World Linking 5/28/2021

[joneirikb.7506]

If all servers became considered full, they'd just increase the limit slightly until a couple of servers are Very High. And keep at it until people have actually spread out semi-evenly. It's basically what they want.

[Leaa.2943]

On 6/4/2021 at 4:13 AM, joneirikb.7506 said:

Do people not understand that the whole linking system is mostly automated ? It's not like ANet sits and picks servers to glue together, they just run a script, that takes the numbers, and matches them more or less up to each others, as close as they get, and ships it.

The linking isn't the problem the majority of people here are really complaining about, it's players moving servers, which is what neuters most of the things linking is trying to do (imperfectly, but still).

 

If you want actual fixes, and not just trying to whine at ANet until they give you the dream link so you can roflstomp all opponents (90% of players definition of "fair and balanced" right there):

* #AllianceWhen

* Set link's population to the same as the host, so people can't bandwagon to it every link.

* Nuke all servers, make new ones (probably once a year, and remove linking)

 

And accept that most fans are just going to get pissed, because most doesn't actually want a fair and balanced game mode, they just want an advantage for themselves.

I get pisses because my server get no link twice as many times as any of the other EU servers. I get pissed that 3 servers get NO link every relink and falls down to tier 5 and claims to be full even though there are no queue at all, not even on freaking prime time. 

 

And you might feel that servers do not matter because you might not be on a server where anyone care. I am on a server were we DO care and never stopped doing so. There are also other servers with comunities. I am sorry that you lost yours and dont feel you have a home, but others do so dont speak for them when you want to nuke servers. 

[joneirikb.7506]

4 hours ago, Leaa.2943 said:

I get pisses because my server get no link twice as many times as any of the other EU servers. I get pissed that 3 servers get NO link every relink and falls down to tier 5 and claims to be full even though there are no queue at all, not even on freaking prime time. 

 

And you might feel that servers do not matter because you might not be on a server where anyone care. I am on a server were we DO care and never stopped doing so. There are also other servers with comunities. I am sorry that you lost yours and dont feel you have a home, but others do so dont speak for them when you want to nuke servers. 

* If your server got no link, then it's quite clear that your server has more player-hours on average than other servers. Which means by math, you shouldn't have a link for the linking system to work properly.

* EU has 27 servers, 3 more than NA, so unless they start linking 3 servers together (3 times), then 3 servers will have to go without a link. NA has in the past complained that certain servers DOES get a link, so the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and all that. Neither is optimal, but it is what it is, since the only practical solution is either delete 3 servers in EU, or make 3xServer world links, which I'm sure people would complain about as well.

* Most servers today doesn't have queue's that often, usually reset and possibly a couple of popular days during prime. ANet been reducing the pop limit slowly in order to avoid that (among other things), so working as intended.
* Worlds/Servers themselves only function as an easy target to build a community around, and I quite like mine. But even if they deleted the world/server, the community would still remain. Community is the people that work toward making and keeping a community, it's not something a world/server actually does by itself. Mechanically a World is just a framework/restriction, to set who gets to play together, something that Alliances would have done better, but it is what it is, and we will have to deal with what we have, not what we wish we had.

 

The problems is that most of the comments in this thread is complaining about the symptoms ("I didn't get the link I wanted!") instead of making arguments against the root cause (Server Transfer/Stacking links). And no amount of complaining at ANet about "make links better!" is ever going to work, because they don't have enough agency to do anything about it. Because even if they make the perfect links (And let's disregard whom it would be perfect from, and believe that all players wanted the same, fair balance for everyone), it will take tops 2-3 days, and players will have transferred around and WRECKED that balance.

As long as we have Server Transfers, the linking system is actually working against itself. At this point, EotM is more balanced.

