Anet do you even play your own game?

[Legorawr.4079]

Posting it here because you wont look into the pvp forum anyway.

Fix necro finally.... Gw1 had balance updates once a month at least. Go back to that.
Nice new skins at the GemStore tho! kitten

[Guirssane.7082]

Scourge is quite strong but not like it once was, reaper is fine imo

[Sovarica.4368]

GW1 had iffy balance at times but they gave you so many skills to pick from it was still fun to experiment even though you were losing it didn't feel bittersweet whereas GW2 it has so few skills you feel stuck playing a meta build and doesn't have the fun factor of skill experimentation cause utility section is so boring

[Dadnir.5038]

If you don't elaborate, I doubt ANet will ever do anything. I mean, what would you do if someone were to tell you: "I have a vague feeling something is wrong with necromancer, fix it!"

 

Going with the usual general complain of the sPvP subforum, I'd hypothesize that it's related to either 1 of 3 maybe 4 options:

1. - "Lich to stronk!"
2. - "Condi bad bad"
3. - "Can't kill it! Nerf it!"
4. - "When it's down it should stay down!"

My personal opinion based on these hypothesis:

1. - I'm waiting for them to remove lich form since even before they removed plagueform (Imo I was disappointed to see that it's plagueform that ended up being removed).
2. - Condition damage have the right to exist in this game, even in PvP.
3. - The game wouldn't be fun if everybody played glass canon.
4. - Rallying is fine as a mechanism, the necromancer even sacrifice life for it.

[KrHome.1920]

Referring to GW1 in 2021 is a bit late... ANet is basically a different developer with a different philosophy now.

[Legorawr.4079]

@Dadnir.5038 well your answer sounds like you think im a crybaby....

I think it a common opinion that scourge is to strong. Its survivability and dmg feels overtuned compared to other classes and how easy it is to learn and play it on a decent level. Its not only me,  in fact its multiple streamers out of the pvp community which share this opinion. Its a easy to learn class and can carry teamfights more than any other class.

 

Your personal opinions are just obvious facts which are not worth mentioning... its not about condition damage, glass canons or rallying. Its not about lich form, in fact most necros just kill themself because they dont know reflection is a thing....

 

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Legorawr.4079 said:

@Dadnir.5038 well your answer sounds like you think im a crybaby....

I think it a common opinion that scourge is to strong. Its survivability and dmg feels overtuned compared to other classes and how easy it is to learn and play it on a decent level. Its not only me,  in fact its multiple streamers out of the pvp community which share this opinion. Its a easy to learn class and can carry teamfights more than any other class.

 

Your personal opinions are just obvious facts which are not worth mentioning... its not about condition damage, glass canons or rallying. Its not about lich form, in fact most necros just kill themself because they dont know reflection is a thing....

 

 

I'm very sorry but you create a topic, joke that it won't be seen any more than in the sPvP subforum, launch a "fix necro" bomb without any explanation on what to fix, add a GW1 and a gemstore sentence and leave it at this. What's constructif in that? It's just rants.

 

Now, "opinions" and "feelings" are perhaps the worse way to balance things. Not to mention that streamers aren't really reliable in their review (anybody can stream it's opinion and it doesn't mean they know what they talk about). The current state in sPvP is due to players following "popular" opinions and devs giving them what they want. sPvP players don't like invuln proc? Sure let's remove invuln proc from sPvP. sPvP players don't like getting burst in an instant? Sure let's reduce damage by 30%. sPvP players don't like fighting against [insert name] amulet? Let's remove the amulet. sPvP players don't like damage procs? Let's prevent those procs from dealing crit... etc. sPvP players don't like a change that they begged to get? Must be PvE balance that screwed them.

 

Be specific when you ask things like "fix necromancer", look for what's specifically need to be fixed, analyse the reason something is broken, construct a reliable argumentation that don't just revolve around: "it feel..." or/and "people say that...". At this point, with a solid argumentation to support your claim, maybe things might move in the right direction.

