Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Would people play mirage more after the May 11 and May 25 updates?


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

So buffing mirage and getting more people play mirage was one of the major aims in the May 11 update.

Does everyone think the series of May 11 and May 25 updates help more people play mirage?

 

Even though all the condi class got buffed in the May 11 update, people argued staff mirages did too much damage in raids comparing to axe mirages, other condi, or alac providers "before" that patch note.

Now that staff mirage is nerfed, staff mirage cannot do as near damage as condi RR renegades, even if they sacrifice skills for cc's and boonstrip. Meanwhile, axe mirages, which apparently is assigned as "the exclusive dps option" for mirage for some reason, cannot do as much damage as other condi classes.--Maybe there are a couple of exceptions in raid but that's not the point.
I don't see how the series of May 11 and May 25 updates make people play mirages more than before in raids.

 

Then, outside of raids, axe mirage is fun-to-play but remains much less efficient class in general.
In fractals, disappearing platforms and quickly expanding red circle mechanics give them hard time, while the fast-paced fights don't allow them to reach their highest dps potential.
In open world, mirage lacks an efficient way to target multiple foes, and again enemies die before they can stack condi or even land multiple attacks on because skills (whether it is axe2,3 or staff1,2,3) have long animation.
I really wished May 11 patch, whose one of main aims was to buff mirage, would improve fights in these situations....

Edited by Farball.7260
  • Like 2
  • Confused 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Farball.7260 changed the title to Would people play mirage more after the May 11 and May 25 updates?
27 minutes ago, Farball.7260 said:

 

 


In open world, mirage lacks an efficient way to target multiple foes, and again enemies die before they can stack condi or even land multiple attacks on because skills (whether it is axe2,3 or staff1,2,3) have long animation.
I really wished May 11 patch, whose one of main aims was to buff mirage, would improve fights in these situations....

mirage is really strong in open world, i'm confused.  the only condi weapon that doesnt hit mutiple foes is scepter, axe and staff DO hit multiple foes, and if you're talking just general open world running around, why would anyone play condi anyways then say that enemies die before they can stacks...thats how it suppose to work lol, just play power builds if you wanna zoom through content like that

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Farball.7260 said:

I don't see how the series of May 11 and May 25 updates make people play mirages more than before in raids.

 

What makes you think Anet's target for people playing mirage more was just limited to raids?

Edited by Obtena.7952
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mirage is fine for openworld bosses where things attack relatively quickly.

For trash mobs it's okay due to the staff bounces and axe cleave. For fractals I'd only use it on Sunqua Peak. Elsewhere it is underwhelming for the most part.

Also axe is doing fine , still 36K due to the chaos traitline buff



Anyone who wasn't biased knew staff mirage was getting nerfed after that May 11 patch.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

This 2 button fiesta build is not only viable but still supposedly beats cChrono and Axe mirage dps-wise on 4/5 bosses even with 37% BD while providing might and alacrity kekw. So yes, people will still play it. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I started to test Mirage after the 11 may changes and with high hopes. I tested a staff/staff build. Even being effective it was the most boring thing i ever played. Even with the alacrity, to watch those staff skills on cooldown that much time while do nothing more than a dodge or two after weapon swap and then zzZZzZZzzz was a terrible feeling and mesmer utilities doesn't help to change that feeling.  The axe dps build is near the same, a boring build designed to be stand still in front a boss  with nothing more to do than watch the dps meter. More funny than staff/staff but weak for solo high end content outside raid despite the superior runes of tormenting. Your sustain as Mirage is almost null outside those runes and you are a death weight when suffer channeled stuns or high damage from several sources.  Where is that promised sustain that developers commented?  If they are nerfing the revenant sustain to be in like with their ideal one...  Where are the buffs to those that lack that ideal sustain? Or  we must suppose that the traited staff chaos armor with protection is our new sustain?  That one that even not work with the chaos armor from combos?  Why the protection from Chaotic Transference doesn't work with chaos armor from combos?

 

Watching that they are balancing around raid i can't imagine how badly could end the new specializacions if they design their skills to be stand still in front a boss presing buttons to no other purpose than reach certain dps. What a c@ncer.

