Massive Resistance Oversight

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

I cant believe that anet forgot about how important resistance was from this source, and didnt do anything to compensate when resistance got nerfed. In stronghold when you choose Tybalt as your mist champion he drops apples that cleanse condis and grant resistance. Now that resistance is nerfed I have needed to change all my stronghold builds as I dont have the condi defense I used to. Please buff apple drop, this is a massive oversight and is ruining pvp.

[Shao.7236]

Should actually mention that poison has no counter either.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

39 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Should actually mention that poison has no counter either.

Does Mallyx's heal still get neutered by poison? Because if so then this is a hilarious oversight to the bandaid fix to another oversight. 

[Shao.7236]

33 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Does Mallyx's heal still get neutered by poison? Because if so then this is a hilarious oversight to the bandaid fix to another oversight. 

Yes it does. There's no ways to avoid it.

 

I want to also put out there that Breakrazor heals for even less and they didn't restore it after the Soulcleave intervals.

 

Revenant is hilariously running out of options right now, just to say that you have more condition sustain not playing Mallyx as well.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Tybalt was trash even before the change, use Grymm instead.

[Math.5123]

15 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Yes it does. There's no ways to avoid it.

 

I want to also put out there that Breakrazor heals for even less and they didn't restore it after the Soulcleave intervals.

 

Revenant is hilariously running out of options right now, just to say that you have more condition sustain not playing Mallyx as well.

I have a very hard time feeling bad for revenants.

[Shao.7236]

35 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

I have a very hard time feeling bad for revenants.

Have a hard time feeling bad for Heralds that needed Infuse Light to be nerfed for the longest time, I've called for it over the years and they just now decided a few months ago.

 

Revenants however which is already rare enough outside 3 to 4 at best on NA counting me we don't deserve it, as for Renegade, most changes were simple and obvious but it took them around 4 different nerfs before nerfing the right thing on Kalla and Shortbow.

[Math.5123]

9 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Have a hard time feeling bad for Heralds that needed Infuse Light to be nerfed for the longest time, I've called for it over the years and they just now decided a few months ago.

 

Revenants however which is already rare enough outside 3 to 4 at best on NA counting me we don't deserve it, as for Renegade, most changes were simple and obvious but it took them around 4 different nerfs before nerfing the right thing on Kalla and Shortbow.

Last mAT finals on eu had 3 revs in it. It is by no means weak.  The resistance change might bring it a bit more in line. 

[Shao.7236]

54 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

Last mAT finals on eu had 3 revs in it. It is by no means weak.  The resistance change might bring it a bit more in line. 

Core Revenant or not? Don't think they were. More like Herald or Renegade.

[Math.5123]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

Core Revenant or not? Don't think they were. More like Herald or Renegade.

Who cares about if it's core or not. There are parts of the core kit that are busted and currently carrying renegade and Herald, much like core engineer carries holo. 

[Shao.7236]

3 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

Who cares about if it's core or not. There are parts of the core kit that are busted and currently carrying renegade and Herald, much like core engineer carries holo. 

We'd see more of core if it was the case, so I disagree.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

9 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Who cares about if it's core or not. There are parts of the core kit that are busted and currently carrying renegade and Herald, much like core engineer carries holo. 

You can't be serious? If this is true then you should be able to run those core classes and have good results. If they don't but are overtuned when the elites use them, then the elites are the problem. I'm sure @Kuma.1503 can tell you a lot about this theory because it's true. 

 

If core sucks but elites are busted, why are you hitting core and forcing the use of the elites even more?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

9 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Who cares about if it's core or not. There are parts of the core kit that are busted and currently carrying renegade and Herald, much like core engineer carries holo. 

 

Core engineer is underpowered. If holo is overperforming to you, nerfing core is not the solution. 

Same goes for revenant. 

[Master Ketsu.4569]

On 5/18/2021 at 10:16 AM, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Does Mallyx's heal still get neutered by poison? Because if so then this is a hilarious oversight to the bandaid fix to another oversight. 

 

Yep.

 

The wise fix would be to make poison "half-affected" by Resistance. IE having resistance removes the sustain debuff, but you still take damage from poison ticks.

 

 

[Math.5123]

6 hours ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

You can't be serious? If this is true then you should be able to run those core classes and have good results. If they don't but are overtuned when the elites use them, then the elites are the problem. I'm sure @Kuma.1503 can tell you a lot about this theory because it's true. 

 

If core sucks but elites are busted, why are you hitting core and forcing the use of the elites even more?

 

6 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Core engineer is underpowered. If holo is overperforming to you, nerfing core is not the solution. 

Same goes for revenant. 

If there are core elements that helps the elite specs carry, you need to nerf the core aspects. 

 

Look at core engineer, since you brought it up. A way to buff it would be to buff a traitline that isn't currently used by holo. 

Say you buff firearms, or tools, so that holo needs to give up either of the other 3 lines they are currently using. This is how you buff core classes.

An example is looking at compounding chemicals, that trait is somewhat weak on core. But it's an immense sustain tool on holo. So it should be tuned down. It doesn't nerf core much but it's a big slap to holo. (Once again, just an example). You could give that healing back as a minor in say, tools or firearms.

 

Take my main class, guardian. They have nerfed many core aspects of it in the past years because of specs, and I think they've made the right decisions. If no core build is viable right now using permeating wrath, delete it and buff the class elsewhere. 

 

Revenant is an entirely different beast because of how it works with legends and how they are not tied to traitlines.