[Axl.8924]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

I'm very sorry but you create a topic, joke that it won't be seen any more than in the sPvP subforum, launch a "fix necro" bomb without any explanation on what to fix, add a GW1 and a gemstore sentence and leave it at this. What's constructif in that? It's just rants.

 

Now, "opinions" and "feelings" are perhaps the worse way to balance things. Not to mention that streamers aren't really reliable in their review (anybody can stream it's opinion and it doesn't mean they know what they talk about). The current state in sPvP is due to players following "popular" opinions and devs giving them what they want. sPvP players don't like invuln proc? Sure let's remove invuln proc from sPvP. sPvP players don't like getting burst in an instant? Sure let's reduce damage by 30%. sPvP players don't like fighting against [insert name] amulet? Let's remove the amulet. sPvP players don't like damage procs? Let's prevent those procs from dealing crit... etc. sPvP players don't like a change that they begged to get? Must be PvE balance that screwed them.

 

Be specific when you ask things like "fix necromancer", look for what's specifically need to be fixed, analyse the reason something is broken, construct a reliable argumentation that don't just revolve around: "it feel..." or/and "people say that...". At this point, with a solid argumentation to support your claim, maybe things might move in the right direction.

Thats one of the issues that turns me away from the game.

 

The "Feelings" of something not benig fun to one side which is subjective is what ruins this game.

 

WAAH i died i don't like this NERF NERF:

 

Everyone: well that doesn't fix it thread: Anet should not nerf things into the ground .

 

New target: WAAH WAAH WAAH he killed me nerf nerf. 

 

class gets butchered  watch as mesmers and guardians say what the heck you butchered the wrong thing and without compensating anger ensues, everyone throws up their arms and leaves, and then the game dies the end.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Math.5123]

9 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Thats one of the issues that turns me away from the game.

 

The "Feelings" of something not benig fun to one side which is subjective is what ruins this game.

 

WAAH i died i don't like this NERF NERF:

 

Everyone: well that doesn't fix it thread: Anet should not nerf things into the ground .

 

New target: WAAH WAAH WAAH he killed me nerf nerf. 

 

class gets butchered  watch as mesmers and guardians say what the heck you butchered the wrong thing and without compensating anger ensues, everyone throws up their arms and leaves, and then the game dies the end.

 

 

Classes like scourge, deadeye, old symbol guard have no place in a pvp setting. I would nerf the prior two so that they never see the light of day again. 

It's not subjective, no one enjoys playing against these mechanics, wether it's blue or green class. 

[Axl.8924]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:41 AM, Math.5123 said:

Classes like scourge, deadeye, old symbol guard have no place in a pvp setting. I would nerf the prior two so that they never see the light of day again. 

It's not subjective, no one enjoys playing against these mechanics, wether it's blue or green class. 

 

Nobody enjoys dying but fun is subjective and I-m sure someone plays deadeye and enjoys it.

 

The reason why its not nerfed right now, is because you need to show how something is overpowered.

 

 

There are multiple points of views to always consider before wrecking a build. 

The point of the view of those who fight said class with the build, the point of view the person who plays and also high and low ranking players. The reason is: People lie, human beings are flawed and lie and make stuff up andalso exaggerate.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Math.5123]

3 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

Nobody enjoys dying but fun is subjective and I-m sure someone plays deadeye and enjoys it.

 

The reason why its not nerfed right now, is because you need to show how something is overpowered.

 

 

There are multiple points of views to always consider before wrecking a build. 

The point of the view of those who fight said class with the build, the point of view the person who plays and also high and low ranking players. The reason is: People lie, human beings are flawed and lie and make stuff up andalso exaggerate.

Overpowered =/= unhealthy.

A class that has a one shot button that has 50% chance to one-shot yourself is a perfectly balanced class. But it's unhealthy. 

 

So is a sniper class or aoe spam in a mode about standing on nodes. 

