PvP: Sometimes i dont know where to go in Conquest ?

[LtCleavage.8102]

Hi Community !

 

So i have been playing pvp for quite some time and i keep having the issue of not knowing where to go. Where i would do the most good and dont commit to it.

On classes with some mobility its not to punishing but on classes who are slow its extremly frustraiting.

For instance i really enjoy power reaper atm, and have been "crushing" 2v2 with it. But in Conquest i sometimes find myself at a loss of how to procede.

2v2 is "easy" just kill the other guys. But with conquest there is so much to take into account. How long it takes to cap, is it worth holding a node, should i run, where should i go in general etc.

 

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Scenario:

My Team: Blue

Enemy Team : Red

 

Our Scourge is sitting on mid waiting for someone to show up. 

There are 2 red players at far where i just died and another player is bareling haning on.

2 of our teammates are close against 3  of theirs, but i wont make it in time to turn the engagement.

 

So neither far nor close are an option because when i show up the rest of the team will be out already and i will just be killed by the enemy team. Where do i go in such a scenario ?

That was just i hypothetical encounter. But it happens to me regulary that i just dont know where to go.

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A few matches ago it happend that a scourges was fighting 2v1 at our close and i though i will help him out so we can secure it so they dont kill him and cap. And when i got there and we killed the two the scourge snapped at me that "he was good, and i should never come to help".

 

I mostly win more games then i loose and am currently sitting in g3 (allthough i think i shouldnt be as high up) so i know the game mode. But i still feel i missplay alot and dont know where to move. Is it sometimes feasable to just wait at spawn for the others ? I really dont know.

 

Are their any good guides? or Tipps ? because i feel like i am not improving and when i think i take the right choice often people disagree. This might just be the nature of pvp where people are quick to insult teammates, but i still think i should improve.

 

 

 

Any help would be very much appreciated!

Greetings

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Just wanna note this is an actual good PvP thread. 

 

Don't get too upset about teammates snapping at you. This is going to be a learning process.

 

Generally, you want to go where matches can be won quickly, avoid where they cannot be won quickly, and occupy uncontested nodes where you can be reinforced. These priorities might have nuance depending on classes.

 

For example, that scourge probably was upset with you because he was built bunker, and that he could stall 2 players from the opposing team on the point all on his own. If he's doing that, that means the rest of the map is effectively 4vs3, so you could have gone anywhere else and wiped enemy team. 

 

Another example is that, as thief, you do not want to be in engagements for long periods of time. Good thieves focus on decapping points to force someone to monitor them, swooping in and stealing objectives, or quickly turning  1v1 fights by outnumbering them. You will make different choices playing thief that you would, say, warrior. 

 

What I'd suggest is familiarize yourself with the most played versions of each class and their specs, and if those players show up in your game assume they are playing that unless they mention otherwise or prove otherwise.

 

37 minutes ago, LtCleavage.8102 said:

Our Scourge is sitting on mid waiting for someone to show up. 

There are 2 red players at far where i just died and another player is bareling haning on.

2 of our teammates are close against 3  of theirs, but i wont make it in time to turn the engagement.

 

So neither far nor close are an option because when i show up the rest of the team will be out already and i will just be killed by the enemy team. Where do i go in such a scenario ?

 

This one is rough and you should regroup. You could handle this in a few ways. Since you are first out of the death gate and only your scourge is on the map (Assume your teammate at far is going to die), you can assume everyone is going to convene on him. Good players wont wait at far to be nuked by respawns unless they are bunker, and their home will be occupied the moment your friend dies. Mid is the path of least resistance and any enemy player on the map can move mid with it being a strategically good move at his particular time. 

 

First thing you should do is alert scourge he's prob going to get converged on at mid. If you are also a bunker, you may consider joining him at mid, but if you are not, forget it. You'll want to flip home asap, and ideally have your scourge not kill himself at mid based on where  the enemies are going. He should tuck himself into a cranny or rotate toward home along a route where he will not meet enemies or where it will be difficult to kill him before help arrives. there are usually 3 ish routes between the nodes, so alerting scourge to mid should help him choose the right course here. 

