grenth still active?

[vanguard.8397]

look i know that a lot of people would say that the gods have left tyria in by itself that also being reinforced by kormir but i have to say for a god that has supposedly left he is quite active even in the story for example for vanilla players you get to interact with a reaper of grenth aka one of grenths avatars in a way that will give you the information you need to purge the corruption straight from orr itself but in order to do so you reclaim a soul now corrupted by the lich elder dragon zhaitan by doing so you gain favor with grenth while also receiving the information needed then after that we also had many if not a lot of content that has to do with grenth even though he is not there you can tell that something is amiss with him as you get a whole entire raid about his domaine but also with path of fire expansion spoilers ahead after Balthazar kills you you meet another avatar of grenth who not only got palawa joko in a cage but gave you a chance to resurrect yourself from the spiritual plain another example i would like to make is that grenth isn't exactly a fully fledge god like the others in fact he is a demi god the only reason why he is not a fully fledged god is somewhat unknown perhaps he has with him becoming the new death god after dooms downfall but i highly doubt he would just immediately give into full godhood specifically after what doom was pulling along with abaddon i feel he may possible still linger in tyria just hiding or appearing as a normal human when in fact he is watching the world evolve around him possible igniting a possible fascination he probally thought himeself was not there either way this is a must have to meet the god of death himself whether or not within the expansion i mean for all we know he could have been watching balthazar from time to time just to make sure he didn't escape for all we know lol but that just my theory on the subject on speculating i would love to hear what you all think as well.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

Some of the gods were still around, but in the process of leaving, back in core. By the time PoF rolls around Grenth had fully left.

 

His leaving doesn't stop entities like the Judge from continuing to maintain his realms like the Domain of the Lost.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

That has to be the longest run-on sentence I've ever seen.....

[Fueki.4753]

Grenth is most likely still alive, but he most likely wasn't anywhere near Tyria anymore during Vanilla.

 

His reaper still being present doesn't mean Grenth himself was around as well.

The Judge in the Domain of the lost isn't in Tyria, even if they are connected.

But like with the Reaper, The Judge's presence doesn't say anything about Grenth's whereabouts.

[Jobber.6348]

All gods have fully left Tyria as of PoF. 

[Teratus.2859]

The misconception you've got here is that the Avatar's/Reapers of Grenth are Grenth himself.
This isn't the case though.. The Reapers of Grenth are high ranking servants of Grenth (who were once humans) which have been left behind on Tyria in Grenths Absence to continue running things in his stead.

Grenth himself had left Tyria before the events of Gw2 with only Kormir as far as we know remaining until PoF.
The Avatar of Grenth in this case is more of a title used by his Reapers.

What is a little curious though is that in the personal story you have that Avatar of Grenth the giant green Lich who is one of the Seven Reapers. (presumed to be the Reaper of the Ice Wastes)
But in the Dhuum fractal you encounter all 7 of the Seven Reapers and they look nothing like the one in the personal story.

As far as PoF goes the entity you meet there is not one of the Seven Reapers.
The Judge is another servant of Grenth who was also probably a mortal once upon a time who was tasked with a specific role or job fitting of his name in the underworld.
He's presumed to be dead post PoF though due to dialogue in the Dhuum Raid.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[Pax.3548]

It is unclear when did the gods left Tyria, though most agree it was before core game, but the dialogue in the Cathedral of Silence story instance from the seventh reaper makes me think the gods didn't left Tyria back at the personal story, I'll quote him:

 

"The keeper of this shrine has fallen to Zhaitan. Grenth wishes him returned, but I am too weak to perform the task. Destroy the keeper, and I will answer your questions."

 

Why would Grenth want this priest returned to him, if he left Tyria completely? I still feel they began to leave Tyria for good AFTER the personal story or at least during this time.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, Pax.3548 said:

It is unclear when did the gods left Tyria, though most agree it was before core game, but the dialogue in the Cathedral of Silence story instance from the seventh reaper makes me think the gods didn't left Tyria back at the personal story, I'll quote him:

 

"The keeper of this shrine has fallen to Zhaitan. Grenth wishes him returned, but I am too weak to perform the task. Destroy the keeper, and I will answer your questions."

