DPS Quickness scrapper - one tiny buff away from achieving greatness

[Imba.9451]

I already brought up this idea in another threat, but considering most threats discuss healer scrapper, I didn't want this to get buried there: The option to play DPS-scrapper. With the newly implemented way of providing Quickness via kinetic accelerator, there is a high incentive to basically keep them on CD if having a high Quickness uptime is your goal, wich makes their use for a support build poorly implemented.

However, it's perfect for DPS-Scrappers. And object in Motion basically begs for DPS-Scrapper to be considered. The problem? Even if you choose to go for explosives and firearms, your damage lacks behind considerably. Lacking behind "real" dps-classes is not my main problem here, I think it's fair for scrapper to not reach the pantheon of DPS-enlightenment, but it just offer to little else in order to be considered a real stand-in as Quickness provider.

Wich is sad, because it really just needs a few numbers tweaked in order to solve this problem. You could:

 1. Simply increase the damage of Hammer skills and Gyros (Wells). Simple solution, lacking a bit of finesse, but perfectly suited to solve the issue.

2. reduce cooldowns. This would also buff Quickness uptime without having to gear heavily into concentration in order to keep up quickness while providing additional damage.

3. Reduce cast times. Not a big factor, but probably leading to results as well.

4. Increase damage instances on Hammer 2 and 5 for PvE. Pretty self explonatory, although probably not sufficient.

5. Further increase Quickness gained from the talent. This allows to gear up with more damage oriented stats.

 

6. A mix of everything above.

 

 

I feel that Scrapper is, just as the title says, just a small buff away from being an actual contender in PvE damage compositions. It just needs a little more oomph in order to make this build viable and not having the entire spec being reduced to a support.

[Infusion.7149]

How about no (re: hammer damage).

Hammer DPS scrapper is 35K benchmark as of May 11 patch. If they keep upping the damage it will be mindlessly overpowered because holo is ~37K right now.

35K is basically bog standard power DPS these days, the difference being scrapper will have high scholar uptime (and glass cannon as well) and all the utilities of wells/superspeed. The DPS scrapper only runs grenade kit as a kit so it isn't much more difficult than a two weapon build.
https://lucky-noobs.com/builds/scrapper-power

The worthwhile change I could see happening is a cooldown reduction on Bypass coating since it isn't used for DPS scrapper.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Imba.9451]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

How about no (re: hammer damage).

Hammer DPS scrapper is 35K benchmark as of May 11 patch. If they keep upping the damage it will be mindlessly overpowered because holo is ~37K right now.

35K is basically bog standard power DPS these days, the difference being scrapper will have high scholar uptime (and glass cannon as well) and all the utilities of wells/superspeed. The DPS scrapper only runs grenade kit as a kit so it isn't much more difficult than a two weapon build.
https://lucky-noobs.com/builds/scrapper-power

The worthwhile change I could see happening is a cooldown reduction on Bypass coating since it isn't used for DPS scrapper.

However, that builds isn't a Quickness scrapper. Additionally, but this is true for all builds, I have a hard time taking those numbers seriously, considering it's an inactive golem with the player simply having ALL the buffs the game offers.

You also can't take turret as a Quickness scrapper. You need blast gyro for additional quickness.

I admit, I do see the problem with buffing damage tho.

[Infusion.7149]

24 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

However, that builds isn't a Quickness scrapper. Additionally, but this is true for all builds, I have a hard time taking those numbers seriously, considering it's an inactive golem with the player simply having ALL the buffs the game offers.

You also can't take turret as a Quickness scrapper. You need blast gyro for additional quickness.

I admit, I do see the problem with buffing damage tho.

The point is a hammer buff is not a reasonable expectation. The quickness scrapper is listed as follows and this is without the 2.5s base quickness duration change today:
https://lucky-noobs.com/builds/scrapper-quickness

 

[Nephalem.8921]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

How about no (re: hammer damage).

Hammer DPS scrapper is 35K benchmark as of May 11 patch. If they keep upping the damage it will be mindlessly overpowered because holo is ~37K right now.

35K is basically bog standard power DPS these days, the difference being scrapper will have high scholar uptime (and glass cannon as well) and all the utilities of wells/superspeed. The DPS scrapper only runs grenade kit as a kit so it isn't much more difficult than a two weapon build.
https://lucky-noobs.com/builds/scrapper-power

The worthwhile change I could see happening is a cooldown reduction on Bypass coating since it isn't used for DPS scrapper.

Please stop using LN benchmarks. They use all boons and conditions because they are just very special. You wont have 100% stab uptime and you wont have 13 condis up. Realistic are ~10 condis and no stab. thats just ~10% less than the 35k you claim.

 

 

Thats the realistic version. Full dps aswell. Doesnt look that good anymore does it?

Quickness dps scrapper is still garbage since it requires still way too much bd. I still dont get why they are so afraid of buffing it when it couldnt even replace fb everywhere if it had 10sec base quickness duration. Fb is just that busted.

The quickness Fb version does 31lk dps. Provides perma fury, aegis and can even take a lot of stab. Scrapper can do none of that. It has to drop a lot of dps when it wants to provide anything. Current quickness scrapper does ~26k dps. So still meme compared to chrono or fb.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Nephalem.8921

[Infusion.7149]

So you think that buffing hammer is a good idea? I really don't think it's a good idea. If you want to buff quickness scrapper then buff the utilities only quickness scrapper will use.

