Idea: Three Target Cap Week!

[Svarty.8019]

How about changing the target cap to three for an event week?

 

This should as easy as a Find/Replace on the Attacks file or a parsed equivalent. Find 5 replace with 3.

I would expect this could be done very easily, and even if it's not, it's an interesting idea that I think might result in desire for a permanent change.

 

[Infusion.7149]

They managed to break the elementalist earth dagger auto to be infinite range even though it wasn't part of a patch last time.

Do you really want to spend dev time on something like that? Some skills are only split between PVE and PVP/WVW or PVE/WVW apart from PVP.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Make everything have a target cap of 1 xd

[hobotnicax.7918]

3 hours ago, DemonSeed.3528 said:

Make everything have a target cap of 1 xd

That would fix so many things.

[Junkpile.7439]

5 hours ago, DemonSeed.3528 said:

Make everything have a target cap of 1 xd

And all skills would need target

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

How about NO target cap?

[DemonSeed.3528]

How about no target cap, and friendly_fire=on

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

12 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

How about changing the target cap to three for an event week?

 

This should as easy as a Find/Replace on the Attacks file or a parsed equivalent. Find 5 replace with 3.

I would expect this could be done very easily, and even if it's not, it's an interesting idea that I think might result in desire for a permanent change.

 

Why not just say you want to buff zergs?

 

Thats all this would do, it will further buff a zerg and will further limit a smaller skilled group from busting a larger blob. What we need is NO target cap, so these unkillable blobs can actually be pressured by a smaller but skilled bomb use. It would be even better now, because smaller groups before would just kill them selves from retaliation even if the larger blob didn't use any dmg skills, not joking about this, ToF doesn't have a target cap as far as I know and I left one in SWT as a zerg was running in and I jumped out of lords, I had to drop really fast and use RF because as the zerg passed though it retal alone was about to down me. Now with the change to retal not dealing dmg, removing the target cap would make zerg busting a thing. As the smaller group, its already like not having one, because 15 vs a map queue as the caps are now, the 15 will almost insta down, while the map queue will only be tickled by the 15.

 

You do a 3 target cap and many guilds that run now, will 100% not be killable, you will never DPS through their sustain even with the same number of people. Some well comped guilds are already close to this....We don't want more of it.

[Bristingr.5034]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

How about NO target cap?

kitten it, I'm down. Bring on the meteors.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Bristingr.5034 said:

kitten it, I'm down. Bring on the meteors.

People would spread out again. The mist war would become more like an actual war.... what a concept.

[Spartacus.3192]

I would love to see a no target cap. Anything that would make people spread out across the map more would be great. 

 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

7 hours ago, TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

Why not just say you want to buff zergs?

 

Thats all this would do, it will further buff a zerg and will further limit a smaller skilled group from busting a larger blob. What we need is NO target cap, so these unkillable blobs can actually be pressured by a smaller but skilled bomb use. It would be even better now, because smaller groups before would just kill them selves from retaliation even if the larger blob didn't use any dmg skills, not joking about this, ToF doesn't have a target cap as far as I know and I left one in SWT as a zerg was running in and I jumped out of lords, I had to drop really fast and use RF because as the zerg passed though it retal alone was about to down me. Now with the change to retal not dealing dmg, removing the target cap would make zerg busting a thing. As the smaller group, its already like not having one, because 15 vs a map queue as the caps are now, the 15 will almost insta down, while the map queue will only be tickled by the 15.

 

You do a 3 target cap and many guilds that run now, will 100% not be killable, you will never DPS through their sustain even with the same number of people. Some well comped guilds are already close to this....We don't want more of it.

 

9 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

How about NO target cap?

 

This is exactly what most people don't get, that target caps have always been one of the big balance problems and they need to be removed...from every skill. The fact that CMC has been changing all 10 target skills to 5 target is essentially the reason why i believe he doesn't understand how target caps existing are a problem at all. 

[joneirikb.7506]

Remember, by setting all target limits to 3, you include all the buffs as well, including stability. What sort of meta group would you have to run in an organized group in order to make proper use out of that? FB + Scrapper + Damage ? This does limit them as well. If a 15 man group has to consist of 5 FBs, 5 scrappers, and only 5 people to do damage.  This also means that in most situations you can't have more than 2 people healing/buffing the same target, which often means it will be much easier to focus a single target down.

