Best WvW roaming option

[JekaPro.4391]

I've been playing mirage for some time, but I'm tired of dieing outnumbered without ability to disengage any time. So I desided to try thief with shadow arts.

Builds I'm qurently looking at are:

1. Power Deadeye rifle

2. Power Daredevil d/p

3. Condi Core thief p/d

 

I'm not looking at s/d variats, cuz they usually without shadow arts and much disengage potential, so that is besicly just another dueling build. Help me with desision please 😄

 

If you have cool builds, you may share them with me. TY

p/s currently optimizing stats on deadeye playing with HP/Precision/power/ferocity

[Spiral.3724]

I was roaming in WvW the other day, and a Daredevil Thief kept appearing out of nowhere, killing me in less than 5 seconds, and disappearing. I watched him do it just as easily to others who wandered near his location. What build is this????

[kash.9213]

26 minutes ago, Spiral.3724 said:

I was roaming in WvW the other day, and a Daredevil Thief kept appearing out of nowhere, killing me in less than 5 seconds, and disappearing. I watched him do it just as easily to others who wandered near his location. What build is this????

Don't make things up to make statements, you gave no information on purpose. If you ever run into something like that in reality, then look at your combat log and watch what they're actually doing and using against other people for awhile. 

[Phantom.8130]

On 6/2/2021 at 12:41 PM, Spiral.3724 said:

I was roaming in WvW the other day, and a Daredevil Thief kept appearing out of nowhere, killing me in less than 5 seconds, and disappearing. I watched him do it just as easily to others who wandered near his location. What build is this????

 

Sounds like the old school d/d gank build, and that's literally all it's good for.  A single quick burst, and then retreating.  Great against unsuspecting solo roamers, but once you know how they operate and what to look out for they're easy enough to counter.  They tend to avoid dealing with groups, because any competent group is too dangerous.  They're also the cause of an ocean of tears on the forums going all the way back to launch, due to bad players not know how to deal with them, not wanting to learn how to deal with them, and simply going to the forum to screech for nerfs.  They're ok in a roaming group, but not the best option.  They're too squishy to be anything other than a rallybot in larger groups, and are pretty much only good for killing yaks and squishy solo roamers who aren't paying attention to their surroundings.

[ASP.8093]

On 5/31/2021 at 11:09 AM, JekaPro.4391 said:

p/s currently optimizing stats on deadeye playing with HP/Precision/power/ferocity

Here's one variant I really like, ~17k hp / 100% crit chance version (~2.6k power, ~210% crit dmg): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAQxjDsL8AsOfVA-zVRYBR9IG+Sw2DgA/I/k2gqZE-w

Note the use of 4x Precision infusions to hit that 80% sweet spot (the rest are Power).

You can take Power/Ferocity food for more DPS (just eat the one the zergs put out) or Endurance-boost food for more dodges.

 

If you drop Signet of Agility or ~150 points of Precision from armor (not both), you can still have close to 100% crit chance under "favorable" conditions (Bloodlust, Guild Claim Aura, &c.) without "overcapping" so much. I personally prefer that 80% baseline before modifiers just because it makes your Malice management that much more predictable.

[Spiral.3724]

On 6/2/2021 at 11:12 AM, kash.9213 said:

Don't make things up to make statements, you gave no information on purpose. If you ever run into something like that in reality, then look at your combat log and watch what they're actually doing and using against other people for awhile. 

Sorry I didn't provide more info. I'm a long-time player but new to WvW and I didn't think to check my combat log. I will do that next time for sure. Great tip.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

look at Saerni's p/d deadeye condi hybrid build. saerni dedicated a lot of time in our guild runs with this build.

[Vavume.8065]

On 6/8/2021 at 8:02 PM, Phantom.8130 said:

 

Sounds like the old school d/d gank build

 

I miss it 😞

[Virdo.1540]

On 6/2/2021 at 6:41 PM, Spiral.3724 said:

I was roaming in WvW the other day, and a Daredevil Thief kept appearing out of nowhere, killing me in less than 5 seconds, and disappearing. I watched him do it just as easily to others who wandered near his location. What build is this????

this is not even undoable with other classes. I have the problem that the character model doesnt render in when a deadeye becomes visible. i see shots flying & the cirlce around my target (thief).   When the model renders in, its almost always in an invis-animation again.

might be even more provoked through extra shiny skins.

 

But as long as those exploits/bugs persist,  Power Rifle Deadeye is by far the best choice. (+ unkillable if done right, due to many classes just being too slow)

Edited August 7, 2021 by Virdo.1540

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

It depends on your playstyle. They are all very good. They also all have pros and cons.

I love my power rifle DE. I don't like relying on condis. However a condi thief can kill me if i don't stealth and run. But there are other builds that i can kill that a condi-thief has a harder time with.  This will always be the case. 

 

I used to love staff DD before it got nerfed into oblivion.

 

Something to note: unless you are playing against builds your build directly hard-counters or playing vs noobs, you should never win outnumbered fights.  When you see vids of it, its generally because the player is fighting much lower skilled opponents.  So don't get frustrated over that. I do get how having the ability to run from them is nice tho, and also why i like thief... but I've seen many mesmers do the same too.

