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On Player Interaction: The Main Achilies Heel of GW2


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3 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Right because you play with people who think the way you do, the same way  I play with people who think like me. But when Mike O talked about breakdown, people who were prodominantly PvPers were 10% of the population and people who were predominantly WvWers were 30%.  The other 60% were predominantly PvEers.

No game mode should go without content. Period. You introduce a game mode be it at launch or otherwise, support it. A-net does anything but that.

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Oh what I would give for this game to have a simple trade option so you didn't have to mail everything which leads to insanely easy scams. Like other games are launch allow trade, and you have to mouse over the item or amount and also click ok and then if any changes are made your ok goes away. Simple things like that. No inspect option my guess is because then you'd actually see how badly geared the people around you are. No /follow, no /target npc. (to be honest, no where near enough chat commands) 

 

The fact that even people Like Muk whose played this game for years, does a give away and has to slowly mail people because if he does it too fast the game locks his mail box... 

 

lfg needs some work I agree, I'm so glad at least a commander tag allows easy access to groups, if you can pay the 300 gold requirement to have the ability to do it.  Otherwise you can only form groups of 10, and if anyone in that 10 tags up they take over the group. At least for now its easy enough to find groups for LW2 content due to us using the Core Tyria tab. 

 

GW2 is an excellent game no doubt about that, but I am glad I don't really pve much, and am glad in wvw/pvp you can just do that anywhere at anytime with easy access. 

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12 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Oh what I would give for this game to have a simple trade option so you didn't have to mail everything which leads to insanely easy scams. Like other games are launch allow trade, and you have to mouse over the item or amount and also click ok and then if any changes are made your ok goes away. Simple things like that. No inspect option my guess is because then you'd actually see how badly geared the people around you are. No /follow, no /target npc. (to be honest, no where near enough chat commands) 

 

The fact that even people Like Muk whose played this game for years, does a give away and has to slowly mail people because if he does it too fast the game locks his mail box... 

 

lfg needs some work I agree, I'm so glad at least a commander tag allows easy access to groups, if you can pay the 300 gold requirement to have the ability to do it.  Otherwise you can only form groups of 10, and if anyone in that 10 tags up they take over the group. At least for now its easy enough to find groups for LW2 content due to us using the Core Tyria tab. 

 

GW2 is an excellent game no doubt about that, but I am glad I don't really pve much, and am glad in wvw/pvp you can just do that anywhere at anytime with easy access. 

Gw1 have p2p trade and people are still scammed easily so hence why they dident want that support hassle in gw2.

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On 6/10/2021 at 9:45 PM, Linken.6345 said:

Gw1 have p2p trade and people are still scammed easily so hence why they dident want that support hassle in gw2.

 

How it is designed? Is it designed as to how I Said? and how is mailing better? If you have to re-accept any changes and hover over and spend time reading on items or currencies traded, if you get scammed that's on you. What they did in GW2 was make it a billion times easier to scam people and you think this system is better or? lol 

 

Other games do trading 100Times better then GW2 does. 

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Why does one want P2P Trading?

Either it's because of the limit on the Trading Post (10,000 Gold) which can't be a concern for a large portion of the playerbase, or...

It's because someone wants to sell an item for more than the Trading Post offers, which would be scamming new/uninformed players. 

 

The Trading Post removes the possibility of taking advantage of another player.

 

And yes, Guild Wars P2P trading had all the safeguards, and yet players still managed to use it to scam others/be scammed. 

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13 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

How it is designed? Is it designed as to how I Said? and how is mailing better? If you have to re-accept any changes and hover over and spend time reading on items or currencies traded, if you get scammed that's on you.

It did work like that in GW1, and people still got scammed. And it was not ony just on them - it was also on support, that had to investigate all those scam complains. That's why they moved away from this system to one that is completely scam-free.

 

Notice, that people asking for direct trade system are doing it for two reasons. First is that they want to circumvent the TP tax (and why exactly Anet would want to make this easier on you?). Second is that trading this way lets them obtain more favourable trades (because on TP they have to compete with others which forces a reasonably fair environment, but in direct trade the other person can sometimes be persuaded that the item you sell is worth more/item you buy is worth less). Notice, how that second reason is just inches away from a desire to scam others.

 

13 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

What they did in GW2 was make it a billion times easier to scam people and you think this system is better or? lol 

Yes, the trading system (which is TP, not mailing) is far superior, and is practically scam-free. In fact, this is the very reason some people want to avoid it.

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A bit late on this thread but here is my pov from an older mmorpg player.

 

I've played almost exclusively mmorpg since the ~2000 and have seen how mmorpg evolved in the bad way.

My english is limited but I'll try to explain my pov the best I can.

 

I see people speaking about interaction tool w/o understanding that these tool ARE the problem for low interaction.

Same for all these "recent" game who put the leveling and grinding experience in the easily boring way this is.

 

So, why I think like this ?

I've play Lineage 2, a lot, almost 10 years. It's was by far the most grindfest I've ever see in a game.

And you know what ? It was amazing ! I only have amazing memories on this game and I never felt that again in other mmorpg thant come after.

