Why did the risen survive the death of Zhaitain? [spoilers]

[Daniel Handler.4816]

After talking with Gorrik and Taimi in EotN it seems like many icebrood and destroyers are suddenly dying following the deaths of Jormag/Primordus. How did this not happen to all of the risen of Siren's Landing? I don't recall anything happening to the champions like what happened to Bangar/Braham/Ryland.

 

Is this some sort of opposites cancel out situation where Jormag/Primordus killing each other neutralized their domains but Zhaitain was absorbed by another dragon, so the minions were sustained? Or did I miss something and the Risen/Mordrem were actually decimated by their master's deaths.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Destroyers are very different from all other dragon minions in that they aren't corrupted life, but are mockeries of life made out of rock. So they wouldn't be able to exist without a source of magic to begin with, so the lore is completely accurate here.

 

As for the IceBrood, I can't say. We do know that Svanir die without the Thaw Elixer, and all IceBrood likely have an expiration date since they're still rotting. The Branded seem very similar in that regard.

 

Mordrem are natural dragon minions and not corrupted creatures; the corruption was meant to be their natural state from the moment of being born. They're as "alive" as dragon minions get, which fits Modremoth's "I am life itself" motto, so it makes sense they wouldn't die. And at least one Mordrem is known to have reverted after Moredremoth's death.

 

Risen were only immortal because they were already undead.

 

Regarding dragon champions, we don't actually know what happens to them. Scarlet died before Mordremoth was awakened, the rest of Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik's champions were already dead, and disappeared because they couldn't be revived anymore.

 

The only surviving dragon champion we know if is Tequatl, and like all Risen we see in Siren's Landing Tequatl was likely "unchained". It would've been free to absorb Zhaitan's power from the land afterwards, and this was heavily hinted at during Tequatl Rising.

 

Freed champions are shown to still be corrupted, as you can see with Ryland after Jormag's power left him, his body was severely malformed. Braham was protected by the Spirits of the Wild, and wasn't a dragon champion for nearly as long.

 

Caithe's transformation also seems to be permanent, and would likely remain after Aurene dies. If Aurene could die, that is, (as Braham says, everything can die, the only question is how.)

 

Glint was still corrupted after the Forgotten ritual, only regaining her free will.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Daniel Handler.4816]

1 minute ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Destroyers are very different from all other dragon minions in that they aren't corrupted life, but are mockeries of life made out of rock. So they wouldn't be able to exist without a source of magic to begin with, so the lore is completely accurate here.

 

As for the IceBrood, I can't say.

 

Regarding dragon champions, we don't actually know what happens to them. Scarlet died before Mordremoth was awakened, the rest of Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik's champions were already dead, and disappeared because they couldn't be revived anymore.

 

The only surviving dragon champion we know if is Tequatl, and like all Risen we see in Siren's Landing Tequatl was likely "unchained".

 

Freed champions are shown to still be corrupted, as you can see with Ryland after Jormag's power left him, his body was severely malformed. Braham was protected by the Spirits of the Wild, and wasn't a dragon champion for nearly as long.

 

Caithe's transformation also seems to be permanent, and would likely remain after Aurene dies. If Aurene could die, that is, (as Braham says, everything can die, the only question is how.)

 

Glint was still corrupted after the Forgotten ritual, only regaining her free will.

 

There is also the Pale Tree. Who was basically fine, not counted their injuries from being attacked. 

Caithe's flower did fall off when Aurene died, so there is some precedent. But Caithe wasn't horribly disfigured or instantly killed.

 

Idk. It seems like the aftermath to minions is much worse this time around.

 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

1 minute ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

 

There is also the Pale Tree. Who was basically fine, not counted their injuries from being attacked. 

Caithe's flower did fall off when Aurene died, so there is some precedent. But Caithe wasn't horribly disfigured or instantly killed.

 

Idk. It seems like the aftermath to minions is much worse this time around.

 

I made a big edit to my post with some other stuff I could think of!

[Teratus.2859]

Kinda makes sense I guess..

Without Primordus I would expect the Destroyers to either start dying off when they no longer have magic to sustain them or I would expect them to become mindless rampaging idiots with absolutely no intelligence what so ever.