 

Even thinking that the alacrity was and is in the wrong place for Mirage and should not be in a staff skill. At least, i a had the idea to build something more funny, smooth and useful,  using three ambush attacks to build enough alacrity for two different weapon sets. Now with the nerf to 2.5s  is not a viable idea as you can't reach enough uptime with three ambush attacks even with a 100% boon duration. More than three ambushes while  wielding a staff is too much and slow.  They only way to achieve the full alacrity uptime is stay with the boring staff/staff build. Not for me and less now that they nerfed it which make its damage lower while still being equally boring to play.

 

It was something interesting to test, now i have nothing more to test and can't find the versatile builds i want. with mesmer. No on the level i like. For make me return to play mesmer they should do at least some of the following changes: 

  • Reduce the the cooldown of the torch skills to match the cooldown of the Sourge's torch.
  • Increase the initial animation speed of the "Confusing Images"  skill of our scepter. It takes the life to fire the channeled damage. It feels clunky. Make the whole skill smother and faster.
  • Make our phantasmal duelist pierce in some way.  Everything can pierce now, the thief pistol, the dragonhunter longbow, ranger bows, engineer rifle, etc.  Less... yes  our phantasmal duelist.
  • Give us the promised sustain for Mirage. Where is it?

 

That will make me find a build in the line i like. Even some including the staff.  Well, my Mirage lasted few hours in active lol,  but he has returned to unemployment. I had the same feeling with the Scrapper. The added quickness was nice on paper, but include it with the gyros as a mechanic make it feel clunky even with the increase of the quickness duration from 2 to 2.5s in the Kinetic Accelerators trait.  Make the build too narrow and you have to focus all time on it while playing, not nice to play, clunky design.

 

For now, time to review my renegade build again after the nerfs received today.  I noticed it a lot in Drizzlewood Coast this afternoon, even without watch the patch notes. I had a strange feeling of weakness compared with other days.  Now i understand it, they nerfed the sustain even if i had an offensive build not using the defensive traits out of those that give sustain in the Devastation trait line.  Now rethinking how to improve the build to have enough sustain without lose too much damage.  You need it to solo high end content like today with empty maps there.  With an axe build like in the above video you will we downed in no time or running like feared chicken while pursued.  At least the renegade is still funny to play and not 1111 dodge 1111.  But time to adapt the build to the nerfs,  and then it will the time to test the core necro and scourge and later dragonhunter and  firebrand.

 

 

Edited by Zoser.7245
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Zoser.7245 said:

More funny than staff/staff but weak for solo high end content outside raid despite the superior runes of tormenting.

Learn 2 play issue.

 

Mirage properly built already has an evade uptime of 60% in pve. If you can't cut it in open world, then go trailblazer. The sustain of this class is absolutely fine for pve. In fact, it has some of the most unkillable builds out there.

2 hours ago, Zoser.7245 said:

Where is that promised sustain that developers commented?  If they are nerfing the revenant sustain to be in like with their ideal one...  Where are the buffs to those that lack that ideal sustain? Or  we must suppose that the traited staff chaos armor with protection is our new sustain?  That one that even not work with the chaos armor from combos?  Why the protection from Chaotic Transference doesn't work with chaos armor from combos?

Any class pales sustain wise to revenant, besides maybe condi scourge. 

2 hours ago, Zoser.7245 said:

 

Watching that they are balancing around raid i can't imagine how badly could end the new specializacions if they design their skills to be stand still in front a boss presing buttons to no other purpose than reach certain dps. What a c@ncer.

They are balancing around high end performance. You need practice to achieve that.

2 hours ago, Zoser.7245 said:

Even thinking that the alacrity was and is in the wrong place for Mirage and should not be in a staff skill. At least, i a had the idea to build something more funny, smooth and useful,  using three ambush attacks to build enough alacrity for two different weapon sets. Now with the nerf to 2.5s  is not a viable idea as you can't reach enough uptime with three ambush attacks even with a 100% boon duration. More than three ambushes while  wielding a staff is too much and slow.  They only way to achieve the full alacrity uptime is stay with the boring staff/staff build. Not for me and less now that they nerfed it which make its damage lower while still being equally boring to play.

It's called boon duration. The stat goes as far as 100%. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing that shocks me (in the "but not really, why should I be surprised about them completely messing up mesmer AGAIN" sense) about the may 25 update is that the nerf to clones using Winds of Chaos is basically nerfing every staff mesmer build except the one that they actually view as a problem.