 

You know why it's was not boring despite the fact it was a hell of a grind ?

That because since the leveling phase (almost infiny by how long it take for the avera player to get max level, unless like me you played since the start.) you had to play with people. 
Why ? Because before all those "recent" mmorpg their was class, mostly trinity, but most of the time way more.

Ranged physical, magical, assassin, tank, summoner, many different support/heal/recharger (for mana), etc..

Each class was heavily focused on 1 aspect and the open world was fast very dangerous so you can't do it alone.

 

Added to that, no communication tool except of chat and guild. So, what people did ? They speak to each other, and when they matched and having fun and good result playing togheter they added to friendlist even if not same guild or even in war with the guild of the player.

Open world pvp + very low drop rate on some specific craft material was also a huge factor on peaple speaking trying to negociate, making war, elaborat strategy on the fly to try denied a zone from a random guild while pugging and ofc, no instanced content (And I don't even speak of those World Boss with huge respawn time and a chance (60% if I remember) to drop an unique powerful jewel making huge PvP scale / alliance / etc..

 

All that combined made the world a very dangerous but very fun place. I've encounter and have fun with far more than hundred and hundred player and never find that in other game because now most class can do anything solo, no danger, class can buff/heal/dps/evading in pretty much the same basis on this mmorpg generation (gw2, aion, terra, dragon nest, etc..) and it has gotten worse and worse. Now people just see the end of a game while a mmorpg was at base made to not have one and made people play togheter in a fantasy world meeting people you'll never have meet otherwise.

 

Now, outside of some instanced content and a bunch of meta (for gw2, most game have a dead open world) you rarely speak to stranger or rarely get answer anyway outside of gaming question. And I said that for GW2 who, imho, have one of the most amazing community right now. Imagine other game.. 

 

Sorry for the wall, I hope it's readable and my point is understandable.

All for that to say, the more option you had to get in a group/guild and the less difficulty the grind, leveling, open world, class offer the less people will interact.

 

Also, yes, I'm maybe a bit nostalgic ^^

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I really like the initial post, very interesting analysis. I've played many mmos from Lineage and it's clones to eve and wow, also fps mmos like Planetside.  What this game lacks is some drama.

This is not necessarily bad, depends on what kind of player you are. And it's fine to have a game where everyone is nice and cuddly and even forums are kept clean.  But drama is what invokes stronger, memorable feelings in people, be it good or bad.

I to don't mind to argue from time to time.

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22 minutes ago, Orack.9756 said:

You know why it's was not boring despite the fact it was a hell of a grind ?

That because since the leveling phase (almost infiny by how long it take for the avera player to get max level, unless like me you played since the start.) you had to play with people. 
Why ? Because before all those "recent" mmorpg their was class, mostly trinity, but most of the time way more.

Ranged physical, magical, assassin, tank, summoner, many different support/heal/recharger (for mana), etc..

Each class was heavily focused on 1 aspect and the open world was fast very dangerous so you can't do it alone.

This is very true but sadly the fast paced lifestyle no longer allows such mmorpg to thrive. It is very true, back then classes, jobs, professions are made to be incomplete and to fill the missing holes of an MMORPG party. Levelling wasn't a chore, or a "gate" for the players to get to the good stuff, grinding IS the gameplay. In GW2, and the MMOs that came out during and after GW2, are all geared to be self-sufficient without relying on others. 
Ragnarok Online made it clear you need a priest to help you with the health recovery. You need the swordsman to pull in the mobs, and the wizard to cast their AOEs. You NEED friends, otherwise you be the sucker to buy healthpots every levelling runs. Map chat are full of people asking for party, for a levelling partner. It's weird that GW2 decided to put social (the whole point of MMO), in the backseat, just look how dated LFG tool looks like. So many tabs, and doesn't automatically opens the tab of the map you're into. And the idea of Megaservers while helpful to keep the instance population up, it's hard to tell if a meta has a tag or not.

With social climate today everyone wants instant gratification, blow loads of cash and leave. Not to mention they'll just ask friends outside the game through discord, making in-game chat a wasteland. The aging playerbase who are married, have kids and responsibilities, made it impossible for them to hang out 2am doing levelling runs with some stranger they met at starting area.

Anyways I want to add another sub-discussion. I've recently play ESO and FFXIV, I find the concept of housing amusing and I usually look up LFG and find public houses for a "wind-off" moment after a tedious gameplay session . I find it very refreshing going to a "new bar" every day, and I wonder if GW2 can do something similar. If housing is impossible, even if it's a guild hall I would appreciate them. Let guild halls be open to the public for people to visit and chill. Have some roleplay furniture, like beds, chairs. Make people feel homely, and want to interact with people. Add more emotes. PvP Minigames that is actually fun! Make it like that one underground cave party in Lion Arch where people have fun, but actually put some effort in it.
The soft side of an MMO in GW2 is largely abandoned since launch. It's time for GW2 to do something about it.

 

Spoiler

Can't wait for someone to reply to me how my suggestion "would waste Anet precious development resources".