[Pacificterror.7805]

On 6/5/2021 at 6:05 PM, Gorem.8104 said:

 

What interests me is SoS did lose some guilds in an Xfer to IoJ, that is why IoJ is suddenly very high. Yet somehow SoS is still counted as full, even with the guild xfers. Which means that this "Full" amount is very flexible, you can be at the bottom end of full and have a near dead server experience at many times of day, or at the top end and have every map full with que's on every map. The fact that hundreds of people can xfer out of a full server, and it still be counted as full, is concerning.

 

My guildies were talking about that and it got me hopeful about being able to transfer over to SoS (where the guild is based)....looks like I'll still be waiting, though, and occasionally clashing with them in WvW (like yesterday lol....)

[Gorem.8104]

21 hours ago, Pacificterror.7805 said:

 

My guildies were talking about that and it got me hopeful about being able to transfer over to SoS (where the guild is based)....looks like I'll still be waiting, though, and occasionally clashing with them in WvW (like yesterday lol....)

 

Wait no longer, the limit was raised and enough people had left SoS 😉

 

Good to see them doing some wvw work! 

[Pacificterror.7805]

29 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

Wait no longer, the limit was raised and enough people had left SoS 😉

 

Good to see them doing some wvw work! 

 

Thanks for the heads up....here's hoping that it doesn't fill up before I get home from work - and my work day just started LOL. No gems left in my wallet so I'll have to stop by an EB Games to pick up a card on the way home

[RisingDaewn.8703]

So, we have a interesting change in the EU in terms of population tonight, while the tiers are still settling after the Glicko relinks, matching up servers in different tiers.

 

I doubt Gandara stays open for that long and servers like Deso, AM, Elona and SFR are full, the latter is in T5 with no link. Active links make a huge difference to the quality and quantity of WvW you get in the EU, even ones who are deemed medium according to the algorithm, but many are pretty much dead compared to others.

 

WvW population change

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by CrimsonNeonite.1048

[AlCapwnd.7834]

Holy Crap. ANET. Get your stuff together. You Opened DB but left BG closed. DB is FULL of private tags and PPT parties. BG has RAWR and thats about it. Why TF did you decide to open DB and not BG. BG is not full. But DB is........ Im concerned for ANET staff.

[derlistigeuhu.1658]

BG should never be opened again. Don't even think about that.

[AlCapwnd.7834]

15 minutes ago, derlistigeuhu.1658 said:

BG should never be opened again. Don't even think about that.

Why is that? Cause of the lack of inactive players? Oh. So BG can be farmed. I got it now

[Pacificterror.7805]

3 hours ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

Holy Crap. ANET. Get your stuff together. You Opened DB but left BG closed. DB is FULL of private tags and PPT parties. BG has RAWR and thats about it. Why TF did you decide to open DB and not BG. BG is not full. But DB is........ Im concerned for ANET staff.

 

I'm confused. Is the server being full not based on active WvW population? Another server opening would indicate they have a lower active WvW population than BG...hence BG staying closed.

 

Am I missing something?

[def.7435]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:54 AM, Gorem.8104 said:

If you gonna do this, at least open up more servers. It really is terrible that we get moved around like this but like have no options to move. I'm on NA IoJ, Playing with SoS has been awesome and now you are unlinking us? I'm an oceanic player stuck outside of SoS so now what, i'm just given a middle finger? Then let me transfer to SoS. 

 

Seriously. The one link I was hoping would stay together... 

I've found the one person in IoJ that enjoyed that SoS link. I'm OCE, and that is the absolute worst TZ to be linked with SoS for. 

 

Anyway, in some sort of cosmic irony due to today's population rework, IoJ is now full (combo of being basically already Very Full if not actually shown and some bandwagoning) and SoS is Very High, so you're free to go and KTrain.

Edited June 8, 2021 by def.7435

[Gorem.8104]

Already x-fered and gained more levels, and more pvp kills, then I did spending a week with the IOJ/FA matchup, so I am extremely happy 🙂

[Jilora.9524]

4 hours ago, Pacificterror.7805 said:

 

I'm confused. Is the server being full not based on active WvW population? Another server opening would indicate they have a lower active WvW population than BG...hence BG staying closed.

