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Stop exploiting the waypoint blocking mechanic. Seriously.


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This is why we don't have nice things. Stop exploiting every single exploitable¬†mechanic¬†people!¬†ūüėĀ

 

But seriously. The idea to block waypoints during an invasion is fine and necessary because having defenders respawn inside would be too easy. However, having the waypoints blocked when nothing is going on is not the intended function of the mechanic, is just a very easy exploit of an... oversight? 

 

Taunting the guards outside, dropping siege build sites or bashing your face against the gate should only mark the objective as contested but not block the wp.

 

Anyway, just because you can abuse it doesn't mean you should. So stop abusing it ok? it is annoying and unnecessary. Self-control¬†ūüĎć

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Welcome to the mist war. Your waypoints will be contested. Its war.

This is why we don't have nice things. Stop exploiting every single exploitable¬†mechanic¬†people!¬†ūüėĀ ¬† But seriously. The idea to block waypoints¬†during an invasion is fine and necessary becau

Should need to do some damage to a wall or gate before the WP is contested.  This riding mount past the structure and aggro'ing guards to contest is ridiculous as it's pretty much unpunishable.  

1 hour ago, MaLong.2079 said:

This is why we don't have nice things. Stop exploiting every single exploitable¬†mechanic¬†people!¬†ūüėĀ

 

But seriously. The idea to block waypoints during an invasion is fine and necessary because having defenders respawn inside would be too easy. However, having the waypoints blocked when nothing is going on is not the intended function of the mechanic, is just a very easy exploit of an... oversight? 

 

Taunting the guards outside, dropping siege build sites or bashing your face against the gate should only mark the objective as contested but not block the wp.

 

Anyway, just because you can abuse it doesn't mean you should. So stop abusing it ok? it is annoying and unnecessary. Self-control¬†ūüĎć

I usually contest enemy keep if our group is going for sm/tower and it's needed to make their way much longer to said objective so it'll be easier for our group to prepare. 
Beside that though, I saw some pretty special "things" that tag objectives, just to be annoyance I guess, maybe they enjoy being chased around or they seek attention or something, idk. I've noticed that such behaviour is strong especially within cheese lovers like condi druids or mirages, I wonder why and how it's related to their condi build preference.

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29 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

I usually contest enemy keep if our group is going for sm/tower and it's needed to make their way much longer to said objective so it'll be easier for our group to prepare. 
Beside that though, I saw some pretty special "things" that tag objectives, just to be annoyance I guess, maybe they enjoy being chased around or they seek attention or something, idk. I've noticed that such behaviour is strong especially within cheese lovers like condi druids or mirages, I wonder why and how it's related to their condi build preference.

Roamers typically tag keeps as they run by on their circuit so that in the event a random tag appears to take said keep they will get credit on the capture.

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32 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Should need to do some damage to a wall or gate before the WP is contested.  This riding mount past the structure and aggro'ing guards to contest is ridiculous as it's pretty much unpunishable.  

 

It was annoying before mounts, with mounts it's absolutely broken. You can't even be CCed by the guards anymore and mounts have no combat speed etc etc. Then when you do it, run thief with all mobility/sustain build so even if someone waits for you, they will never keep up or kill you. There are a few people that have guilds just for this, and it's all they do, keep in EBG will be contested all matchup, not even joking, I made it a point one time to stay on EBG and watch the keep over a long gaming session, from start to finish over a 6 hour WvW session the keep was never uncontested.

 

Add in some sneaky areas where you can build a bali or AC where it mostly clips into a wall or the ground making them almost impossible to find unless you know the areas and it will constantly aggro the archers, all the troll has to do is come back once an hour to refresh.

 

I have said for some time, make it so that you have to kill a guard, or siege dmg to a gate or wall etc etc before a WP is contested, you can keep the contested on the structure if you like, I know some people were complaining about not getting enough warning for an attack. But you should have scouts for that, I see the WP issue as far bigger. As it stands now, I see no point in even getting a WP on a EBG structure anymore.