 

Edited by keramatzmode.1906
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2 minutes ago, keramatzmode.1906 said:

This is very true but sadly the fast paced lifestyle no longer allows such mmorpg to thrive. It is very true, back then classes, jobs, professions are made to be incomplete and to fill the missing holes of an MMORPG party. Levelling wasn't a chore, or a "gate" for the players to get to the good stuff, grinding IS the gameplay. In GW2, and the MMOs that came out during and after GW2, are all geared to be self-sufficient without relying on others. 
Ragnarok Online made it clear you need a priest to help you with the health recovery. You need the swordsman to pull in the mobs, and the wizard to cast their AOEs. You NEED friends, otherwise you be the sucker to buy healthpots every levelling runs. Map chat are full of people asking for party, for a levelling partner. It's weird that GW2 decided to put social (the whole point of MMO), in the backseat, just look how dated LFG tool looks like. So many tabs, and doesn't automatically opens the tab of the map you're into. And the idea of Megaservers while helpful to keep the instance population up, it's hard to tell if a meta has a tag or not.

With social climate today everyone wants instant gratification, blow loads of cash and leave. Not to mention they'll just ask friends outside the game through discord, making in-game chat a wasteland. The aging playerbase who are married, have kids and responsibilities, made it impossible for them to hang out 2am doing levelling runs with some stranger they met at starting area.

Anyways I want to add another sub-discussion. I've recently play ESO and FFXIV, I find the concept of housing amusing and I usually look up LFG and find public houses for a "wind-off" moment after a tedious gameplay session . I find it very refreshing going to a "new bar" every day, and I wonder if GW2 can do something similar. If housing is impossible, even if it's a guild hall I would appreciate them. Let guild halls be open to the public for people to visit and chill. Have some roleplay furniture, like beds, chairs. Make people feel homely, and want to interact with people. Add more emotes. PvP Minigames that is actually fun! Make it like that one underground cave party in Lion Arch where people have fun, but actually put some effort in it.
The soft side of an MMO in GW2 is largely abandoned since launch. It's time for GW2 to do something about it.

 

  Hide contents

Can't wait for someone to reply to me how my suggestion "would waste Anet precious development resources".

 

I was on ESO for 2 year before coming in GW2 because I wasn't happy with the direction they take and all the bug.

ESO have an amazing story and I agree Housing, even if badly implanted and behind a pain w/o mod is amazing and I'm sad GW2 don't have this because a friend stayed on ESO cuz GW2 don't have it and she really like this aspect in an mmo.

 

I'm very surprise they don't have add it yet tbh.

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On 6/9/2021 at 3:30 PM, Thornwolf.9721 said:

No game mode should go without content. Period. You introduce a game mode be it at launch or otherwise, support it. A-net does anything but that.

I think you and Vayne are both making great points. What's good for one player/group isn't going to satisfy another. It does seem to be a common complaint, though, that some modes aren't getting the support or development they need. I'm a PVE player exclusively, but I absolutely get your point here. Poorly executed/supported game modes are just going to frustrate players who prefer that style of play, while diverting dev/support resources away from the more popular game mode: in this case PvE.

 

I know that, were things opposite, and GW2 were mostly a PVP or WVW-centric game with little support going to PVE content, even though it's advertised as being one of the play-as-you-like options, I'd be disappointed too. Why do these things at all if they aren't going to be done well? The problem that "well" is often so different from person to person.

 

As to housing, I just started playing ESO. Since I am not at all guild-centric, having some of the benefits of a guild to use as a solo player is a great idea. Being able to place stuff from my inventory into personal storage space is about the only thing I could see adding to home instances to make a worthwhile living space for GW2. The rest is just decoration (for me). But for the more serious roleplayers, definitely having something like this would be cool.

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On 6/12/2021 at 10:09 AM, Orack.9756 said:

I was on ESO for 2 year before coming in GW2 because I wasn't happy with the direction they take and all the bug.

ESO have an amazing story and I agree Housing, even if badly implanted and behind a pain w/o mod is amazing and I'm sad GW2 don't have this because a friend stayed on ESO cuz GW2 don't have it and she really like this aspect in an mmo.

 

I'm very surprise they don't have add it yet tbh.

ESO was also my main for years, until they increase CP cap to 1000 or w/e the hell.

 

They want to be endlessly grindy like WoW, only choice is GW2 .

 

But yea the game is missing a lot, especially options to roleplay and side activities. Rp is insanely active in FF14, I think its actually one of its main draws, along with its very good instanced content. But just feels too archaic. At least GW2 feels modern, hopefully in another few years we will have basic features that others have.

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On 6/12/2021 at 8:20 PM, Danger Ferret.6342 said:

I know that, were things opposite, and GW2 were mostly a PVP or WVW-centric game with little support going to PVE content, even though it's advertised as being one of the play-as-you-like options, I'd be disappointed too.

 

If you decide to play a PvP game, i don't see why you'd expect to get any PvE regardless of PR talk. Resources are directed at the most beneficial thing no matter what and obviously the main attraction of the game is the most beneficial.

 

On 6/12/2021 at 8:20 PM, Danger Ferret.6342 said:

Why do these things at all if they aren't going to be done well?

Now that is the real question.

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