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Reaper needs a buff!


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9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not really ... how much work is it for someone to play how they want and find other people that do the same? It's actually pretty easy in this game since I doubt the majority of people are NOT playing how they want.

Thought, peoples that play how they want might want you to play how they want as well when grouping with them...

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21 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Thought, peoples that play how they want might want you to play how they want as well when grouping with them...

Sure ... but I said:

 

If you play how you want and play with other people that embrace playing how you want, you don't have a problem with 'meta' and the pushers.

 

Someone is suggesting this is an unlikely scenario in this game ... I think that's a very narrow view of how the game works. 

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1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... but I said:

 

If you play how you want and play with other people that embrace playing how you want, you don't have a problem with 'meta' and the pushers.

 

Someone is suggesting this is an unlikely scenario in this game ... I think that's a very narrow view of how the game works. 

Respect toward one another is usually in short supply in games, player embracing the "play how you want" mindset often stop themself at the personal part of the mindset instead of allowing other the same freedom.

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26 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Respect toward one another is usually in short supply in games, player embracing the "play how you want" mindset often stop themself at the personal part of the mindset instead of allowing other the same freedom.

Yes I agree. That isn't to say there is a 'heavy burden' on the 'if' of my statement. Put it this way ... if people are only going to do the absolute minimum to find a team, they get and deserve whatever that will throw at them. If people take the extra step to find groups/guilds where people respect how others want to play, then that is there and it's not hard to find. 

 

Doing the absolute minimum and having bad encounters with players is CERTAINLY no reason to give Reaper a buff. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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  • 2 weeks later...

The funny thing about GW2 community is how obsessed they are with all these benchmark...when 90% of them will never ever see or need those same numbers they treat as the holy gospel. Asking for buffs because apparently the class you like to play does 2-3k supposedly less dmg than a magic number written on a fanmade website that claim you must reach this number to apparently participate in the end game mode of this game....let's forget how rewarding is the spec for the levels of effort required to play it....no no "I want buffs because the benchmark says so...".....

 

 

Reaper is already super easy to play compared to the "top" builds in this ridiculous benchmark table, just stop for one moment and think about how selfish you are, there is something called balance!

 

If you want your fabled 40k dmg why don't you play melee weaver and be "top class"? Ha yes...not as easy to play that melee raid build, 11k HP...no sustain pure melee...lol

Edited by Arheundel.6451
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4 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

If you want your fabled 40k dmg why don't you play melee weaver and be "top class"? Ha yes...not as easy to play that melee raid build, 11k HP...no sustain pure melee...lol

There's a lot of numbers between 40k and what, 32 reaper now sits on? Quite a lot of numbers in fact. Funny that you posted this particular video, because it goes into great detail on what makes guards so powerful. Guess how many of those things reaper has? Oh, right, about as much as weaver. Bonus points for yes, easier rotation and marginally higher survivability. Lose all those points for being almost bottom of the barrel power DPS, barely outdamaging dedicated boon dispensers.

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10 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

There's a lot of numbers between 40k and what, 32 reaper now sits on? Quite a lot of numbers in fact. Funny that you posted this particular video, because it goes into great detail on what makes guards so powerful. Guess how many of those things reaper has? Oh, right, about as much as weaver. Bonus points for yes, easier rotation and marginally higher survivability. Lose all those points for being almost bottom of the barrel power DPS, barely outdamaging dedicated boon dispensers.

Again, this comparison approach. I'm certain comparing classes is not how Anet views this, or if they do, it's some black box that no one could possibly guess how it works anyways ... so it shouldn't be how you or anyone else does either if you want to be relevant in the discussion. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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1 hour ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

There's a lot of numbers between 40k and what, 32 reaper now sits on? Quite a lot of numbers in fact. Funny that you posted this particular video, because it goes into great detail on what makes guards so powerful. Guess how many of those things reaper has? Oh, right, about as much as weaver. Bonus points for yes, easier rotation and marginally higher survivability. Lose all those points for being almost bottom of the barrel power DPS, barely outdamaging dedicated boon dispensers.

 

Reaper is at around 34k, which is fine.

Also, "difficulty" is highly subjective and dependant on the player's and it's teammates abilities and builds synergy. So, yes if your team is poor and your understanding of the encounter is poor, reaper is easier to play? If both your team and your understanding of the encounter is good, Reaper is neither easier nor harder to play because you've already the tools to trivialize the encounter.

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1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, this comparison approach. I'm certain comparing classes is not how Anet views this, or if they do, it's some black box that no one could possibly guess how it works anyways ... so it shouldn't be how you or anyone else does either if you want to be relevant in the discussion. 