 

Am I missing something?

You are missing that fact that he knows every single player and their play hours on BG and DB and added it all up and that's how he can say this. It's not totally because when he plays he feels outnumbered so somehow it's some huge conspiracy that the server he wants to transfer to isn't open for him to join. I guess HoB quit too cuz he says there is only Rawr. Of course Rawr is like 30 deep and if they play a few hours a day totally not stacking hours

[def.7435]

3 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Already x-fered and gained more levels, and more pvp kills, then I did spending a week with the IOJ/FA matchup, so I am extremely happy 🙂

I'm not trying to flame but I am kinda finding this crazy given a) SoS is actually losing a matchup for once and b) We've been farming SoX and Claire hard in OCX this matchup. Put together that SoS tends towards PPT over PPK and the SoS server KD is 0.65 right now, which is fairly dire.

 

But hey, maybe you if you play purely PUG and that just suites the SoS culture better and you get more kills as a solo player. The more levels is a matter of flipping stuff, which really just measures how active a matchup is and how hard you're PPTing.

Edited June 8, 2021 by def.7435

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

please people, don't try to argue as if it was the players' fault. the link system is just not working and outright bad.

 

everything unlinked or #allianceswhen are the only options to fix that.

 

fullness is changed whenever Anet makes them manually "fuller or less full" ... as we read lately, they can "change the maths". which is funny, since fullness = activity = active players not numberwise, but in terms of how long they play (hours probably?)

 

so the only option to go around that system is by having a ton of alt accounts... gee gee no re.

 

the most full servers are usually the classic ppt-servers, as those have the most players doing the most time consuming thing as their main thing to do in game. people like me rather look if there's fights ongoing, if not, i'll log or play some other gamemode. ergo, less hours in either way, even in times i play much.

 

[Leaa.2943]

On 6/6/2021 at 10:20 PM, joneirikb.7506 said:

* If your server got no link, then it's quite clear that your server has more player-hours on average than other servers. Which means by math, you shouldn't have a link for the linking system to work properly.

* EU has 27 servers, 3 more than NA, so unless they start linking 3 servers together (3 times), then 3 servers will have to go without a link. NA has in the past complained that certain servers DOES get a link, so the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and all that. Neither is optimal, but it is what it is, since the only practical solution is either delete 3 servers in EU, or make 3xServer world links, which I'm sure people would complain about as well.

* Most servers today doesn't have queue's that often, usually reset and possibly a couple of popular days during prime. ANet been reducing the pop limit slowly in order to avoid that (among other things), so working as intended.
* Worlds/Servers themselves only function as an easy target to build a community around, and I quite like mine. But even if they deleted the world/server, the community would still remain. Community is the people that work toward making and keeping a community, it's not something a world/server actually does by itself. Mechanically a World is just a framework/restriction, to set who gets to play together, something that Alliances would have done better, but it is what it is, and we will have to deal with what we have, not what we wish we had.

 

The problems is that most of the comments in this thread is complaining about the symptoms ("I didn't get the link I wanted!") instead of making arguments against the root cause (Server Transfer/Stacking links). And no amount of complaining at ANet about "make links better!" is ever going to work, because they don't have enough agency to do anything about it. Because even if they make the perfect links (And let's disregard whom it would be perfect from, and believe that all players wanted the same, fair balance for everyone), it will take tops 2-3 days, and players will have transferred around and WRECKED that balance.

As long as we have Server Transfers, the linking system is actually working against itself. At this point, EotM is more balanced.

No it is not quite clear at all. For anyone on my server it is very unclear how we where counted as full, since we are mostly outnumbered every where and at prime we maybe have 5+ queue on one border. And don't pull the kitten that i don't know. I know my server i been on it for 8 years i might not know everybody in person but i know everybody who is playing frequently on it and when they play. 