Renegade is using double core legends while it's traits covers the weakness in the core kits. So this will be harder to balance around, especially considering how rev traits are designed. 

Unlike other classes, they have entire lines dedicated to one archetype. 

Taking guard as an example, if you take zeal, virtues and radiance. The grandmasters in all lines will be one power trait, one condi trait and one support trait. So which traitlines to go on Guard is more open than it is to rev. 

 

So I will leave it up to the devs of how to fix that, as I don't have enough experience with the class to make an educated proposal. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Math.5123
Typo

[Stand The Wall.6987]

46 minutes ago, Math.5123 said:

An example is looking at compounding chemicals, that trait is somewhat weak on core. But it's an immense sustain tool on holo.

 

how is compounding chemicals strong for holo?

[Lucentfir.7430]

Like it or not core traitlines are a big contributing factor why specs certain e-specs are broken by the 'PvP forum standard',  The only way you wouldn't have power crept specs/overperforming specs of existing classes is if E-specs were actually their own class, with new utilites and traitlines.  Many are too shut in their perspective seeing E-specs as the culprit, when really the situation is a lot like chemistry.  Make Gw2 Spvp core specs only already because it's clear the playerbase simply cannot handle it and overwhelmed by it seeing how distraught its become. Keep E-specs for PVE and WvW. 

[Math.5123]

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

 

how is compounding chemicals strong for holo?

I don't know the exact numbers, so correct me if I'm wrong. 

Take Corona burst for example (that skill name didn't age well). Grants 8 might, meaning compounding chemicals heals for its base value x8. Core engineer had this trait balanced around an elixir build where they get boons from utilities. Hence, you barely see any boon generation on its weapon sets. 

Take it one step further and look at prot holo with its conversion. Using holo leap and leaving forge is potentially 6 condis converted to boons, which in turn heals and are extended. 

 

Even if the trait in itself is decent on core, holo just gains soooo much more value from it. 

[Eugchriss.2046]

10 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Say you buff firearms, or tools, so that holo needs to give up either of the other 3 lines they are currently using. This is how you buff core classes.

Holo will take whatever are the 2 best options after holo traitline. Meaning no matter what line you buff, holo will pick it too.

10 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

An example is looking at compounding chemicals, that trait is somewhat weak on core. But it's an immense sustain tool on holo. So it should be tuned down. It doesn't nerf core much but it's a big slap to holo. (Once again, just an example). You could give that healing back as a minor in say, tools or firearms.

lol.

I love how in order to nerf holo sustain, you skip heat therapy and jump right on compounding chemicals. But guess what? You re not alone. Knowing Anet, they ll probably nerf elixir gun #5 to tone down prot holo.

 

Renegade is being carried by shortbow. It has the cheapest energy consumption and the lowest cd of all dps rev weapons. Imagine if it had sword or staff energy/cds...

Edited May 20, 2021 by Eugchriss.2046

[felix.2386]

wanna hear a joke? revenege counter

it has 3 effect, damage increase 20%, grant resistance and copy condition on you to your enemy.

 

now damage increase 20% to no damage is still no damage.

resistance doesnt give condition immune anymore

and the only effect that still work in this trait will kill you trying to keep the condition because resistance doesnt work anymore.

 

2/3 of the trait doesnt work anymore and its a grand master trait.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by felix.2386

[Stand The Wall.6987]

8 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

I don't know the exact numbers, so correct me if I'm wrong. 

Take Corona burst for example (that skill name didn't age well). Grants 8 might, meaning compounding chemicals heals for its base value x8. Core engineer had this trait balanced around an elixir build where they get boons from utilities. Hence, you barely see any boon generation on its weapon sets. 

Take it one step further and look at prot holo with its conversion. Using holo leap and leaving forge is potentially 6 condis converted to boons, which in turn heals and are extended. 

 

Even if the trait in itself is decent on core, holo just gains soooo much more value from it. 

i mean, 5x37=185 which is how much might corona gives. so not so big. add on the other potential 6x37=200, which wouldn't happen that often, most times if would be 3 maybe 4. there is the elixir might from hgh which is 18x37=666. its not really a terribly powerful trait, even when accounting for holo gm and hard light arena.  

[Math.5123]

1 hour ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

Holo will take whatever are the 2 best options after holo traitline. Meaning no matter what line you buff, holo will pick it too.

lol.

I love how in order to nerf holo sustain, you skip heat therapy and jump right on compounding chemicals. But guess what? You re not alone. Knowing Anet, they ll probably nerf elixir gun #5 to tone down prot holo.

 

Renegade is being carried by shortbow. It has the cheapest energy consumption and the lowest cd of all dps rev weapons. Imagine if it had sword or staff energy/cds...

I love how you completely glanced over the  word "example". Obviously nerfing heat therapy, removing the leap finisher from holo leap would be prime targets, I just took an example of how a core trait can be much stronger with the e-spec kit. 

[Dahkeus.8243]

People still play Stronghold?  ANet has been trying to pretend that this game mode doesn't exist for years.

[Spartacus.3192]

1 hour ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

People still play Stronghold?  ANet has been trying to pretend that this game mode doesn't exist for years.

haha was gonna say. As soon as they allowed the option to uncheck stronghold i clicked that so fast. 

[Grimjack.8130]

16 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

 

how is compounding chemicals strong for holo?

lmao how is one of the best traits in the game strong for this spec that makes it even better

H O L Y This is the people you guys waste time arguing with. THIS PERSON. LMAOOO