 

The whole argument of "no target limit" being a benefit or hinderance to what type of players, is something these forums has never agreed on. I'd be all for ANet testing it, both no limit, 3 limit, and heck 1 limit. Run each for 1 month each, and let people adapt. It's the only way we're going to see this settled.

[jul.7602]

Awful. We need to get rid of the target caps. 3 man target cap allows a the larger force to easily W-key the enemy.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

9 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

The whole argument of "no target limit" being a benefit or hinderance to what type of players, is something these forums has never agreed on. I'd be all for ANet testing it, both no limit, 3 limit, and heck 1 limit. Run each for 1 month each, and let people adapt. It's the only way we're going to see this settled.

 

Just want to add here, that it is mathematically a benefit, because no target limits allows a system to become scale-invariant, meaning a system can function self similarly at all scales.

 

Just some examples to prove that point

.

Skills like "Warding Rift" and "Shelter" are scale invariant. They can block attacks from all possible sources...up to an infinite number of attacks coming from enemies. This means that these skills are are useful in every single environment whether its a 1v1s, 5v5s, 25v25, 80v80 and on into infinite V infinite. If we imagine what the diversity capacity of this skill is, it would be highly diverse because they can be used anywhere.

 

Skills that target a single target... like "Backstab" and " Long Range Shot" do not scale invariantly at all with anything but 1v1 situations. This is a key reason why you don't see Thieves and Rangers in WvW zergs...because a majority of their available builds are incapable of scaling with the environment.

 

The only reason no target caps had a few problems before way back when, was because scale invariant tradeoffs didn't exist either...because tradeoffs on skills should exist, that scale as the scale of combat increases, so that the risk is also scaling with the value proportionally. Otherwise you get behavior where skills have so much value that people do not even think about using the abilities they just use them as fast as they can. Here's a very simple graph that shows how such a relationship is supposed to look like.

https://imgur.com/t4PBEg8

Edited May 20, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[ArchonWing.9480]

Eh?

I mean that just encourages more 1111111 (since autoattacks are usually capped at 3). I didn't realize spamming 1 was a difficult style of play that needed more encouraging.

Edited May 20, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[lodjur.1284]

No offensive target caps would be a great event.

 

3 Target Cap would be a "way worse lag with smallscale suffering immensely event"

[KrHome.1920]

7 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

No offensive target caps would be a great event.

 

For about one second... until either the servers crash or your (and everyone's) CPU drops to 1 fps.

 

A target cap of 3 would increase the performance of the game, but also mean situationally up to 40% less damage. Bunker Wars incoming!

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by KrHome.1920

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, KrHome.1920 said:

 

For about one second... until either the servers crash or your (and everyone's) CPU drops to 1 fps.

 

A target cap of 3 would increase the performance of the game, but also mean situationally up to 40% less damage. Bunker Wars incoming!

 

Use simple character models.

[lodjur.1284]

1 hour ago, KrHome.1920 said:

 

For about one second... until either the servers crash or your (and everyone's) CPU drops to 1 fps.

 

A target cap of 3 would increase the performance of the game, but also mean situationally up to 40% less damage. Bunker Wars incoming!

 

Scourge had 20 target caps during beta, server was stable. Well same as always. 

 

You do realize that with target caps the game has to calculate who to hit. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[bigo.9037]

6 minutes ago, lodjur.1284 said:

Scourge had 20 target caps during beta, server was stable. Well same as always. 

 

You do realize that with target caps the game has to calculate who to hit. 

He also ignores how this would force a different meta where ppl are not blobbing as much, decreasing the lag.

[lodjur.1284]

18 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

He also ignores how this would force a different meta where ppl are not blobbing as much, decreasing the lag.

Yes.

 

Thank you!

 

Also ignoring how those same zerg fights would last a lot shorter.

 

I would also like to further expand upon this. 

 

Removing AoE caps would make single target skills better by the same logic.

 

People actually spread out (or get annihilated by AoEs), meaning that you hit fewer people with your AoEs making single target more viable. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by lodjur.1284