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On Player Interaction: The Main Achilies Heel of GW2


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18 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

No, it's like berating people for not looking at something that 90% of the time isn't useful (speaking generally and not specifically about the GW2 forums search system). "Oh, well this one time, the site search is actually well built, so you're stupid and/or lazy."

I disagree.  I use the forums search frequently with much success.  I suppose your mileage varies.

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I hated dueling in every game I've ever had it in. Not interested.  At least a decent percentage of the community is against it every time it's brought up.   Racing is my favorite interactio

You know, WoW Classic has always had a certain appeal for me (hold on, guys, don't get your pitchforks out yet), but I couldn't quite nail down why for the longest time. And then, after watching UberD

You missed my point though. There's plenty of ways to interact in the game, and while I'm not necessarily against adding more, I feel like I'm interacting all day every day. Because I'm a guild with

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I literally typed "open world PVP" in the search bar and found that post in the first page of results.  I only berate for those who don't even try.  It's just plain laziness.

It's not your place to berate anyone on this forum.

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54 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

It's not your place to berate anyone on this forum.

 

Why not? In some cases, it's not justified of course, but they can do it if they want to. (Yes, I like to argue.)

Edited by Arnox.5128
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Can we get this discussion back on track and unstuck it as well by not just focusing on a single specific thing (dueling) and instead talk about why increasing player interactions in general might be beneficial in an MMO?

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The only time I ever felt the sense of community was WvW because you often see the familiar names all the time. People took time to know each other, which guild to look out for. Nobody actually gives a kitten losing or winning, what they wanted is to have fun. Which is why you see WvW players kept playing despite getting the least bang out of their bucks. 
Guild Wars 2 forced themselves to be antisocial, big numbers, and efficiency (and to be fair, this applies to other modern games too). Stat trackers, number of kills, KDR, MMR, ELO ratings, number of times you did a mundane chore, whatever there is.

 

Everything runs like a clock machine and wanted to be the guy with the highest numbers, the best cog of the game. Not to mention the split player base preferences and tribalism behind it. 
Say something about Raids being more accessible, you get the hardcore raiders sending "confused" reactions to your post to justify their gatekeeping of the lore from other players.
"Oh by making them accessible means we wont get new raids since they had to put more work on the old ones! That'll waste developer's precious resources!"
Say something to improve armor skins, maybe the fractals players will claim it will "development resources" and should deal with it. 
Tell them to add more 5 man content, the fashionistas of GW2 will reply to you it will waste "development resources" and claims they paid gemstore items for fashion so the updates should be catered to them. 
Alliances in WvW? No! "Development resources" should be spent elsewhere, said the hardcore raiders.

 

"Development resources" is the out of jail card to downvote your suggestion, as if everyone is competing for a finite resource, like children getting antsy about not getting preferential attention.
"The devs shouldnt listen to you, because ours are better! Please add more content to this (my preferred) type of content instead!". Is basically the summary of  reply by an average GW2 players for literally any suggestions.

I'm not lying if I say GW2 has one of the hidden vile fanbase out there, with tribalistic mindset against other aspect of games they didn't enjoy, despite the cheery supportive vibe they'll love to show in the public. Everyone is keeping, hoarding all the happiness they get from the game only for themselves. Well maybe except WvW community and Meta commanders, but that's about it. Because they cherish the community built around it, and you just enjoy doing things together. No amount of "content updates" will ever beat that level of enjoyment which is why they get the least amount of attention. And they're content with what they had.

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i only play open world b/c it's usually fun and social. from following tags or just randomly hooking up with others when an event happen is the best. people are friendly and chat. wow on the other hand, people are just down right nasty to one another. i mean i am playing tbc and even my own faction is hella mean to one another. this is why no one talks in pugs in wow. it's lame. gw2 is the most social mmo i play. /shrug

 

w/e just like to comment on that LFG ui GW2 has: most worthless tool ever. there is no more than 10 groups in that thing yet there is a million tabs. maybe a revamp is needed? idk.