 

Why? Because the staff/staff alacrity build is based on using Mirage Cloak about as often as humanly possible, so their clones are probably using Chaos Vortex more often than not. Staff chronos, staff core mesmers, staff new specialisations, even staff-using mirages that have a normal amount of dodging rather than building their entire build around using Mirage Cloak as often as possible... those are the ones being hit by the nerf to staff clones.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The thing that shocks me (in the "but not really, why should I be surprised about them completely messing up mesmer AGAIN" sense) about the may 25 update is that the nerf to clones using Winds of Chaos is basically nerfing every staff mesmer build except the one that they actually view as a problem.

 

Why? Because the staff/staff alacrity build is based on using Mirage Cloak about as often as humanly possible, so their clones are probably using Chaos Vortex more often than not. Staff chronos, staff core mesmers, staff new specialisations, even staff-using mirages that have a normal amount of dodging rather than building their entire build around using Mirage Cloak as often as possible... those are the ones being hit by the nerf to staff clones.

wait they nerfed staff clone autos?
I just assumed it was clone ambush as its the only thing that made sense lol.
3Head from anet

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hmm, i don't see any drastic nerf on Staff ... Just #2 clone get it's duration reduced to 2 seconds and that's it. Not a big deal. It's just a 2% up to 5% overall dmg loss, am i right? Luckily the Ambush and auto attack's dmg stays untouched. Anyway if you want to get full benefits from staff you need to stay in melee range to get buffs from AA and from the staff #5 or #2 into #5 to get Chaos armor etc., so i don't see a reason why people have been complaining about "overpower ranged weapon", because Staff is certainly not a range weapon if you want to get full benefits from it.

Edited by Sifu.9745
Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

wait they nerfed staff clone autos?
I just assumed it was clone ambush as its the only thing that made sense lol.
3Head from anet

Yeah, you'd think that, because that would make sense. But nooooo. Winds of Chaos is the staff auto. Chaos Vortex is the ambush.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The thing that shocks me (in the "but not really, why should I be surprised about them completely messing up mesmer AGAIN" sense) about the may 25 update is that the nerf to clones using Winds of Chaos is basically nerfing every staff mesmer build except the one that they actually view as a problem.

 

Why? Because the staff/staff alacrity build is based on using Mirage Cloak about as often as humanly possible, so their clones are probably using Chaos Vortex more often than not. Staff chronos, staff core mesmers, staff new specialisations, even staff-using mirages that have a normal amount of dodging rather than building their entire build around using Mirage Cloak as often as possible... those are the ones being hit by the nerf to staff clones.

Yeah this is what I don't get - staff auto only nerf, affects core/chrono/future espec, but doesn't have that much affect on IH mirage using clone ambush all the time.

 

I could sort of see they want ambushes to be impactful - but again this is moving back towards just dodge and let clones do the work for you (only change from past is incentive for mesmer to cast ambush themselves for the boons, which at least is good).

 

Sure 5 seconds was ridiculous for clones to be applying, but chopping it down to 2 seconds seems overkill. 3 seconds would have at least allowed some flexibility for other specs other than only IH mirage with non stop ambush.

 

But staff ambush could have also been dealt with similarly and shifting more damage to the player's ambush, so it really rewards the player for landing the ambush for damage.

 

Possibly they could have buffed staff 3 for once, by taking that damage removed from staff clone autos and giving some of it to the iwarlock.

 

And lol at the alacrity - so in pve we have 2 dodge, 2.5s alacrity and in wvw 1 dodge 3s alacrity. Seems like no intention to ever change this "skill split".

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Learn 2 play issue.

 

Mirage properly built already has an evade uptime of 60% in pve. If you can't cut it in open world, then go trailblazer. The sustain of this class is absolutely fine for pve. In fact, it has some of the most unkillable builds out there.