 

Why would Grenth want this priest returned to him, if he left Tyria completely? I still feel they began to leave Tyria for good AFTER the personal story or at least during this time.

Could have been an order given to the Reaper prior to Grenth leaving, and just because they were leaving Tyria didn't mean they didn't care.

[Jaken.6801]

On 5/17/2021 at 9:54 PM, Yasai.3549 said:

All gods have fully left Tyria as of PoF. 

As far as we know.
There is still at least one god, whose dealings may imply still having an involvement with Tyria

[Rukia.4802]

On 5/22/2021 at 5:02 AM, Jaken.6801 said:

As far as we know.
There is still at least one god, whose dealings may imply still having an involvement with Tyria

God-King Joko?

[ugrakarma.9416]

by the POF lore, he's gone... the "realm" is muss because theres no big boss there, aka the God.

[Jaken.6801]

6 hours ago, Rukia.4802 said:

God-King Joko?

Nah, Dwayna has still things to answer to, regarding her involvment with Balthazar.
We also only know from Kormir that she was the "last to go", but Dwayna is a goddess of deception.

Which is kinda interesting, because now the goddess of truth is gone, making it even easier for her to do stuff.

[Fueki.4753]

43 minutes ago, Jaken.6801 said:

Dwayna is a goddess of deception.

Are you sure you aren't mistaking her for Lyssa, the Mesmer patron goddess?

But there is no evidence of any involvement from Lyssa anyway. The most likely event was that Balthazar took the mirror from Abaddon's reliquary in Siren's landing.

 

For all we know, all of them left Tyria.

And I hope Arenanet isn't retconning any more of that, the stuff with Balthazar was already terrible.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

3 hours ago, Jaken.6801 said:

Nah, Dwayna has still things to answer to, regarding her involvment with Balthazar.
We also only know from Kormir that she was the "last to go", but Dwayna is a goddess of deception.

Which is kinda interesting, because now the goddess of truth is gone, making it even easier for her to do stuff.

I'm sorry, what?

[Imba.9451]

6 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Are you sure you aren't mistaking her for Lyssa, the Mesmer patron goddess?

But there is no evidence of any involvement from Lyssa anyway. The most likely event was that Balthazar took the mirror from Abaddon's reliquary in Siren's landing.

 

For all we know, all of them left Tyria.

And I hope Arenanet isn't retconning any more of that, the stuff with Balthazar was already terrible.

All retconning aside, Lyssa being somehow involved with the whole Balthazar plot is hinted at.

1. The Mirror Balthazar uses to take another form. Not really a thing a god of war would pull out his sleeve.

2. Kormir saying, that "even" Lyssa agreed to strip Balthazar of his rank.

3. Balthazar cursing all the gods except Lyssa during his final fight.

 

Obviously, this isn't anywhere near conclusive, but the possibility to use this as forshadowing is certainly there.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Imba.9451

[Jaken.6801]

On 5/25/2021 at 10:25 PM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I'm sorry, what?

Didn't Balthazar get help from Dwayna, using her mirror, etc.?
We never got any more info on what's the link there, if I'm mistaken.

We also only got Kormir's word that the gods are gone, as well as an empty underworld, when we visit it.

[Fueki.4753]

Just now, Jaken.6801 said:

Didn't Balthazar get help from Dwayna, using her mirror, etc.?
We never got any more info on what's the link there, if I'm mistaken.

We also only got Kormir's word that the gods are gone, as well as an empty underworld, when we visit it.

It was Lyssa's mirror.

And since Balthazar had access to Abaddon's reliquary, it's likely he also had access to Lyssa's reliquary and simply took the mirror from there.

 

As long as Arenanet doesn't state otherwise, Kormir's words as the goddess of truth hold more water than any amount of fan theories out there.

