The Bunker/Support Meta is Exhausting

[DanSH.6143]

I'm currently playing at Gold 2, ussualy each team consists of

- 2 Bunker/supports, like scourge, guardian, tempest.

- At least 1 bruiser, like prot holo, fire weaver.

 

So more than half of each team is ussualy very tanky. This causes team fights to take a very long time. The amount of rez power each team has is honestlu exhausting.

I'm not asking for nerfs, I'm not saying it's op, I'm saying it's not fun to play that way.

 

Bunker meta needs to go.

[Shrapnel.7249]

The support meta is definitely one conversation. But what’s bothers me more, that you mentioned, is the rez power built into traits and skills. This paired w the fast rez speed already, makes the most mind numbing gameplay. Like you said, it’s just unfun. I get to the point where I don’t even want to continue the prolonged 3v3 that’s happening on a node because I’m legitimately bored. 

[Crab Fear.1624]

Give wars hard cc damage back

 

...actually give all hard cc damage back.

 

The game pace is too slow.

 

I think some wombo combo stunlock knockouts are in order.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Crab Fear.1624

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Unfortunatly i dont see a solution to this problem. Anet solution was to remove amulets. And well we apparently have the same problem, maybe worse just becuase how strong scourge and condi damage has become in the wake of it. 

The solution is changeing skills around but after 8 years of anet going that every itteration seems to not help in the grand scheme of things.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Eddbopkins.2630

[DanSH.6143]

4 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Unfortunatly i dont see a solution to this problem. Anet solution was to remove amulets. And well we apparently have the same problem, maybe worse just becuase how strong scourge and condi damage has become in the wake of it. 

The solution is changeing skills around but after 8 years of anet going that every itteration seems to not help in the grand scheme of things.

They can buff dps amulets, like adding 200 Power to berzerker, marauder, demolisher. and so on for condi dps amulets too

[Abyssisis.3971]

It’s very annoying to see an enemy get revived quicker than you can actually down him… 

[Sunshine.5014]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. At Plat+ level, the majority of people play Glass Cannon, even Ele. The bunker meta is probably only at Gold and below. Maybe consider playing more glass if you want to rank up?

[Ivarian.9018]

13 hours ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

I'm not sure what you're talking about. At Plat+ level, the majority of people play Glass Cannon, even Ele. The bunker meta is probably only at Gold and below. Maybe consider playing more glass if you want to rank up?

100% true. Unless you play bunker yourself, you won't bring much to your team if you do not prioritize your DPS. This is a consequence of the 2020 February patch.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

 

15 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

I'm currently playing at Gold 2, ussualy each team consists of

- 2 Bunker/supports, like scourge, guardian, tempest.

- At least 1 bruiser, like prot holo, fire weaver.

 

So more than half of each team is ussualy very tanky. This causes team fights to take a very long time. The amount of rez power each team has is honestlu exhausting.

I'm not asking for nerfs, I'm not saying it's op, I'm saying it's not fun to play that way.

 

Bunker meta needs to go.

The core problem is with the 2020F patch they promoted condi builds like for PvE the recent one . They did this since HoT again and again which caused a hype which only lasted in each case only a few weeks each time until those patches where they done it with force came.  The reason is the concept of condi damge kitten hard and is broken in multiply ways. It is just not a good idea.

 

For sPvP alone the fact you can clear it away reduce the dmg significant you don't need to run bunker you just need to have enough condi clean and the dmg goes to (near)0

 

How this turned out? Well first we had builds with block skills aka bunker build. Scourge can go trough the blocks but as condi build when you have 2 of them on the opposite side you 2 classes with good condi clean or 1 Auramancer.

 

Yes you can switch to Reaper again but then you have to deal with blocks skills and possible condis from the other side.

 

Another way you can see the nonsense is how Purging Flames became the top dps skill for condi guard which is actually guards best condi clean skill.🙈🙉🙊

 

Basicly the community stayed away largely from condi builds because of this and like the others said the top tier builds are again power exactly because of this reason.

 

The other problem is you can only goes full dps when you can effort it many builds die to easily because their sutains vs dmg ratio is wrong.

[Shieldbash.5304]

Classes that can Shield, Reflect, Immune need tuning down! 

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Well to be precise if power Scourge would work we wouldn't discuss blocks and so on.

[Spellhunter.9675]

Usually boon removal and boon corrupt is the answers to heavy bunker meta. Maybe we need some form of barrier-hate in case of scourge

[Zaxares.5419]

As somebody who plays bunker types, I can say with certainty that all bunker builds have a weakness. You just need to know what it is and how to exploit it. For instance, Scourges (like all Necros) have pitiful amounts of Stability, making them very susceptible to chain CC coupled with focused bursts. Core Heal Support Guards, on the other hand, are vulnerable to heavy, sustained condi pressure as well as boon removal/corrupts. Now, if you solo queue a lot, sometimes you'll just have a team comp that is absolutely not suited to deal with the enemy bunker/support, and you just have to try and occupy/split them up as best you can. It may or may not work, depending on how smart the enemy team is about recognizing when you're just delaying/stalling them, but I've been in matches where we came from behind to win because we just sent 1 or 2 to occupy 3 of the enemy team at mid while the rest of us decapped and held the sides.

