Matthias after the May 11 balance patch

[Adzekul.3104]

Matthias is absolutely slaughtering pugs after the balance patch. Has anyone killed this fight comfortably? Maybe a few groups perhaps. Let's talk about compositions and strategies.

 

I suppose there are 2 principle reasons for the problems:

1. Boon thief nerf
2. Resistance change (..?)

 

Do we need further balance changes to re-adjust the difficulty of the fight? Some will surely blame PUG player capability, but I think this is a red herring. One objective of the patch was to make some of these fights more accessible (i.e. easier -- although I do not necessarily agree with the goal).

 

Discuss.

 

EDIT to add: I would find it helpful if the System's Team intention was to encourage groups to bring 2 boon thieves to the fight from now on.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Adzekul.3104

[Cyninja.2954]

Matthias was added as encounter to the game on March 8, 2016.

 

Detonate Plasma, which made boonthief a thing was added to the game on February 6, 2018.

 

Matthias was beaten before the implementation of boonthief, I'm sure players will figure out how to beat him again after the removal of boonthief.

[Astralporing.1957]

9 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Matthias was added as encounter to the game on March 8, 2016.

 

Detonate Plasma, which made boonthief a thing was added to the game on February 6, 2018.

 

Matthias was beaten before the implementation of boonthief, I'm sure players will figure out how to beat him again after the removal of boonthief.

Similar with resistance. Sure, it may have existed already, it definitely wasn't very popular yet when i was raiding. I was definitely killing Matt without resistance, and without boonthief. The methods to do that fight well without those two things existed then, and they exist now (in fact, i think that the current alacrity mirage build is going to be great for that, until it gets nerfed).

Edited May 18, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Infusion.7149]

Really?
I joined a no KP group with no comp requirement right after patch just to see what a trainwreck it would be, the largest issue was people not CCing. It wasn't because "we didn't have a boonthief".

You can run any comp with 2 heals , people just need to handle the poisons and the sacrifice (CC).

Edited May 18, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Adzekul.3104]

31 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Matthias was added as encounter to the game on March 8, 2016.

 

Detonate Plasma, which made boonthief a thing was added to the game on February 6, 2018.

 

Matthias was beaten before the implementation of boonthief, I'm sure players will figure out how to beat him again after the removal of boonthief.

You are right of course, but this answer overlooks the changes to the raid population since 2016 and 2018. A lot of new people have arrived in 2020 and 2021 and they do not have the history. And a lot of those people from 2016 and 2018 have left.

 

People CCing instead of greeding is definitely an issue. But also this fight seems to be one of those where people never learn the exact tells for feedback and dodge in particular. This saddens me considering the quality of some of the videos on youtube for the fight.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Adzekul.3104

[Cyninja.2954]

20 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Similar with resistance. Sure, it may have existed already, it definitely wasn't very popular yet when i was raiding. I was definitely killing Matt without resistance, and without boonthief. The methods to do that fight well without those two things existed then, and they exist now (in fact, i think that the current alacrity mirage build is going to be great for that, until it gets nerfed).

Oh good catch, I had completely forgotten about resistance. Good one.

[Cyninja.2954]

Just now, Adzekul.3104 said:

You are right of course, but this answer overlooks the changes to the raid population since 2016 and 2018. A lot of new people have arrived in 2020 and 2021 and they do not have the history.

 

People CCing instead of greeding is definitely an issue. But also this fight seems to be one of those where people never learn the exact tells for feedback and dodge in particular.

That might be, but in this case it is merely a step back from an oversimplification.

 

I mean this applies to everything does it not? Firebrigade composition, far higher damage rotations, etc. I remember times where Gorseval actually required players to to the walls and use the updrafts.

 

The loss of boonthief should encourage players to improve if they are struggling. There would only be an issue if the fight became impossible or significantly harder. Lucky enough, there are still enough things which make it easy enough, worst case taking a heal scourge with plague signet, spectral grasp and golem to carry the cc and cleanse the group periodically.

[Vilin.8056]

This boss was already cheesed by adding a 3rd healer before there's even ever a Boonthief.

 

Simply add a Heal Scourge as a 3rd healer for quick revive, while keeping least one druid in one of your healers for distanced heal will still turns this into an easy fight.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Krzysztof.5973]

Boonthief was good on 3 encounters so they butchered him. Now you just tank your usual chrono/fb comp. You could even take a wheelchair in shape of scourge healer if you have problems surviving. And if you are missing CC you have far bigger worries than just nerfed b thief 😘

[Armen.1483]

Maybe resistance is a problem, but now you can maintain high uptime on resolution there which helps a lot. And don't forget the new condi mirage. I sometimes help a training squad that my guild runs, they usually have trouble killing mathias, but this time they killed it first try. For me personally nothing changed much, only the composition.

[Nephalem.8921]

Heal scrapper with buffed quickness application might be a good carry instead of hfb. Better condi cleanse and can bring quickness. Just needs a tiny bit more base quickness on the trait to allow it to bring skills besides gyros.

My group did it with a druid + healren. It was a lot harder but not impossible. Healren is really bad now though.

[Morokey.8534]

Heal scrapper, tempest, renegade, scourge, druid, firebrand.. just pick 2nd or 3rd healer. We killed him yesterday only with me as druid, it was like ufff, but not that hard even without resistance. Btw every class is able to take extra cleanses and heals so it will always be up to players, comunications and teamplay.

[Infusion.7149]

8 hours ago, Morokey.8534 said:

Heal scrapper, tempest, renegade, scourge, druid, firebrand.. just pick 2nd or 3rd healer. We killed him yesterday only with me as druid, it was like ufff, but not that hard even without resistance. Btw every class is able to take extra cleanses and heals so it will always be up to players, comunications and teamplay.

I wouldn't go with renegade though , soulcleave has been hit with 1s ICD meaning all your heal is from staff when off of Ventari

[Fangoth.4503]

On 5/18/2021 at 5:23 PM, Adzekul.3104 said:

Matthias is absolutely slaughtering pugs after the balance patch. Has anyone killed this fight comfortably? Maybe a few groups perhaps. Let's talk about compositions and strategies.

 

I suppose there are 2 principle reasons for the problems:

1. Boon thief nerf
2. Resistance change (..?)

 

Do we need further balance changes to re-adjust the difficulty of the fight? Some will surely blame PUG player capability, but I think this is a red herring. One objective of the patch was to make some of these fights more accessible (i.e. easier -- although I do not necessarily agree with the goal).

 

Discuss.

 

EDIT to add: I would find it helpful if the System's Team intention was to encourage groups to bring 2 boon thieves to the fight from now on.

 use 2bt ez fix

[Juan.6124]

Conditions can be cleansed and knockdowns can be prevented with stability. You can also knock yourself down on purpose at a moment where it's safe to reset your debuff.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by DirtyDan.4759

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Take a heal scrapper for the cleanse.