Edited by fixit.7189
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On 5/31/2021 at 1:42 AM, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Just witnessed a horrific argument in a HoT map chat yet, needing a hero point done, I asked in that same chat if anyone was free to come and do it. One dude replied, brought four of his friends, and knocked the HP out, no questions asked. Then we squaded up and helped each other get any other HPs that were needed until everybody had their stuff, picking up anyone we found at HPs if they requested help. I'll probably never see any of them again, but they were excellent. Systems working as intended.

 

Real thing that really happened tonight; didn't even need LFG.

 

I feel like current player interactions get the job done just fine in this game. What does need tinkering are things like the block, report, and message/invite filtering systems. Ask a number of posters here on the forum about it and they'll tell you all about the awful ways people communicate with the systems we've already got. Not sure that we need more until we get a tune-up on some of those.

This leads me to think that the problem with player retention in this game is that players aren't playing the same content or way as others are. People are intentionally or unintentionally sabotaging their experiences.

 

The people looking for a challenge are not doing the challenging things.

 

The players who say the game is dead and can't find other players are looking for content no one else wants to do.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Alright, everyone! Now that we've shouted at each other for long enough about dueling, let's now take a break from that and discuss other things. I said I would make a list of other possible player interaction tools a while ago and I apologize for not delivering till now. Now, this is a rather scattered list in that some of these things I have added on the fly and haven't given them full thought as to whether they'd truly be a good idea, so YMMV with some of these. Also, at the end, there's some QoL suggestions that aren't entirely linked to player interaction per se but would be very helpful. And without further ado...

___

Novelties:
Temporarily share unlocked tonics (maybe dyes too)
Take control of your own minis
 

Guilds:
Friending guilds
Designate rival guilds (mostly for GvG if it comes)
Guild leaders (only) can mass-send mail to guild members
Guild leaders (only) can embed an image in guild message (very iffy)
Guild icon and appropriate guild slot is highlighted if guild message changes
Guilds can schedule events via calendar
Guild alliances
Custom guild teams
Global guild list

 

Chat:
Dice roller
More emotes

 

Groups:
Teleport to squad commander (as long as player is in the same area and instance)
Commander has an outline around their entry on the group list
Left-clicking a player in the group list targets the player
Targeted players are highlighted on the map

 

WvW:
Give much more reward for servers being in the top 3 in WvW
List and search past WvW rankings

 

Mail:
Allow to send one mail every five seconds
Increase message length
Allow weapon/build/item/etc. links in mail as in chat

 

PvP:
Guild vs. guild
List and search past GvG rankings (if GvG is added)
List and search past PvP rankings

 

General:
Allow players to see achievements, masteries, and current skins
All achievements are now unlockable titles (their names are the default title)
Custom statuses (only on inspect)
LFG overhaul
Option for temporary ignores
Trade system

 

Quality of Life:
Highlight and copy chat text
Highlight and copy mail text
Musical intruments have their own bindable keys for playing
Friends list shows game ID even if player is nicknamed
/age shows how long till next nearest birthday
Search for locations on world map
Allow chat when in world map

Edited by Arnox.5128
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A feature pack with most, if not all of these changes would, in my opinion, drastically improve the experience of all players. Some of it, like the guild stuff, feels like an expansion detail, but who knows. For me, since I'm an RPer? Chat, Mail, General, Quality of Life - Gimme these changes, Anet.

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Some of these sound interesting, but some I'm not sure what you're suggesting. The ability to teleport to squad commanders would be especially useful, although maybe it would need to be restricted in certain areas. (It would certainly open up options for the [PINK] guild on EU who teleport people through jumping puzzles.)

 

Here's my questions on some of your suggestions:

 

What is guild friending, and how is it different from alliances? (I assume alliances would be identical to GW1 where guilds could form an alliance with other guilds giving them a shared chat channel and other perks.)

 

What would a guild rivalry do? I get that you want to fight other guilds, but would you only be able to fight rivals? Or would it mean something more than that?

 

Why have a dice roller in chat? What would it be used for? (GW1 had one, but I never saw anyone use it.)

 

What kind of rewards do you think would be appropriate for top 3 servers in WvW?

 

What do you mean by custom statuses? I have no idea what that would be at all.

