Add resolution effect to all the resistance source, please

[Rodrick.1942]

I know it's so easy to replace the retaliation to resolution on all existing skills/trait, just replace the code, nothing else. BUT I thought a software team should analyze and adapt the program after big change, but instead you just replace the code and tell us that it's done ?

 

Where is the project manager? where is the head of system designer ? and where is the QA test team ? I remember when I work in ASUS, my QA team leader will always give his opinion when his team find out big issue that missed and need to be fixed. Does this step has been skipped ?

 

The big change of condition and resistance impact this product a lot. Let's just talk about warrior, without resolutions how can a warrior survive in a random and tough situation ? All condi cleanse skill/trait is not good enough to counter condition spam classes.  In the past we had resistance to buy some time, now the last shelter is gone. 

 

I get it that you guys want to make protection as,a key boons to counter strike damage, resolution to condi, that's a really good step, but please review the change carefully.

 

No one like the complain from customer, but it will happen a lot and affect morale if you release the product without 100% quality checks. Rev got resolution after they keep complaining, should warrior have to do the same kitten ?

 

[felix.2386]

even added resolution it would still be hard nerf and some skills shouldnt have the same cast time and CDs

for example healing signet cast time.

 

and revenge counter basically is adept trait if added resolution, revenge counter right now is lesser then adept trait in pvp

Edited May 20, 2021 by felix.2386

[TugboatSteve.3607]

It'd be nice if there actually were any reliable sources of resistance outside of Hardened Armor, which is odd since Hardened Armor also provides strike DR synergy with resistance uptime. More or less impossible to build this apart from the one-off the skill itself provides with 33% uptime (e.g. about 11% condi mit assuming ideal procs without wastage).

Making builds with Warrior is rather frustrating in that sense.

 

And as noted, yes, -33% damage reduction is still a hard nerf versus -100% damage reduction to every single res skill, lololol. Asking for 33% of the value added back seems a mild ask, especially considering the miniscule addition to duration to only one skill (Call of Valor) that requires a trait to make use of.

 

Classes that get the most use of this are obviously geared towards Retal, and warrior is not. This patch does little without a followup post-redesign review of skills after the core mechanic change.

Edited May 21, 2021 by TugboatSteve.3607

[Rodrick.1942]

Well....It's better than nothing 🤮

 

[nthmetal.9652]

 

6 hours ago, TugboatSteve.3607 said:

It'd be nice if there actually were any reliable sources of resistance outside of Hardened Armor, which is odd since Hardened Armor also provides strike DR synergy with resistance uptime

What the actual kitten?
Hardened armor was spiked armor before the patch, and gave retaliation. Resistance was and is granted by:

- Healing Signet

- Beserker Stance

- Featherfoot Grace

- Warhorn, when traited with 5 skill

- Revenge Counter

 

For the points below: I am arguing mainly from the point of view of a WvW warrior. Some of the issues, mainly the lack of damage, does not exist in the same way in PvE.

 

So our sources for resistance were very limited before the patch, and hardly ever really relevant, and now, after the patch they are basically the same, but possibly even more relevant (see below). It is annoying, that warrior lacks a bit in protective abilities considering that it's a melee profession. There is too little access to basically any protective boon:

- stability first and foremost

- protection

- resistance

- resolution

-aegis / generally blocks and reflects

NONE of these are accessible in a way that you can actually rely on them present. Sure, you can get stability on movement skills with strength traitline, and run balanced stance, but one or two stacks are gone like nothing within an instant. Even pulsing it doesn't really help much. And stability is the one big thing you really need to be able to act, and since you need to be in melee to achieve much of anything, this is a big problem.

Maybe it's less so of an issue in non-zerg context, or generally when you're facing many enemies, but you're a warrior. That's a profession that shouldn't struggle as much in outnumbered or mass-combat situations. This is what the profession should be meant for!

This is doubly true, because warrior, in most build variants is far from top damage, even when running full zerker gear! And a profession that is mostly not anywhere near top damage, but needs to be in melee, should have good access to proper protective boons!

Warriors maybe do not need as much access to protection as lower-armor professions, but from a design point of view for a melee profession that is usually far from the hardest hitting in the game, it confuses me.

Resistance is still a big help, as it will allow you to move around; especially when facing bigger numbers, being able to move around is way more important than the 100% damage mitigation to conditions. I'd say this is maybe the least of our troubles. People underestimate, how important the freedom of movement is, and how strong of an effect it is, I think.

 

Resolution is again something that baffles me from a design point of view. At the moment the lack of resolution does not hinder me much, but from a design point of view, a melee heavy class, that is on most build variants far from top damage, should have good access to protective options. And our main source of resolution is hardnered armor. Really?