The Icebrood I think are suffering from a similar problem, without Jormag's magic to sustain their ice bodies they simply cannot survive in anything but an impossibly super cold environment.

As far as other minions go I think they simply lost their hive mind, but their forms remain intact.

I expect the Risen are probably more vulnerable to certain elements though but that's not something that's been brought up in the game, we know some are still roaming around Orr and some are somewhat regaining some memory or intelligence but for the most part the Risen have been hunted down and eradicated by the pact over the years.
I expect there are at best only a few thousand of them left un-alive.. but that's a pure guess.

[Imba.9451]

Honestly, I think the answer is pretty simple: Arenanet wants to be done with dragons now, so there is no reason to keep icebrood or destroyers around.

 

[BadBobaRat.5367]

10 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

As far as other minions go I think they simply lost their hive mind, but their forms remain intact.

I agree with this, you can also sort of see that in the Awakened. They didn't just fall over and die again after Joko went bye-bye.

I guess it just goes down to: does it come inherently from the dragon, or is it based on a pre-existing life? Zhaitain didn't really create the Risen, Kralk didn't really create the Branded - but - Primordus definitely created the Destroyers from scratch. 

But it's messy when it comes to Mordremoth and Jormag... If we go by that rule, all Mordy-based creations should just fall over dead, including the Sylvari, unless each Tree counts as a sort of... "Copy" of Mordremoth?  And the Icebrood would just sort of roam around? But since they are dying, that can't be true. 
 

I would love to see both of them get explained in more detail, but it will most likely just get disregarded, which is a shame.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Better question is "why are destroyers and icebrood dying with Primordus' and Jormag's deaths?"

 

As OP says, the risen are fine after Zhaitan's death, except a bit dumber and less coordinated. But it took three years to get there - in Arah explorable, the risen are no worse off with Zhaitan's death and seem to retain their hive mind in full force (or at least they don't realize Zhaitan is dead yet, unlike in Siren's Landing). In fact, Tequatl got stronger with Zhaitan's death.

 

In Out of the Shadows, Rox stated that the mordrem are still a threat - though the Forsaken Thicket raid showed that the vegetative corruption vines are now still and without Mordremoth's inhabiting mind (not dead, just acting like non-magical plants). There was also recent confirmation via dev interview that Mordrem Guard didn't all return to their original selves and kept acting out. The Pale Tree has been slowly recovering with zero changes to sylvari - despite Caithe's odd claims of fearing the sylvari would die out without Mordremoth (why would she think this while knowing full well the risen were still around?).

 

In Bound by Blood as well as The Key of Ahdashim raid, we see that branded are similarly unaffected by the immediate death of Kralkatorrik.

 

So why are destroyers and icebrood different? Why are the destroyers cooling down and icebrood thawing out, when risen, mordrem, and branded were not?

Edited May 26, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

13 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

The only surviving dragon champion we know if is Tequatl, and like all Risen we see in Siren's Landing Tequatl was likely "unchained". It would've been free to absorb Zhaitan's power from the land afterwards, and this was heavily hinted at during Tequatl Rising.

There were many more:

• Farnaz, High Priestess of Lyssa
• Ghasem, High Priest of Grenth
• Kaisar, High Priest of Balthazar
• Simin, High Priestess of Dwayna
• Vahid, High Priest of Melandru
• Wraithlord
• Giganticus Lupicus

All from Arah explorable dungeon, which occurs post-Zhaitan's death. All unaffected by Zhaitan's death entirely.

And possibly (champion status unclear but they're very powerful minions):

• Korga the Mighty
• Alphard, Serpent of the Waves
• Unchained Wyvern
• Tlati, the Unchained

And for mordrem we have Beyn, Scion of Thorns

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Imba.9451 said:

Honestly, I think the answer is pretty simple: Arenanet wants to be done with dragons now, so there is no reason to keep icebrood or destroyers around.

Counterargument: They didn't do this with mordrem, yet other than the one boss in Sandswept Isles, there have been zero mordrem in the story.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Better question is "why are destroyers and icebrood dying with Primordus' and Jormag's deaths?"

 

 

Perhaps the icebrood/destroyers need ice/fire magic to maintain themselves. 

 

Not only did Zhaitan and Mordremoth release huge amounts of death and plant magic into the system, other dragons  (based on new abilities and the facets within Kralkatorrik) took their places in the All. 