[Axl.8924]

On 5/29/2021 at 12:49 PM, Math.5123 said:

Overpowered =/= unhealthy.

A class that has a one shot button that has 50% chance to one-shot yourself is a perfectly balanced class. But it's unhealthy. 

 

So is a sniper class or aoe spam in a mode about standing on nodes. 

There are ways to keep the classes from being broken without completely deleting them, which in itself creates more issues.

To do that though, you would need a dev to play a class extensively and then decide what needs changed.

 

What if for instance you end up having to butcher multiple stuff of thief whcih makes it unplayable? what about from the thief's perspective?

You could end up turning a character into a training dummy which then causes more peeps to leave the game. In order to truly have good balance you would need multiple modes with proper rule sets to fit certain niches and also overhaul the spec.

 

some things need overhaul to not be busted and its possible to overhaul instead of going with a chainsaw and simply cutting it apart, its just not logical to go in and massacre a class with a chainsaw.

 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

 

On 5/28/2021 at 1:10 PM, Legorawr.4079 said:

Fix necro finally....

 
Fix your post making skills. If you got an issue with necro, name it. No one is gonna fix nothing if you just say "it's broken". Which part is broken. Which spec? Why is it broken?

I main necro in pvp and majority of necro tears are just bad players being bad. I can agree that scourge has broken sustain especially if there's two of them, both healers. Other than that I've yet to see a "broken" necro...

Edited May 29, 2021 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[jpsssss.7530]

My man it took them 2 years to fix a bug with a core ranger skill interacting with soulbeast. Don't hold your breaht on "fixing" necro. I'd say its fine.

 

Personally, I think Anet needs to stop nerfing/removing and replacing things with absolute garbage (see blood bank), and start buffing things that are weak. We as a community should be promoting that rather than whining and demanding nerfs...

[cloudsareyum.8120]

I've seen a thousand threads of people being outplayed with people who are playing classes to skill, going to the pvp forums to grief (even when sometimes being outplayed by someone who is playing a technically weaker class than them), both in gw2 and other games. Please, convince me- what is the actual specific balance problem and what is your proof?   Did you play the class yourself, and you notice that compared to your high dps build on other class it has technically larger damage output of conditions that can't be removed?   Is there something about the class that makes it unfun?  Did they mess mechanics up so you can't enjoy it anymore?  Is there something about the mechanics of necros that bother you?  These are all legitimate complaints, and I'm interested in hearing the exact specifics. 

 

 

18 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Classes like scourge, deadeye, old symbol guard have no place in a pvp setting. I would nerf the prior two so that they never see the light of day again. 

It's not subjective, no one enjoys playing against these mechanics, wether it's blue or green class. 

I disagree. I like those mechanics both playing them and against them, AND they have both place and precedent in competitive gaming. 

 

also, deadeye is pretty balanced imo, at least, last year it was. It can take down people fast if the team ignores the deadeye, but the cons is that you're squishy, you have very little stunbreaks and you have to be EXTREMELY good not to get instakilled.  There's a high skill floor to play it, so I think if one nerfed deadeye, it' would just be plain weak. The whole point is that it's a high risk, high reward style gameplay.

 

I* enjoy playing against those mechanics and as those mechanics. It's not any different from other mechanics.    These are also pretty fun classes that appear in other competitive game types.   Deadeye is analagous to things like Attack Damage Carries in League of Legends and other games, output a lot of damage but squishy. it's not useful for pve quite as much in my experience, so it shines as fun in pvp to play against and to play with.  If you skill up a bit, you can learn how to counter them- they have very limited stunbreaks and they tend to be squishy as heck, so if you play a strong gap closing duelist (like a mesmer assassin), boom, they dead.  Part of pvp is also targeting specific classes that will be trouble if left alone/easy pickings/ etc.   the balance of scourge is that they're easily killed on range- ranger bow or deadeye.  Also, conditions can be cleansed- learning how to cleanse or resist them is a must if you're doing pvp. 