Oh please. Like you are ever relevant to any discussion you crusade in. I understand and accept your point of view, to a degree, but you're pushing it to such stupid levels.

 

Reaper exists in a game with 8 other classes and 17 other specs. It's not a spherical cow in vacuum to be adored in perfect isolation.
 

Reaper is mathematically weaker than pretty much any other dedicated power DPS (I think only scrapper lags behind us, but boy do they have survivability up their kitten). It's objectively weaker than condi Scourge in any department that doesn't deal with breakbars - and even there scourge can catch up reasonably well. Reaper is also objectively not team-friendly. Always has been.

 

I'm not asking for guardians levels of broken kitten. But there is plenty of room to increase Reaper damage without breaking it, still accounting for survivability and simplicity. And each time, I mean EACH time reaper actually got damage buffs, there were always people like you running around and screeching "ohnoes, reaper is so simple it doesn't need damage buffs". Guess developers don't agree with you, huh? And their word is sacred and locked in black box, after all.

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12 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

Reaper is at around 34k, which is fine.

Also, "difficulty" is highly subjective and dependant on the player's and it's teammates abilities and builds synergy. So, yes if your team is poor and your understanding of the encounter is poor, reaper is easier to play? If both your team and your understanding of the encounter is good, Reaper is neither easier nor harder to play because you've already the tools to trivialize the encounter.

Well, I stand corrected. It's still relatively low - the only power builds worse off are spellbreakers, scrappers and heralds. And all 3 can pump out support with minimal damage loss. Pardon me for not being excited on "hey, we're bottom 4, not 3". Still not much reason to play reaper, and getting rid of "hey it's good in bad teams" argument doesn't help either.

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4 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

Well, I stand corrected. It's still relatively low - the only power builds worse off are spellbreakers, scrappers and heralds. And all 3 can pump out support with minimal damage loss. Pardon me for not being excited on "hey, we're bottom 4, not 3". Still not much reason to play reaper, and getting rid of "hey it's good in bad teams" argument doesn't help either.

 

I'm not great at Mes but i wasn't getting similar numbers as ez on chrono, plus being more fragile.

 

In my opinion reaper is fine.

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44 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Condi reaper has 35,5K dps at the golem. Just saying, since your dps information seems outdated.

 

/a non PvE player

 

 

35.5k is condi build numbers, 34.3k is power build numbers. Anyway, condi numbers rely on whirling with Soul spiral into executioner's scythe's ice field which is not really realist.

 

Anyway, with such numbers, the spec is fine, no need for buffs.

Edited by Dadnir.5038
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2 hours ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

Reaper is mathematically weaker than pretty much any other dedicated power DPS (I think only scrapper lags behind us, but boy do they have survivability up their kitten). It's objectively weaker than condi Scourge in any department that doesn't deal with breakbars - and even there scourge can catch up reasonably well. Reaper is also objectively not team-friendly. Always has been.

OH it's mathematical now? Like there is an equation and you happen to know what it is? And you happen to know that if you plug 'Reaper' into that equation, you get a result outside the threshold of what Anet deems acceptable?

 

No, you don't know any of that. Here is what I DO know ... May11th we got a massive balance patch and you know how many changes they made to reaper? Exactly ZERO. So while you can convince yourself that Reaper is 'mathematically' weaker than lots of things or that between class comparisons are relevant indicators of what should change, those things obviously have zero relevance to how Reaper works in the game. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, you don't know any of that. Here is what I DO know ... May11th we got a massive balance patch and you know how many changes they made to reaper? Exactly ZERO. So while you can convince yourself that Reaper is 'mathematically' weaker than lots of things or that between class comparisons are relevant indicators of what should change, those things obviously have zero relevance to how Reaper works in the game. 

 

No change on a patch (however massive it is) doesn't mean that something work properly. For example, we got pvp traits on many professions with a 300s CD that were advertised as temporary fix yet passed throught many massive patchs without seein any change in 1.5 years.

 

Also there was a change on reaper in the may 11th patch note and most of the core change impacted it as well.

 

Quote

Infusing Terror: This skill can now be used in midair so that it better functions with Death's Charge

 

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11 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

No change on a patch (however massive it is) doesn't mean that something work properly. For example, we got pvp traits on many professions with a 300s CD that were advertised as temporary fix yet passed throught many massive patchs without seein any change in 1.5 years.

 

Also there was a change on reaper in the may 11th patch note and most of the core change impacted it as well.

