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Reaper needs a buff!


VeyWiil.2576

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4 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

There is no such thing as a PvE meta unless the developer forcibly changes it.

PvE in any given state is a solvable optimization problem because encounters - the AI itself - is generally static, predictable, and the only metric that "top end" players ever care about is speed/run efficiency.  There are no other metrics that really matter for these players. 

 

The PvE "meta" having any value is solely determined by players, and forcing encounters to require roles and punish longer clear times only just adds constraints to make efficient play more valuable as a viable way to clear content efficiently.

 

Contemplate WvW for a minute and the stagnant optimization of ZvZ has been solved and there will never be a better solution until it's mathematically phased out.  Various professions are simply incapable of partaking in various scale of combat effectively.

 

Role-based play is bad for health of the game and is the basis of a lot of toxicity in many games historically.

Then if various professions are incapable of 'partaking' then clearly that is Anet's fault. Regardless of what class i decide to play, there should be no reason why I can't do any of the content available, and because that is not the case then there are major design issues from the start.

However I agree regrading players. There are alot of bias and frankly bandwagon  regarding class hate in the game and anet are refusing to address this. 

Considering they seemly cared about toxicity at the start aswell. 

The only thing in the game that doesn't have a meta is open world, and Spvp because at least there no one can point a finger and tell me what to play. (regardless what MB tells me)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dami.5046 said:

Then if various professions are incapable of 'partaking' then clearly that is Anet's fault. Regardless of what class i decide to play, there should be no reason why I can't do any of the content available, and because that is not the case then there are major design issues from the start.

However I agree regrading players. There are alot of bias and frankly bandwagon  regarding class hate in the game and anet are refusing to address this. 

Considering they seemly cared about toxicity at the start aswell. 

The only thing in the game that doesn't have a meta is open world, and Spvp because at least there no one can point a finger and tell me what to play. (regardless what MB tells me)

 

How do you expect developpers to prevent real peoples from having bias? They are content creators, not therapists.

 

Like DeceiverX said, players naturally lean toward the most effective solution to a problem. Which mean that whatever the devs do, players will trap themselves within a "meta". It's players that need education there and it's not ANet's job to educate players. All ANet can do is shake balance a bit once in a while.

 

NB.: There is a meta to open world as well. People don't necessarily enforce it, but even in open world you're expected to add your weight into the different encounters and to this end there exist some builds that are considered "meta".

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18 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

How do you expect developpers to prevent real peoples from having bias? They are content creators, not therapists.

 

Like DeceiverX said, players naturally lean toward the most effective solution to a problem. Which mean that whatever the devs do, players will trap themselves within a "meta". It's players that need education there and it's not ANet's job to educate players. All ANet can do is shake balance a bit once in a while.

I disagree with that sentiment... Slightly.

 

Sure, Anet is supposed to step in every now and then and change the playing field. But honestly, sometimes they do go too far. Just look at what they did to soulbeast and chronomancer. You can't sit there and tell us Anet doesn't have such a big influence on what the next meta is going to be lol.

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17 hours ago, Dami.5046 said:

Then if various professions are incapable of 'partaking' then clearly that is Anet's fault. Regardless of what class i decide to play, there should be no reason why I can't do any of the content available, and because that is not the case then there are major design issues from the start.

However I agree regrading players. There are alot of bias and frankly bandwagon  regarding class hate in the game and anet are refusing to address this. 

Considering they seemly cared about toxicity at the start aswell. 

The only thing in the game that doesn't have a meta is open world, and Spvp because at least there no one can point a finger and tell me what to play. (regardless what MB tells me)

 

 

OH some of my favourite misconceptions. Let me step in. 

 

There is NO reason you can't do any of the content available with WHATEVER class and build you want, even if it's not optimal for a specific encounter. If there IS a reason, it's related to how YOU choose to play. 

 

Anet influences meta ... sure, but rest assured, there is CERTAINLY no question that Anet does not design the game content around it or create game content where metathink MUST be adhered to. Even in OW, there are optimal builds (which is an agreeable characteristic of what meta builds are), so don't think some limitation of where meta is applicable is an indication of where Anet needs to step in to address 'issues'. 

 

If you play how you want and play with other people that embrace playing how you want, you don't have a problem with 'meta' and the pushers. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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15 hours ago, Wuffy.9732 said:

I disagree with that sentiment... Slightly.