I use an almost full viper build with my Mirage without any problem.  What i said is that while going full offensive in both professions, the build based on the axe as a main hand weapon with the mirage can be wiped out or downed more often that the one i play with my revenant when you can't prevent the damage in extreme situations. Once you are out of your defensive resources like Mirage cloak,  Distortion, etc, and why not also disabled, then there is nothing more you can do. Tormenting runes helps if your illusions are still hitting their target but they die if their target dies and then you are done if you are still unable to use a skill that let you get out of that mess.  In a similar case with revenant, if you know your skills and traits you can adapt the sequence you use them playing it in a way that even being disabled and out of energy, when all seems lost, you will often receive the sustain from  the effects of your previously used skills  to survive enough time to recover the energy needed to get out of that situation.   Of course, a few times you will be done too.  But i noticed that difference between both builds is in favor of the revenant due to its extra sustain. At least before the latest nerfs. That doesn't means that mesmer can't be built with almost an inmmortal build adding the enough defensive things and/or the weapons that let you acomplish it better. Even less killable than Revenant with the help of the illusions. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Any class pales sustain wise to revenant, besides maybe condi scourge. 

Probably that is the reason i like play it plus it's shortbow, a ranged weapon that i really like.  But the change to the resistance  in the 11 may patch already made my build weaker and now the nerf to the Battle Scars by 1/3 lower base healing too, that is a lot, a 33.3% nerf.  I'm not happy because although i understand that i could stack several defensive traits i prefer go offensive and get the sustain doing damage. So my build is now a lot weaker than before and i really don't  want to go with defensive and passive traits to survive. I will have to do some test and watch if i still want to continue with it and also test something new with the Scourge.

 

I know that i can kill things with a Mirage staff build that i can't with Renegade. And survive in some situations that Renegade can't. Our illusions help to survive. The mesmer's staff by itself increase surviability due to the weapon design and fast and often kitting capability,  you can also go trailblazer, etc, like you say.  But go trailblazer is something i dislike due to kill slower, the extra burst of an hybrid build is noticeable and nice to have when you use a fast weapon or use some skill that hits hard.  And that even being one of those who prefer a build that can survive and be all time in combat before a build that makes you lose the time running from the tp to he combat again if you die with it.

 

With the change in the staff I saw the oportunity to find a  new fun build for my mirage. The mesmer's staff was too slow previously but now is a lot nicer to use. Very effective although i need to test it after the last nerf, i'm sure it should still be strong, the easy might stacking helps a lot plus the alacrity. Also great that they lowered the cooldown of the chaos storm in pve, they should do the same with torch skills, praying for it and/or some of the changes i mentioned above in my previous post.  But, despite the changes, i still find the staff/staff boring.  Maybe for that reason i'm angry, it would have being amazing combine a staff with other different weapon set and still be able to maintain the alacrity full time after three ambushes while wielding the staff before swap weapons.  I really wanted to test something like that and watch the final result. Even using Crystal Sands for the third ambush that i feel slow and not liking how Mirage Mirrors work. But even if  Illusionary Ambush is more of my style to gain Mirage Cloak, being teleported to a random place that can be a death warrant is even worse than having to tolerate the Mirage Mirrors.  XD

 

Perhaps i'll try to find something different with the staff that i can't visualize for now, but it seems that i'll have to be patience and wait until we get something new that let me find the type of build i will like to play with my mesmer and with the weapons i have fun. Maybe a future update comes with the changes that make it possible. Although that does not change the premonition I have that we will be given a healer as a future specialization. I hope I am wrong. lol

 

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

It's called boon duration. The stat goes as far as 100%. 

Sure, no doubt.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The thing that shocks me (in the "but not really, why should I be surprised about them completely messing up mesmer AGAIN" sense) about the may 25 update is that the nerf to clones using Winds of Chaos is basically nerfing every staff mesmer build except the one that they actually view as a problem.

 

Why? Because the staff/staff alacrity build is based on using Mirage Cloak about as often as humanly possible, so their clones are probably using Chaos Vortex more often than not. Staff chronos, staff core mesmers, staff new specialisations, even staff-using mirages that have a normal amount of dodging rather than building their entire build around using Mirage Cloak as often as possible... those are the ones being hit by the nerf to staff clones.

 

I think the idea was to make using the auto-attack less advantageous in order to make the gameplay less simplistic and boring, since now for Mirage there might be better skill alternatives/rotations to use than just auto-attack in between ambush-as-available attacks.

 

Reducing staff auto damage also opens up the possibility of increasing damage on other more interactive skills, which could apply to all mesmers using staff.

