Anet wtf is this has you balance team lost their collective minds?

[ArthurDent.9538]

A slight reduction to damage from the Devastation specialization is also being made to help preserve competitiveness and the diversity of options between Devastation and Invocation.

 

Unsuspecting Strikes: Reduced bonus strike damage from 25% to 20% in PvE only.

 

Why the kitten are you nerfing the power damage from the power dps trait-line for the lowest power dps class in the game? I don't care that you want to make invocation the higher dps version of condi renegade but this is one of the dumbest ways you could possibly go about doing so directly nerfing all dps power revenant builds which are all underperforming. In my opinion your balance patches have been trash for the past year or more and this change while minor in the grand scheme of things is inconceivably dumb.

 

Also why are you pushing renegade to be the one and only elite spec for Revenant in all game modes, seriously a lot of us don't like renegade, we like herald, I consider renegade a trash design and Kalla is a total eyesore that was probably intended to be so clunky and unfun to play that it couldn't possibly be op in pvp allowing the numbers could be pumped to finally give rev a meta pve build. It worked but what also happened is now the only end game pve elite spec we have is the clunky unfun renegade while herald is just being left in the dust and ignored unless it is ok at something then it gets nerfed or renegade is too good at something then core traits that herald can also use get nerfed. And Renegade just keeps getting pushed to be the be all end all for revenant, it is currently better than herald for condi dps, power dps, boon support, and heal support (albeit heal renegade got dumpstered pretty hard by the soulcleave change, its still better than heal herald in general) and its stronger in pvp as well (not going to say anything definitive about wvw as I believe that game mode has the most poorly optimized meta builds of the 3 game modes, people still run hammer herald in zergs but I find shortbow renegade simply stronger unless you have 3-4 hammer heralds in voice coms synching their spikes, and outside of abusing tormenting runes, renegade does small to mid scale fights way better than herald). The only niche herald has left is stacking damage reduction modifiers to make insanely tanky builds which got hot fixed with this patch anyways so case in point to ignoring where herald struggles only pay attention to nerf if it is good at something.

 

Herald has 3 different direct damage modifiers tied to it and glint has 3 facet consume skills that do decent direct damage this is a good basis for making a viable mid tier power dps spec with just a small amount of number tweaking but for some reason you people are so adamant in your refusal to do so. I'm getting very frustrated at this point it is like you are deliberately trying to drive me and all the people who like herald and not the abomination that is renegade away from the game. Please stop trying to force renegade down our collective throats and give herald some love, you aren't going to make me start liking renegade by nerfing core and herald more and more its just making me annoyed and apathetic towards playing your game.

 

Side note, I don't really care about the battle scars healing nerf since it was a lot of extra sustain for a dps trait line which should be a more high risk high reward kind of trait line, of course every source of battle scars is tied to a major trait which competes against a pure dps trait so battle scars shouldn't be relevant for devastation dps builds but for some reason dance of death does more dps than swift termination in most scenarios which is really dumb. Fix this not by nerfing dance of death that would just be more salt in the wound, realize that swift termination is a damage multiplier while dance of death is a damage adder, so if power revs actually did more damage in general, the bonus from swift termination would grow to be higher while the damage from dance of death would remain static allowing swift termination to be the high risk/high reward option between the 2 traits.

 

Also I don't care that EoD is probably going to give rev a power dps e-spec in the coming months, I still want Herald to not just be a non choice as there are plenty of fun mechanics tied to it and some very cool animations mainly chaotic release and infused light.

 

Way smarter alternative to the stupid unsuspecting strikes nerf: reduce vulnerability stacks on ice razor's ire from 2 to 1 which halves the amount of battle scars generated by that skill in conjunction with dance of death from 40 to 20 dramatically reducing the damage out put and sustain of devastation renegade without hitting core/herald, can even double the duration of each vuln stack to keep the overall vulnerability stacking capabilities somewhat consistent. Hire me anet.

Edited May 26, 2021 by ArthurDent.9538

[Infusion.7149]

To put this into perspective the DPS was not that bad after May 11 patch:

That said, it is running full berserker, so not much if any alac support is given out with this build.

[ArthurDent.9538]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

To put this into perspective the DPS was not that bad after May 11 patch:

That said, it is running full berserker, so not much if any alac support is given out with this build.