 

Waiting a little would be prudent here, followed by flipping home. you will (hopefully) gain reinforcements from respawns if any of the 3 that just won the node decide to come back.  There may be nuance to this depending on the teams, how the enemy group splits after winning home, what your class is, etc.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Noz.4650]

Even the best players make bad rotations, even if some don't like to admit it. Conquest is so fast-paced and requires players to make so many game changing decisions at any given moment that anyone is subject to making mistakes no matter how good they are. Once you understand that, you shouldn't worry as much about making "the best" decision every time, but about making at least "good value" decisions that sometimes happen to be "the best". Good players rarely make strictly bad decisions, but use their experience and knowledge to feel a match and at the very least bring their team some value while continuously analyzing the state of the match in their head, leading to fluid micro/macro adjustments to turn good decisions into best decisions. If you only worry about if your rotations are either bad or the best, you need to change your mindset. And by the way, people often forget that sometimes the highest value play is actually doing nothing.

 

Before the match even starts, this is where you want to formulate a game plan depending on the variables you're given from your team comp and the enemy team comp. Ask yourself how the role of your build fits within both comps, and assess what would constitute a bad rotation then how would you bring value to your team. Given a set of variables as a reaper, you might think:

-I'll need to match their dps player in teamfights

-They have a lot of catch so I'll need to be extra careful with my positioning

-We have a support so I'll try to stay close to them

 

The more complete of a game plan you can formulate before the match starts, the less likely you'll make a strictly bad rotation. And as long as the game plan is solid and you stick to it, the more likely your rotations will bring your team value. The main purpose of this is to free as much of your mental stack as possible for actually adapting during the match.

 

During the match -- especially in ranked where things are extremely volatile -- is where you adjust and adapt your game plan from all the new variables thrown your way in real time. If things are going your way, try playing a proactive and predictive game to stay a step ahead of the enemy. If things aren't going your way, analyze what is going wrong while falling back on your conquest fundamentals to stall the map control your enemy is getting as much as possible. Sometimes you lose a fight because of mechanical decisions, not rotational decisions, so no big change to your game plan is needed.

 

In your first scenario, without knowing every single variable and if all enemy players were accounted for before you died, then the scourge could've went home to offset the fact that you had a losing fight far so you'd have at least 3 players stay alive, or helped you far if home has something like a support and a side noder fighting 2v3. However as a reaper you have to be careful what you push into and always have a plan B to disengage. If you see your support is determined to afk mid no matter what, you also have to adapt to that. To me it sounds like your comp would be better off playing the two node game and you overextended far. Of course it all depends on who was fighting who and if you owned one or both of the side nodes. So what should you have done after respawning? Glance at your teammates health and if home is doing alright, repush it and draw on the map for the scourge to join and cross your fingers he does. Otherwise play very defensive and wait for your team to respawn. 

 

In your second scenario, again it depends on a lot of things. Consider who is fighting your scourge 2v1 and if they even have killing potential and what other fights are happening elsewhere. Consider that while your scourge is 1v2 on one node, your team is 4v3 on the rest of the map. Can you take advantage of that? As a reaper I'd say that is more important than helping your scourge sustain. For example, your scourge uses a bunch of defensive cooldowns to stay alive, you join in as a squishy reaper and you get focused then your scourge has nothing to peel for you and you die. If your scourge is able to not die, even if he loses the cap he can repush the 1v1 and most likely get an easy decap regardless. So for this one I'd say you probably missed out on an opportunity for more map control with numbers advantage. Sucks that the guy had to be toxic about it but see it as a point to reflect on and analyze why that person was angry at your decision, whether their sentiment was right or not.

 

Vallun has the best educational channel about understanding PvP and build better conquest fundamentals. Also shameless plug for my guide in my signature which also has links to additional resources if you wish.

[Locuz.2651]

This is the key to GW2 pvp but also the hardest thing to describe.

 

Its super situational. Depending on your comp, the situation of every skirmish going on on the map, the profs u counter and where they are, the skilllevel of specific teammates. 

 

Typically its a numbers game. But you also have siuations where certain teammates can sustain...like core guard + scourge vs 3 for example.  

 

Maybe i read past it but what prof/ build do u play?

 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Like @Locuz.2651 points out, gw2 pvp is highly situational, and that's not conjecture! A pvp match can start out in about 120 different possible configurations, and the evolution of an entire spvp match can have a very large number of possible configurations...

