Why does reaper?

[Bast.7253]

Have one of the highest damages of all of the professions in pvp right now? Combined with stability, a second health bar that barely degenerates, condition consumption for more life force, multiple debilitating conditions, 2 stuns, and ranged and melee options?

I'm just wondering when the REAL problems will be addressed in this game mode.

Like the fact that there are NUMEROUS specs right now that have absolutely no trade-off. 4 necros in every match, because they can face tank everything, pollute an entire capture point, and barely even have to dodge.

This isn't even getting into holo, or guards with non-stop aegis spam.

But no, let's reduce the damage of a bunch of coefficients of random weapons in pve instead of addressing the only content left to do in this game that isn't mind-numbingly boring.

[Shrapnel.7249]

Now to be fair, I’ve only played a couple hundred games w necro (core and reaper, never scourge actually, because I had already moved on), so lemme preface w that. But it reaper feels pretty balanced to me. It’s mass dps, but you have to make sure you are always doing something to earn your shroud. And aside from the reaper 3 skill, you get tossed around like trash in the street. Using the other professions out there I’ve never really feared facing a reaper (save for those boon centric builds where I’m on alert to be corrupted). Their big skills are telegraphed and easily dodged or kited, and you mostly stay out of melee range when they go into shroud. If you play a ranger or an holo, it’s literally a meme watching them try to pin you down while you fling them around.

[Bast.7253]

27 minutes ago, Shrapnel.7249 said:

Now to be fair, I’ve only played a couple hundred games w necro (core and reaper, never scourge actually, because I had already moved on), so lemme preface w that. But it reaper feels pretty balanced to me. It’s mass dps, but you have to make sure you are always doing something to earn your shroud. And aside from the reaper 3 skill, you get tossed around like trash in the street. Using the other professions out there I’ve never really feared facing a reaper (save for those boon centric builds where I’m on alert to be corrupted). Their big skills are telegraphed and easily dodged or kited, and you mostly stay out of melee range when they go into shroud. If you play a ranger or an holo, it’s literally a meme watching them try to pin you down while you fling them around.

Well I've found the stability from freeze to the bone is a tad bit better than running lich. But it's less about telegraph and more about.. okay.. I just dodged Chilled to the bone.. Okay.. I just dodged the fear from shroud 3... but wait.. now I'm out of dodges and I still have axe 2 with quickness or shroud 4 spin to win to deal with, not to mention shroud 5 for a long stun.

There's really not much dodging is going to do when they have so many things that need to be dodged. I suppose you can los axe 2, and you can try to stay out of range in reaper shroud.. but the problem is reapers have so much mobility now that kiting them isn't really an option. And if they're running staff you're going to be dealing with ranged attacks from staff as well as axe.

Also, why they thought giving reaper shroud 4 10 stacks of poison to negate healing ON TOP of the insane damage it does is beyond me. Nobody plays condi reaper in any game mode. Why are you giving it poison? It's like they just can't resist adding needless conditions onto abilities that don't need conditions.

[razaelll.8324]

Reaper is balansed in my opinion. If something need to be looked at thats scourge and holo.

Edited May 19, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Halikus.1406]

Someone is actually complaining about reaper of all the things?

 

Let me get my popcorn, this will be hilarious 😂

[Arheundel.6451]

8 hours ago, Shrapnel.7249 said:

Now to be fair, I’ve only played a couple hundred games w necro (core and reaper, never scourge actually, because I had already moved on), so lemme preface w that. But it reaper feels pretty balanced to me. It’s mass dps, but you have to make sure you are always doing something to earn your shroud. And aside from the reaper 3 skill, you get tossed around like trash in the street. Using the other professions out there I’ve never really feared facing a reaper (save for those boon centric builds where I’m on alert to be corrupted). Their big skills are telegraphed and easily dodged or kited, and you mostly stay out of melee range when they go into shroud. If you play a ranger or an holo, it’s literally a meme watching them try to pin you down while you fling them around.

Necros have access to 1200 range unblockable AoE....a 900 range axe attack that hits like a truck.....a 600 range dash on a 5s CD...a 900 range GS pull that pass through walls...can have access to perma swiftness if so desired and shouts with a 600 radius.

 

It's all fun and giggles when you play against some silver necro with 50 hrs on him...far less so when you face an actual vet using his necro. Let me see you kiting when you're almost perma chilled/crippled or fear lock in place

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Aodlop.1907]

Still not as OP as Weaver.

[Arheundel.6451]

4 minutes ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

Still not as OP as Weaver.

Lol No

Just spinal shiver eats like 40% of the ele HP in one go....haha weaver more OP than reaper...sure in bronze maybe

Edited May 19, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Avatar.3568]

46 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Necros have access to 1200 range unblockable AoE....a 900 range axe attack that hits like a truck.....a 600 range dash on a 5s CD...a 900 range GS pull that pass through walls...can have access to perma swiftness if so desired and shouts with a 600 radius.