 

What does 'allow chat when in map' mean? Are there maps which don't allow chat?

 

Edited by Danikat.8537
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15 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Some of these sound interesting, but some I'm not sure what you're suggesting. The ability to teleport to squad commanders would be especially useful, although maybe it would need to be restricted in certain areas. (It would certainly open up options for the [PINK] guild on EU who teleport people through jumping puzzles.)

 

Here's my questions on some of your suggestions:

 

What is guild friending, and how is it different from alliances? (I assume alliances would be identical to GW1 where guilds could form an alliance with other guilds giving them a shared chat channel and other perks.)

 

What would a guild rivalry do? I get that you want to fight other guilds, but would you only be able to fight rivals? Or would it mean something more than that?

 

Why have a dice roller in chat? What would it be used for? (GW1 had one, but I never saw anyone use it.)

 

What kind of rewards do you think would be appropriate for top 3 servers in WvW?

 

What do you mean by custom statuses? I have no idea what that would be at all.

 

What does 'allow chat when in map' mean? Are there maps which don't allow chat?

 

I can answer a few of these, I think - Dice rolling especially would be -amazing- for role-players who do narrative/DM events in-game, DnD style. Custom statuses I assume mean like Discord's custom status.

Allow chat when in map, I assume, means the actual map opened with the M key.

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Posted (edited)

I posted the list in the OP for easy reference since the mods decided to merge the threads.

 

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Some of these sound interesting, but some I'm not sure what you're suggesting. The ability to teleport to squad commanders would be especially useful, although maybe it would need to be restricted in certain areas. (It would certainly open up options for the [PINK] guild on EU who teleport people through jumping puzzles.)

 

Here's my questions on some of your suggestions:

 

What is guild friending, and how is it different from alliances? (I assume alliances would be identical to GW1 where guilds could form an alliance with other guilds giving them a shared chat channel and other perks.)

 

What would a guild rivalry do? I get that you want to fight other guilds, but would you only be able to fight rivals? Or would it mean something more than that?

 

Why have a dice roller in chat? What would it be used for? (GW1 had one, but I never saw anyone use it.)

 

What kind of rewards do you think would be appropriate for top 3 servers in WvW?

 

What do you mean by custom statuses? I have no idea what that would be at all.

 

What does 'allow chat when in map' mean? Are there maps which don't allow chat?

 

 

- Yes, alliances would work almost if not entirely identically to GW1. As to guild friending, it simply means you can pull up the roster for the guild at any time but that's about it. Maybe I should have called it "guild watching" instead.

 

- Guild rivalrys are pretty much for fun PvP purposes. They wouldn't have any mechanical impact (although I suppose they could if people really wanted it). They can also be used to designate guilds that a guild, for whatever reason, just does not like.

 

- Dice rollers are for any situation where you want or need random numbers. You can use this for games, bets, roleplaying, item trading, or just general chat shenanigans.

 

- Ehhhhh... That's really hard to say. It obviously needs to be very impactful considering all the work it would require, but it also shouldn't put other servers at a disadvantage for not winning. Maybe everyone in the server gets one free item from the gemstore, barring upgrades.

 

- Custom statuses meaning instead of only having Online, Away, and Invisible to work with, you can instead write your own status like, "Do not disturb" for example.

 

- When you press M to open the map screen, the chat is weirdly not accessible. This change would simply make the chat usable when in the map screen

Edited by Arnox.5128
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On 5/31/2021 at 2:15 AM, Vayne.8563 said:

The right guild is always special. The wrong guild is always crap. I  was in a couple of special GW 1 guilds and a couple of crap ones. But nothing, for me anyway, is better than my Guild here, which is 9 years old.  A guild is as special as the people in it.  The game doesn't make better or worse guilds. People make better or worse guilds.

You're 100% wrong and I don't care about your feelings about this opinion. This game needs a better guild system, more guild halls and better guild halls. It needs GvG and alliances from the first game; The fact that they chose not to do that is a horrible crime because that was some of the best content in guild wars 1. I don't really care about raids, fractals, dungeons, strikes, DRM's or whatever garbage they add. I at this stage show up when there is an update, play for a bit and F off. My guild is so close to abandoning the game, most likely still will regardless of what they add.