37 vs 33 is only ~11-12% difference depending on which you use as baseline. Before May 11 , 33K was just below Reaper/Thief/power DH with a scepter (let's not forget a DH with scepter is a ranged weapon just like grenades are ranged) and the latest benchmark with longbow on DH is ~34K. Those are all with scholar uptime.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Nephalem.8921]

13 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

So you think that buffing hammer is a good idea? I really don't think it's a good idea. If you want to buff quickness scrapper then buff the utilities only quickness scrapper will use.

37 vs 33 is only ~11-12% difference depending on which you use as baseline. Before May 11 , 33K was just below Reaper/Thief/power DH with a scepter (let's not forget a DH with scepter is a ranged weapon just like grenades are ranged) and the latest benchmark with longbow on DH is ~34K. Those are all with scholar uptime.

You mean blast gyro? literally the only skill currently. Dont forget that qrapper has to give up a 250 power trait + 30% stab uptime for quickness. That means qrapper does a lot less than dps by default.

It competes with fb. an op 31k dps build that provides perma fury aswell And aegis, and stab and can bring reflections and high cc and even 37.5% condi cleanse uptime on the dps skill.

Qrapper has to give it a lot more since swapping grenade kit is massive for qrapper. They could buff blast gyro dmg to be less of a meme. or swap trait locations to allow qrapper to take the 250power trait. or change object in motion to not require stab but quickness. Or even the simpliest change and buff base dura to at least 3 sec or even 4sec or give hammer 2 or blast or shredder superspeed on activation. just that would put it above tb fb to make it at least a better tank.

[Infusion.7149]

Renegade (traitline-wise and Soulcleave) was nerfed , StM chrono was nerfed. I'm not sure why more powercreep damage-wise should be introduced to make it (quickness scrapper) on par with CQB when the reverse should be the case: instead of buffing CQB they should have scaled Firebrand back.

Would have been fine if blast gyro applied more might if the cooldown is retained ; bypass coating could have had a PvE cooldown reduction since it is not of major use in PvE. Using two to three gyros (not counting function gyro really, unless the increased cooldown is removed for ressing) ideally should be enough without going full on boon duration. That way you could bring shredder + blast/medic gyro. Running med kit is okay but for a DPS focused scrapper you are only really going to use it for the bandage self superspeed.


Without alacrity , post May 25 patch it still cannot maintain quickness reasonably

• bypass coating (blast gyro), 30 base cooldown ---- 2.5s base quickness = 8.3%
• blast gyro, 25 base cooldown --- 2.5s base quickness =10%
• shredder gyro, 20 base cooldown --- 2.5s base quickness = 12.5%
• medic gyro, 20 base cooldown --- 2.5s base quickness = 12.5%  , with double proc 25%

   ---> alternative is bandage self with 17s base cooldown ~14.7% coverage

• stealth gyro , 45 base cooldown --- 2.5s base quickness  = ~5.5% coverage
• function gyro, 25 base cooldown --- 2.5s base quickness = 10%

total ~ 43% coverage before boon duration (not including the stealth gyro which pushes it to ~49%) , cannot maintain it without function gyro (just under 98% coverage with full boon duration and stealth gyro)

If medic gyro double procs quickness , then ~56% coverage before boon duration and~66% coverage with function gyro and not using stealth gyro (meaning required boon duration ~ 50%).

With alacrity , post May 25

• bypass coating (blast gyro) , 24 cooldown with alacrity ---  2.5s/24 = ~10.4%
• blast gyro , 20 cooldown with alacrity --- 2.5/20 = 12.5%
• shredder gyro , 16 cooldown with alacrity --- 2.5/16 = 15.6%
• medic gyro , 16 cooldown with alacrity --- 2.5/16 = 15.6%  , with double proc 31.2%

---> alternative med kit's bandage self = 2.5/13.5 ~ 18.5% coverage

• function gyro , 20 cooldown with alacrity --- 2.5/20 = 12.5%

total ~54%-57% coverage before boon duration without function gyro so you can run two of them or run 75-85% boon duration.

If you use function gyro then ~66 coverage without boon duration , so it's ~51% boon duration required in that scenario

Medic gyro proccing quickness twice would change the scenario , as you'd have ~70% coverage without using function gyro and ~82% with function gyro. That reduces required boon duration along the lines of 22%.

=====

Another issue is the superspeed and quickness on gyros hasn't been split between modes. It should be split in half at a minimum for WvW (<1s quickness , 1.5s superspeed) because gyros do so much already for DPS and heal scrappers are meta in that mode already.

Blast gyro is a prime candidate for changes cooldown-wise because in competitive modes it does negligible damage and Elixir U is almost always a better pick (it breaks stuns).

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[The Boz.2038]

Invert Blast gyro to Pull. This is mandatory. Without this, it will forever be a trash skill in PvE, or limited to, like, rifle meme builds.

[Orack.9756]

On 6/7/2021 at 10:27 AM, The Boz.2038 said:

Invert Blast gyro to Pull. This is mandatory. Without this, it will forever be a trash skill in PvE, or limited to, like, rifle meme builds.

I like this idea