[Stalima.5490]

2 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Usually boon removal and boon corrupt is the answers to heavy bunker meta. Maybe we need some form of barrier-hate in case of scourge

yeah but now there's engineers who corrupt the corrupt back in to twice as many boons

[Crab Fear.1624]

2 hours ago, Zaxares.5419 said:

As somebody who plays bunker types, I can say with certainty that all bunker builds have a weakness. You just need to know what it is and how to exploit it. For instance, Scourges (like all Necros) have pitiful amounts of Stability, making them very susceptible to chain CC coupled with focused bursts. Core Heal Support Guards, on the other hand, are vulnerable to heavy, sustained condi pressure as well as boon removal/corrupts. Now, if you solo queue a lot, sometimes you'll just have a team comp that is absolutely not suited to deal with the enemy bunker/support, and you just have to try and occupy/split them up as best you can. It may or may not work, depending on how smart the enemy team is about recognizing when you're just delaying/stalling them, but I've been in matches where we came from behind to win because we just sent 1 or 2 to occupy 3 of the enemy team at mid while the rest of us decapped and held the sides.

 

Why do you play bunker?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Usually boon removal and boon corrupt is the answers to heavy bunker meta. Maybe we need some form of barrier-hate in case of scourge

Warrior got a great anti barrier trait when Tactics was reworked. The PvP forums QQ'd over it so now it tickles instead in PvP.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

All rez traits and utilities need to be gutted or removed.

 

[otto.5684]

If there is a meta now it is CC. And ya... bunker too. As someone who rarely play spvp anymore, whenever I do now I regret it. I tell myself spvp is fun. Once I play 1-2 games, I realize it is not “is” but “was.” We want from 50 dimensions, fast paced chess to CC spam checkers. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

12 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

If there is a meta now it is CC. And ya... bunker too. As someone who rarely play spvp anymore, whenever I do now I regret it. I tell myself spvp is fun. Once I play 1-2 games, I realize it is not “is” but “was.” We want from 50 dimensions, fast paced chess to CC spam checkers. 

The meta is rezzing. Stomping in teamfights is useless because they can just rez faster than the stomp. So you need to save all your cc dps for when someone is in downstate otherwise they are instantly back in the fight with 50% health. Every game is necro, guard, prot holo and nothing ever happens.

[otto.5684]

24 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The meta is rezzing. Stomping in teamfights is useless because they can just rez faster than the stomp. So you need to save all your cc dps for when someone is in downstate otherwise they are instantly back in the fight with 50% health. Every game is necro, guard, prot holo and nothing ever happens.

It is. You cannot really cleave, since nothing does any damage. No matter how much CC you have 2-3 rezzers can only be countered by cleave damage, which does not exist. And yes, in competitive high, high ranking games, you would see a lot of coordinated rezzing. But unless you only play AT, vast majority of the games you play won’t have that. And unless the game is on semi equal footing, which is hardly the case, you will be CCes so much. I wish there is a way to accurately track it, but in the last few games I played, I was getting CCed about twice every 10 secs in combat. Even if this is somewhat balanced (which it definitely is not) it is still garbage gameplay. 

[Zaxares.5419]

12 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

Why do you play bunker?

 

Mostly because of my ping. My average ping is around 250 and, due to me being a SEA player, it will never ever really get better than that unless ANet decides to make SEA servers (after 9 years, I think the odds of that are next to zero). Playing PvP with this kind of ping greatly hinders the kinds of builds you can run successfully. Playing melee, for instance, is usually an exercise in frustration because leap skills like Bull's Charge will shoot you PAST the enemy, or they'll shoot you at where the enemy was 1s ago. Oh, they'll still get knocked down, but now you're like 300 units past the enemy and your burst just winds up hitting air. You have to run back to the enemy first, and by that time they've already stunbreak'd or half the CC duration has passed and you've missed your opportunity.

 

This means that the only builds that actually work for me are either Condi attrition builds (which everybody seems to hate and keep calling for nerfs), Bunker/Decap or Bunker/Support builds (which everybody also seems to hate and keep calling for nerfs), or long range pew pew builds like Power LB Soulbeast or the old one-shot Gunflame Berserker builds, which have been slowly nerfed down into 2nd or 3rd-tier usefulness and most high-tier groups won't take seriously unless they're just doing a meme run for the hell of it.

[Virdo.1540]

Its time to stop nerfing "good" classes and start buffing the crap ones.