 

 

 

 

Thank God reaper doesn't have that all at once

Edited May 19, 2021 by Avatar.3568
Wrong quotet

[Shao.7236]

Reaper can get tossed around and be punished, Scourge can't until the entire population decides to burn all CC's for everything to get soaked into Barrier at minimal effort.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Shao.7236

[razaelll.8324]

26 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Necros have access to 1200 range unblockable AoE....a 900 range axe attack that hits like a truck.....a 600 range dash on a 5s CD...a 900 range GS pull that pass through walls...can have access to perma swiftness if so desired and shouts with a 600 radius.

 

It's all fun and giggles when you play against some silver necro with 50 hrs on him...far less so when you face an actual vet using his necro. Let me see you kiting when you're almost perma chilled/crippled or fear lock in place

 

 

Reaper cannot have all of this things at once , they are distributed on different builds so you have tradeoffs. While holo is much more well rounded and has answer for everything so yea dealing with a good reaper can be hard but dealing with anykind of class controlled by a good player is not an easy task. I sujest to focus on the builds/specs which are really problematic at the moment as scourge or holo.

[Arheundel.6451]

15 minutes ago, Avatar.3568 said:

 

Yeah the only thing it can't have out of that description is GS..the rest pretty much fits all in a single build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAc2ZFYl4SoBA-zpSw0B

Did I miss anything?

[KrHome.1920]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

It's all fun and giggles when you play against some silver necro with 50 hrs on him...far less so when you face an actual vet using his necro. Let me see you kiting when you're almost perma chilled/crippled or fear lock in place
 

Both you and the OP are expected to lose to a reaper veteran. Otherwise Reaper would be underpowered.

[razaelll.8324]

58 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Yeah the only thing it can't have out of that description is GS..the rest pretty much fits all in a single build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAc2ZFYl4SoBA-zpSw0B

Did I miss anything?

I dont know is it me only, but the link does not contain a full build for me. There is no utilitys choosen neither traits.

[Aodlop.1907]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Lol No

Just spinal shiver eats like 40% of the ele HP in one go....haha weaver more OP than reaper...sure in bronze maybe

 

I thought it would be pretty obvious that I was joking when I said that weaver was OP. I guess I wasn't subtle enough.

I'm starting to get why those Reddit folks add "/s" everywhere even when the sarcasm is pretty obvious in the first place.

[Arheundel.6451]

23 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Both you and the OP are expected to lose to a reaper veteran. Otherwise Reaper would be underpowered.

There is no vet necro of any type, even a toddler can start now and become a "vet" within 1hr with specs like this: 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSA4ZP5u0A-zZwAA

 

Or something like this: 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSA4Zfp10B-z5gDA ...maybe with a blood variant

 

Even better the toddler can use this: 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAY6bp9yB-z5gDA

 

Or maybe a MM variant on core/scourge......so what vet? anybody can use a necro and reach gold/plat/ruby whatever within 2 days max, it is why the class is spammed to death in all game modes...instant gratification...no effort....huge reward class design

[Arheundel.6451]

1 minute ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

 

I thought it would be pretty obvious that I was joking when I said that weaver was OP. I guess I wasn't subtle enough.

I'm starting to get why those Reddit folks add "/s" everywhere even when the sarcasm is pretty obvious in the first place.

Well I apologize then but..what else would you expect at this point? Look at these people claiming that necro is balanced and everybody else needs to l2p, it's not like PvP atm is like 100% necro representation and WvW zerg have scourge barrier spam...what you know , now they have also a easy condi spam 40k+ build for the so loved RAIDs....truly a balanced class, so cut me some slack

 

There are actually people who will claim that ele is truly the OP class in this game and necro is balanced...so...

[Arheundel.6451]

37 minutes ago, razaelll.8324 said:

I dont know is it me only, but the link does not contain a full build for me. There is no utilitys choosen neither traits.

You can pretty much choose anything you want at that point, anything but deathly chill and dhuumfire is viable in all  game modes and depends on how you want to play, the build is there to show you how necros can effectively stack all those things in a single meta build

 

-1200 range unblockable aoe - check

-900 range burst on target with no travel time - check

-600 range dash on 5s CD- check

-600 radius CC shout- check

 

You can change the staff for GS and get different effects but the "I go through walls pull when it is a ground targeting attack, which somehow thx to a mix of dev bias and kitten balance can go even up walls from the ground...meanwhile all ele ground targeting skills which work in a similar way, shockwave , get interrupted by wall and certainly can't climb walls because " kitten it you can't be necro" bias

 

But hey we have also skills spinal shiver  that can hit people for 10k dmg while eles in full zerk amulet hit for like 2k dmg on a staff skill while having 1/10 of the sustain of reaper ..always because " kitten it you can't be necro" bias

 

https://imgur.com/XBT2J11

Full zerk staff ele in PvP...meanwhile necro with an offhand boon rip skill deal as much dmg alone..lol what is balance? Let's ask these anet devs who main necro.