 

Again, the point of contesting a WP is so the attacking force does not have to deal with people spam respawning on top of them, which is how it should be. It should not however be a tool for trolling. Having to at LEAST kill a guard would mean the player would have to take some risk to "tap", in that they would need to dismount and actually do something.

 

Fix would be:

 

 

  1. WP contested if guard is killed
  2. WP contested if structure is taking siege dmg
  3. WP contested if Lord is in combat
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I don't have a problem with locking waypoints.

I don't like the fact you can just run by throw down siege to aggro and trigger this though, it should just be damage with siege.

And also the fact there's a certain build from a certain class that runs around doing this with basically no way to punish them for it, and I've seen them run around with up to 10 people having a hard time locking them down.

But anet balancing, not surprising.

 

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5 hours ago, MaLong.2079 said:

Taunting the guards outside, dropping siege build sites or bashing your face against the gate should only mark the objective as contested but not block the wp.

Then how does the game know if it's someone trying to attack the keep or not? I "perma-tap" an enemy keep to try and get them to let down their guard ("It's that kitten thief messing with the guards" -- oblivious that after the 5th or 6th tap the zerg is hitting from the other side.)

 

Regardless, all's fair in love and war my friend.

Edited by Bristingr.5034
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Posted (edited)

At this point I'd rather they just remove all waypoints.  They can leave the emergency waypoint as a tactic, but it should just go as a normal thing.  We have mounts.  Even post nerf, blobs have a ridiculous amount of superspeed (which imo shouldn't even be in the game).  Just get rid of the waypoints already.+

Edited by Ubi.4136
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12 minutes ago, Ubi.4136 said:

At this point I'd rather they just remove all waypoints.  They can leave the emergency waypoint as a tactic, but it should just go as a normal thing.  We have mounts.  Even post nerf, blobs have a ridiculous amount of superspeed (which imo shouldn't even be in the game).  Just get rid of the waypoints already.+

 

They need to increase guard damage to mounts by a lot.  That way if you ride into the guards you are pretty much going to be dismounted--it's not my preferred solution but it's something.  This would help on both taps and going into keeps and pretty much ignoring all guard attacks because you can ride by on a mount with no penalty.

 

WvW honestly worked far better pre-HoT when you didn't have all this mobility from gliding, mounts, boon spam, etc.  The BL's (outside of Desert) are far too small for this.  I've never heard of someone perma-tapping Desert because it takes so long to get from one keep to another, whereas Alpine and EBG everything is so crammed it's just too easy to do.  

 

WP's used to mean something as everyone was far slower and the run seemed to take forever from one keep to the next.  WP's really have never been the issue, it's Anet's 'feature creep' and lack of updating the BLs in any meaningful way to accommodate it.  The mode is based off RTS after all, and anyone who has ever played RTS knows that map design is the number 1 most important thing.  

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It's been part of the game since the start, and makes for a more interesting game. Waypoints are already a huge advantage, which makes sense given how long it takes to get them. But making it so they're always usable? Nah... Go check the keep like you would if the waypoint wasn't there.

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7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Welcome to the mist war. Your waypoints will be contested. Its war.

thats why a good amount of the players runs from every combat on similar numbers. ūüėõ like archon said, some small opening spot would be interesting, but that would make the battles even more endless than they yet are often enough.

 

we'd need anyways some cooldown timer, so people would activate their brain before they suicide into something.

 

the overall balance is really crappy either way currently... even +10 numbers on pugs can be decisive, since randoms feed rallys very hard. pug-battles are therefore pretty random. players die not fast enough, fights against clouds are long, stale and kinda repetitive. siege dmg overall is big, compared to the nerfed dmg of players especially. and siege takes not a lot of dmg from most player moves, outside of few special cases.

while walls drop far too fast from siegedmg overall. like taking it 5-10 times as long as it takes now would be still pretty much fine i guess.