 

If we go back to everyone's favourite magic is like light theory, the death of Jormag/Primordus released pure ley into the environment. And as far we know no one has replaced them. 

[Fueki.4753]

I guesses are that it's either something Arenanet might want to explain to us at a later date,

or it's just random fluff that some writer added without any regards to whether it makes sense or not.

 

Unless Destroyers get blasted with ice magic via the feedback loop that originally made them stronger, there should be no reason for them to die out. No new ones should be created, like with Risen or Branded, but the currently existing ones should not simply die off.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

As both represent nature-elements, there exists no real field corruption. But the field corruption sustains and works as some kind of physical presence of the dragons, even in their absence.

 

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

Not only did Zhaitan and Mordremoth release huge amounts of death and plant magic into the system, other dragons  (based on new abilities and the facets within Kralkatorrik) took their places in the All. 

If Taimi's Simulation during Season 3 is any indication, then no, the other Elder Dragons did not take their place in The All. Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's spheres are still completely innert.

 

And besides, Jormag's and Primordus' magic still went "somewhere", just like Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's. It wasn't releasing "pure ley-line" into the system, but Jormag's and Primordus' magic.

[zealex.9410]

18 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Destroyers are very different from all other dragon minions in that they aren't corrupted life, but are mockeries of life made out of rock. So they wouldn't be able to exist without a source of magic to begin with, so the lore is completely accurate here.

 

As for the IceBrood, I can't say. We do know that Svanir die without the Thaw Elixer, and all IceBrood likely have an expiration date since they're still rotting. The Branded seem very similar in that regard.

 

Mordrem are natural dragon minions and not corrupted creatures; the corruption was meant to be their natural state from the moment of being born. They're as "alive" as dragon minions get, which fits Modremoth's "I am life itself" motto, so it makes sense they wouldn't die. And at least one Mordrem is known to have reverted after Moredremoth's death.

 

Risen were only immortal because they were already undead.

 

Regarding dragon champions, we don't actually know what happens to them. Scarlet died before Mordremoth was awakened, the rest of Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik's champions were already dead, and disappeared because they couldn't be revived anymore.

 

The only surviving dragon champion we know if is Tequatl, and like all Risen we see in Siren's Landing Tequatl was likely "unchained". It would've been free to absorb Zhaitan's power from the land afterwards, and this was heavily hinted at during Tequatl Rising.

 

Freed champions are shown to still be corrupted, as you can see with Ryland after Jormag's power left him, his body was severely malformed. Braham was protected by the Spirits of the Wild, and wasn't a dragon champion for nearly as long.

 

Caithe's transformation also seems to be permanent, and would likely remain after Aurene dies. If Aurene could die, that is, (as Braham says, everything can die, the only question is how.)

 

Glint was still corrupted after the Forgotten ritual, only regaining her free will.

Caithe and ryland were very similar in the way that both their eds died and they lost part of their visual changes but some(like change in fur, leaf colouration) remained.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

34 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

Caithe and ryland were very similar in the way that both their eds died and they lost part of their visual changes but some(like change in fur, leaf colouration) remained.

In Caithe's case it was explicitly mentioned back in LWS4, when her transformation happened, that she wasn't corrupted like dragon minions typically are(she can't be anyways due to being Sylvari), but rather it was "connection". Setting it distinctly apart from everything else thus far.

 

Ryland, Bangar, and Braham, all seem to have had a similar sort of change, though it wasn't explicitly described as such. Explaining their partial or total reversions after the Dragon's deaths. Braham had the additional factor of being protected by the Spirits of the Wild, possibly explaining his more complete reversion compared to Ryland.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Daniel Handler.4816]

39 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

If Taimi's Simulation during Season 3 is any indication, then no, the other Elder Dragons did not take their place in The All. Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's spheres are still completely innert.

 

And besides, Jormag's and Primordus' magic still went "somewhere", just like Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's. It wasn't releasing "pure ley-line" into the system, but Jormag's and Primordus' magic.

But did go somewhere as Primordus's and Jormag's magic or as just magic?  We've been told those two cancel out when they come in contact with each other. Zhaitain and Mordremoth didn't release both of their energies in the same space at the same time.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Rhywolver.8250]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

If Taimi's Simulation during Season 3 is any indication, then no, the other Elder Dragons did not take their place in The All. Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's spheres are still completely innert.