 

There is access to aegis at all, and quite little to blocks and reflects, but I don't find that as vital. From a design point of view, again for a profession that does far from top damage however, this is baffling. I quite understand that aegis and blocks are probably guardian domain, but something is clearly wrong with warrior as it is at the moment.

Edited May 21, 2021 by nthmetal.9652

[TugboatSteve.3607]

Sorry, I thought that was fairly obviously a typo from mixing up resolution and resistance. Context.

[TheBravery.9615]

warrior in general lacks access to defensive boons without long cooldowns. It's primary defense comes from stances

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

17 hours ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

warrior in general lacks access to defensive boons without long cooldowns. It's primary defense comes from stances

It's primary defenses come from high base stats and the endurance gain from Strength.

[Doomfrost.5728]

Hardened Armor would be better if: "Gain resolution when you block or suffer from a damaging condition." Remove the crit element out of it. At least then the trait makes a bigger impact on damaging conditions rather than seeing it wasted when you get critically struck.  If you want resolution early for the 10% damage reduction portion then you could just bock an attack like normal.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Doomfrost.5728

[crewthief.8649]

Berserker Stance should probably provide both resistance and resolution. Don’t see why Hardened Armor couldn’t provide both protection and resolution on being hit, rather than resolution on being critically hit, which makes zero sense.

[Aaron.1294]

Either remove resistance and add a new (old resistance effect) to berserker stance itself or add resolution and decrease cd to 30 sec

 

[Shao.7236]

The changes to Resistance were pretty stupid, it should have simply remained the same, Anet had gone of their way to nerf duration and ICD's on several things just to have it all changed and now the boon duration doesn't reflect on the new function whatsoever.

 

So many things are broken and lack in their fundamental purpose now, while I do agree that Warrior took a big hit, Mallyx was basically neutered, nothing makes sense in that stance whatsoever nor the trait line outside being DPS for condition.

 

Resolution is a welcome boon over Retribution but Resistance should have remained as is, people had gotten used to it and found ways around it. It's not like whether people do have lot of Resistance that they're not losing on something else either.

[cryorion.9532]

Condition cleanse should be the main condition management method. Relying on one single boon to completely trivialize conditions was just too strong, but mainly because of its uptime and availability. If people could pop like 3 or 5 or more seconds of resistance during fight, completely denying condition effects and damage, then there was lower incentive to actually cleanse them. Grace period for cleansing conditions was relatively long to deal with condis easily. Conditions would also just run out during resistance. Old resistance promoted the "I don't care that I have conditions on me" gameplay.

 

However, Anet didn't adjust all skills that had resistance on them and now they do only 1 part of old resistance (nulifying effects of certain conditions) and don't affect damage aspect of conditions. Which was pretty huge nerf to all skills that were previously used as condition mitigators. So this left us in similar situation as extremely low damage on cc skills, like Wild Blow. You have to use another skill to complement the missing damage/effect, that was removed, without any compensation/buff. Yeah, this sucks.

 

On the other hand, if you want to have really good condition management, you should invest into it and not be heavily carried by 2 boons now, instead of 1. Having resolution paired with resistance is just boon powercreep. You should strive for condition cleanse before anything else, because it is just more consistent now (there is no way to mitigate condition damage completely, anymore).
 

There are (imo) better ideas already, like Cleansing Ire cleansing conditions on burst use and not on landing burst hit. Same with Adrenal Health and other defensive stuff that is related to burst usage.

I would also suggest Cleansing Ire giving additional adrenaline per condition applied on user.

Berserker Stance could remove 1 or 2 damaging conditions per second while the buff is active. While it would still give resistance boon.

[crewthief.8649]

34 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Condition cleanse should be the main condition management method. Relying on one single boon to completely trivialize conditions was just too strong, but mainly because of its uptime and availability. If people could pop like 3 or 5 or more seconds of resistance during fight, completely denying condition effects and damage, then there was lower incentive to actually cleanse them. Grace period for cleansing conditions was relatively long to deal with condis easily. Conditions would also just run out during resistance. Old resistance promoted the "I don't care that I have conditions on me" gameplay.

 

However, Anet didn't adjust all skills that had resistance on them and now they do only 1 part of old resistance (nulifying effects of certain conditions) and don't affect damage aspect of conditions. Which was pretty huge nerf to all skills that were previously used as condition mitigators. So this left us in similar situation as extremely low damage on cc skills, like Wild Blow. You have to use another skill to complement the missing damage/effect, that was removed, without any compensation/buff. Yeah, this sucks.

