so what if barrier disappeared after 3 sec instead of 5

[Stand The Wall.6987]

would this be too big of a nerf, or not do anything? seems like barrier is overperforming in all game modes except maybe pve where tis meh. timing should always be important and i think barrier support should be more reaction based. i would think a few cds would need shaved and some barrier amount skills be buffed slightly. 

[razaelll.8324]

1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

would this be too big of a nerf, or not do anything? seems like barrier is overperforming in all game modes except maybe pve where tis meh. timing should always be important and i think barrier support should be more reaction based. i would think a few cds would need shaved and some barrier amount skills be buffed slightly. 

This would affect also other builds which use barrier as fire weaver, engi healbreaker and e.t.c, and they are fine in my opinion, so i think this change is not the right one since the problem is scourge specifically not barrier in general.

[Sunshine.5014]

2 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

would this be too big of a nerf, or not do anything? seems like barrier is overperforming in all game modes except maybe pve where tis meh. timing should always be important and i think barrier support should be more reaction based. i would think a few cds would need shaved and some barrier amount skills be buffed slightly. 

Just nerf Scourge directly. No need to drag Engi along with it.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Just add cast times or animations to scourge shade skills. All of them being instant cast means they can still provide aoe support and pressure while cc chained. Most of weaver barrier is consistently applied in small amounts through dodging and dual attacks which is pretty dumb too, but i dont think 3s or 5s would make a huge difference.

[Aktium.9506]

24 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Just add cast times or animations to scourge shade skills. All of them being instant cast means they can still provide aoe support and pressure while cc chained

They literally did way back yo

In this Feb 2018 patch

 

The little flare up that happens and and the 0.5 activation delay did not exist before that. They were completely instantaneous.

 

The change actually felt insanely bad at first because it felt like playing with permanent lag after having grown used to the original Shade skills.

[Aodlop.1907]

43 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Most of weaver barrier is consistently applied in small amounts through dodging and dual attacks which is pretty dumb too

Well, most specs have some form of benefits from dodging. For Weaver it's barrier, not a big deal. 

As for dual attacks, it requires you to use them, which is fine when you're Fire/Earth attuned, but most other dual attacks are kind of underwhelming.

Besides, it doesn't really absorb much, and it's more of a long term sustain thing rather than a massive shield that ruins your kill attempt.

I think it's fine.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 hours ago, Aktium.9506 said:

They literally did way back yo

In this Feb 2018 patch

 

The little flare up that happens and and the 0.5 activation delay did not exist before that. They were completely instantaneous.

 

The change actually felt insanely bad at first because it felt like playing with permanent lag after having grown used to the original Shade skills.

The delay doesnt stop them from using shade skills while cced though. Core necro and reaper are weak to cc chains, but scourge doesnt really care.

 

2 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

Well, most specs have some form of benefits from dodging. For Weaver it's barrier, not a big deal. 

As for dual attacks, it requires you to use them, which is fine when you're Fire/Earth attuned, but most other dual attacks are kind of underwhelming.

Besides, it doesn't really absorb much, and it's more of a long term sustain thing rather than a massive shield that ruins your kill attempt.

I think it's fine.

Weaver does need it to survive on fire & LR builds, but relying on strong passive sustain is kind of lame.

[Aodlop.1907]

11 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Weaver does need it to survive on fire & LR builds, but relying on strong passive sustain is kind of lame.

I'd argue it's not entirely passive. You still have to perform specific actions to trigger it, it's not like it pulsed every 5 seconds no matter what you do or don't do. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I mean, if you wanted to nerf weaver and scrapper then you could go with this.  Those two professions have barrier that gets added gradually, so the ability to sustain that barrier is paramount to their survival.  I myself use Stone Resonance pre-emptively, both to stop CC and because I need time to build the barrier up.  

[Disney.7826]

What if all barrier traits/skills in pvp were transformed into healing?

[razaelll.8324]

57 minutes ago, Filip.7463 said:

What if all barrier traits/skills in pvp were transformed into healing?

May i ask you why exactly all barrier skills/traits need to be changed? I mean what exactly is the problem with barrier?

Edited June 4, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Sigmoid.7082]

1 hour ago, Filip.7463 said:

What if all barrier traits/skills in pvp were transformed into healing?

Kind of defeats the entire purpose of the mechanic and the skills design.

 

Also there would be instances where this would be a buff to a few things. 

[Disney.7826]

5 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

May i ask you why exactly all barrier skills/traits need to be changed? I mean what exactly is the problem with barrier?

That u can have more hit points that game is designed to since u can have 100% hp + 50% barrier

[razaelll.8324]

13 minutes ago, Filip.7463 said:

That u can have more hit points that game is designed to since u can have 100% hp + 50% barrier

How is that a problem? This is temporary efect as invunurability for example 

[Shao.7236]

Outside of Scourge, there's not much. If they were to make the barrier pulsing rather than instant like everyone else on Scourge (Excluding Revenant who can only get as much if hitting 5 targets at the same time). That would alleviate a lot of the problems with it, not being limited to shroud utilities but having life force to tank like it's shroud is one of the most noticeable problem if not for how high the values are in an instant.

[felix.2386]

scourge has no trade off and removes necro's core weaknesses, no utility in shroud, global cooldown for shroud skill, no healing in shroud.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

scourge has no trade off and removes necro's core weaknesses, no utility in shroud, global cooldown for shroud skill, no healing in shroud.

scourge's tradeoff is that it doesn't have shroud...

[Khalisto.5780]

i think another condition affecting barrier duration or effectiveness is an interesting idea, like poison affects heals. But it won't happen cuz it'd need a rework, so just flat nerf scourge, the only barrier that is still problematic

[Swagg.9236]

So what if barrier had varied durations tied to respective skills?  Why is it a flat 5s?  Five seconds is an eternity in this game.  Maybe a 5s barrier packet might be appropriate for certain skills and scenarios, but making everything a blanket duration is the main reason why people (Necros) facerolling a keyboard always results in a protracted, 50% HP increase with zero effort.

[Swagg.9236]

16 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

scourge's tradeoff is that it doesn't have shroud...

Shroud is mainly just a base increase to the HP pool.  Every scourge build packs so much barrier that it is effectively the same by association (except that scourges don't have to drop their weapon/utilities whenever they spam their F buttons).