Rotational abilities that feature acrobatic animations make the combat worse (for me*)

[Aodlop.1907]

It just struck me as I was playing my Reaper, precisely because Reaper lacks that shortcoming that most classes have: being locked from moving freely while performing an attack, because that attack comes with an acrobatic movement animation.

D/D Thief is a shining example of that design choice, although Daredevil staff 2 is probably the worst offender - but really, most professions are plagued with this (think of spells typically that say "Leap at your foe") and that's probably why I could never really get into GW2 for a long time before trying Reaper.

Reaper does have that "feature" on Shroud 2 but that spell is a charge so it makes sense and it's fine.

 

What are your thoughts on this? Do you like having your damage abilities merged with movement effects, or do you prefer to have both effects split into dedicated abilities like I do?

Edited May 28, 2021 by Aodlop.1907

[Fueki.4753]

I don't usually mind these kinds of skills.

They can be hard to use at first, but one usually gets used to them rather fast.

 

The thing that throws me off far more often is that my dodges often go into other directions than I pressed the keys for.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Aodlop.1907]

That's odd, I've never encountered the issue you describe. Do you dodge with double taps or do you have dedicated buttons for this?

[Omega.6801]

I see the movement, if there is any attached to a skill, as part of the skill. I try to be aware of it, in encounters where "falling off a platttform" or "vaulting into a one-shot AoE" is a thing and also use the skills for movement if possible.

I don't think that these skills are overwhelmingly present in the game and the way you phrase it with reaper, "it's a charge so it makes sense and is fine", i think it's more of an issue with preference or getting to know the skills. Leaps make sense, blinks make sense too, even the now scrapped sword autoattack on ranger made sense(it was good to get rid of it though, on an AA-chain these skills do get overwhelming) but you got used to playing reaper, so you got used to its shroud 2 ability. If you could handle that, I'm sure you could get used to some leaps and other charges, if you wanted or had to.

 

Anyway, having some skills move you around in an otherwise very flexible and fluid combat system is better than 1)having floaty combat where your movement doesn't matter or 2)having each skill lock you in place(but that's a different topic.).

[Malitias.8453]

I don't mind the movement portion of a skill as long as they work properly. Shadowsteps/teleports can be very frustrating.
The "no valid path to target" message is really infuriating, especially when you are standing within melee range.

Movement coupled with attacks is inherently difficult to pull off in a satisfying way, but when done right it can add a ton of weight to attacks and give the combat more depth in general. It's a matter of good implementation.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I don't mind them.  I've played games that almost exclusively have animation locking without much problem.  It helps to create openings to attack from.  

[Fueki.4753]

8 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

That's odd, I've never encountered the issue you describe. Do you dodge with double taps or do you have dedicated buttons for this?

I suspect that's due to the direction my character looks in, rather than how the camera direction.

This thing occurs mostly when the camera isn't behind my character.

[Black Storm.6974]

12 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

It just struck me as I was playing my Reaper, precisely because Reaper lacks that shortcoming that most classes have: being locked from moving freely while performing an attack, because that attack comes with an acrobatic movement animation.

This is one of the main reasons why I can’t play other professions, and why I love Reaper so much. I want to have free movement while using my skills.

[Khisanth.2948]

21 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

It just struck me as I was playing my Reaper, precisely because Reaper lacks that shortcoming that most classes have: being locked from moving freely while performing an attack, because that attack comes with an acrobatic movement animation.

 

Reaper does not lack that. There is reaper shroud #2.

[Aodlop.1907]

31 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Reaper does not lack that. There is reaper shroud #2.

It looks as though you haven't read the entire post.

[Khisanth.2948]

18 minutes ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

It looks as though you haven't read the entire post.

Actually I did but somehow missed that one sentence. Might have been too distracted by the terrible example of DD staff 2 which functions very similarly to reaper shroud 2. Most classes do have some sort movement skill but how many builds actually  use multiple?

[Aodlop.1907]

2 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

the terrible example of DD staff 2 which functions very similarly to reaper shroud 2.

It absolutely doesn't. DD's spell is a core, spammable ability that you constantly use for damage. Shroud 2 is a mobility tool, you basically only use it to connect to targets and it's not spammable anyway. It's also really fast and travels way further.

Not even remotely comparable. 

[Khisanth.2948]

3 minutes ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

It absolutely doesn't. DD's spell is a core, spammable ability that you constantly use for damage. Shroud 2 is a mobility tool, you basically only use it to connect to targets and it's not spammable anyway. It's also really fast and travels way further.

Not even remotely comparable. 

They are both skills which moves you forward and stopping in front of your target if you have selected and fling you off a cliff if your target happens to die at wrong time(higher chance on shroud 2 due to the range).

 

Combat is indeed made worse when you spam your skills without paying attention to what is happening. I can 100% agree to that. I have certainly regretted spamming heartseeker on more than a few occasions but the actual difference is not the skills involved.

 

The aftermath of the regrettable decision on a reaper especially while in shroud: "meh ... whatever, just a scratch"

The aftermath of the regrettable decision on a thief: "halp! I am down"

 

 

[Anchoku.8142]

I look at animations as pre-cast, channel, after-cast, and direction/orientation indicators. Each is characteristic of a profession skill.

[itspomf.9523]

On 5/28/2021 at 1:45 PM, Aodlop.1907 said:

D/D Thief is a shining example of that design choice, although Daredevil staff 2 is probably the worst offender

 

As someone who mained D/D thief for way too long, and also plays a Daredevil at times, yes, yes it absolutely annoys me.  Deathblossom is awkward to use and watch, and almost all of staff's movement skills look visually awkward because of weird key-framing.  They work well enough (and Heartseeker can be a great gap-closer, if you're in range), but ... it's still a lot of noise to make things happen, Bound and Dust Strike in particular.