[Jaken.6801]

19 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

It was Lyssa's mirror.

And since Balthazar had access to Abaddon's reliquary, it's likely he also had access to Lyssa's reliquary and simply took the mirror from there.

 

As long as Arenanet doesn't state otherwise, Kormir's words as the goddess of truth hold more water than any amount of fan theories out there.

My mistake there.

Then again, we have deception vs truth and yes, Kormir is the godess of truth but she isn't all knowing.

In the end, it's a possible plot thread, nothing more. Wouldn't be the first one that wasn't delved deeper into.

[Teratus.2859]

On 5/19/2021 at 12:48 AM, Pax.3548 said:

It is unclear when did the gods left Tyria, though most agree it was before core game, but the dialogue in the Cathedral of Silence story instance from the seventh reaper makes me think the gods didn't left Tyria back at the personal story, I'll quote him:

 

"The keeper of this shrine has fallen to Zhaitan. Grenth wishes him returned, but I am too weak to perform the task. Destroy the keeper, and I will answer your questions."

 

Why would Grenth want this priest returned to him, if he left Tyria completely? I still feel they began to leave Tyria for good AFTER the personal story or at least during this time.

More of a Duty thing.

The Reapers were basically charged with running the Underworld in Grenths absence but this realm is constantly under threat from other forces such as Dhuum for example and could be threatened by other powerful entities like various Demons and even Mad King Thorn if it became too weakened.
The Mad King has already stolen a piece of it from someone in the past, which we now know as the Mad King's Realm.
 
Grenth would not have left the Underworld to fall into ruin and new, potentially evil leadership, it's too important.
So he tasked  his best and most powerful servants to keep things running and to keep known threats like Dhuum locked up etc.

So the Reapers are still acting on Grenths will even after he left Tyria which is probably the reason for why one would say something like "Grenth wishes him returned," Grenth wouldn't have to be present and verbally command that from his Reapers, they could interpret his will that way for themselves just by following the duties he charged them with.

[Teratus.2859]

On 5/26/2021 at 3:42 AM, Imba.9451 said:

All retconning aside, Lyssa being somehow involved with the whole Balthazar plot is hinted at.

1. The Mirror Balthazar uses to take another form. Not really a thing a god of war would pull out his sleeve.

2. Kormir saying, that "even" Lyssa agreed to strip Balthazar of his rank.

3. Balthazar cursing all the gods except Lyssa during his final fight.

 

Obviously, this isn't anywhere near conclusive, but the possibility to use this as forshadowing is certainly there.

She may have agreed but perhaps not entirely without sympathy.. unfortunately we don't know since we're not privy to the internal politics of Gods lol

But I think there's potential there for Lyssa to have been at least in part pressured into agreeing, or at least playing a more neutral position.
With or without her vote Balthazar was outmatched so siding with him would have probably lead to more conflict, distrust or issues with the other Gods than Lyssa was willing to get involved in.

If they agreed to strip Balthazar without Lyssa on board then the other Gods would have likely become really distrusting of Lyssa too and would probably fear some kind of backlash or retaliation.
And from Lyssa's perspective she'd probably start distrusting the other Gods as well and fear that they may come after her too because they may now consider her a threat or a dissenter.

The Smart move for Lyssa would have been to side with the other Gods even if she disagreed with the decision to spare herself from those problems and then aid Balthazar indirectly as much as she could without jeopardising her own position.
Hence the Mirror.. which I guess she could also claim was "stolen" if ever questioned on Balthazar's possession of it.

That's my best speculation explanation I can come up with.
Lyssa was the only god sympathetic to Balthazar during this event but for her own sake she couldn't help him directly as it would have put her in conflict with the other Gods and would have likely ended with her too being stripped of her power and position just like Balthazar was.

If people are right about the whole Balthazar and Lyssia theories then it definitely opens a door down the road for some story involving Lyssa which could be really cool to explore.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Teratus.2859