That dps is quite good, but its renegade, I hate renegade, I'm sick of renegade being the top revenant build in almost every situation for pve especially exacerbated by how herald has been more or less killed off in pvp with renegade being the one meta build we have left there.

[Virdo.1540]

1 hour ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

That dps is quite good, but its renegade, I hate renegade, I'm sick of renegade being the top revenant build in almost every situation for pve especially exacerbated by how herald has been more or less killed off in pvp with renegade being the one meta build we have left there.

BUMP

 

Also if renegade is too strong, its time to NERF RENEGADE, not core rev and herald.  Anet keeps doing the same mistake. 

It continues kicking Herald and core rev players until they are forced to play renegade, another profession (that may not make fun at all) or simply quit gw2.

 

The 10man facet change was the ONLY real good thing that helped heralds being playable & accepted in group content (with a really toxic community). 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Virdo.1540

[Jagerbomber.1953]

yes I agree with everything you have written

[Thornwolf.9721]

I've been running core Rev and it preforms better than herald; That said though It takes way more effort than Renegade which is just a stronger rev who doesn't even nessacarily have to weapon swap. I hated renegade, I've always hated renegade and now its being pushed to be the only form of revenant that A-net seems ok with allowing to be good within any mode.

If my core rev build which is a hybrid build gets nerfed, or the traits get dumpstered (Which is why I've been so silent about it when people ask. I dont want more people running it because then I know it will get nerfed, and Ill be pushed toward renegade more) Then Ill just roll something else. Might go guardian since they don't seem to get hit with the same issues, or maybe elementalist.... who again doesn't have this issue.

In reality though Ill probs just quit until the expansion, see what it has to offer in the trailers and then either shrug it off and not come back or get back into it. If we get some weeb spec or some dumb Kalla 2.0 electric boogaloo Im just gonna call it quits lmfao

Edited May 26, 2021 by Thornwolf.9721

[Hobyrimvrahms.6910]

Just curious, can you still make 100% damage reduction (ie handkiting Deimos) using the resolution+traits combo now?

[Nephalem.8921]

6 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

A slight reduction to damage from the Devastation specialization is also being made to help preserve competitiveness and the diversity of options between Devastation and Invocation.

 

Unsuspecting Strikes: Reduced bonus strike damage from 25% to 20% in PvE only.

You do realize that this is a 1% nerf right? Actually even below 1%. dmg reductions should never be additive. reaching 100% reduction was just ridiculous.

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

There was no need to even buff Devastation with "% All Damage" in the first place anyway.  Retribution I can somewhat understand since it's "the tanky traitline" and therefore more universal, but Devastation is clearly the power dps line.  I have ZERO idea why they thought it needed condi modifiers to begin with. 

What's worse is that one bad buff will now lead to further nerfs for the entire line.  They've already missed the mark entirely with this nerf and I'm sure they'll miss the mark again when they try it a second time.  Unsuspecting Strikes isn't even a major contributor for why Condi Ren can utilize Devastation anyway; it's entirely because of the new % All Damage and the huge synergy between Battle Scars and Icerazor.  No one is taking the time to truly understand why Rev functions the way it does and it shows.

Edited May 26, 2021 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[lodjur.1284]

3 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

There was no need to even buff Devastation with "% All Damage" in the first place anyway.  Retribution I can somewhat understand since it's "the tanky traitline" and therefore more universal, but Devastation is clearly the power dps line.  I have ZERO idea why they thought it needed condi modifiers to begin with. 

I mean it's funny you argue devastation is a power only line and at the same time arguing Herald is a condi line.

 

Devastation was used on condi core back before PoF. (PvE ofc)

3 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

What's worse is that one bad buff will now lead to further nerfs for the entire line.  They've already missed the mark entirely with this nerf and I'm sure they'll miss the mark again when they try it a second time.  Unsuspecting Strikes isn't even a major contributor for why Condi Ren can utilize Devastation anyway; it's entirely because of the new % All Damage and the huge synergy between Battle Scars and Icerazor.  No one is taking the time to truly understand why Rev functions the way it does and it shows.