 

Sure, Anet is supposed to step in every now and then and change the playing field. But honestly, sometimes they do go too far. Just look at what they did to soulbeast and chronomancer. You can't sit there and tell us Anet doesn't have such a big influence on what the next meta is going to be lol.

But that's the thing ... it doesn't matter. Even if Anet wants to 'engineer' what is meta for some specific content, it doesn't impact people's ability to play what they want to successfully complete that content. In fact, if everyone played how they want, then Anet engineering meta would result in probably a small fraction of the population affected by that meta change because it's likely that most people don't even know what the meta is and if they do, don't necessarily play to it. 

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4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

But that's the thing ... it doesn't matter. Even if Anet wants to 'engineer' what is meta for some specific content, it doesn't impact people's ability to play what they want to successfully complete that content. In fact, if everyone played how they want, then Anet engineering meta would result in probably a small fraction of the population affected by that meta change because it's likely that most people don't even know what the meta is and if they do, don't necessarily play to it. 

 

I agree, that everyone can play what they want.

There's only one problem. If the biggest part of people is open world pve players.

And I believe that most of those players don't even know the word "meta" because they don't care.

But on the other side: you can't beat certain bosses in raids, if you don't balance around them. If you don't have enough healing or damage in the game, you might not able to beat them, or it would take hours to kill them (just search for solo kills of some bosses). And I don't think, that was the intention, when they added boss timers of 10 minutes.

 

In fact, you have to balance around the hardest content the game provides.

Open world players will not notice a difference of 2k DPS +/- if they are playing "suboptimal" builds because 1) most of the people play their own builds which leads to not damage optimized builds 2) in open world you will never have raid like buffs/boons unless it's some meta event bosses and some people are actually playing supporting builds as well.

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8 hours ago, Nimon.7840 said:

 

I agree, that everyone can play what they want.

There's only one problem. If the biggest part of people is open world pve players.

And I believe that most of those players don't even know the word "meta" because they don't care.

But on the other side: you can't beat certain bosses in raids, if you don't balance around them. If you don't have enough healing or damage in the game, you might not able to beat them, or it would take hours to kill them (just search for solo kills of some bosses). And I don't think, that was the intention, when they added boss timers of 10 minutes.

 

In fact, you have to balance around the hardest content the game provides.

Open world players will not notice a difference of 2k DPS +/- if they are playing "suboptimal" builds because 1) most of the people play their own builds which leads to not damage optimized builds 2) in open world you will never have raid like buffs/boons unless it's some meta event bosses and some people are actually playing supporting builds as well.

This has been discussed ... I mean, the biggest barrier for raid noobs isn't that they aren't playing meta builds and Anet already creates the 'hard' content in a way that experienced players using meta builds blow past them once they understand the mechanics. See, It's the raid mechanics themselves that are the challenge, not some DPS race. Anet already accommodates a wide range of builds/comps by the low threshold for success in raids. 

 

Basically, however Anet changes meta, it doesn't impact a whole lot of people IMO and definitely doesn't affect people's ability to complete content. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OH some of my favourite misconceptions. Let me step in. 

 

There is NO reason you can't do any of the content available with WHATEVER class and build you want, even if it's not optimal for a specific encounter. If there IS a reason, it's related to how YOU choose to play. 

 

Anet influences meta ... sure, but rest assured, there is CERTAINLY no question that Anet does not design the game content around it or create game content where metathink MUST be adhered to. Even in OW, there are optimal builds (which is an agreeable characteristic of what meta builds are), so don't think some limitation of where meta is applicable is an indication of where Anet needs to step in to address 'issues'. 

 

If you play how you want and play with other people that embrace playing how you want, you don't have a problem with 'meta' and the pushers. 

Well you are bit suck by your logic if Anet are hoping to get new players for EoD, then. If a new guy makes a reaper or ranger and anything else that's not meta, because they may not even realise it's a thing, should they be told to 'bring a proper class?' 

No. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Dami.5046 said:

Well you are bit suck by your logic if Anet are hoping to get new players for EoD, then. If a new guy makes a reaper or ranger and anything else that's not meta, because they may not even realise it's a thing, should they be told to 'bring a proper class?' 

No. 

 

That doesn't make sense. This isn't my logic, this is the way the game works since forever, even before HoT and PoF ... if EoD doesn't get new players, then it will be similar to the way HoT and PoF 'didn't get new players' as well. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't make sense. This isn't my logic, this is the way the game works since forever, even before HoT and PoF ... if EoD doesn't get new players, then it will be similar to the way HoT and PoF 'didn't get new players' as well. 