 

And besides, Jormag's and Primordus' magic still went "somewhere", just like Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's. It wasn't releasing "pure ley-line" into the system, but Jormag's and Primordus' magic.

Just a thought, might be just another crack head theory:

1. Let's assume the spheres in The All are not the Elder Dragons.
2. The spheres, seen in The All assemble only the aspects of magic that exist in Tyria (and might be necessary to 'balance' the magic in Tyria).
3. The Elder Dragons are just vessels for the aspects of magic. If an ED dies, the magic is 'free' - living beeings, even other EDs can get corrupted from this unbound magic.
4. Elder Dragons that 'eat' magic that is not of their own sphere might release such 'bastardized' magic back into the system, which results in strange corrupted minions, like death- or plant-touched minions of Primordus, Jormag and Kralkatorrik (regarding the last one, I only remember the death aspect).

So this wrong, bastardized magic is something that isn't seen often - it's more like the ED puked out the magic they couldn't digest - until a new Elder Dragon came to purify the magic.

Now, there are Elder Dragons where minions died and EDs where the minions didn't die. But there are some differences and similarities (please correct me if the list is not complete, this is what I can remember):

 

 

- Zhaitan: Had a dragon champion that became stronger when he died (Tequatl)
- Mordremoth: Had a (kind of) champion that was alive, although unconscious when he died (the Pale Tree) - not a dragon, but of similar physics (plant, roots)
- Kralkatorrik: Had a scion near him that took most of his magic (Aurene).
- Jormag: Had no dragon champion we know of when they died, since Drakkar (if Drakkar was even some kind of Dragon, in my opinion he was) was killed some episodes before
- Primordus: Had no strong draconic champion that we know of

 

(I know I'm not mentioning Claws of Jormag and Death branded shatterers here.)

But let's just say, the system is hierarchic: If an Elder Dragon dies and has a strong (dragon) champion, all minions continue to live. They might not be in control anymore, as seen in Siren's Landing, but they won't just drop dead (side note: Aurene also doesn't control all Branded, but they didn't die).
If there are no strong minions, the minions fall apart / die. In case of Primordus and Jormag it seems like half of the minions didn't make it - surprisingly Aurene could take half of their magic, and the other half is still 'somewhere'.

 

Note: Tequatl and the Pale Tree might be the reason that their according Elder Dragon's minions did not die because there are bonds that keep them alive, but it's possible that they don't function as the new vessel for the equivalent magic (yet).

 

I'm excited to learn where the Jormag's and Primordus' magic went, tha part that Aurene could not take. I just hope that it's a reasonable answer we get here and not just a gameplay answer to get us into EOD.
 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Rhywolver.8250

[galen ubal.2807]

Or, it could be just a timeline thing. 

When we're in the Core game areas, they are as the world was some years back. 

We can see that some Risen remain mobile in the wake of Zhaitan's death, in Siren's Bay, I suspect that they are now simple, uncontrolled undead for the most part, with a few intelligent ones still hanging about.  Whatever raised them apparently sticks once the one who raised them is dead.

There are no areas in the post Jormag and Primordus world, so other than the reports of Gorrik and Taimi, we don't know the state of any of the dragon's creations.

[Bast.7253]

6 hours ago, Rhywolver.8250 said:

Just a thought, might be just another crack head theory:

1. Let's assume the spheres in The All are not the Elder Dragons.
2. The spheres, seen in The All assemble only the aspects of magic that exist in Tyria (and might be necessary to 'balance' the magic in Tyria).
3. The Elder Dragons are just vessels for the aspects of magic. If an ED dies, the magic is 'free' - living beeings, even other EDs can get corrupted from this unbound magic.
4. Elder Dragons that 'eat' magic that is not of their own sphere might release such 'bastardized' magic back into the system, which results in strange corrupted minions, like death- or plant-touched minions of Primordus, Jormag and Kralkatorrik (regarding the last one, I only remember the death aspect).

So this wrong, bastardized magic is something that isn't seen often - it's more like the ED puked out the magic they couldn't digest - until a new Elder Dragon came to purify the magic.