But if guilds actually meant something? If they had a purpose outside of being like a facebook group? maybe people would care. Right now you could go guildless and the game hardly changes, guilds serve no purpose once so ever and are a glorified friends-list. actually the friends list almost invalidates guilds. Sure you have the guild hall grinds, guild missions and so on but when you do them all and get your hall maxed out? What else is there? Not much. And the guild missions are hardly "engaging" or "fun". Spvp should of been GvG and Alliance battles, not what it is or became. 

Im the complete opposite of you, I don't interact with the community at all unless Im In WvW and at that stage Im a roamer so I don't care and don't support anyone unless its an objective I want to take. Im in a single guild because its been my home since the original game but if this guild left; I'd just go guildless as there is no reason to interact with the community. You can solo just about everything; So why bother dealing with anyone else? The content I can't solo doesn't appeal to me. So to me its dead content. And I feel there are more players like that then there are like you. Its one of the reasons guilds in WoW and ESO are also kind of irrelevant and you see more guildless players than guilded ones. There is no point. Its a waste of time, and it is a huge waste of time. Because they refuse to give a CORE System love... which seems to be a trend. WvW needs content? Eh. Ignore it. They will eventually quit and we can focus on more pointless crap like A BOBBLEHEAD TOY. Or an Aviator toy, or skins in the gem-store. They sure do update that gemstore a ton, Im sure they have decent revenue to fix these systems/modes that are only dying because of neglect.

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1 hour ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

You're 100% wrong and I don't care about your feelings about this opinion. This game needs a better guild system, more guild halls and better guild halls. It needs GvG and alliances from the first game; The fact that they chose not to do that is a horrible crime because that was some of the best content in guild wars 1. I don't really care about raids, fractals, dungeons, strikes, DRM's or whatever garbage they add. I at this stage show up when there is an update, play for a bit and F off. My guild is so close to abandoning the game, most likely still will regardless of what they add.

But if guilds actually meant something? If they had a purpose outside of being like a facebook group? maybe people would care. Right now you could go guildless and the game hardly changes, guilds serve no purpose once so ever and are a glorified friends-list. actually the friends list almost invalidates guilds. Sure you have the guild hall grinds, guild missions and so on but when you do them all and get your hall maxed out? What else is there? Not much. And the guild missions are hardly "engaging" or "fun". Spvp should of been GvG and Alliance battles, not what it is or became. 

Im the complete opposite of you, I don't interact with the community at all unless Im In WvW and at that stage Im a roamer so I don't care and don't support anyone unless its an objective I want to take. Im in a single guild because its been my home since the original game but if this guild left; I'd just go guildless as there is no reason to interact with the community. You can solo just about everything; So why bother dealing with anyone else? The content I can't solo doesn't appeal to me. So to me its dead content. And I feel there are more players like that then there are like you. Its one of the reasons guilds in WoW and ESO are also kind of irrelevant and you see more guildless players than guilded ones. There is no point. Its a waste of time, and it is a huge waste of time. Because they refuse to give a CORE System love... which seems to be a trend. WvW needs content? Eh. Ignore it. They will eventually quit and we can focus on more pointless crap like A BOBBLEHEAD TOY. Or an Aviator toy, or skins in the gem-store. They sure do update that gemstore a ton, Im sure they have decent revenue to fix these systems/modes that are only dying because of neglect.

Well, you may not care about my opinion, but I don't disagree with you completely. The guild system needs some love.


However, if you're a guy who likes to organize and do stuff, the guild system is there.  It's not robust. It's adequate for what I need from it.  Sure I'd like it to be stronger, but if you're going to argue that it makes guilds worthless, I'd have to disagree.


Because I've talked to a whole lot of people who wouldn't have stayed with the game without being in the guild or were about to leave the guild, or who had left several times because they couldn't find the right guild.  


There are some people who prefer to be in a guild and for those people finding the right guild means a lot. I'm one of them. I'd never have played ANY MMO for 9 years without the right guild.