 

and it should be way harder for babygroups to ninja things. it is just pretty annoying when u have to sit on keeps (or: would have to sit on them) so nobody comes with 3-5 people groups, claps the 1-2 reckless randoms that afk or roleplay inside it.

 

maybe some mechanics that auto-scout on teamchat since players have become really bad with that. like, a lord under attack pinging the keep @ teamchat or sth alike. and maybe a tactic that adds a scouttroop (like a walking veteran) who reveals and pings some other alert on mapchat, idk. lot of potential options.

 

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2 hours ago, Choppy.4183 said:

It's been part of the game since the start, and makes for a more interesting game. Waypoints are already a huge advantage, which makes sense given how long it takes to get them. But making it so they're always usable? Nah... Go check the keep like you would if the waypoint wasn't there.

Waypoints should be disabled when a keep is under a real attack because it would be a huge advantage for the defenders if they could wp or respawn inside. That is the only valid reason for this to happen. Getting a waypoint disabled when there is nothing going on is just exploiting a defect in the game.

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17 minutes ago, MaLong.2079 said:

 

Waypoints should be disabled when a keep is under a real attack because it would be a huge advantage for the defenders if they could wp or respawn inside. That is the only valid reason for this to happen. Getting a waypoint disabled when there is nothing going on is just exploiting a defect in the game.

 

Wouldn't that give a pretty huge advantage to defenders who no longer need to respond because they can see on their map whether or not their keep is "under a real attack"? 

 

And tapping a keep is, and always has been, part of legitimate strategy, whether that be to wear down a defenders propensity to check swords on a keep or to delay response time to a completely separate structure. Frankly, I'm surprised people don't do it as much as they used to.

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1 hour ago, Choppy.4183 said:

Frankly, I'm surprised people don't do it as much as they used to.

 

Probably because...

Guilds looking to farm people don't want it tapped, means it takes longer for the bags to come back to the farm...

Guilds not interested in fights would rather cap without any resistance... either cap quickly or run away.

So either way pointless to do.

Now it's just an annoyance by group gankers looking for solo kills, or idiots running around with impossible to kill build to troll people.

 

Generally useless in ebg with the keeps so close to spawn anyways and warclaws, unless you're trying to cap a t3 smc.

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1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Generally useless in ebg with the keeps so close to spawn anyways and warclaws, unless you're trying to cap a t3 smc.

 

Well, that's the other thing. Not only did it used to happen a lot more, the consequences were higher since people didn't have mounts and builds were generally slower too. The one exception is that you used to be able to use the waypoint for a sec when the contest timer restarted, but that was years ago and no we have emergency waypoint.

 

It's practically a non-issue now.

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I rarely have this kind of issue tbh. I don't mind contested waypoints, walking to my destination may provide more content and besides, everyone and their grandmother know that WPs will be 99% contested all the time. So I haven't grown attached to the mechanic.

 

However, I do find kinda weird or eeeehhhh, to see a trap condi druid tag the keep in EBG for like 4 or 5 hours straight, no matter if there's content or not. These people just think thay accomplish something, or probably want attention. No clue. I have contested enemy keeps b4 but not for that absurd time frames. No fun at that if the enemy doesn't retaliate a bit faster. What ends up happening is majority of people eventually get bored, switch borders and don't care so  eh.

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Maybe we can have a "no waypoint" week long event?

 

Though actually I would prefer a totally different system for waypoints. They only make the already strong teams stronger ... cause they are more likely to be able to defend and upgrade stuff.

 

Weaker teams should get automatically unlocked waypoints and making a respawn timer based on how much stuff is contested and how strong the team is. (Stronger team = longer respawn timer. But also contested objective would still allow defenders to spawn ... but with a longer timer.)

 

Just let the timer count. Immediate respawn at your base spawn position (where the Asura Gates are) ... and after a few mins spawning at an objective allowed. Of course then different HP pool and timers for killing lord and capping stuff otherwise it would be impossible of people just constantly re-spawned.

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