Edited August 19, 2021 by SlitheSlivier.1908

[Malkarne.8167]

I don't really want to start a new topic but this kinda fits. For power rifle DE, how are you finding the new virtuoso spec? It almost feels like a hard counter to my DE. I've fought a few and it feels like they either have an invuln, evasion, or stealth on demand and more mobility to boot. And that spike damage is nutso... I had a few good long battles with them and it's hard to land kitten near anything on them. I know they have that low CD invuln on one of their F skills and I'm thinking that makes a huge difference filling in for the gap other mesmer specs (eventually) get in their defenses.

 

I've tried a few different things but I'm not really seeing how to get through them with a rifle. Just wondering if others had similar experiences or know how best to counter.

[ASP.8093]

47 minutes ago, Malkarne.8167 said:

I don't really want to start a new topic but this kinda fits. For power rifle DE, how are you finding the new virtuoso spec? It almost feels like a hard counter to my DE. I've fought a few and it feels like they either have an invuln, evasion, or stealth on demand and more mobility to boot. And that spike damage is nutso... I had a few good long battles with them and it's hard to land kitten near anything on them. I know they have that low CD invuln on one of their F skills and I'm thinking that makes a huge difference filling in for the gap other mesmer specs (eventually) get in their defenses.

 

I've tried a few different things but I'm not really seeing how to get through them with a rifle. Just wondering if others had similar experiences or know how best to counter.

I mean, this should probably just be its own topic.

 

But, uh, I'm finding them to be pretty easy meat, mostly? Both Mirage and Core Mesmer get most of their dueling strength from the ability to simultaneously access burst and perfect defense (using Mirage Mirrors and F4 Distortion) during clutch moments. Virtuoso is way more of a one-at-a-time kind of spec, their shatters have cast times and their only true Invuln is a channel similar to Guardian's Renewed Focus — their only real advantage over other Mesmer specs defensively is the ability to save Blink for running away instead of having to burn it to burst, imo. So, really, Virtuosos can hit hard from range and you have to respect that, but many of their attacks can be blocked with Sniper's Cover or Smoke Screen, and they're playing a glassy Power spec with less sustain and self-buffing ability than a typical Soulbeast.

[saerni.2584]

1 hour ago, Malkarne.8167 said:

I don't really want to start a new topic but this kinda fits. For power rifle DE, how are you finding the new virtuoso spec? It almost feels like a hard counter to my DE. I've fought a few and it feels like they either have an invuln, evasion, or stealth on demand and more mobility to boot. And that spike damage is nutso... I had a few good long battles with them and it's hard to land kitten near anything on them. I know they have that low CD invuln on one of their F skills and I'm thinking that makes a huge difference filling in for the gap other mesmer specs (eventually) get in their defenses.

 

I've tried a few different things but I'm not really seeing how to get through them with a rifle. Just wondering if others had similar experiences or know how best to counter.

Virtu isn't a hard counter to DE. It's projectile vs projectile.

 

If you're on rifle DE you have a projectile denial skill. Also, you should have an advantage in stealth + dps. 
 

I personally think Virtu is stronger than Harbinger, but it is doable as a Thief/DE.

[Malkarne.8167]

You both make excellent points. I think Asp's point about being able to save blink is what I was really noticed now that I think about it - the good ones I've fought have done exactly that. When I do wear them down it seems like they've got blink in their back pocket more than other specs so they're able to reset really easily to cycle through their (imo) formidable defenses. Yeah sniper's cover helps as long as they're pushing, I guess it's more securing the kill with them that I've found challenging.

[saerni.2584]

Try to maintain melee range with a ranged spec. It may seem counter intuitive but if they can't blink out of range as easily they will be easier to deal with. 
 

They don't have clones so they should be easier to focus on than a traditional style Mesmer. I agree with the advice about Smoke Screen. Good skill to block the projectiles.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

DareDevil Dual Staff works pretty well for zergs.

 

Mix set of Calv and Valks has worked well for me with this. You won't have precision, because you won't need it, you'll get it from other sources. And yes... toughness. Toughness is actually an inverted exponential graph. Light armor and Medium classes tends to get massive benefits from having toughness, where Heavy armor classes falls off quicker.

 

For example... using the Wiki's damage calculation. If you were to get hit for 3372 damage, having only 285 toughness would reduce that to 2972 damage instead. A 12 percent damage reduction, taking off 400 damage. Due to number of damage sources, I'd highly recommend leaving the toughness in. Keep in mind, according to the wiki that is from a warrior with an ascended axe wearing full zerks.

 

Runes of the daredevil for bonus toughness along with Critical Hit chance.

Vision Sigil for auto crits for three seconds after swapping weapons.

Endurance Sigil for regaining endurance on swapping weapons

 

DareDevil Traitline: Bounding Dodger, Staff mastery, Escpaist Fortitude.