 

People like Sindrener developed easy to break down ways in determining rotation, and it's best described as trying to be in a position where your team, always outnumbers the other team, and snowballing matches so that you are in a constant state of advantage. Knowing all the possible configurations a pvp match can go down seems like a good place to start, but you simply can never know what the enemy will do too far ahead into the future, so you make judgment calls based on the previous configuration! out of 120 different possible scenario's, based on the set up of the previous  scenario, some rotations will be good for you, others will be bad for you. Choosing the one that is "better" then the choice of the opponent is really all you need to give yourself an advantage. Choosing the best ones is an art entirely. 

 

 

 

 

[bethekey.8314]

5 hours ago, LtCleavage.8102 said:

Scenario:

My Team: Blue

Enemy Team : Red

 

Our Scourge is sitting on mid waiting for someone to show up. 

There are 2 red players at far where i just died and another player is bareling haning on.

2 of our teammates are close against 3  of theirs, but i wont make it in time to turn the engagement.

 

So neither far nor close are an option because when i show up the rest of the team will be out already and i will just be killed by the enemy team. Where do i go in such a scenario ?

That was just i hypothetical encounter. But it happens to me regulary that i just dont know where to go.

----------

 

*cracks knuckles*

Ok sonny, listen up. Guild Wars 2 PvP is a Kitten eat Kitten world--only the strongest survive. Here's whatcha gotta do:

 

First things first, you need to cover your own death. Blame that Scourge, he's an easy target. No one respects Scourges anymore after that mess of a 2v2 season. Spam pings on him to alert everyone's attention and call him Bronze trash. Block him immediately.

 

Next, go to where the most of your teammates are currently fighting (home) so they see you and think you're contributing. You'll still lose, but you've now built up credibility and got the majority of your team on your side. Re-blame the Scourge for your sins like some necromancer Jesus, or, if you're feeling like shaking it up, the guy you abandoned at far.

 

Once the loss screen pops up, you instantly hit up map chat with a "gg ez" confusing your more skilled opponents for the next round. Remember Scourge Jesus you blocked? You watch his status and sync queue to try and get him back on your team. Scourges are broken af.

 

And that, my friend, is the beauty of Guild Wars 2 PvP.

 

[Crozame.4098]

Whats your class and build? Without this information its hard to give advice. But you should know that your team will get snow balled hard.

Think about what will happen when you are respawning:

It is likely that far will die fast because of 1v2. And also close will die fast because of 2v3. After this, 2-3 of their team will rotate to mid to kill your scourge.

And if you push out alone and not being careful, you will also die when facing 2 or more opponents.

From this point on, your team will be 4v5ing on the map, and hence get snow balled.

 

So what you do depends on your role. If you are support with ressing power, maybe go close to ress and reset the fight.

If you are a duelist bunker, you can push far again, so that you can retake far and maybe keep 1v2 after your teammates lost mid and close.

Or maybe you can also help mid to make it 2v3, kite around a bit for your other teammates to come back.

And lastly, you can also wait a bit for them to respawn, which is called regroup.

 

About second part. Yes, in most of the case, the duelist would like to hold 1v2 so that you outnumber other nodes. But sometimes there is no other places to be. The key here is to be flexible. You can go and help a bit while keep checking the minimap, when there are better places to go, you can disengage if the fight is too long, again, this depends on your build.

But there is one hard rule:

If your teammate is 1v2ing with their support, never go help.

 

About map rotation. I would suggest you check Sindrener's older vids on YouTube, back then when the meta is not this tanky, map rotation was more important. And back then he explained more about map rotation.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Crozame.4098

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

51 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

*cracks knuckles*

Ok sonny, listen up. Guild Wars 2 PvP is a Kitten eat Kitten world--only the strongest survive. Here's whatcha gotta do:

 

First things first, you need to cover your own death. Blame that Scourge, he's an easy target. No one respects Scourges anymore after that mess of a 2v2 season. Spam pings on him to alert everyone's attention and call him Bronze trash. Block him immediately.

 

Next, go to where the most of your teammates are currently fighting (home) so they see you and think you're contributing. You'll still lose, but you've now built up credibility and got the majority of your team on your side. Re-blame the Scourge for your sins like some necromancer Jesus, or, if you're feeling like shaking it up, the guy you abandoned at far.

 

Once the loss screen pops up, you instantly hit up map chat with a "gg ez" confusing your more skilled opponents for the next round. Remember Scourge Jesus you blocked? You watch his status and sync queue to try and get him back on your team. Scourges are broken af.

 

And that, my friend, is the beauty of Guild Wars 2 PvP.

 

 

Listen here you.

 

Nice condi engie, don't hurt me.