 

 

No it doesn't that's correct, but it IS an indication of where Anet wants the class to be and where it is. Here is my take; either the necro is SOO F'ed up that it needs it's own patch because the changes are just too extensive... or it's exactly where Anet wants it to be. If Reaper needed 'a buff', it would have gotten what it needed on May 11th, but it didn't, so it's somehow exceptional. 

 

What I do know is that players who simply apply their own metrics to conclude Reaper 'needs buffs' because class Y does 'something better' are much more likely to be wrong than those that take clues from what Anet says and does. I think we know at this point, who does what better is quite irrelevant when talking about class balance.

Edited by Obtena.7952
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4 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

35.5k is condi build numbers, 34.3k is power build numbers. Anyway, condi numbers rely on whirling with Soul spiral into executioner's scythe's ice field which is not really realist.

 

Anyway, with such numbers, the spec is fine, no need for buffs.

 

"Not really realistic" is the keyword when it comes to golem damage in general. In reality reaper and scourge do as much dps as the top tier golem builds (video proof: youtube).

 

Now you can argue, that people just watch the golem and you can't expect them to understand reality and ANet has to fix this (basically via streamlining class mechanics). And this is where an endless discussion starts (like this thread showcases).

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17 hours ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

There's a lot of numbers between 40k and what, 32 reaper now sits on? Quite a lot of numbers in fact. Funny that you posted this particular video, because it goes into great detail on what makes guards so powerful. Guess how many of those things reaper has? Oh, right, about as much as weaver. Bonus points for yes, easier rotation and marginally higher survivability. Lose all those points for being almost bottom of the barrel power DPS, barely outdamaging dedicated boon dispensers.

You'd have to be that 1% guitar hero level of gameplay and with the addition of a coordinated and experienced team to get those numbers on ele on average, while on the other hand "the bottom of the barrel" spec like reaper comfortably reaches this 34k benchmark without the input of extreme situations. Basically your average pug ele won't ever see that 40k...not even half of it really, meanwhile the average reaper player just has to find a "non kitten" group of players who actually know what they're talking about and who don't talk gibberish about "that or that other class".But if you disagree we can go and verify the ratio of eles to necros on average pug runs.

 

It's not even about buffing or not reaper, it's about the reason behind all the drawbacks a class like ele must suffer to reach this fabled 40k, as @MightyTeapot.2093 said...there is already no reason to use an ele over anything in raid, it sacrifice sustain for dmg..the same levels of dmg another profession reaches while not losing any sustain and instead offering boon support and more

Edited by Arheundel.6451
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Death Perception and Decimate defenses are two traits that (conditionally) grant a *lot* of free stats to the Reaper, and they are actually what is holding the spec back. Remove the bonus precision from them, rework accordingly. That'll open up a lot of other changes and itemization for Reaper.

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On 5/26/2021 at 9:00 PM, LuRkEr.9462 said:

The DPS isn't the problem, a good reaper can do ok DPS. The issue is it brings nothing to the group like aegis, spirits, buffs, etc. People don't take reaper because of the DPS issue, they don't take reaper because the group gets more out of taking a different class.

 

Reapers should taunt rather than fear targets. (number of affected enemies would increase x% life force healing for y sec).

Lure the enemy to its death 😛

This would also make reaper to what Anet said that is a class that  performs better atacking more enemies.

 

@Arheundel.6451, very good video.

Edited by Aeolus.3615
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On 6/30/2021 at 5:40 PM, Dami.5046 said:

It was just an example. Take it how you will. 

Rest assured i can see where your views are going and i bid you good day.

But my points will stand, you won't change my mind.

But reaper is viable, just gotta practice the rotation.

 

With 34k DPS and possibly if chillmancer is 36k that means they would both be viable in pve raids. Reaper can get tons of stacks of might and do tons of stacks of vuln.

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On 7/20/2021 at 11:44 AM, Axl.8924 said:

But reaper is viable, just gotta practice the rotation.

The rotation is the primary problem of zerk Reaper. What career has to use auto attack chains seven times in a row? How can that be allowed to be the max dps rotation? Ontop of that alot of skills have an aftercast that needs to be skiped to come close to those "fine" numbers. (Thanks for the over a second long cast time on Gravedigger btw.)

Condi Reaper numbers are massivly bloated on the Golem. The reliance on a chill field that can be overwritten is horrible in raids. There are no other careers that provide chill fields, just a druid and a bunch of Firebrands that place light fields absolutly everywhere.

Entering the Shroud at the wrong time is also a major dps loss and completely screws your rotation. If you get hit during Shroud, which is not something outlandish, you are pressed to recover from that loss. 