 

On the other hand, if you want to have really good condition management, you should invest into it and not be heavily carried by 2 boons now, instead of 1. Having resolution paired with resistance is just boon powercreep. You should strive for condition cleanse before anything else, because it is just more consistent now (there is no way to mitigate condition damage completely, anymore).
 

There are (imo) better ideas already, like Cleansing Ire cleansing conditions on burst use and not on landing burst hit. Same with Adrenal Health and other defensive stuff that is related to burst usage.

I would also suggest Cleansing Ire giving additional adrenaline per condition applied on user.

Berserker Stance could remove 1 or 2 damaging conditions per second while the buff is active. While it would still give resistance boon.

I actually like your suggestion for Berserker Stance, like a pulsing condi cleanse. That would certainly be better than what we have currently.

[Shao.7236]

Just gonna have to wait months if not a year until they fix all the oversights.

 

Poison comes in mass and can't be nullify.

[Zekent.3652]

Aaah yes, the overnerfed FC and selfboons removed on berserk bursts lul

[TugboatSteve.3607]

On 5/26/2021 at 10:50 AM, Doomfrost.5728 said:

Hardened Armor would be better if: "Gain resolution when you block or suffer from a damaging condition." Remove the crit element out of it. At least then the trait makes a bigger impact on damaging conditions rather than seeing it wasted when you get critically struck.  If you want resolution early for the 10% damage reduction portion then you could just bock an attack like normal.

I don't necessarily want condition damage reduction when blocking as theoretically I should be able to shout clear existing conditions while blocking, and prevent reapplication by merit of blocking. A lot of the value is diminished. Shield Block lasts 3 seconds, the resolution from Hardened armor only lasts 5, with 3 seconds of overlap. No thanks.

 

Similar to Guard Counter, which provides 3 seconds of Protection when I've already put out a daze for one second preventing strikes in radius and a brief damage immunity. FC provides reduced value by merit of the fact that its abilities do too many things all at the same time that do more or less the same thing, overlapping and providing diminishing returns with more crap you pile on. For example, do I want to slow your attacks when you're already dazed? You only get half the value of slow from Slow Counter. Etc.

 

On 5/27/2021 at 11:43 AM, cryorion.9532 said:

On the other hand, if you want to have really good condition management, you should invest into it and not be heavily carried by 2 boons now, instead of 1. Having resolution paired with resistance is just boon powercreep. You should strive for condition cleanse before anything else, because it is just more consistent now (there is no way to mitigate condition damage completely, anymore).

Alright, how about some form of resolution on a skill that is actually useful, then. The problem is it's such a tiny boon and is completely disproportionate with the uptime possible. The only skill available anywhere for this outside of hardened armor is imminent threat, which is SB locked, provides no synergies with any of the trees, and has a 35 second cooldown with a 5 second uptime. That's a 14% uptime on a 33% condition damage exclusive DR, meaning about a 5% DR spread out over the CD against conditions. With a cast time and few other redeeming features.

 

By contrast, Hardened Armor has a 1/3 uptime with 1/3 DR or 11% condition damage reduction if proc'd on schedule.

 

It's also bizarre that you begin this post by completely acknowledging that the skills affected by the Resistance change have lost 100% of the DR from that component of resistance against condition damage, then suggest that warriors should rely on condition cleanses. Okay, so what's your solution? Should those abilities that provided Resistance now cleanse a condition? If the abilities remain unchanged, they effectively got nerfed hard for no compensation. The only ability where they even changed the duration was Warhorn 5.

Edited May 30, 2021 by TugboatSteve.3607

[cryorion.9532]

1 hour ago, TugboatSteve.3607 said:

It's also bizarre that you begin this post by completely acknowledging that the skills affected by the Resistance change have lost 100% of the DR from that component of resistance against condition damage, then suggest that warriors should rely on condition cleanses. Okay, so what's your solution? Should those abilities that provided Resistance now cleanse a condition? If the abilities remain unchanged, they effectively got nerfed hard for no compensation. The only ability where they even changed the duration was Warhorn 5.

I think people really overestimate 33% condition damage reduction over complete cleanse. You don't want damaging conditions on you. I am not sure why people want something that is just kind of worse protection, instead of focusing more on the cleansing aspect.

 

About those abilities that were nerfed, those could be buffed in other, more meaningful ways rather than getting new condition management, maybe with exception to Berserker Stance and/or traited warhorn 5.

Berserker Stance could potentially pulse also Resolution, and be similar to Balanced Stance which pulses stability and swiftness. However, I don't think 33% condition damage reduction will be that good. You still want to cleanse those conditions instead of tanking them for 4-5 seconds...