 

I mean you're not wrong but still, the hypocrisy is kinda funny

[Katary.7096]

14 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

A slight reduction to damage from the Devastation specialization is also being made to help preserve competitiveness and the diversity of options between Devastation and Invocation.

 

Unsuspecting Strikes: Reduced bonus strike damage from 25% to 20% in PvE only.

 

Why the kitten are you nerfing the power damage from the power dps trait-line for the lowest power dps class in the game? I don't care that you want to make invocation the higher dps version of condi renegade but this is one of the dumbest ways you could possibly go about doing so directly nerfing all dps power revenant builds which are all underperforming. In my opinion your balance patches have been trash for the past year or more and this change while minor in the grand scheme of things is inconceivably dumb.

 

Also why are you pushing renegade to be the one and only elite spec for Revenant in all game modes, seriously a lot of us don't like renegade, we like herald, I consider renegade a trash design and Kalla is a total eyesore that was probably intended to be so clunky and unfun to play that it couldn't possibly be op in pvp allowing the numbers could be pumped to finally give rev a meta pve build. It worked but what also happened is now the only end game pve elite spec we have is the clunky unfun renegade while herald is just being left in the dust and ignored unless it is ok at something then it gets nerfed or renegade is too good at something then core traits that herald can also use get nerfed. And Renegade just keeps getting pushed to be the be all end all for revenant, it is currently better than herald for condi dps, power dps, boon support, and heal support (albeit heal renegade got dumpstered pretty hard by the soulcleave change, its still better than heal herald in general) and its stronger in pvp as well (not going to say anything definitive about wvw as I believe that game mode has the most poorly optimized meta builds of the 3 game modes, people still run hammer herald in zergs but I find shortbow renegade simply stronger unless you have 3-4 hammer heralds in voice coms synching their spikes, and outside of abusing tormenting runes, renegade does small to mid scale fights way better than herald). The only niche herald has left is stacking damage reduction modifiers to make insanely tanky builds which got hot fixed with this patch anyways so case in point to ignoring where herald struggles only pay attention to nerf if it is good at something.

 

Herald has 3 different direct damage modifiers tied to it and glint has 3 facet consume skills that do decent direct damage this is a good basis for making a viable mid tier power dps spec with just a small amount of number tweaking but for some reason you people are so adamant in your refusal to do so. I'm getting very frustrated at this point it is like you are deliberately trying to drive me and all the people who like herald and not the abomination that is renegade away from the game. Please stop trying to force renegade down our collective throats and give herald some love, you aren't going to make me start liking renegade by nerfing core and herald more and more its just making me annoyed and apathetic towards playing your game.

 

Side note, I don't really care about the battle scars healing nerf since it was a lot of extra sustain for a dps trait line which should be a more high risk high reward kind of trait line, of course every source of battle scars is tied to a major trait which competes against a pure dps trait so battle scars shouldn't be relevant for devastation dps builds but for some reason dance of death does more dps than swift termination in most scenarios which is really dumb. Fix this not by nerfing dance of death that would just be more salt in the wound, realize that swift termination is a damage multiplier while dance of death is a damage adder, so if power revs actually did more damage in general, the bonus from swift termination would grow to be higher while the damage from dance of death would remain static allowing swift termination to be the high risk/high reward option between the 2 traits.

 

Also I don't care that EoD is probably going to give rev a power dps e-spec in the coming months, I still want Herald to not just be a non choice as there are plenty of fun mechanics tied to it and some very cool animations mainly chaotic release and infused light.

 

Way smarter alternative to the stupid unsuspecting strikes nerf: reduce vulnerability stacks on ice razor's ire from 2 to 1 which halves the amount of battle scars generated by that skill in conjunction with dance of death from 40 to 20 dramatically reducing the damage out put and sustain of devastation renegade without hitting core/herald, can even double the duration of each vuln stack to keep the overall vulnerability stacking capabilities somewhat consistent. Hire me anet.

