Miss Obstructed -- Ranged weapon hit issues

[bethekey.8314]

This happens way too often for me on Engineer, which has the least amount of usable weapons:

 

https://youtu.be/3_RX-atdPzU

 

I believe it has something to do with even slight height differentials between you and your target. It's so common that it's a major consideration when I choose which weapons to use.

 

I stopped using offhand pistol because of this. It literally misses downed, stationary targets:

 

https://youtu.be/2UhyrezOklY?t=213

 

Meanwhile bows are still hitting beyond 2k range. Fix this quality of life issue.

 

FAQ

You played poorly!

- I don't care.

 

You lagged!

- No I didn't.

 

It works for me!

- I notice things more.

Edited May 27, 2021 by bethekey.8314

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

lol did you make these videos? These are great.

 

In that second link, the part at the end with the jump pad, that is some serious bigfoot lochness level footage there, displaying lag as a sentient entity ganking someone. This is amazing.

[Shao.7236]

I don't want to like, imply the git gud mentality here but those are just.. Flaws build into the game functions, can be compensated for most of the time.

 

They're really upsetting but there ain't much to be done without making oversized hitboxes that would make the game even more confusing.

 

Like that point blank pistol 4 is annoying cuz you want damage but then too close messes it up.

 

That net laughably missed because it was a dodge jump into a lower level, gotta love that.

[Jumpel.3972]

From my Deadeye experience, i have those problem at long range and it's link to the projectile velocity (to slow).

 

Far before they accelerate longbow ranger's projectile to make it viable at long range but they never care for other prof/weapon

[Dawdler.8521]

Offhand pistol is... interesting... in its functionality, to say the least. Heres the thing - you cant see the cone AoE. You cant judge the edges or the range (funny since it also has 2 ranges, thanks Anet). But that cone seem to move depending on the movement of your character. I've had it fire literally 90 degrees off.

 

For the main hand, first off it fires on around 0.75s cd, compared to the 0.5s its actually specced for in the description. Its also very sensitive to lag which can cause it to fire far slower. And straight through objects. Or simply vanish on a target that doesnt miss/evade/block/absorb/etc.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

call it compensation for being hit through walls and pillars. both should be fixed tho.

[bethekey.8314]

11 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

lol did you make these videos? These are great.

 

In that second link, the part at the end with the jump pad, that is some serious bigfoot lochness level footage there, displaying lag as a sentient entity ganking someone. This is amazing.

 

I did, thanks.

 

It really does feel like some RNG element in the game deciding you lose. It's beyond frustrating, but at least it's usually humorous in retrospect.

 

One of the reasons I'm able to capture these random events often is because of Shadowplay on my graphics card. Just continuously recording a small, fixed length video, and only saving it when something interesting happens.

[felix.2386]

server lag, it has been like this for some time now.

 

there's heavy movement prediction in anet server to counter delay, since its an mmo. which is what i think happened there, server predicted he moved behind the pillar, but he didnt.

 

just like how before you could retarget with rush and still manage to hit some time because theres less delay, but now retargeting with rush basically makes you miss the target by a million miles, because theres more delay now.

 

the longer the cast time, the more exposed one skill is toward latency, which is why warrior has been heavy victim for so long.

Edited May 27, 2021 by felix.2386

[bethekey.8314]

9 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

I don't want to like, imply the git gud mentality here but those are just.. Flaws build into the game functions, can be compensated for most of the time.

 

They're really upsetting but there ain't much to be done without making oversized hitboxes that would make the game even more confusing.

 

Like that point blank pistol 4 is annoying cuz you want damage but then too close messes it up.

 

That net laughably missed because it was a dodge jump into a lower level, gotta love that.

 

I get what you're saying, but if they can make this happen (VOLUME WARNING) https://youtu.be/2UhyrezOklY?t=168 then they can make my most important abilities land too. Pistol 4, Net Shot, and Overcharged shot make up arguably the most important skills on their weapons. If these randomly just miss/obstructed, the weapon is essentially useless imo.

 

Do you know of other classes / skills that are similarly impacted?

 

9 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

From my Deadeye experience, i have those problem at long range and it's link to the projectile velocity (to slow).

 

Yeah I think you're right about the projectile speed being a factor. It may depend on perspective, but I think DE bullets have a little more leeway because this happens to me often:

 

 

5 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

call it compensation for being hit through walls and pillars. both should be fixed tho.

 

But fire wraps around objects naturally, bullets do not and should not 😛

Edited May 27, 2021 by bethekey.8314

[felix.2386]

3 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

I get what you're saying, but if they can make this happen https://youtu.be/2UhyrezOklY?t=168 then they can make my most important abilities land too. Pistol 4, Net Shot, and Overcharged shot make up arguably the most important skills on their weapons. If these randomly just miss/obstructed, the weapon is essentially useless imo.

 

you always had that tho, as an engineer you never noticed bullets that turn 90 degrees to hit your target behind wall? i get that all the time on rifle

Edited May 27, 2021 by felix.2386

[bethekey.8314]

13 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

you always had that tho, as an engineer you never noticed bullets that turn 90 degrees to hit your target behind wall? i get that all the time on rifle

No not really. Because of their speed/bugs, I'd go as far as to say I've never had Overcharged / Net shot "turn" to help me.