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On 5/31/2021 at 2:26 AM, Arnox.5128 said:

 

That's still not enough of a reason to dismiss dueling entirely. And may I remind you that making builds both was and is a huge part of Guild Wars combat. kitten, GW2 was even originally designed from the ground up to buck the holy trinity design that we kept seeing over and over again. You're making it sound like if we allowed dueling, some classes would just always curbstomp other classes. And finally, we technically do have dueling in a very roundabout way. There's the FFA arena in HotM. Tons of dueling is done there and I never hear any complaining about it.

If you want to duel with pve rules, join a guild with an arena.  If you want to duel otherwise, go to HotM and fight there or meet up in EotM for WvW rules.

Anet doesn't need the balancing nightmare that is fixing pve rules around dueling in addition to pvp and wvw rules.

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1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Well, you may not care about my opinion, but I don't disagree with you completely. The guild system needs some love.


However, if you're a guy who likes to organize and do stuff, the guild system is there.  It's not robust. It's adequate for what I need from it.  Sure I'd like it to be stronger, but if you're going to argue that it makes guilds worthless, I'd have to disagree.


Because I've talked to a whole lot of people who wouldn't have stayed with the game without being in the guild or were about to leave the guild, or who had left several times because they couldn't find the right guild.  


There are some people who prefer to be in a guild and for those people finding the right guild means a lot. I'm one of them. I'd never have played ANY MMO for 9 years without the right guild.

The only thing that has kept me in this game is my guild. But that doesn't mean I don't see that the guild system is complete trash and needs a drastic overhaul to give more to that type of play. Guilds should be in some ways integral and finding the right one while important, means nothing if you're not able to do content as a guild for the guild. 

Guild wars 1 did it right, this game does it wrong. (It has good things but those goods, dont outweigh to outright disregard of what guilds are supposed to be or what guilds should have for players wanting to be part of a guild.)

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3 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

The only thing that has kept me in this game is my guild. But that doesn't mean I don't see that the guild system is complete trash and needs a drastic overhaul to give more to that type of play. Guilds should be in some ways integral and finding the right one while important, means nothing if you're not able to do content as a guild for the guild. 

Guild wars 1 did it right, this game does it wrong. (It has good things but those goods, dont outweigh to outright disregard of what guilds are supposed to be or what guilds should have for players wanting to be part of a guild.)

We're having two different conversations here.

You seem to be thinking that if guild stuff can be improved it has no value at all.  Yes, the Guild system in Guild Wars 1 was better, sure, I agree. No issues there.


Which has nothing at all to do with anything I've said.  I'm 100% for improving the guild system in this game. But it doesn't change anything else.  Guild Wars 1 was a PvP centric game at the start and the guild system was designed around that. Guild Wars 2 was a PvE centric game from the start and the guild system was designed around that.  


I could care less if they added guild vs guild to the game because I wouildn't be playing it and neither would be guild, same as Guild Wars 1. But I'd absolutely welcome the alliance system back.

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11 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

We're having two different conversations here.

You seem to be thinking that if guild stuff can be improved it has no value at all.  Yes, the Guild system in Guild Wars 1 was better, sure, I agree. No issues there.


Which has nothing at all to do with anything I've said.  I'm 100% for improving the guild system in this game. But it doesn't change anything else.  Guild Wars 1 was a PvP centric game at the start and the guild system was designed around that. Guild Wars 2 was a PvE centric game from the start and the guild system was designed around that.  


I could care less if they added guild vs guild to the game because I wouildn't be playing it and neither would be guild, same as Guild Wars 1. But I'd absolutely welcome the alliance system back.

I mean Im glad you wouldn't if you don't enjoy it. But I personally won't change my views that they might as well just kept guilds out of the game, its pointless as it is now. I know this is a PvE game (Partly why it fails to be as good as the original, gameplay is bounds ahead but the games PvE is boring as heck.) 