You are correct about the nonsensical nerf to Unsuspecting Strikes and the complete embarrassment that is the "choice" between Swift Termination and Dance of Death. But your suggested fix (which is better than what the devs came up with) is missing the mark. If Condition Renegade is supposed to drop Devastation for Invocation to get the highest damage possible than reverting Destructive Impulses to only affecting power damage is the best fix. Of course that won't be happening, since it would shine a spotlight on the sheer lunacy of making that trait increase all outgoing damage to begin with. And adressing Dance of Death has a simple solution as well: Decrease the base value and scaling of the power damage component of Battle Scars and turn it into a sustain focused effect. If it has to much synergy with Renegade and not enough with Core or Herald then you reduce the Vulnerability stacks on Ice Razor's Ire and buff Expose Defenses.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

5 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

I mean it's funny you argue devastation is a power only line and at the same time arguing Herald is a condi line.

 

Devastation was used on condi core back before PoF. (PvE ofc)

 

I mean you're not wrong but still, the hypocrisy is kinda funny

I never said Herald IS a condi line.  I merely said it would be possible to buff Herald to make a condi build stronger and that it already has certain synergies with condi (i.e. Elemental Blast, Song of the Mists).  Reading comprehension my dude

Also ofc I know it used to be use for the core condi build before PoF.  That's only because Core has no other line that boosts damage to a reasonable amount, so of course it's going to run the power line instead.  This is extremely obvious.  I used to run this build all the time in raids/open world before PoF.  I'm not sure why someone who admits to "only playing WvW" is so interested in PvE debates

[lodjur.1284]

45 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

I never said Herald IS a condi line.  I merely said it would be possible to buff Herald to make a condi build stronger and that it already has certain synergies with condi (i.e. Elemental Blast, Song of the Mists).  Reading comprehension my dude

 

Certain synergies with condi,  like SPB and scrapper got

45 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

Also ofc I know it used to be use for the core condi build before PoF.  That's only because Core has no other line that boosts damage to a reasonable amount, so of course it's going to run the power line instead.  This is extremely obvious.  I used to run this build all the time in raids/open world before PoF.  I'm not sure why someone who admits to "only playing WvW" is so interested in PvE debates

Yet you call it a pure power line. 

 

Also be careful with the tenses. Currently retri, corruption, deva, renegade and invo provides % condi dmg. 

 

In fact salvation is the only line except for Herald that doesn't. 

 

When it's been more used for and currently provides more damage for condi builds than Herald ever has in PvE.

 

It's certainly not a pure power line. 

[ArthurDent.9538]

29 minutes ago, lodjur.1284 said:

Certain synergies with condi,  like SPB and scrapper got

Yet you call it a pure power line. 

 

Also be careful with the tenses. Currently retri, corruption, deva, renegade and invo provides % condi dmg. 

 

In fact salvation is the only line except for Herald that doesn't. 

 

When it's been more used for and currently provides more damage for condi builds than Herald ever has in PvE.

 

It's certainly not a pure power line. 

It was pure power but ultimately damage is damage and all condi builds do some amount of power damage. Devastation was historically used for the pre pof core revenant condi dps build because it buffed the power damage part of that build more than the alternative traitlines resulting in more overall damage. This is doesn't make it a condi dps or even hybrid traitline, there simply wasn't any alternatives for a third condi dps traitline, so people opted to increase the power damage part of the build.

[Sereath.1428]

"Renegade continues to perform too well in every game mode. What should we do?"
"Nerf Core and/or Herald again of course. The most logical choice."

[Virdo.1540]

Quote

"Renegade continues to perform too well in every game mode. What should we do?"
"Nerf Core and/or Herald again of course. The most logical choice."

 

The ability of the balance team to think about the outcome of any change is as big as the ability of the ticket support to... do anything.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Virdo.1540

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Imagine nerfing power rev in pve. LMFAO. Patch notes are truly amusing. Feels bad for those who decided to stay and continue to play this game

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

3 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

Certain synergies with condi,  like SPB and scrapper got

Yet you call it a pure power line. 

 

Also be careful with the tenses. Currently retri, corruption, deva, renegade and invo provides % condi dmg. 

 

In fact salvation is the only line except for Herald that doesn't. 

 

When it's been more used for and currently provides more damage for condi builds than Herald ever has in PvE.

 

It's certainly not a pure power line. 

It was a pure power line since launch up until May 11th of this year. 
 

the ONLY reason back then it was run for Core Condi was it provided more damage to the power aspect of the Condi Build than Herald by a small margin and brought Assassin’s Presence. It did not buff the Condi build directly back then, so it absolutely WAS a pure power line.  This is just pure, factual information. Just because a line “was run in a condi build” doesn’t make it not a pure power line. 
 