Now, there are Elder Dragons where minions died and EDs where the minions didn't die. But there are some differences and similarities (please correct me if the list is not complete, this is what I can remember):

 

 

- Zhaitan: Had a dragon champion that became stronger when he died (Tequatl)
- Mordremoth: Had a (kind of) champion that was alive, although unconscious when he died (the Pale Tree) - not a dragon, but of similar physics (plant, roots)
- Kralkatorrik: Had a scion near him that took most of his magic (Aurene).
- Jormag: Had no dragon champion we know of when they died, since Drakkar (if Drakkar was even some kind of Dragon, in my opinion he was) was killed some episodes before
- Primordus: Had no strong draconic champion that we know of

 

(I know I'm not mentioning Claws of Jormag and Death branded shatterers here.)

But let's just say, the system is hierarchic: If an Elder Dragon dies and has a strong (dragon) champion, all minions continue to live. They might not be in control anymore, as seen in Siren's Landing, but they won't just drop dead (side note: Aurene also doesn't control all Branded, but they didn't die).
If there are no strong minions, the minions fall apart / die. In case of Primordus and Jormag it seems like half of the minions didn't make it - surprisingly Aurene could take half of their magic, and the other half is still 'somewhere'.

 

Note: Tequatl and the Pale Tree might be the reason that their according Elder Dragon's minions did not die because there are bonds that keep them alive, but it's possible that they don't function as the new vessel for the equivalent magic (yet).

 

I'm excited to learn where the Jormag's and Primordus' magic went, tha part that Aurene could not take. I just hope that it's a reasonable answer we get here and not just a gameplay answer to get us into EOD.
 

 

That would be weird reasoning considering the entire chapter was called "Champions" and focused on Ryland and Braham becoming champions to Primordus and Jormag. 

I mean, they were literally RIGHT there when they died. I mean, they're just mortals and may not be able to be vessels to the All like Aurene was capable of, but I wouldn't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to fulfill the same role as Teq did to Zhaitan. Other than the fact that they're not dragons.

But I would assume with them being corrupted and seemingly empowered by the elder dragons that they would still classify as "champions" in the same way.


As to why the destroyers and icebrood would be dying out, no clue. The frozen are apparently thawing but very slowly, at least. It's tricky when you spend years trying to evolve the story from... elder dragons are just forces of nature.. and beaming Zhaitan down with a gunship.. to... Mordremoth requiring us go into its mind in a dreamscape to be able to TRULY defeat it and learn about weaknesses.

To then go into Kralk into his own domain, find a unique weakness, and have Aurene see the actual beating heart/orb of the dragon and require destroying it to actually fully kill him.

Now we're back at the Zhaitan level of elder dragon deaths where they just... die... without any complicated requirement of having to go into some other realm/dimension within them and find some unique weakness because they're each other's weakness and.. voila.. poof the magic dragons.

The only significant difference this time around is that they killed each other, died at the same time, were conflicting magics, and we had Aurene there to immediately soak up the excess magic along with another one that seemingly forcefully pulled the remaining magic to it from the area, which hasn't really happened before. In the past it seemed like it was just wild and shot out in whatever direction it would have flowed to naturally. This time, it was forced. 

Perhaps it's the combination of them canceling each other out and the two elder dragons WILLFULLY pulling the magic away that caused them to immediately consume so much of the released magic that it just fried the majority of the existing minions?

Honestly, I wouldn't expect any answer to this. At best we'll get some vague two lines of dialogue from Gorrik or Taimi saying.. "It happened because... reasons! Yeah! Reasons! Bye now!"

Given that we haven't seen magic released from elder dragon deaths behave like this in the past and they seem to try to do something different each time with each elder dragon introduced, I'm really leaning towards thinking that the "thing" that absorbed the magic down south isn't the DSD but something else entirely. I mean, it might suck for the people that want this awesome underwater/on-land epic elder dragon fight and I know the DSD has a lot of potential for some really cool aesthetics that I'd love to see, but I'm just saying don't be surprised if it isn't the DSD that's soaking up all that magic. The only other thing I can think of is that the DSD is older, smarter, and more attuned to the way the magic in the world works and is just not being as passive as it's been in the past. 