 

And consider we where opened on Tuesday my words was very valid and correct whilst you just want to try and slap your version on top of me without even having a clue because the way you talk you are not on my server. 

 

AND the thing with my server is that the people who wanted to transfer have done so. The rest of us stick to it and wait the bad times out and takes the hits twice as many times as any other server. My server was closed for 270 days for NO reason what so ever. 

 

AND i also have alt account on all not national servers in EU so i am capabel of comparing very well. 

 

But thanks for you input. 

[Deniara Devious.3948]

Interesting that both Piken Square and Ring of Fire are classified as "high". They are already dominating the Tier 1 EU match up in terms of Points per Tick (PpT), albeit last when it comes to Kills-per-Deaths-Rate (KDR). It would be logical that either of these of both becomes a bandwagon destination.

Seafarer's Rest (SFR) got the short straw and they are stuck in tier 5 most likely for the entire 8 weeks.

Many people earlier were moaning about Desolation getting a link. The population even with a link isn't so high and there rarely is any queues. There are often outnumbered on multiple maps at same time. 

I have said it multiple times: 5 tiers is too much for the current population of EU. We should have 4 tiers, just like NA. Then all the servers could have at least 1 link and some would have 2 links.

Ayna (Desolation since late 2012-)

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@Deniara Devious.3948 yeah you know... we even got messages from all corners (deso as well as from shiverpeaks links) that they also want to drop. and our discord also kinda wants to drop. just, it really isn't like any of the servers extensively slows down at ppting... (and i logged in an hour ago, deso ppt also never sleeps)

 

also, servers with too big ppt population are hard to stop from ppt'ing. i am raising an alt now, bc there is no other way to go around the broken link system. t1 is just not interesting at all. but with any of the current t1 comps u just cannot effectively fight the more fighting oriented servers.

 

and if u want to play, tiers like t1 and t5 are of no interest, bc both tend to be "no content". t5 is literally only dead servers, t1 is those with a ton of edgy ppters that won't ever cooperate nor ever stop or slow down the ppt actions. so yeah, agreeing on removing tier 5 kinda, but that is still only a temporary solution

 

the overall numbers of RoF+piken aren't that crazy, just its a nearly 24/7 coverage i'd say. barely more than one reset blob, that's pretty poor. while linked with GH we/RoF had three reset tags, and it was a full+veryhigh link partly then.

 

(that to be said, three blobs on reset is also dysfunctional, since u often need the best players on one border to fight the best enemy blob, and if the coordination between too many comms is messed up, it ends up in chaos, ragequitted, messed up queues etc)

 

also, the kdR thing is wrong. all in our matchup are horrible, t2 as well not great. whole t3 gets farmed by by fsp+arborstone etc ... plus, the kill/deathrate simply comes from the inexperienced ppt players, who just jump into bigger groups to get farmed, thinking they "Must defend" the objectives at all cost. RoF+piken has also a ton of these,

 

while the matchup itself is a joke. no really hard groups. on my few days old alt, i made in three days on a core necro 1100 kills (110 avengers symbols) while dying like 40 times. took 17 levels, just unlocked scrouge , finished warclaw track and not even having warclaw unlocked yet (apparently badges of honor are a bit low in the first few days, and i spent my few to by zerker weapons as the condicrap from standard lv80boost gear is big oof).

 

that's how easy it really is.

was even quite fun, bc i'm not used to core necro and as well not to not having a warclaw and only standard weirdo condi gear thaha.

 

t2 even feels like another t1 from the looks of it. at least not 1st and 2nd get stuck in it tho...

 

 

[Kylden Ar.3724]

Alliances Ever!? Communication when!?