And I fail to see how its designed around PvE, you have a few guild missions that are... dated to say the least. You can't use your guild hall as a hub for your players and you also can't really even clean them up. We have three guild halls that only upgrade so far, and outside of decorations that hardly fit them there isn't much else to do with the guild hall. The arena is horrible because now it doesn't share balance with actual pvp so its moot. Ontop of that, outside of grabbing your daily mats most guild halls of the guilds I know are hardly if ever even used. It turned out to be a waste of resources which is a shame (Because they are cool, albeit abandoned content)

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13 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

I mean Im glad you wouldn't if you don't enjoy it. But I personally won't change my views that they might as well just kept guilds out of the game, its pointless as it is now. I know this is a PvE game (Partly why it fails to be as good as the original, gameplay is bounds ahead but the games PvE is boring as heck.) 

And I fail to see how its designed around PvE, you have a few guild missions that are... dated to say the least. You can't use your guild hall as a hub for your players and you also can't really even clean them up. We have three guild halls that only upgrade so far, and outside of decorations that hardly fit them there isn't much else to do with the guild hall. The arena is horrible because now it doesn't share balance with actual pvp so its moot. Ontop of that, outside of grabbing your daily mats most guild halls of the guilds I know are hardly if ever even used. It turned out to be a waste of resources which is a shame (Because they are cool, albeit abandoned content)

Just as an aside to this conversation and about whether or not the game is PvE-centric, I've been playing for an entire year without being in any sort of guild at all, really. I was in one with 5 people including a friend, but never even exchanged one word with another member, other than the person who invited me.

 

It strikes me that if I've completed 100% of all the maps, tons and tons of collections, obtained 321 mastery points (I'd work harder on picking up the other HoT ones, but they don't seem to matter), taking on all the world bosses (in zerg groups, obviously), without having to have been in a guild at all, there's a good argument to be made for GW2 being a PVE-centric game.

 

OTOH, I'd love for guild stuff to be enhanced. The better everything is, well, ... the better. But as to joining one, well, I just started looking earlier today.

Edited by Danger Ferret.6342
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1 minute ago, Danger Ferret.6342 said:

Just as an aside to this conversation and about whether or not the game is PvE-centric, I've been playing for an entire year without being in any sort of guild at all, really. I was in one with 5 people including a friend, but never even exchanged one word with another player.

 

It strikes me that if I've completed 100% of all the maps, tons and tons of collections, obtained 321 mastery points (I'd work harder on picking up the other HoT ones, but they don't seem to matter), taking on all the world bosses (in zerg groups, obviously), without having to have been in a guild at all, there's a good argument to be made for GW2 being a PVE-centric game.

 

OTOH, I'd love for guild stuff to be enhanced. The better everything is, well, ... the better. But as to joining one, well, I just started looking earlier today.

Oh I know its 100% a pve focused game, they've made that abundantly clear and thats fine. My main point was that regardless guilds as a whole need love to entice newer players to engage with the system at all (Yourself as a good example.) There just needs to be more for guilds to be apart of/do/contain. PvE and PvP both included in that, GvG should be a mode and alliances should be a system for smaller guilds to band together so they can take on bigger guilds. 

Granted not every guild should have to GvG but in an ideal world they'd be able to claim a map instance and get stuff for leading the charge for say a dragons stand or something? Or a few guilds could contribute to the war-effort for special stuff, or participation boosts? I dont know. Just incorporating the guild systems, nature of guilds and that kind of community within the community would be great; It is a game after all first and foremost. Guilds shouldn't feel like a tacked on addition, it should feel like a proponent of the game worth investing time into and playing with and In. Right now... ? Its just a meme. A dead one at that.

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3 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Oh I know its 100% a pve focused game, they've made that abundantly clear and thats fine. My main point was that regardless guilds as a whole need love to entice newer players to engage with the system at all (Yourself as a good example.) There just needs to be more for guilds to be apart of/do/contain. PvE and PvP both included in that, GvG should be a mode and alliances should be a system for smaller guilds to band together so they can take on bigger guilds. 

Granted not every guild should have to GvG but in an ideal world they'd be able to claim a map instance and get stuff for leading the charge for say a dragons stand or something? Or a few guilds could contribute to the war-effort for special stuff, or participation boosts? I dont know. Just incorporating the guild systems, nature of guilds and that kind of community within the community would be great; It is a game after all first and foremost. Guilds shouldn't feel like a tacked on addition, it should feel like a proponent of the game worth investing time into and playing with and In. Right now... ? Its just a meme. A dead one at that.