I suppose another difference is the fact that we have Aurene, funneling magic differently than we have in the past. Previously the elder dragons just absorbed the deceased dragon's magic and took the aspects within themselves. But Aurene is seemingly taking it in or purifying it or something. (Still unclear what she ACTUALLY does to it.) But perhaps the process it went through when it "flowed through her" purified it to an extent that the minions just had a completely severed connection and ceased to exist/function. In the past it seemed they still remained... able.. but some mental capacity. Like they were sentient things being charged by the magic and just lost sentience, and now they're losing sentience and the ability to stay in tact?

I don't know. I don't know if you can consider the risen in Arah explorable though. Aren't they technically frozen in time to before Zhaitan's defeat? If the dungeon were updated in today's date post-Zhaitan wouldn't the area show some sign of cleansing and unchained at most instead? 

Really wish they would have taken a living world season to show Aurene "healing" and purifying past areas that have been riddled with corruption, like areas in the Jungle, Orr, and more Branded areas. But obviously that would be a huge undertaking and require somekind of new phasing technology that requires completion of living story and an option to see the un-phased version for group content for players that haven't. 

[Tom.8029]

I forget if I misread it or not, but I think Gorrik and Taimi said, for the Icebrood, the more of Jormag's magic that flowed through them, the faster they're dying.  So the more powerful the minion, the sooner the death.  

 

As for Primordus', most of them went out like a light.  

 

As we saw with Tequatl, remaining dragon minions, now unchained I guess,  got Zhaitan's lost magic and now sort of have free will, but don't regain their entire past self.

 

We saw with Mordremoth that Sylvari who became Mordrem Guard remained transformed after Mordremoth's death, but regained their free will.

 

As for Kralkatorrik, seems like the Branded remained corrupted thralls after his death, as Aurene is still cleaning up the mess.

 

I guess every dragon is a little different.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

14 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

But did go somewhere as Primordus's and Jormag's magic or as just magic?  We've been told those two cancel out when they come in contact with each other. Zhaitain and Mordremoth didn't release both of their energies in the same space at the same time.

From my understanding, it isn't that their magic "cancels out" but that the Elder Dragons are weak specifically to the others' magic.

So there's no reason for ice and fire magic to become null magic, or something like that.

23 minutes ago, Tom.8029 said:

I forget if I misread it or not, but I think Gorrik and Taimi said, for the Icebrood, the more of Jormag's magic that flowed through them, the faster they're dying.  So the more powerful the minion, the sooner the death.

I think Gorrik was talking about how far they progressed in corruption.

For icebrood, the corruption process is slow, unlike other dragon corruption. Their minds are altered immediately, but physically their flesh slowly turns to ice until they're just ice and bone (like Icebrood Colossus). It's progresses over time.

The commentary from the two indicate that those which are "further along" in becoming ice are the ones who are dying out first - meaning the older minions die out, while the younger ones (like Ryland) are just injured.

 

Whereas with destroyers it's the weaker ones dying out, and the stronger ones surviving.

23 minutes ago, Tom.8029 said:

As we saw with Tequatl, remaining dragon minions, now unchained I guess,  got Zhaitan's lost magic and now sort of have free will, but don't regain their entire past self.

 

We saw with Mordremoth that Sylvari who became Mordrem Guard remained transformed after Mordremoth's death, but regained their free will.

 

As for Kralkatorrik, seems like the Branded remained corrupted thralls after his death, as Aurene is still cleaning up the mess.

 

I guess every dragon is a little different.

Honestly those three seem the exact same to me. They remain physically altered, but slowly over time regain free will, and may or may not return to their original selves depending on the individual.

Branded weren't around long enough to see this "regain free will" bit, because Aurene hunted them down after becoming an Elder Dragon.

And this is regardless of strength or age.

But with Jormag's and Primordus', it's two completely distinct cases.

[Tom.8029]

I also think this free will thing is partially dependent on the type of creature each dragon likes to corrupt.  For example, Zhaitan seems to corrupt more humanoid creatures or creatures that are more intelligent (Krait, Quaggan, Human, Charr, et cetera)

 

On the other hand, Kralkatorrik seems to have more mindless enemies or enemies with less personality (Devourer, elementals, sparks).  Of course there are exceptions.  Like branded Humans and Charr.