 

34k, or 36k is just silly for a spec that delivers nothing of value for his team. You dont stack might, provide buffs, grant aegis, a unique buff, or bolster your damage via other means like FB, or Ren. You just hit stuff.

 

I get that Reaper is a strong pick as roamer, and decent in PvP, especially thanks to his second lifebar, but in PvE, where his Reaper Shroud is basically a mana bar, not a safty cushion, he is just awful. Awful to play and awfully useless.

 

Alot of people in this thread seem to never have done group content as Reaper, nor even tried his rotation on the Golem.

 

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9 minutes ago, Radina.6057 said:

The rotation is the primary problem of zerk Reaper. What career has to use auto attack chains seven times in a row? How can that be allowed to be the max dps rotation? Ontop of that alot of skills have an aftercast that needs to be skiped to come close to those "fine" numbers. (Thanks for the over a second long cast time on Gravedigger btw.)

Condi Reaper numbers are massivly bloated on the Golem. The reliance on a chill field that can be overwritten is horrible in raids. There are no other careers that provide chill fields, just a druid and a bunch of Firebrands that place light fields absolutly everywhere.

Entering the Shroud at the wrong time is also a major dps loss and completely screws your rotation. If you get hit during Shroud, which is not something outlandish, you are pressed to recover from that loss. 

 

34k, or 36k is just silly for a spec that delivers nothing of value for his team. You dont stack might, provide buffs, grant aegis, a unique buff, or bolster your damage via other means like FB, or Ren. You just hit stuff.

 

I get that Reaper is a strong pick as roamer, and decent in PvP, especially thanks to his second lifebar, but in PvE, where his Reaper Shroud is basically a mana bar, not a safty cushion, he is just awful. Awful to play and awfully useless.

 

Alot of people in this thread seem to never have done group content as Reaper, nor even tried his rotation on the Golem.

 

Well there are some classes that just deal damage too without giving the team anything:

Holosmith

Weaver

Warrior (if not bs)

Thief

Dragonhunter 

And reaper as u said.

 

Why would you even want to give boons since the hfb in ur team gives everything to ur team anyway. 

 

And you have good sustain and nice self-boons as reaper. 

Not every spec has to be a supporter too.

 

I agree that if they r not, that they should at least be on top dps.

Things like firebrand should not exist like that in my opinion. Being ultimate support and ultimate dps.

 

But it wouldn't be fair if a 11.6k hp or sth would deal same damage as reaper.

I think if reaper gets a 1k dps buff it would be in a good Spot. Scourge needs a nerf tho. 

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4 hours ago, Radina.6057 said:

The rotation is the primary problem of zerk Reaper. What career has to use auto attack chains seven times in a row? How can that be allowed to be the max dps rotation? Ontop of that alot of skills have an aftercast that needs to be skiped to come close to those "fine" numbers. (Thanks for the over a second long cast time on Gravedigger btw.)

Condi Reaper numbers are massivly bloated on the Golem. The reliance on a chill field that can be overwritten is horrible in raids. There are no other careers that provide chill fields, just a druid and a bunch of Firebrands that place light fields absolutly everywhere.

Entering the Shroud at the wrong time is also a major dps loss and completely screws your rotation. If you get hit during Shroud, which is not something outlandish, you are pressed to recover from that loss. 

 

34k, or 36k is just silly for a spec that delivers nothing of value for his team. You dont stack might, provide buffs, grant aegis, a unique buff, or bolster your damage via other means like FB, or Ren. You just hit stuff.

 

I get that Reaper is a strong pick as roamer, and decent in PvP, especially thanks to his second lifebar, but in PvE, where his Reaper Shroud is basically a mana bar, not a safty cushion, he is just awful. Awful to play and awfully useless.

 

Alot of people in this thread seem to never have done group content as Reaper, nor even tried his rotation on the Golem.

 

 

I have i've done both fractals tier 3 and raids on my character, and i haven't forgotten a time where you end up with peeps screaming for you to play a good class for raids.

 

Sure they are problems, but its not as bad as it used to be, because reaper is far more viable than it used to be.

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MightyTeapot posted a video where he did all raidbosses with a support scourge (plaguedoctor or sth.) composition, that is unkillable even when controlled by complete idiots. This comp was 10% slower than the speedrun world record. So much about golem dps.

 

A general question:

Is there any class where any spec is usful in any content? And shouldn't we ask about core necro dps buffs in the first place because core has not even aoe like reaper. Reaper is great in pvp, wvw, open world and in general at cleaving. Core is trash everywhere besides at sustaining melee 1v1 in pvp.

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