Trickery(sigh... but at least you're taking it for more than just the steal and preparedness): Quick Pockets (swapping weapons gives back 3 ini), Caltrops, Trickster

 

Acrobatics: Vigorous Recovery (gives vigor for using a healing skill), Guarded Initiation for even more condi strip... cuz you're gonna get spammed. Assassin's reward or Don't Stop.

 

Mass spam your dodges, your Staff 5, autos, and Staff 3.

 

This build can run people down quite effectively, it just doesn't have the cliff hopping power of bow.

 

It can also 1v1 quite well in WvW as it has a huge mess of condi-cleanse and ways to get out of stuns. Any time you burn ini you heal... which thanks to a little bit of touness makes it worth a little bit. Especially since you're constantly dodging. Withdraw is on a 20sec timer.  And for the cream on top, kick some dust in their eyes to blind them if you catch them using an attack with a casting time like Ranger's Knockback.  And while thief will never outburst a full class face roll, you don't need to. You can avoid most of their kitten and laugh at their cooldowns with this meme build. Don't forget to give Anet's balance team the one finger salute for making us do things like this just to be relevant after taking massive nerfs to everything we have.

 

Primary strategy to this is to just grow a neckbeard and scream "LEROY JENKINS" dive headfirst and deep into a zerg once two zergs face off. Think to yourself that this will never work. THen wonder why are you still alive and actually killing people.

 

And I'll tell you why. Few people are paying attention to you. It's impossible to click on you in the mess of junk. Even if they tab onto you, most people don't know what you are actually doing. And most people in the backline are speced for support or ranged. Take a squad of five thieves and be very surprised how much havok this causes.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[Salvatore.3749]

On 8/21/2021 at 1:42 AM, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

Primary strategy to this is to just grow a neckbeard and scream "LEROY JENKINS" dive headfirst and deep into a zerg once two zergs face off. Think to yourself that this will never work. THen wonder why are you still alive and actually killing people.

 

And I'll tell you why. Few people are paying attention to you. It's impossible to click on you in the mess of junk. Even if they tab onto you, most people don't know what you are actually doing. And most people in the backline are speced for support or ranged. Take a squad of five thieves and be very surprised how much havok this causes.

 

I made a similar build years ago before I took my GW2 hiatus. I totally loved the hulk smash effect I had. I had the old altruism runes or something else before it was nerfed. All I remember is that I would gain a massive heal randomly mid fight and now that is gone. Instead of SB, I did have pistols and staff. I would start with bounding dodge, staff 5, and swap to unload for a massive heal. Then I would warp out. It worked well. 

 

For the OP, try using DD with D/P and Shortbow for roaming and focus on utilizing your combo fields. Take critical strikes and use either no quarter or hidden killer. You also want the usual trickery traits, and take the DD trait the boosts vitality, along with the physical impact, and dash traits. Use the DD elite skill for fast stomps. Shortbow and D/P all have nice stuns that when combined with Pulmonary impact, they deal nice damage to groups or single targets upon an interrupt, plus poison. 

 

Or use Power DE or Celestial DE in zergs and pick off melee targets with your rifle, Call targets for your zerg to be nice.  

[Nezekan.2671]

My best experience with roaming thief has been Deadeye with shadow arts and critical strikes and Valkyrie gear. You have low crit chance, but very high power and ferocity. However, your first attack from stealth and 2 seconds after are guaranteed crits, which benefit from your high power and ferocity. Retain damage of berserker but with 21k HP and lots of stealth.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

On 8/20/2021 at 6:04 PM, Malkarne.8167 said:

I don't really want to start a new topic but this kinda fits. For power rifle DE, how are you finding the new virtuoso spec? It almost feels like a hard counter to my DE. I've fought a few and it feels like they either have an invuln, evasion, or stealth on demand and more mobility to boot. And that spike damage is nutso... I had a few good long battles with them and it's hard to land kitten near anything on them. I know they have that low CD invuln on one of their F skills and I'm thinking that makes a huge difference filling in for the gap other mesmer specs (eventually) get in their defenses.

 

I've tried a few different things but I'm not really seeing how to get through them with a rifle. Just wondering if others had similar experiences or know how best to counter.

Nay, DE hard counters virtuoso In my Experience.  But i didn't play against any that were particularly good either.  Ill give you a clue to beating them: many (most?) of their hard-hitting abilities are projectiles.  I play against them the same as i play against LB rangers. The issue might be if they use a different weapon than the viruoso specific or switch often...could get interesting.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

On 8/23/2021 at 8:18 PM, Nezekan.2671 said:

My best experience with roaming thief has been Deadeye with shadow arts and critical strikes and Valkyrie gear. You have low crit chance, but very high power and ferocity. However, your first attack from stealth and 2 seconds after are guaranteed crits, which benefit from your high power and ferocity. Retain damage of berserker but with 21k HP and lots of stealth.

I love that build. I ran it for a long time.  The issue is that once you pay against really good players, esp LB/GS rangers or other classes to need to blind, you need some extra initiative for Sniper's Cover, making trickery better. 

CS will give you more damage, but Trick will give you more flexibility and help you dictate the fight. 

I may try CS again tho...i did love it.