for the easy content, and as soon as you want to play as higher level you have to learn another class or you're out, that's not good balance IMO.

That's a problem with other specs as well, I'm not saying everyone is accepted in parties except for reaper, but since this is the necro subforum here I am.

 

The overshadowing is a bit difficult to explain. I just feel like PvP balance patches only mention Scourge and core because they are the more used specs (and the more annoyong ones), so any update is tailored to them while reaper gets ignored. That could be because anet thinks reaper is perfectly balanced, but a lot of nerfs meant for the other two specs indirectly hit reaper as well (again, vampiric wells), an this doesn't get addressed at all, so the current meta reaper build needs to give up on any offensive support skill and use at least two teleports just to be able to disengage at an acceptable level.

I reaper everyday in fractals. Scourge is really only good for the cms because the life pools allow the condis to ramp up to full effect, except for mama who drops all condis every 25%.

For regular t4s, reapers gives more to the group with aoe blinds and large cleave for the adds. Condi is good for longer fights, not short bursts.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Scourge is not so bad even for Mama, Siax, skorvald.

You can struggle a bit with the elites/vets if you don't time well your rotation with the fight, the group, but the few seconds you lose for each phases are by far compensated in every others T4,  but is also a very safe option if you need boonstrip, if you have dangerous instabilities like Frailty+ the fire balls, etc.

Edit* don't forget the change to the defiance bar, it is a huge buff for condis in fractals.

 

3-4 scourges fractal party was a meme. Now it has potential to be a pug meta; you don't even wish your FB to heal anymore.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508