Edited by TheAgedGnome.7520
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zoser.7245 said:

With the change in the staff I saw the oportunity to find a  new fun build for my mirage. The mesmer's staff was too slow previously but now is a lot nicer to use. Very effective although i need to test it after the last nerf, i'm sure it should still be strong, the easy might stacking helps a lot plus the alacrity. Also great that they lowered the cooldown of the chaos storm in pve, they should do the same with torch skills, praying for it and/or some of the changes i mentioned above in my previous post.  But, despite the changes, i still find the staff/staff boring.  Maybe for that reason i'm angry, it would have being amazing combine a staff with other different weapon set and still be able to maintain the alacrity full time after three ambushes while wielding the staff before swap weapons.  I really wanted to test something like that and watch the final result. Even using Crystal Sands for the third ambush that i feel slow and not liking how Mirage Mirrors work. But even if  Illusionary Ambush is more of my style to gain Mirage Cloak, being teleported to a random place that can be a death warrant is even worse than having to tolerate the Mirage Mirrors.  XD

 

Perhaps i'll try to find something different with the staff that i can't visualize for now, but it seems that i'll have to be patience and wait until we get something new that let me find the type of build i will like to play with my mesmer and with the weapons i have fun. Maybe a future update comes with the changes that make it possible. Although that does not change the premonition I have that we will be given a healer as a future specialization. I hope I am wrong. lol

 

Sure, no doubt.

One thing I've been wondering if, rather than applying alacrity to staff ambush specifically, it would have been better to apply it to Dune Cloak. Make it a trait that means that when you Mirage Cloak, you grant alacrity to yourself and your allies within a certain radius regardless of which weapon you're using... but you have to give up Infinite Horizon to do so.

 

That way, the build would naturally have reduced DPS over a more selfish mirage build because you don't have your clones using ambush skills at all, but the build would still be useful enough that Infinite Horizon would finally have some credible competition. And you wouldn't have to run staff/staff to keep Alacrity up.

1 hour ago, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

 

I think the idea was to make using the auto-attack less advantageous in order to make the gameplay less simplistic and boring, since now for Mirage there might be better skill alternatives/rotations to use than just auto-attack in between ambush-as-available attacks.

 

Reducing staff auto damage also opens up the possibility of increasing damage on other more interactive skills, which could apply to all mesmers using staff.

Except that it's the autoattack on clones that got nerfed. You can be as active as you like, but staff clones are always going to be throwing the same autoattack out... unless you're a mirage, particularly a mirage that builds around having as many dodges as possible. The problem I'm highlighting here is that they described a particular build as overperforming... and then applied a nerf that hits the overperforming build less than literally every other staff mesmer build you could imagine.

Edited by draxynnic.3719
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Except that it's the autoattack on clones that got nerfed. You can be as active as you like, but staff clones are always going to be throwing the same autoattack out... unless you're a mirage, particularly a mirage that builds around having as many dodges as possible. The problem I'm highlighting here is that they described a particular build as overperforming... and then applied a nerf that hits the overperforming build less than literally every other staff mesmer build you could imaging.

 

To me, the build was overperforming due to the torment changes and Winds of Chaos autoattack changes. I consider clone staff autoattacks to be components of the mesmer staff autoattack. So, reducing autoattack output via clone autoattack WoC output reduction makes sense to me, since it leaves player WoC intact. 

 

In addition, since Anet says "staff is currently overperforming as a boon support weapon", then it seems they think staff across all builds should be a boon support weapon, not just for Mirage; therefore, it is intentional that it should be a staff-specific change, not a Mirage-specific change.

 

The question is whether their original May 11 intent to make Mirage more desirable as a support spec in higher-level groups will be nullified by the May 25 change.

Edited by TheAgedGnome.7520
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

 

To me, the build was overperforming due to the torment changes and Winds of Chaos autoattack changes. I consider clone staff autoattacks to be components of the mesmer staff autoattack. So, reducing autoattack output via clone autoattack WoC output reduction makes sense to me, since it leaves player WoC intact. 

 

In addition, since Anet says "staff is currently overperforming as a boon support weapon", then it seems they think staff across all builds should be a boon support weapon, not just for Mirage; therefore, it is intentional that it should be a staff-specific change, not a Mirage-specific change.

 

The question is whether their original May 11 intent to make Mirage more desirable as a support spec in higher-level groups will be nullified by the May 25 change.

That goes against your earlier statement that the idea was to get players to autoattack less. If they want players to use other skills more, it WOULD be the player WoC that you nerf.