“Watch the tenses” lmao okay what a ridiculous nitpick. I understand you’re grasping for straws to make me look bad, but I was clearly talking about “the past” given that my opening sentence was referencing the build from 4 years ago you mentioned previously and was directed at that.  No one has time to proof read 100x times before posting, so “apologies” for messing up a tense. People are human, it happens. Everyone else in this thread knows what I meant and the meaning is clear, but sure I’ll make sure to make obvious things more obvious in future 👍
 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[lodjur.1284]

6 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

It was a pure power line since launch up until May 11th of this year. 
 

the ONLY reason back then it was run for Core Condi was it provided more damage to the power aspect of the Condi Build than Herald by a small margin and brought Assassin’s Presence. It did not buff the Condi build directly back then, so it absolutely WAS a pure power line.  This is just pure, factual information. Just because a line “was run in a condi build” doesn’t make it not a pure power line. 

Yet it was used over Herald something you say has/had so much condi synergy 

6 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

“Watch the tenses” lmao okay what a ridiculous nitpick. I understand you’re grasping for straws to make me look bad, but I was clearly talking about “the past” given that my opening sentence was referencing the build from 4 years ago you mentioned previously and was directed at that.  No one has time to proof read 100x times before posting, so “apologies” for messing up a tense. People are human, it happens. Everyone else in this thread knows what I meant and the meaning is clear, but sure I’ll make sure to make obvious things more obvious in future 👍
 

 

Someone's upset.

[rdigeri.7935]

In the main patch they wrote:

"We’re improving the strike damage of the Renegade’s Kalla’s Fervor effect by changing it from a ferocity bonus to a bonus to all damage dealt. This change will allow Renegade power builds to be more viable for general play in open-world and mission contexts, although it is unlikely to create a Renegade power build for high-end PvE content."

 

Them not engaging with power rev's viability yet acknowledging it, and even nerfing it afterwards, leads me to believe that we're gonna see a pdps oriented espec in EoD. This would line up with how they handled pre-expansion balance in the past. Either that, or poor choices have been made indeed.

 

Either way, the identity of herald's not looking good.

[Buran.3796]

On 5/26/2021 at 12:19 AM, ArthurDent.9538 said:

That dps is quite good, but its renegade, I hate renegade, I'm sick of renegade being the top revenant build in almost every situation for pve especially exacerbated by how herald has been more or less killed off in pvp with renegade being the one meta build we have left there.

   Herald is stronger than Renegade in PvP, both the power and the condi versions. Condi Renegade is still more powerfull than Herald in PvE, but the only advantage is having the bow for fighting at range if needed.

 

   Also: albeit condi Herald doesn't provide the same dps as condi Renegade in PvP the gap in survability between condi Herald and condi Renegade have been increased even more in favour of the Herald: condi Herald is almost unkillable in PvE, whereas Renegade relies in well timed skills which spent tons of energy, a problem which condi Herald doesn't have.

 

   Finally, stop being so nitpicking about Renegade vs Herald vs Core; I also hate the Renegade design and play in Herald most of the time. The thing is Rev currently stomps PvE and you will get more gold in open world than playing instances, so you can play any Rev you want (even core), show the middle finger to instanced content and still get more gold x hour than people playing tier 4 fractals....

[Virdo.1540]

57 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 

 

   Finally, stop being so nitpicking about Renegade vs Herald vs Core; I also hate the Renegade design and play in Herald most of the time. The thing is Rev currently stomps PvE and you will get more gold in open world than playing instances, so you can play any Rev you want (even core), show the middle finger to instanced content and still get more gold x hour than people playing tier 4 fractals....

What if i dont want to grind gold 24/7 in open world?  What if i want to play raids and fractals?

[Thornwolf.9721]

12 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

What if i dont want to grind gold 24/7 in open world?  What if i want to play raids and fractals?

Then you're stuck with renegade. 

[Virdo.1540]

7 hours ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Then you're stuck with renegade. 

And thats the problem.

[Thornwolf.9721]

56 minutes ago, Virdo.1540 said:

And thats the problem.

I don't disagree.