 

Most of the game's classes are classes with AoE.  I politely question whether you actually play pvp on any classes at all.  If you really dislike Gw2 style of PvP there are a ton of great competitive games out there that do not have AoE, but the majority of them do have skillshots. 

 

Scourge was easy to counter because they are squishy even if they put a ton of conditions on you, and every decent pvp player knows how to condition cleanse.  I actually used to love it when there were scourges, because we'd just snipe or assassinate them and boom, a bunch of the opponent team firepower is gone. 

 

Deadeyes are annoying but incredibly satisfying to counter, and I also know from playing that if they got away from me they actually are pretty good. But I tend to get them anyway, because hooray for AoEs on stealth area.

 

I don't know about old symbol guards, they're annoying, but I don't see them as any different from the level of other players. 

 

Do you have any evidence for these complaints?

 

I do not think it is fair to players to simply -remove certain classes- because some people don't know how to counter them.  It really hurts the meta actually, when players take to forums to complain such and such class shouldn't be in pvp or are too strong, when it really is that they've gotten outplayed and out dueled by the skill level and may need more practice or understanding of mechanics.  What happens is a class, for example a class with an obvious glaring weakness (and i would call deadeye probably the -weakest- pvp class i ever played, besides old base mesmer before the update to mechanics) that gets vilified, when it's already extremely difficult to play and super weak and easy to kill as long as someone knows what they're doing, gets weakened to the point of uselessness and unfun.   If you dislike typical competitive gaming so much, there are plenty of rooms that do 1 on 1 duels where you can select your opponent, custom rooms as well, and other games that do not have counterable ADC type/deadeye characters to play against.

 

If there is an update or something feel free to contradict me.  I'm stating my experience, but I'm open to any disagreement, counteraguments, whatsoever. 

 

Ofc, my bias, is that when pvp was us quickly roflmelting and dueling each other versus long drawn out battles that it was pretty fun.

Edited May 30, 2021 by cloudsareyum.8120

[Asum.4960]

19 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Classes like scourge, deadeye, old symbol guard have no place in a pvp setting. I would nerf the prior two so that they never see the light of day again. 

It's not subjective, no one enjoys playing against these mechanics, wether it's blue or green class. 

Fundamentally disagree (although I'm very confused as to why you grouped DE with Guard and Scourge, considering they are opposite end of the spectrum of each other in terms of gameplay they enable). 

Things like old big Symbol FB or cScourge is what held PvP together for me. The teamfights and tactical rotations, the gameplay these specs enabled, are the heart of conquest to me. 

 

The running around like maniacs with stealth/perma cc/teleports all over the place and insta gibbing people that happens when "Blue and Green" gets disabled couldn't be more boring to me, receiving or dishing out. 

Sure, there is still some skill in rotating there, but other than that it's a game devolved into who saw who first/landed the first CC. 

 

I'd take drawn out teamfights with tactical skill use, cool down management, focus calls, sidenode management, tactical retreats/regroups etc. any day over that. 

 

FB + Scourge (Teamfighters) + Thief (roamer/+1) + Duelist + (home) Bunker was at least imo the most fun meta. The only problem was lack of variety for the Teamfighter and roamer/+1 roles, making FB and Scourge (Thief fsr being uniquely accepted as staple role only it can fill). seem like a problem, rather than the only solution available. 

 

It is highly subjective though. But obviously Call of Duty is more popular than MechWarrior, so I understand there being more pressure to go with the grain for a more brainless, fast paced mode over all rather than a slow and tactical one, but let's not pretend that's an objective Truth.

 

For me, playing as and against FB + Scourge is > Old cMirage, Sickem Soulbeast, cThief, Shiro Rev and Holo any day. 

The constant get out of jail free cards negating any punishment for bad play is way worse than some AoE's I have to play around.

[Axl.8924]

On 5/30/2021 at 5:02 AM, Asum.4960 said:

Fundamentally disagree (although I'm very confused as to why you grouped DE with Guard and Scourge, considering they are opposite end of the spectrum of each other in terms of gameplay they enable). 