 

In the end you have a game where a pvp mode can be full of the same class and people still claim that is balanced...lol

Edited May 19, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Halikus.1406]

Mate...

You can gush on and on endlessly about reaper's skills, ppl do that every time they're trying to make something look OP, but it still doesn't change the fact that this is a L2P issue and that reaper is easily one of the most balanced specs right now.

 

Go learn how to counter it and stop coming to the forums every time you get killed by a class different than yours.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Halikus.1406

[Spellhunter.9675]

52 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

 

-1200 range unblockable aoe - check

-900 range burst on target with no travel time - check

-600 range dash on 5s CD- check

-600 radius CC shout- check

 

Unfortunately, crying for nerf on forum doesn't teach people how to counter reaper. Here is a free tip for forum warriors. You only need 1 button to counter reaper (excluding dodge). Pls, let me know if you need further assistance.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Reaper is fine. The only thing debatable on Reaper is how strong Lich is in 2v2s because the CD gets free reset at the top of each round. Lich in 5v5 is fine.

 

Even Core Necro is fine. Just because one player "Ckod" makes minions look busted, doesn't mean it's actually busted. It's strong in 1v1s but garbage in 1v2s or team fights because it's slow and has no stun breaks. Non minion Core Necro is fine.

 

SCOURGE is the problem. It's nearly as tanky as a Core Necro  but has 100% uptime cycle of mass boon into condi conversion and is a high powered team support to boot. The problem lies within the sustain, and the sustain is coming from Blood Bank/Sanctuary Runes.

[bethekey.8314]

I don't have a particularly strong opinion on this, one way or another.

 

But I see a lot of comments that dismiss OP's points with:

- Reaper gets tossed around (apparently more than other classes?) @Shao.7236@Shrapnel.7249

- X is stronger @Aodlop.1907@razaelll.8324

- Learn to counter it @Spellhunter.9675@Halikus.1406

 

Can you all go into detail about these?

- From what I've seen, Reaper has decent access to stability when it needs it (i.e. in melee). It dashes in, projectile blocking anything, AoE stuns, and does such high damage the enemy's main concern is to get away. Holo has a slightly similar style (darting between range and melee), but had its stability removed.

- Saying X is still stronger is a terrible argument. Things can be overpowered at the same time and they don't necessarily need to be fixed in a particular order.

- PvP improves when people learn how to play. Don't just say learn. If you took the time to respond, teach.

Edited May 19, 2021 by bethekey.8314

[razaelll.8324]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You can pretty much choose anything you want at that point, anything but deathly chill and dhuumfire is viable in all  game modes and depends on how you want to play, the build is there to show you how necros can effectively stack all those things in a single meta build

 

-1200 range unblockable aoe - check

-900 range burst on target with no travel time - check

-600 range dash on 5s CD- check

-600 radius CC shout- check

 

You can change the staff for GS and get different effects but the "I go through walls pull when it is a ground targeting attack, which somehow thx to a mix of dev bias and kitten balance can go even up walls from the ground...meanwhile all ele ground targeting skills which work in a similar way, shockwave , get interrupted by wall and certainly can't climb walls because " kitten it you can't be necro" bias

 

But hey we have also skills spinal shiver  that can hit people for 10k dmg while eles in full zerk amulet hit for like 2k dmg on a staff skill while having 1/10 of the sustain of reaper ..always because " kitten it you can't be necro" bias

 

https://imgur.com/XBT2J11

Full zerk staff ele in PvP...meanwhile necro with an offhand boon rip skill deal as much dmg alone..lol what is balance? Let's ask these anet devs who main necro.

 

In the end you have a game where a pvp mode can be full of the same class and people still claim that is balanced...lol

Mate i play ele, necro, guardian, ranger and revenant in spvp so please dont start with the personal attacks just because i disagree with your opinion. Thank you in advance.

 

Reaper dash is avaliable only in shroud outside of shroud it does not have dash. Axe can be dodged easely same goes for sword skills. Tempest has planty of stability to counter fears and weaver has evade frames for dodging crucial abilities and also has invunurable abilities. I agree that there are specs which need some nerfs (scourge , holo for example )and others which need some  buff (core ele for example) but i just dont agree with you that reaper is OP. If you want to have a constuctive discussion on that topic i am up for it, but if you gonna just start with personal attacks just because i disagree with you then the conversation is pointless.

Edited May 19, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Sigmoid.7082]

3 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

- PvP improves when people learn how to play. Don't just say learn. If you took the time to respond, teach.

Problem is most people don't want to learn. They want to complain that X is OP.

 

[bethekey.8314]

3 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

Problem is most people don't want to learn. They want to complain that X is OP.

Not false.