On the other hand, giving it condition cleanse (e.g. 1 condi removed per second), I would be very careful not to powercreep this condition cleanse. You can already create anti-condi monstrosities, especially if you can use both defense and tactics.

 

Featherfoot Grace is still imo pretty good as stunbreak with superspeed and for ignoring condition effects, maybe they could reduce cooldown a bit.

 

Imminent Threat is a bad joke. Useless, dead on release skill.

 

Active effect of Healing Signet is big yikes. Just remove its cast time and make it oneshot targeted enemy with unblockable ranged attack. And add mini-nuke effect on it.

___

What I am trying to say is that warrior doesn't really need more Resolution. Instead, skills that got nerfed due to part of Resistance on them being taken away, could be buffed in other meaningful ways and maybe not even related to conditions.

And there is also possibility that these skills won't ever get any buffs because Anet has been "reducing" powercreep, so maybe this is exactly what they want, no compensation needed 🤷‍♂️

[TugboatSteve.3607]

40 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

I think people really overestimate 33% condition damage reduction over complete cleanse. You don't want damaging conditions on you. I am not sure why people want something that is just kind of worse protection, instead of focusing more on the cleansing aspect.

Honestly?

 

Because I ran a full shout build with rune of the soldier and Mending (even played around with Warhorn and the trait in Tactics) and I was pretty alarmed by how I was still getting 6-8 conditions stuck to my forehead with all my cleanses on CD. For whatever reason, even a build geared towards dealing with condition spam seems unable to deal with certain classes ability to reapply conditions. Combined with the fact that there's no way to directly mitigate condition damage other than resolution, and resistance is gone, it seems to take little to come to the conclusion that most classes, especially those that don't have as much cleansing, or warrior builds that don't rely completely on using a boatload of shout skills, and might actually want some utility other than shouts, might want some way to survive the storm of condition plinko.

 

I would certainly like to see a utility bar skill that does something outside of Shake it Off.

40 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

About those abilities that were nerfed, those could be buffed in other, more meaningful ways rather than getting new condition management, maybe with exception to Berserker Stance and/or traited warhorn 5.

That is fine, they just need something. It doesn't make sense to take 100% and make it 0% with nothing in return. Again, there is no direct way to mitigate condition damage other than a cleanse (which is fun when you have 8 conditions on you and they are cleansed in order of application) and resolution.

 

And I tend to have to burn cleanses on things like immobilize effects because I don't use Discipline, and immobilize is usually a death sentence unless you can break the root in a few seconds in arenas.

 

40 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

What I am trying to say is that warrior doesn't really need more Resolution.

I don't get it, you just admitted that Imminent Threat was DoA, and that's the only source of resolution other than Hardened Armor. Compare that to the amount of resolution available to Guardians or Revenants.

 

Is there an actual reason that Warrior as a class cannot have this new boon when it is readily available to many other classes? And when there is a trait in defense specifically designed to synergize with resolution?

Edited May 31, 2021 by TugboatSteve.3607

[cryorion.9532]

12 hours ago, TugboatSteve.3607 said:

Is there an actual reason that Warrior as a class cannot have this new boon when it is readily available to many other classes? And when there is a trait in defense specifically designed to synergize with resolution?

I think of Resolution as Protection. Warrior doesn't have a lot of protection available even if other classes do. And warrior still manages without it (warrior lacks in other areas, instead).

Also, 5 seconds of passive Resolution application that also gives you 10% damage reduction on 15 sec CD seems reasonable + if you get this resolution from other sources, you could have permanent 10% damage reduction and 33% condi damage reduction bonus. Now imagine if you have 100% boon duration. You can get passive 10 sec Resolution alone, from a single minor trait, on 15 sec CD.

If other classes have too much Resolution, that is not warrior's issue. Warrior didn't really have a lot of Retaliation access in the first place. Like 2 sources? Meanwhile others had plenty, like guardian. It is just that Anet didn't bother properly balance Resolution on skills... and simply left durations on old Retaliation values. Balance btw.

[DKRathalos.9625]

Well at this point we know anet is very bad with balance and skillset.

[Parobro.8721]

what a net isnt understanding is that condis are more ranged applicable then power damage, and there fore giving u -33% condi damage reduction does nothing because u can almost never avoid the application, with power i can just move a bit further away and negate all melee damage altogether. adding resolution to resistance inherited traits is a good start, will not fix the issue that condis will get you killed waaaaaay easier then powerdamage across the board in  most situations even when u have resolution and protection.