Things like old big Symbol FB or cScourge is what held PvP together for me. The teamfights and tactical rotations, the gameplay these specs enabled, are the heart of conquest to me. 

 

The running around like maniacs with stealth/perma cc/teleports all over the place and insta gibbing people that happens when "Blue and Green" gets disabled couldn't be more boring to me, receiving or dishing out. 

Sure, there is still some skill in rotating there, but other than that it's a game devolved into who saw who first/landed the first CC. 

 

I'd take drawn out teamfights with tactical skill use, cool down management, focus calls, sidenode management, tactical retreats/regroups etc. any day over that. 

 

FB + Scourge (Teamfighters) + Thief (roamer/+1) + Duelist + (home) Bunker was at least imo the most fun meta. The only problem was lack of variety for the Teamfighter and roamer/+1 roles, making FB and Scourge (Thief fsr being uniquely accepted as staple role only it can fill). seem like a problem, rather than the only solution available. 

 

It is highly subjective though. But obviously Call of Duty is more popular than MechWarrior, so I understand there being more pressure to go with the grain for a more brainless, fast paced mode over all rather than a slow and tactical one, but let's not pretend that's an objective Truth.

 

For me, playing as and against FB + Scourge is > Old cMirage, Sickem Soulbeast, cThief, Shiro Rev and Holo any day. 

The constant get out of jail free cards negating any punishment for bad play is way worse than some AoE's I have to play around.

 

Well i mean most thief builds are roamer types and deadeye is no different.

It would be nice if thief got a team player build so they can work with blobs in WVW.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

33 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

Well i mean most thief builds are roamer types and deadeye is no different.

It would be nice if thief got a team player build so they can work with blobs in WVW.

 

It's not that they don't have the material for teamplayer builds, it's that it's mostly inexploited. Between bountiful theft, thrill of the crime and Fire for effect, DE got a nice amount of boon sharing up it's sleeve (might/fury/swiftness/vigor are always useful and you can luck it out with bountiful theft). Traited venoms aren't transcendental but they can still net a nice amount of damage increase, control and healing to your allies. (I'd add preparations but the arming time make them worthless).

[medivh.4725]

I know their customer service don't   😄

[Puck.3697]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:58 AM, Axl.8924 said:

There are ways to keep the classes from being broken without completely deleting them, which in itself creates more issues.

To do that though, you would need a dev to play a class extensively and then decide what needs changed.

 

What if for instance you end up having to butcher multiple stuff of thief whcih makes it unplayable? what about from the thief's perspective?

You could end up turning a character into a training dummy which then causes more peeps to leave the game. In order to truly have good balance you would need multiple modes with proper rule sets to fit certain niches and also overhaul the spec.

 

some things need overhaul to not be busted and its possible to overhaul instead of going with a chainsaw and simply cutting it apart, its just not logical to go in and massacre a class with a chainsaw.

 

 

no u just need a dev team who will bring in Slow small Nerfs to parts of its kit til its toned down abit, ofcourse this doesnt mean anet would do this.. more that they should do this.

[Puck.3697]

On 5/30/2021 at 4:02 AM, Asum.4960 said:

For me, playing as and against FB + Scourge is > Old cMirage, Sickem Soulbeast, cThief, Shiro Rev and Holo any day. 

The constant get out of jail free cards negating any punishment for bad play is way worse than some AoE's I have to play around.

 

how does this work.... these speccs dont have "get out of jail free cards" unless ur a player who struggles v people who know how to kite. these squishy builds. will get Smashed to pieces pretty instantly if u mess up. or do something u shouldnt

 

Bunker builds are the forgiving speccs, Prot holo and things as such. .as they can survive several mistakes due to how Tanky they really are. the only Brawler type outside of this i'd arguye is ele, because Eles Defense and survivability is built on its active kit and will die very fast if u just dont use abilities properly.