100%. A more robust guild system would be great, and I can definitely see how it would benefit me directly, as well as the game in general.

 

Hopefully, this is one of the things the developers talk about.

 

I'd even participate in GvG with a good guild.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

I mean Im glad you wouldn't if you don't enjoy it. But I personally won't change my views that they might as well just kept guilds out of the game, its pointless as it is now. I know this is a PvE game (Partly why it fails to be as good as the original, gameplay is bounds ahead but the games PvE is boring as heck.) 

And I fail to see how its designed around PvE, you have a few guild missions that are... dated to say the least. You can't use your guild hall as a hub for your players and you also can't really even clean them up. We have three guild halls that only upgrade so far, and outside of decorations that hardly fit them there isn't much else to do with the guild hall. The arena is horrible because now it doesn't share balance with actual pvp so its moot. Ontop of that, outside of grabbing your daily mats most guild halls of the guilds I know are hardly if ever even used. It turned out to be a waste of resources which is a shame (Because they are cool, albeit abandoned content)

Let's just look at logic. You say they might as well kept the guilds out of the game because they don't fit you. And I'm saying that I wouldn't even play this game at all if it weren't for my guild and others have said the same thing.  There are people who want that family/social experience and the guild provides it, whether it's adequate or not.


If a percentage of people are playing this game solely due to their guilds than how can anyone say they might have left guilds out of this game. I get the guild system doesn't fit your requirements. It's adequate (not great but adequate) for mine.  I believe enough people would not be playing this game at all without their guilds as to make the game unviable to continue. You may not need guilds. But if you do want to play this game, having them in in their current form is infinitely better than not having them.

 

Edit: Official guild missions aren't the main point of this game. Dynamic events are. There' s a specialized guild called Sands that does regular Dry Top runs. It's their thing. They dont' need a guild mission to have something to do as a guild.  There's are several guilds around Triple Threat. Or world bosses. Or meta guilds. Or farming guilds. The guild doesn't need a guild activity because the whole game is filled with guild activities. My guild helps people get achievements they need that they can't solo. Another guild mission more or less won't change my guild at all.

Edited by Vayne.8563
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20 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Let's just look at logic. You say they might as well kept the guilds out of the game because they don't fit you. And I'm saying that I wouldn't even play this game at all if it weren't for my guild and others have said the same thing.  There are people who want that family/social experience and the guild provides it, whether it's adequate or not.


If a percentage of people are playing this game solely due to their guilds than how can anyone say they might have left guilds out of this game. I get the guild system doesn't fit your requirements. It's adequate (not great but adequate) for mine.  I believe enough people would not be playing this game at all without their guilds as to make the game unviable to continue. You may not need guilds. But if you do want to play this game, having them in in their current form is infinitely better than not having them.

 

Edit: Official guild missions aren't the main point of this game. Dynamic events are. There' s a specialized guild called Sands that does regular Dry Top runs. It's their thing. They dont' need a guild mission to have something to do as a guild.  There's are several guilds around Triple Threat. Or world bosses. Or meta guilds. Or farming guilds. The guild doesn't need a guild activity because the whole game is filled with guild activities. My guild helps people get achievements they need that they can't solo. Another guild mission more or less won't change my guild at all.

I know far more people who think the reverse of you, Maybe Im just not the target audience of the game. Sure feels like it. So whatever, leave it as it is; Won't be the first or last content mode they've left abandoned. 

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2 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

I know far more people who think the reverse of you, Maybe Im just not the target audience of the game. Sure feels like it. So whatever, leave it as it is; Won't be the first or last content mode they've left abandoned. 

Right because you play with people who think the way you do, the same way  I play with people who think like me. But when Mike O talked about breakdown, people who were prodominantly PvPers were 10% of the population and people who were predominantly WvWers were 30%.  The other 60% were predominantly PvEers.

Edited by Vayne.8563
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