 

As for staff in general... perhaps, but in context, it's Chaos Vortex changes that are causing it to overperform. They haven't changed Winds of Chaos bounces on allies, although the cooldown reduction on Chaos Storm does make boon support from that a little better. Possibly more significantly, nerfing the condition damage on clone WoC doesn't nerf the boon output from staff clones. Even more importantly, there's one staff build that's really being used for "staff boon mesmer" right now... and that's designed to have clones using WoC as infrequently as possible, and is therefore the staff build that's been nerfed the least. I'm pretty sure that people running staff on chrono or core mirage are still running it because it's the only condi weapon beside scepter, not because WoC and Chaos Storm are awesome boon support skills.

 

Looking at WoC as it currently stands, I suspect the actual problem is that they ended up with staff clone WoC being as strong as the mesmer's own WoC, and that IS a problem - while condi clones are generally better than sword or greatsword clones, condi clones are still supposed to deal less damage than the mesmer's own autoattack. But that's not what they said. What I suspect might have happened is that the clone WoC were always supposed to have the reduced duration, they forgot to apply it, and don't want to admit that they messed up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

One thing I've been wondering if, rather than applying alacrity to staff ambush specifically, it would have been better to apply it to Dune Cloak. Make it a trait that means that when you Mirage Cloak, you grant alacrity to yourself and your allies within a certain radius regardless of which weapon you're using... but you have to give up Infinite Horizon to do so.

 

To be honest, I wondered the same. It seems to be a way more elegant solution. Giving up IH would balance it out nicely because it reduces the overall DPS. If not, the damage part could be scrabbed/lowered. I do see two potential issues, though: First, it could turn out to be way more flexible than Alacrity from Chrono (haha...) - personally I don't like a scenario where Chrono is less efficient at providing Alacrity/Quickness than Mirage. Second, ANet might want to buff Staff specifically. However, imho this then should have been done via base Mesmer (e.g. share Protection when gaining Chaos Armor or something along the line... looking at you... Chaotic Transference), not Mirage.

 

In the end, I dislike Alacrity on Mirage either way. Superspeed, sure. Protection or Weakness, sure. Heck, even self-Quickness or Alacrity would be kinda okay. But groupwide? Conceptially a no no from me because of Chrono. It just feels like they wanted to create an alternative to Alacrity-Renegade without making Chrono the BIS again or alienate Quickbrand too much. And even then, I'd rather see better Alacrity on Chrono (incl. nerfs to Quickness) and some form of Quickness on Mirage instead.

 

I decided not to bother about more theorycrafting until we get a first look at the new e-specs. Maybe stuff will make more sense then. Unlikely when it comes to Alacrity... but who knows.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Looking at WoC as it currently stands, I suspect the actual problem is that they ended up with staff clone WoC being as strong as the mesmer's own WoC, and that IS a problem - while condi clones are generally better than sword or greatsword clones, condi clones are still supposed to deal less damage than the mesmer's own autoattack. But that's not what they said. What I suspect might have happened is that the clone WoC were always supposed to have the reduced duration, they forgot to apply it, and don't want to admit that they messed up.

They should have streamlined Clone attacks the moment they introduced Mirage and Ambush attacks. Meaning, no damaging conditions on Clone attacks, only impairing or debuffing effects. And then redistribute the lost damage to other weapon skills (preferably non Phantasm ones...).

 

People could argue that this makes it easier to identify the real Mesmer in a PvP context which is true. But I believe this to be a reasonable sacrifice. The current set up is just way too imbalanced in too many situations and promotes lazy gameplay in condition builds. It also somewhat makes Ambush attacks less meaningful.

Edited by Xaylin.1860
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, otto.5684 said:

From pve standpoint, staff surely was over buffed. I think the changes are fine. It is still a good dps and support weapon. Mirage, as a whole, is very good in pve. 

 

But low tier in WvW, which is my main mode. Too many "red circles of doom" to play Mirage. I don't always solo roam, I dip in and out of the zerg as needed to support scouting/defending. Mirage might be ok for roaming/dueling, but it's useless if you're even thinking about team play.

 

And it will be low tier as long as you get punished for an elite spec by having a core gameplay mechanic, dodging, halved by taking the spec. It's like saying since Guardian has such easy access to Aegis and Stability they should only have 1 dodge.

 

No, 2 dodges is baseline for everyone and that should always be the case.

Edited by Kylden Ar.3724
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...