It was just an example. Take it how you will. 

Rest assured i can see where your views are going and i bid you good day.

But my points will stand, you won't change my mind.

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The example doesn't make sense because the game has always worked that way and we have already had 2 expansions in the past. Claiming GW2 won't get new players in EoD because people encounter metapushers in instanced content teams is certainly not a reason for Anet to change how the game has worked for the last 9 years. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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I'm wondering why some people think that ANet is responsible from what players ask from each other.

I think the funniest thing is that there are players in sPvP that actually think that a team without support should win against a team with support while players in PvE can't even imagine that it's possible to clear the content without a "rigid" meta composed of support, dps and tank.

 

1 hour ago, Dami.5046 said:

Well you are bit suck by your logic if Anet are hoping to get new players for EoD, then. If a new guy makes a reaper or ranger and anything else that's not meta, because they may not even realise it's a thing, should they be told to 'bring a proper class?' 

No.

ANet is not responsible of what other player want you to play. In fact all class are "proper", right now every single class have at least a build that have >35k dps potential, which is more than enough to clear the content.

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2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I'm wondering why some people think that ANet is responsible from what players ask from each other.

I think the funniest thing is that there are players in sPvP that actually think that a team without support should win against a team with support while players in PvE can't even imagine that it's possible to clear the content without a "rigid" meta composed of support, dps and tank.

 

ANet is not responsible of what other player want you to play. In fact all class are "proper", right now every single class have at least a build that have >35k dps potential, which is more than enough to clear the content.

All i'm saying is you aren't on my server.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

right now every single class have at least a build that have >35k dps potential, which is more than enough to clear the content.

Believe me, I agree with your statement.

 

But the reality is, threads like these only keep popping up because someone out there feels their class is under-performing compared to other classes. You essentially cannot win since everyone wants their damage to be highest, lol.

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1 minute ago, Wuffy.9732 said:

Believe me, I agree with your statement.

 

But the reality is, threads like these only keep popping up because someone out there feels their class is under-performing compared to other classes. You essentially cannot win since everyone wants their damage to be highest, lol.

I think the worst part is when players have obvious bias and don't know the limitations of builds.

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24 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I think the worst part is when players have obvious bias and don't know the limitations of builds.

 

well yeah everyone does have biases some towards one class or another. just look at the hate right now dragonhunters are getting with rune of scrapper was it? or the folks crying for theif to be nerfed.

 

Reaper is fine dmg wise, 34k or so is fine for beating the content.

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1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

well yeah everyone does have biases some towards one class or another. just look at the hate right now dragonhunters are getting with rune of scrapper was it? or the folks crying for theif to be nerfed.

 

Reaper is fine dmg wise, 34k or so is fine for beating the content.

It's trapper rune, but that's only relevant to PVP

PvP subforum has always been a cesspool.

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On 6/29/2021 at 8:40 AM, Dami.5046 said:

Then if various professions are incapable of 'partaking' then clearly that is Anet's fault.

But every profession is capable of partaking and completing the content, what are you even talking about right now?

 

On 6/29/2021 at 8:40 AM, Dami.5046 said:

Regardless of what class i decide to play, there should be no reason why I can't do any of the content available, and because that is not the case then there are major design issues from the start.

Which profession "can't do" which content exactly? This is just not the case.

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7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But every profession is capable of partaking and completing the content, what are you even talking about right now?

 

Which profession "can't do" which content exactly? This is just not the case.

You are speaking totally off-topic now .

Have a pleasant day. 🙂

Edited by Dami.5046
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6 hours ago, Dami.5046 said:

You are speaking totally off-topic now .

Have a pleasant day. 🙂

No, I'm not. I literally repsonded directly to what you said. I guess you have nothing to respond with, so it's time to run from your own words. Bye 🙂

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On 7/1/2021 at 12:22 AM, Dami.5046 said:

You are speaking totally off-topic now .

Have a pleasant day. 🙂

How is that off-topic?  You said all classes/professions can't do all content and they just asked which ones can't do what.

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On 6/30/2021 at 1:53 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

If you play how you want and play with other people that embrace playing how you want, you don't have a problem with 'meta' and the pushers.

That "If" doing a lot of heavy lifting in your entire argument, lol.

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6 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

That "If" doing a lot of heavy lifting in your entire argument, lol.

Not really ... how much work is it for someone to play how they want and find other people that do the same? It's actually pretty easy in this game since I doubt the majority of people are NOT playing how they want.

Edited by Obtena.7952
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