 

For auto attacks, I personally don't care if they sometimes hit through walls. If big hits are going through, then it's more of a problem.

Edited May 27, 2021 by bethekey.8314

[Shao.7236]

@bethekey.8314 So as stupid as it sounds, the Warrior Bullscharge is actually how delayed interpolation is on the servers, it may not look like the player has crossed the pillow to hit you but believe me on their screen they have and that's where the lag compensation falls short since it takes time for you on your screen to get the info to update as everything the game really care for is confirmation whether either had made contact or not.

 

It's the same thing depending on projectile velocity, Revenant Forced Engagement and Frigid Blitz do the same thing.

 

It only gets worst when people have bad ping, especially with their evade delay. Whenever I fight EU/laggy players, anytime I try to hit them at the end of evade like I normally do, it misses.

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, Shao.7236 said:

@bethekey.8314 So as stupid as it sounds, the Warrior Bullscharge is actually how delayed interpolation is on the servers, it may not look like the player has crossed the pillow to hit you but believe me on their screen they have and that's where the lag compensation falls short since it takes time for you on your screen to get the info to update as everything the game really care for is confirmation whether either had made contact or not.

 

Lag is a cop-out excuse. Some skills like Bulls Charge are notorious for going out of their way to hit you, while others, like Overcharged / Net shot don't. If this was some fundamental server issue, then behavior should be roughly equivalent. It's not, and I want equality.

 

And even assuming moderate latency, based on the how the warrior moved after Rush's confirmed hit and the time he had to get LoS before Bulls Charge, I don't believe he ever had LoS. If he did for a brief moment, Bulls Charge still did 2 separate turns around the pillar corners to reach me. That, is bull.

 

 

 

[Shao.7236]

33 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

Lag is a cop-out excuse. Some skills like Bulls Charge are notorious for going out of their way to hit you, while others, like Overcharged / Net shot don't. If this was some fundamental server issue, then behavior should be roughly equivalent. It's not, and I want equality.

 

And even assuming moderate latency, based on the how the warrior moved after Rush's confirmed hit and the time he had to get LoS before Bulls Charge, I don't believe he ever had LoS. If he did for a brief moment, Bulls Charge still did 2 separate turns around the pillar corners to reach me. That, is bull.

 

 

 

Player position is much different compared projectiles. That's just how it works in any games, you should look at how interp works and how it falls short. If those were hitscans it'd be much less problematic, that bullscharge stuff happens all the time to the point where it's easily repeatable to verify the facts.

 

Rush on the other hand has a massive hitbox that just straight goes thru pillar. I've seen it abused a lot.

[Vancho.8750]

5 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

server lag, it has been like this for some time now.

 

there's heavy movement prediction in anet server to counter delay, since its an mmo. which is what i think happened there, server predicted he moved behind the pillar, but he didnt.

 

just like how before you could retarget with rush and still manage to hit some time because theres less delay, but now retargeting with rush basically makes you miss the target by a million miles, because theres more delay now.

 

the longer the cast time, the more exposed one skill is toward latency, which is why warrior has been heavy victim for so long.

My favourite is Throw Axe, it goes into space sometimes or Grasping darkness where it goes over elevations but mostly it disappears into walls. And I thought we didn't have hit chance in the game lolz. 

[bethekey.8314]

5 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Player position is much different compared projectiles. That's just how it works in any games, you should look at how interp works and how it falls short. If those were hitscans it'd be much less problematic, that bullscharge stuff happens all the time to the point where it's easily repeatable to verify the facts.

 

Rush on the other hand has a massive hitbox that just straight goes thru pillar. I've seen it abused a lot.

 

Yes, I understand that. Did you think I was suggesting they change rifle to shoot out Bulls Charging warriors? My point was that skills can be made reliable despite issues with latency. Are you saying this is impossible? I disagree.

 

For a better comparison to Bulls Charge, look at Toolkit's Magnet Pull. It's not a projectile and also attempts to put players in close proximity with one another. You could almost call Magnet Pull a Reverse Bulls Charge. But whereas Bulls Charge succeeds, Magnet Pull fails often, even without LoS as an issue. Why?

 

- Why can't Pistol 4 hit up close like it's designed to?

- Why did it take 8 or 9 years to remove the random RNG on Poison Dart Volley to prevent this? https://youtu.be/h-LsA5r6hig

- Why do Net Shot / Overcharged Shot / Pistol 3 etc. all "Miss" or "Obstructed" with basic obstacles like a slight height differential or normal movement? Hell, they even miss on stationary targets: https://youtu.be/2UhyrezOklY?t=83

 

As some others have suggested, it likely depends on skill velocity, tracking, lag etc. So then increase projectile speed / add slight tracking / whatever. I don't care how improvements are made or if skills have to be nerfed because suddenly they work consistently. Winning or losing a fight shouldn't be decided by, essentially, RNG.

 

And don't tell me Anet hasn't had time to fix these issues. They've been in the game forever.

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by bethekey.8314