[joneirikb.7506]

On 6/9/2021 at 2:31 AM, Leaa.2943 said:

No it is not quite clear at all. For anyone on my server it is very unclear how we where counted as full, since we are mostly outnumbered every where and at prime we maybe have 5+ queue on one border. And don't pull the kitten that i don't know. I know my server i been on it for 8 years i might not know everybody in person but i know everybody who is playing frequently on it and when they play. 

 

And consider we where opened on Tuesday my words was very valid and correct whilst you just want to try and slap your version on top of me without even having a clue because the way you talk you are not on my server. 

 

AND the thing with my server is that the people who wanted to transfer have done so. The rest of us stick to it and wait the bad times out and takes the hits twice as many times as any other server. My server was closed for 270 days for NO reason what so ever. 

 

AND i also have alt account on all not national servers in EU so i am capabel of comparing very well. 

 

But thanks for you input. 

Probably pointless of me to answer to this, but it honestly annoys me when people gets facts wrong.

 

If it is not clear to you or your server why you where counted full, "played hours" of your server where above a certain threshold, as dictated by ANet. That is the only criteria for being full. This is being updated automatically by scripts/algorithms, it's not like ANet sits every week and throw darts to see what status each world should have each week.

 

If you had gotten a link, that threshold would actually have been reduced (as linked worlds have a lower WorldPop threshold).

 

The fact that several servers got reduced on Tuesday has to do with ANet changing the WorldPop threshold globally, because NA had 16 full servers out of 24. The EU side was honestly just collateral damage to that, but I'm glad for you that it opened your world.

Edited June 11, 2021 by joneirikb.7506

[Deniara Devious.3948]

I agree that the RoF + Piken advantage is mainly the best coverage. The population advantage they have is minor. Quality is pretty bad on most servers and fights can be over very quickly or people just flee.

I agree that stopping Points-per-Tick is very hard for servers who has a lot of PuGs who are into that style of play. I am also one of those type of players. Easily just few of such players can make quite a big difference in final score as they can flip camps, towers and even keeps at critical moments.

Interestingly tier 1 has the most even match up in EU: both in points and KDR. The bottom 2 tiers (tier4 and tier5) are the most uneven match ups in terms of points. FSP + Arborstone is absolutely annihilating their opponents (2.0 KDR vs. 0.6 KDR). So huge differences are not fun for the losing side.

Aiming for perfect balance is not possible, but we can certainly make it so that the population statuses are updated more often (this can be automatic process done every day) and that new relinks happen more often.

The most important thing is: There should be only 4 tiers in EU. There simply isn't enough population for 5 tiers. With 4 tiers all servers could have a link and some would have 2 links.




 

[Zavijah.2695]

I just transferred from Maguuma to Sea of Sorrows for 1) The publicised allure of playing with a greater Oceanic WvW population, and 2) with the server unlocks I just got my other half into the game and we would want to WvW together. 

Ironically, Maguuma is decimating Sea of Sorrows and Blackgate currently. 

As I've only recently returned from a 6 month break, when I cast my mind back, BoB was the only guild on Maguuma, that is Aussie, and had an active presence, but there weren't too many other guilds at the time we were playing. 

Now? Wow. I mean, I had to find a server for the partner and I to both be on anyway, but far out I regret moving. 

Since when did Maguuma actually become a powerhouse? WTF?!

[Niteraven.1372]

I regret moving too, and I won't do it again.  We are being DESTROYED by Jade Quarry.  The answer for me, I guess, is to just not do wvw.  Maybe its a lot of people's answer.  I don't really know.

[SimpleHonors.6320]

13 hours ago, Niteraven.1372 said:

I regret moving too, and I won't do it again.  We are being DESTROYED by Jade Quarry.  The answer for me, I guess, is to just not do wvw.  Maybe its a lot of people's answer.  I don't really know.

I am on JQ and although I like to think our server is decent, you all also had some very bad luck in that our link (BP) just had a few larger guilds transfer over to it.   I wouldn't be surprised to see BP become a full server soon.